Do You Think That The Red Keep Is Haunted (In The Books Of Course), Like Harrenhal Is Said To Be? I Need

Do you think that the Red Keep is haunted (In the books of course), like Harrenhal is said to be? I need someone to discuss ASOIAF lore and concepts with but I don’t have anyone so I’m asking here 😩 I like to imagine that since the Targaryens who are a more magical family built and lived in it for 300 years, the castle would be more susceptible to be affected by all the atrocities and events that have gone on there. The dead all leaving behind an imprint, their spirits and memories haunting the place, echoes of memories from a time long past.

I can imagine some random servant jumping out of their skin as they pass the throne room, later swearing up and down that they saw a figure sitting impaled on the Iron throne, blood dripping down to the floor, but that it disappeared in the blink of an eye. Another one swears they saw a young woman with silver hair standing dangerously close on a windowsill, but that it was too far away to make out who. A woman wearing a dark gown and long black veil is seen lurking around the corners, but her back is always turned to the observer and she slinks away into thin air before anyone has the chance to catch up to her. A woman in a green dress, chains rattling about her wrists as she runs down the corridors. The distant laughter of a little girl running after her black cat. Pounding and clattering behind heard from the Maidenvault at night, despite it being empty at the time. A little girl with silver hair in a white nightgown walking around the halls, looking for her mother to tell her she’s cold. A woman with a long braid being seen amongst the mist of the training yard early in the mornings, when no one else is there, practicing her swordplay. People swearing they saw the fearsome shadow of a dragon flying overheard, even a hundred years after their deaths. If you look at them out of the corner of your eyes, you could catch the portraits of the former Targaryens following your every move, their gazes burning into you. A woman dressed in red and black, crown on her head, seen walking the corridors at night and leaving trails of blood behind her. Hues of green fire illuminating windows of empty rooms as seen from outside, distant yells echoing through the corridors, screaming to burn them all. Worst of all is the little girl in a ragged red dress, hair matted and tangled, body emaciated and eye sockets empty, unspeakable creates crawling all over her tattered body, seen peeking out from behind the corners.

I don’t think it’s actually haunted like this since there’s nothing in canon to support it, but I love the idea so much!

Anon I absolutely love this idea!! I'm a huge fan of horror and this just totally speaks to me! I have to admit, I kinda wish GRRM would go more into the gothic horror themes he has in some parts of the story. The Targaryens definitely have a lot of potential for some great horror stories. I would love to see like a fanfic that focuses on something like this.

I think the idea of Dany encountering spirits of her ancestors when she goes to Dragonstone would be awesome. Especially since she's already had visions of her family members (except Rhaella), so it'd be interesting to see her actually interact with them as she is now.

Jon also has some great potential for horror, especially after his resurrection. Like he could have a connection to the dead and be able to see ghosts or something. I feel like him being literally haunted by Ygritte and Jeor could have some great angst potential.

I could totally see the same thing happening with some of the other houses. I feel like the Starks are a pretty obvious answer, what with their connection to the Others and the Old Gods. Plus Bran is basically already living some gothic shit.

Arya though, I could definitely see her encountering ghosts in the Trident when she returns to Westeros. I think her connection to the Faceless Men could definitely lend some great horror themes, especially if combined with ghostly encounters.

One family that definitely has some major horror vibes is the Boltons. Like the family being haunted by the spirits of their skinned enemies. Guards in the dungeons hearing screaming from unoccupied cells; prisoners having surprise cellmates. The ghost of Roose Bolton hanging over Ramsay slowly driving him to insanity (well more than he already is).

Related to that, Theon also is someone who, like Bran, already has some major gothic horror themes. However, there's still so much more we could lean into. Like him literally being haunted by Robb, Balon, and his brothers. Maybe meeting the original Reek during his time as Ramsay's prisoner.

I think there's soo much potential for this idea anon! These are all just some surface ideas, but I would love to talk about this more lmao!

After GRRM's post decrying HOTD, I've seen a shit ton of people using it to defend the tired idea that Rhaenyra and the Blacks actually totally lost the Dance.

This idea is just so desperate and braindead. One especially memorable post I saw claimed that because House Targaryen was overthrown and is going to definitely be eradicated, the Greens actually won 🤓.

If House Targaryen for some reason ends up being wiped out in the books, that doesn't mean the Greens won. It means both sides lost and the Dance was completely pointless. The Greens lost the war, GRRM literally couldn't have made it more clear. Their bloodline has been eradicated, their allies either forced bend the knee to Rhaenyra's son or were killed. There's literally nothing that could happen at this point to make them somehow "win".

House Targaryen is GRRM's favorite house in ASOIAF. The dude is literally writing two history books about them. Not the Hightowers, the Starks, the Martells, the Daynes, or any other house of Westeros. I'm not saying those houses aren't important to the story (some more than others). But it's very clear who the favorite is.

As for the Dance, I've said it before, I'll say it again, Daenerys is Rhaenyra and the Blacks' ultimate victory, end of story. Some people in this fandom just have no brains jfc.

I hate those Daenerys is going to sacrifice herself/die theories so much it genuinely makes me tweak and I have never been the type of person to get upset at all over fiction or any type of media, but this irks me so bad because not only is Daenerys my absolute favorite character of all time, it’s upsetting how the female character is always the one who has to die for others sakes and never achieve anything for herself. Yes, it’s her destiny as AA to fight the Others, but that doesn’t mean that she has to die doing it. Like, seriously, after we got F&B and saw how many Targaryen women struggled with misogyny and being passed over for the throne, it feels upsetting to me if the one who is supposed to break the wheel will never have a chance to do so. I do love Bran but I do not see him fit to sit on the throne, not to mention how young he is and will be at the series end unless George does a massive timeskip, and after the whole world is in shambles after the Long Night, who is more fitting to sit on the throne and help mend things and lead the people forward? A well experienced ruler and fighter who will bring along a new age of change, or a child with no such experience? Perhaps it’s just me being salty but I just really want the best for my favorite character who I believe deserves to have her shot at having a home and being able to rule and change the world together with the other characters. Especially after the end of GoT, which no I don’t ever believe that George will go that route, but with how everything happened in the show, it looked like Westeros was a completely and utter mess and there was nobody capable left to pick up the pieces, Bran’s ascension to the throne was so random too and didn’t even feel satisfying or like a good conclusion (not that those two incapable idiots could ever produce a satisfying ending, but yeah). What are your thoughts on this? I just feel sad that fellow Dany fans are literally enthusiastically waiting for her death in the upcoming books as if there isn’t a better destiny for her :( The female character who managed to rise to power and become a ruler in her own right dying or giving that up to the men in order to “settle down” leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and doesn’t look like the subversion George has done with her character at all.

I definitely agree with you anon, Dany dying/sacrificing herself really doesn't seem to fit with her story. Yes, Dany certainly would be willing to die to save the world, but that doesn't seem to be where GRRM is writing her.

Dany's story is saturated with life; which is pretty ironic since she's been called "Daughter of Death". She's closely tied to themes of fertility (mother of dragons, helloo), rebirth (Azor Ahai, entering the pyre), and survival/endurance.

Dany's story shares very little similarities to characters who have been set up for death. For example, Robb. Dany may share some superficial similarities to Robb, but the signs of Robb's impending death are not shared at all. GRRM always sets up the deaths of his major characters from their introductions. That hasn't happened with Dany; if anything we see a set up to her surviving.

You're so right about how people are foaming at the mouth for Dany's death. Her dying after everything she's been through and everything she stands for is just...no. It feels so gross and has some really concerning undertones.

The woman who actually fought for change and made a massive upheaval in the status quo, who genuinely cares for all her people, who understands the responsibility of ruling, who demonstrates incredible wisdom, who only wants to make the world better dying for the sake of the story is just wow.

Yes, exactly!!!! GRRM literally couldn't have made Rhaenyra's impact more clear. Both before and during her time, women could act as heads of their houses. However, after the Dance, women have markedy less power. This decline was foreshadowed and clear, Rhaenyra antis are just blind.

if anyone tries to claim that rhaenyra rolling over and not fighting for her inheritance wouldn’t have had any effect on the women of the realm, then show them this:

Do you think Grrm hates Rhaenyra? I keep seeing this ever since he wrote that post.

See I don't think GRRM hates any of his characters, but especially not Rhaenyra. I can understand how people can interpret it that way to an extent, but it's very obvious he doesn't hate her.

In F&B, GRRM purposely writes it from the perspective of biased men, so of course Rhaenyra is portrayed badly. She's written by Munkin, Eustace, and Mushroom to be a negative example of women in power.

However, GRRM's MO has pretty much always been tackling medieval stereotypes and prejudices. Xenophobia, hatred of bastards, ableism, and sexism are all prevalent themes in ASOIAF. However, just because these themes are portrayed doesn't mean GRRM shares these views; in fact he uses ASOIAF to point out how destructive and wrong those ideas are.

Rhaenyra's story was written to show the destructive nature of the patriarchy. She as a character is meant to be morally gray and hated by historians. She's reflective of how history views ruling queens; she's demonized, wrongfully blamed, and disregarded.

The way readers are introduced to Rhaenyra is through people who hate her for being a woman who fought for her birthright. The way GRRM wrote his latest post about her is still from that perspective. People who claim he hates her are people who are unable to separate his actual views from those of his characters.

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