Frozen 3 & 4 - More Analyzing

Frozen 3 & 4 - more analyzing

So I was thinking that when Jen Lee made F2, she turned her focus to Elsa's magic and where it comes from and why she has it. This was the most obvious direction they could have gone in.

So what would be the most obvious direction for them to go in next?

I think the most obvious direction would be exploration of Anna and Elsa as the fifth spirit, further exploration of Ahtohollan, and their mission as the bridge between the Northuldra and Arendelle, and healing the rift therein.

So I think at least F3 will be lore-heavy (though they gotta keep the story character-centric because that is what makes it SO GOOD).

List five things that make you happy, then IF YOU WANT TO, put this in the inbox of the last people who reblogged something from you, get to know your mutuals and your followers

@koretoqueen also asked me this :)

1. Disney

2. My family

3. Reading

4. Frozen (yes I put it separate from Disney because it’s that important)

5. Writing

Thanks for the ask! Sorry it took me so long to respond, it was my first week of college last week and it was very busy and stressful!

Wish Analysis Pt. 1/3

I just saw Wish and 😍😍✨🤩!!!!!! I love it SO MUCH!!!! I have a rule for myself: watch first, analyze later, so I only really have surface level analysis right now, but I figured I’d write and post it anyway! Sorry this is gonna be super long, I typed a whole essay! Obviously spoilers ahead:

First of all, let me just say that I was absolutely dazzled! The animation, the songs, the story, AHHH so good! And STAR 🤩🤩!! YES! The songs felt very Disney, but in a new way that I absolutely loved. I was crying, stifling screams (because movie theater), and I nearly fell off my chair a few times. I’m legit thinking about going to see it again tomorrow.

Ok, enough of me just fangirling haha. There were so many references to other Disney movies in Wish. I know I missed some while watching and I’ve forgotten some since then, but I’ll try to summarize what I saw. Beginning with a storybook was a beautiful choice as a nod to old Disney movies. So many Snow White references, it was insane. Dahlia and the other kitchen workers were the seven dwarves, the wishing well (that was also a hidden Mickey), Magnifico’s whole hidden lair (especially the poison apple and listing ingredients). There was a bear named John (Little John from Robin Hood), a bunny did Thumper’s foot tapping thing, a deer named Bambi, the mushrooms and flowers dancing could be Alice in Wonderland all in the You’re a Star sequence. There were lanterns and the boats as a reference to Tangled. The vines of magic across the castle at the end looked very much like Maleficent’s magic. The swirling clouds above the castle looked like Night on Bald Mountain. When Magnifico got trapped in the staff at the end was very Jafar in the lamp. At one moment in the forest Magnifico directly mirrored a shot of the Headless Horsemen from The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad. Asha riding on a deer surrounded by other deer could have been a reference to Lost in the Woods. And all the wishes briefly mentioned/shown were references to other Disney movies; one directly used footage from Peter Pan (and then showed Peter and Wendy in the very end), a wish for true love could be any number of movies, the wish to sail a ship could be Peter Pan, but I think was probably Moana, the wish for a perfect nanny for their children must have been Mary Poppins (which is slightly odd, since every other reference I caught was to an animated movie, but whatever), and the one to climb a mountain was about Strange World. I know I’ve missed dozens of references, but that’s all I can think of right now!

The Saga of Aren

I absolutely love Arendelle History, so when I read Forest of Shadows and learned about the Saga of Aren, I was so excited. The only thing that disappointed me was that we didn’t get the entire thing. So, being the obsessive overachiever that I am, I wrote my own idea of the rest of it. I worked super hard on this for like a month and a half, and I am so proud of how it turned out! I had never really written any poetry before, but I had more fun with it than I expected, and have even written a little more since (not Frozen related, sorry). I might post an in depth analysis later, but for now I’ll just say that I wrote this to be intentionally vague, and to represent Anna and Elsa’s story as well as Aren’s.

The parts in italics and quotes are from FoS, so were written by Kamila Benko. I wrote the rest. (With a few exceptions that are quotes from something else, noted at the end)

The Saga of Aren

By: Kamila Benko & SecretsOfTheStoryMakers

“A long time ago in a time before time, a great darkness swept over the land”

A dark fright came, the people fought, but could not make their stand

They fled their shores and took to the seas, their homeland all but lost

To Dark and Cold and Past and Fear, the silence and the frost

As ages passed and people still were trapped upon their ships

The storm roared on, there was no end to the sun’s total eclipse

They begged the earth, the wind, the flame, the oceans heard their cries

And from their unknown, watery depths a spirit did arise

The water spirit too, had felt the chill of endless night

It told the people, for a price, it could help bring back the light

The people were so fearful, urgently they did agree

In return they promised someday that the spirits would be free

As the earth’s ancient spirits have foretold, there will come a fearful age

All that live upon the earth will be trapped within dark’s cage

The sky will be shadow, fade away, as the spirits lose their song

The world needs a leader and protector, someone to right this wrong

To scale fear’s greatest precipice, as the mountain’s facade comes crashing

To face the fear with light’s greatest strength, upon past and present’s clashing

It comes on the world’s great eve of change, as the north wind’s song is turning

Beware what you may think you know, for “the past has a way of returning.*”

The mythic Nokk came to the end of the spirits’ prophecy

It bowed its head and flashed its eyes, returning to the sea

The people knew it spoke the truth, the world would be free again

They only needed a bridge, a bond, to let the light back in

They needed someone fearless, with love enough to light the dark

Only one of their number was brave enough to bear the spirits’ mark

“Young as the morning, as fierce as a twig, Aren stepped out onto the land”

He’d made his choice, to protect his people, against the dark he’d stand

And so Aren set off, alone as the sun, armed only with his love

His plan was simple; persuade the moon to make peace with the sun above

Night’s dark creatures of memories corrupted, tried to stop him on his quest

But Aren persevered, held on to love, despite fear’s every test

He scaled the greatest, northern mountain, and when he reached the top,

He called to the moon, showed her their pain, told her this night needed to stop

The moon felt remorseful, her tears fell to earth as she realized what she’d done

She crossed the sky, returning home, to find her sister sun

The moon and sun were reunited, together at long last

The sisters agreed they’d rule together, “the past was in the past**”

Their strengths combined would bring peace to the world, as the spirits had foretold

With a “yellow diamond, bright as an eye”, they made Aren a blade of gold

“Revolving moon and spinning sun forged a crescent blade

From light and dark within the heart, the burnished sword was made.

He raised it high above his head and smote the edge of land”

The curve of his blade struck the earth and carved the kingdom’s span

As he cracked the ancient, unbroken rock, Revolute began to glow

The earth’s core tremored, shaking, shifting, disrupting the water’s flow

“The sea rushed in as hidden power flowed from the gleaming sword

And shaped the rock and forest crown of the first majestic fjord!”

The people rejoiced as they came to the land and deemed it “Arendelle”

At last they’d returned, to summer’s embrace, where they’d forever dwell

“As revolving moon and spinning sun, once forged a crescent blade,***”

Forever may true love endure, “may the flags of Arendelle ever wave”

*This is a quote, but it is not stated to be in the Saga. It is the tagline of Forest of Shadows.

**This is a quote from Frozen (Let it Go to be specific), but it is not stated to be in the Saga.

***I slightly adjusted this line from what is said in the book. The direct quote is: “Revolving moon and spinning sun, forged a crescent blade.” Normally, I wouldn’t adjust the line that was directly stated, but this was only said once, by Anna, who also said “something something something something” for the first part of the next line. I’m just assuming that maybe she made a mistake with the first part she said too, since the line that she actually said is definitely in the Saga elsewhere.

A (brief) analysis on Generational Curses in Frozen

...through Agnarr and Iduna.

Spoilers for Dangerous Secrets

A lot of people say that Agnarr and Iduna were terrible parents. I am of the mind they weren't terrible people, but they were completely unequipped to handle the situation with their daughter and the people they thought would be able to help were only of limited help.

forever angry that Grand Pabbie didn't say Love will be your ally instead of Fear will be your enemy

However, I want you to consider where Agnarr came from for a moment. He was the child of an absent mother and an abusive father. A father who hated magic and was "killed" by it at the same time. Agnarr witnessed it all and furthermore grew up in a very anti-magic Arendelle while he was being trained to be king.

And yet, he had a daughter who had magic. Beautiful, cold, unlimited magic. Not only did he love her, but he allowed she and her sister to play with the magic freely when no one else could witness it. The only time he buckled down and responded in fear was when Anna got hurt.

And even then, he only separated Elsa from Anna until they could figure out how to control it. He didn't treat Elsa like a monster. He was kind and calm and passed on the best coping mechanism he had (that was toxic mess, admittedly). The problem is, years went by. He was king as well as the father of Elsa. He had so much on his shoulders, but even still, when his wife confessed her truth and told him straight-up that they had to do this right and tell the truth, he listened. He even agreed to take a journey into a killer sea (which is canon even without Dangerous Secrets) - knowing that he might be leaving his daughters behind forever - to help his daughter.

There are some parents who aren't even brave to defend their child against an emotionally abusive relative.

Agnarr wasn't perfect... but in some ways he broke the generational curses that his father passed onto him.

As for Iduna?

Iduna didn't have an generational curses until after she was separated from her home and forced to endure a lifetime in a culture that hated who she really was and where she came from. The generational curse comes in because the secret of Elsa's magic was ingrained in Iduna's darkest secret. She didn't want her daughters to be rejected. She didn't want Elsa to be feared for another reason.

"But if she had been honest, Elsa would have been saved earlier on!"

You ever... been in a world like that? In a life like that? Are you neurodiverse? Queer? Trans? Refugee? POC? Indigenous? Female? Have you ever been in a situation where you had to hide your authentic self/thoughts/beliefs/feelings/words because to embrace your authenticity might lead to rejection, harm, or even getting killed?

Iduna faced that every damn day of her life.

Worse, she married the man who ruled the very kingdom that hated her. Thankfully, he did not. Agnarr was surprisingly forward-thinking.

But the hate of Arendelle is what brainwashed Iduna into believing that whether her Northuldra origins are good or not... it is better to keep it hidden for her daughters' safety. For them to know the truth would only make everything so much worse, right?

Unfortunately, Iduna probably knew from the very beginning that the Northuldra, Enchanted Forest, the Spirits, and Ahtohallan are the key to all of this. That would mean she would have to tell Agnarr. The love of her life. The man that she was told would turn on her if she ever said the truth. She could get run out of the kingdom along with her daughters. And on top of all of that, they would lose their father. She would lose... be rejected by... the love of her life.

That kind of pressure and pain can paralyze you and your children and your children's children... but Iduna finally said something because the pain of her daughter was worse than the pain of everything else that could happen. Iduna pushed through all the fear and told Agnarr the truth. And she too volunteered to sail into a killer sea to help her daughter, knowing she might not return.

Some parents don't even want to go to their kids' talent show.

If you wanna blame anyone, blame Arendelle and more specifically, Runeard. Agnarr knew his father was a monster in the end, so bad that he drove Rita out. Agnarr wasn't perfect for the situation with Elsa, but he did loads better than his ancestors. And Iduna - that fearless, free Northuldra girl - told her husband the truth knowing it might get her killed. It is so much more complicated than "they were shitty parents."

Did they fuck up? Absolutely. Is Dangerous Secrets considered canon by Jen Lee? No.

But the fact that Agnarr and Iduna went into that sea is!

Ahtohollan can see the future

Nobody seems to talk about this:

"...A sharp pain of regret stabs at my stomach.

I never did get back home.

I stare down at the water, my vision blurry from the driving rain. To my surprise, a wavering image seems to float up from the depths of the sea.

A girl, laughing, and dancing in the wind.

Is it me? But no... it looks more like...

I turn and ask Agnarr, "Are you seeing this?" But he's gone off to confer with the captain.

I turn back to the water, desperate for another look. But the girl is now gone, too. In her place stand two women. One dressed in a glowing white gown with white-blond hair tumbling down her back. The other - a redhead - clothed in rich greens and black and purples, with a familiar-looking crown atop her head. Both women are smiling.

Smiling at each other.

My breath hitches. Tears well in my eyes. Could it be? Could these two beautiful women really be my daughters? Not as they are now... but as they will be?

Only Ahtohollan knows... a voice seems to whisper in my ear.

The waters churn again and the vision vanishes. I cry out in alarm, causing Agnarr to rush to my side. "What is it?" he asks urgently.

I shake my head. "Nothing," I say. "I just... I thought I saw something in the water."

Was it a vision from Ahtohollan? Or simply a mother's heartfelt wish on a wave? I will never know for certain. But still, I draw that image of my beautiful girls deep into my soul. Their wide smiles. The joyous looks in their eyes. It seems an impossible future.

And yet...

Why couldn't it be? They are strong; they are smart. They will be able to shape their own destinies. Make their ways as Agnarr and I once did. Find their owns happily ever afters.

I just hope they find them together."

-Queen Iduna, Dangerous Secrets

Now this isn't strictly canon because Jen Lee doesn't really consider anything outside of the main 2 movies canon. But I am going to talk about it like it is because the idea that Ahtohollan can see into the future could lean into my whole "Ahtohollan is a way across the veil" theory.

Now, Iduna's vision could be two things:

A visualization from the spirit of Ahtohollan

A true vision of the future

It obviously was not Iduna's wishes as a mother because the description of the girls matched what they looked like at the end of F2 down to the detail. So, I think we can nix that theory.

But what I will say is that it was Iduna's fear the they wouldn't make it, that she would never see her daughters again, and her regret over not seeing her home again that triggered this beautiful blessing for Iduna before she passed on. Ahtohollan showed her this on purpose. No matter which theory below is correct, Iduna was effectively shown the future.

In defense of A Visualization from the Spirit of Ahtohollan

Anna and Elsa were created to be the fifth spirit. They were created to break the dam, reconnect with Ahtohollan, liberate the forest from the mist, bring the spirits back, bring peace between the Northuldra and Arendelle, and carry on their work as the Fifth Spirit, the bridge. They were tied to Ahtohollon, through blood and spirit, from the beginning. They were always going to find their way to the Enchanted Forest because they were created for it. They would always be drawn back. Nothing in life is a certainty... but for once, this was. And Ahtohollan showed that to their mother.

In defense of A True Vision of the Future

Water has memory. Ahtohollan has access to All Memory. But what if, considering the magical nature of Ahtohollan, it's definition of "memory" is different from ours? Take a look at the way the memories work in the glacier, for example. It seems like the more forgotten a memory is, the deeper it is within the glacier. And yet, somehow, the memory is still there! Even though no one remembers the memory!

In magic, water is the connective element. In tarot, water represent relationships, love, emotions, and our inner worlds. In astrology, the water signs are intuitive, emotional, and compassionate. In Frozen, it has memory - a force that connects all of us. And what else is connective?

Time.

From the past to the future. And some say Time is a construct, but many physicists argue against this concept. In physics, it is the fourth dimension. It is a provable dimension of creation.

What if Elsa has yet to actually tap into her full power, as a spirit who can solidify the most (arguably) spiritual element?

What if Ahtohollan showed Iduna the future of her daughters?

Conclusion

Look, you all know I hate the whole thing in fiction that you have a shadow of what you actually want and somehow that is supposed to be comfort. Like in Harry Potter, with him holding the memory of his parents in his heart as comfort. Or the fact that Harry saw them in the 4th book with priori incantatem only for Dumbledore to promptly crush Harry's dreams because "the dead can't really come back" (no they can't but they were there).

I personally think that whole concept is a bit of a copout. I think Iduna was truly calling Elsa from the other side to bring her to Ahtohollan. I think Iduna truly saw a glimpse of the future of her daughters.

But either way, the whole point of that vision wasn't what it truly was. The whole point was to show Iduna what she needed to know: Your daughters are going to be okay.