Like Father

Like Father

Like Daughter

It's quite curious and funny that Star accidentally achieved in a matter of minutes what Belos wanted to do, having planned it for more than 400 years.

We all know that the movie Wish had potential but it is very poorly written so I think the movie would have turned out better if they had made any of these options:

1) Better implement the problem of desires and their consequences. For example, the anime Madoka Magica explores the theme of wishes, how your wish can be granted in the worst possible way, the consequences of this way of obtaining your wish and how people realize that what they wished for was not what they really wanted and how they have to deal with it. It would have been interesting to see this in the movie and how the characters handle it.

2) Asha was a potential Miyo Takano so the movie could take advantage of this to make Asha a villainous protagonist and see her rise from antagonist to full villain becoming obsessed with making her grandfather's wish come true to the point of becoming more amoral until she is a total villain. It would have been interesting if Asha has Miyo Takano's story and personality.

3) Making Asha reflect and realize that Magnifico turned to dark magic out of desperation to stop her because he got carried away by his paranoia that someone would want to harm his kingdom which makes Asha understand Magnifico's motivations, try to save him from his corruption and make him stop his paranoia.

4) Make Magnifico always carry his book of dark magic with him. That way it would be shown how Magnifico gradually became corrupted due to the dark magic of the book and the longer he was around the book the more he became corrupted, that way Magnifico's descent into villainy would be more believable.

5) Another way to make Magnifico's villainy believable is to show more directly that he believes that people only value him for his ability to grant wishes so seeing that many wishes that the inhabitants of Rosas ask him to grant are wishes that they can fulfill themselves without his help but they decide to leave everything in the hands of Magnifico out of laziness, he ends up exploiting and getting angry because he feels exploited by his own people. In this way, Magnifico would have quite justified reasons to be angry, and therefore, all the inhabitants of Rosas would have to recognize that some wishes could be achieved by themselves as well as recognize their exploitation of Magnifico and save him from his corruption or make Magnifico repents and stops when he sees that his subjects have changed for the better and seeks to help them in a healthier way, such as giving them advice so that they can fulfill their own desires.

6) Give Magnifico the personality of Big Mom. Big Mom is a rather violent and ruthless pirate empress who has a country called Tottoland where anyone can enter but she forces them to give parts of their soul to her to keep the ecosystem of Tottoland running. She created Tottolando to make her dream come true and that is to make a country where people of different races live together in harmony and are the same size as her, but everyone in Tottoland is scared of her, including her own children. Simply Magnifico would have been a more convincing villain if he had the same violent and unstable personality as Big Mom, if his subjects were afraid of him as Big Mom's are and if he forced his subjects to give them their wishes as Big Mom does with their souls of her subjects instead of waiting for them to be given to Magnifico and willingly.

7) I feel like Asha would have shined more as a protagonist if she were like Miles Morales in the sense that Miles has a more convincing evolution than Asha. Miles Morales is motivated to be Spiderman because he feels guilty for the death of Peter Parker in his universe, but his parents remind him not to forget who he is beyond his work as Spiderman and he ended up accidentally creating Spot and ruining a canonical event without knowing it. What makes Miles decide to try to save both his father and the multiverse because Spiderman always tries to save all and why Miles believes it is his responsibility to stop Spot for creating and angering him. It would be interesting if Asha had conflicts (about feeling guilty that her grandfather did not get his wish and that Magnifico turned bad, although that is not entirely true, and that because Asha feels that she should be the one to make her grandfather's wish come true and of being the one who stops Magnifico) and overcame them and watched her mature like happened with Miles.

AFO in bnha chapter 419:

I think the problem Chloe has is the same problem Magnifico from Wish had: the writers didn't know what to do with these characters so they didn't give them a consistent arc to the point of not knowing if they were going to be bad or have a redemption.

There was no Redemption or Damnation. Chloe Doesn't Actually Have an Arc at All

Does Chloe have an abandoned redemption arc?

No. Absolutely not. She also doesn't have a “damnation” arc or really any arc at all. She is a font of wasted potential for both redemption and damnation who never gets a true chance at either path. To explain what I mean, I have to first discuss the two types of redemption arcs and also how damnation arcs work. I’ll be doing this by discussing the guy who started the redemption arc trend, Zuko, and why his story doesn’t work for people like Chloe.

The Two Types of Redemption + Some Bonus Damnation

There are two general paths to redemption: redemption through a change in worldview (the easy path) and redemption through a change in self (the hard path).

Redemption through a change in worldview is what happens when you take a character who is a fundamentally good person and give them a messed up worldview, usually through their upbringing. The story will see that worldview challenged, resulting in the character changing how they view the world, but that’s about it. They don’t really have to make major changes to themselves at a fundamental level.

This is Zuko’s path. He’s born in the Fire Nation and raised to think that the Fire Nation is good. He also has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. When he’s included in a war council and told that the army leaders are going to willingly sacrifice Fire Nation troops, he stands up and says that’s wrong. This act results in him getting banished. During his banishment, he gets to see the rest of the world and learn that the Fire Nation is, in fact, NOT good. This ultimately leads to him switching sides because he has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. Who he is and how he acts never really changes.

Chloe is not like Zuko. She is a selfish, egotistical, petty, spoiled brat. For her to be redeemed, she has to accept that fundamental aspects of her character are deeply flawed. This might involve some changes to her worldview, but that’s only a tiny piece of what needs to change and I’m honestly not sure that she really has a messed up worldview. There are multiple instances where it’s clear that she knows that she’s being mean or bad and just doesn’t care.

This brings us to the topic of damnation arcs. For something to be a damnation arc, a person has to be presented with a choice between good and evil and they have to choose evil. Zuko actually has one of these. At the end of the second season of Avatar, Zuko is given the choice to join the good guys or to join his sister and be accepted back into his family.

He chooses his sister.

That’s a damnation arc because Zuko truly had a chance to change sides. The scene would play very differently if Zuko had to choose between staying in exile and joining his sister. Joining his sister would still be the wrong move, but it’s no longer damnation. It’s just doing a bad thing vs doing nothing (though it can be argued to be somewhat damning since Zuko is going against his own morals). Along similar lines, Zuko is redeemed when he chooses to abandon his family to do what’s right even though it costs him everything he wanted: his family, his girlfriend, and his home.

This is where Chloe’s “damnation” and redemption arcs fall apart. There is no point in the series where she’s actively given a choice between good and evil. She only ever makes choices between inaction and evil or inaction and good. Does that make her a good person? Hell no! But it does make the argument that she had an arc fall very flat. She never gets better, but it's hard to say that she gets worse.

Chloe’s Choices: The Good and The Bad

Chloe becomes Queen Bee without anyone saying she was fit for the role. She just finds a miraculous and uses it. The way she uses it is selfish, egotistical, and petty. In other words, it’s just Chloe being Chloe. While the actions she takes are horrible and definitely deserve punishment, they’re in character. She’s not acting worse than normal, she’s just being herself, but with superpowers. If she’d been given the miraculous and been charged to be a hero, then her actions would be damning because she would be choosing to go against her charge. But she’s not. She has no charge.

To really assess if Chloe has potential to change, you have to look at what she does when she’s given the choice to be good and this is where things get messy.

This is how Chloe’s first encounter with her miraculous ends:

Ladybug: I have to get the Miraculous back, Chloé. (in the background, Nadja's van arrives) Chloé: Give me a second chance, please! Nadja: (holding a tablet with Audrey on it) Audrey Bourgeois, tell us live how you feel about what just happened. Audrey: (on the tablet) According to me, Chloé just clearly demonstrated that there is nothing exceptional about her. Cat Noir: (puts a hand on Chloé's shoulder) I know that you did the things you did to impress your mother. Ladybug: Anyone can make mistakes, even a superhero. What matters is how you fix them. I personally made one by losing that Miraculous. Don't make the mistake of not giving it back. Act like a hero. Cat Noir: And show everyone how exceptional you can be. (Chloé hands Ladybug the Miraculous) Ladybug: Thank you. Chloé: (the duo are about to run off) Ladybug? Cat Noir? (the cameraman moves closer) I'm sorry.

Chloe doesn't fight to keep her miraculous. A few quick lines are all it takes for her to hand it over. When Ladybug gives Chloe the chance to act like a hero would, Chloe acts like a hero. The same can be said of every subsequent time when Ladybug gives Chloe the bee miraculous. Every time Chloe is called upon to be Queen Bee, she does the job to the best of her abilities and acts as a functional member of the team. She's not incompetent. She doesn't put the team in danger so that she can be in the spotlight. Heck, the very next time she gets it, Chloe willingly admits that her father’s akumatization was her fault.

Chloé: It— it was me. I hurt my daddy's feelings. Because I want to leave Paris, forever. Ladybug: Because of what happened in school? I'm sure Marinette probably didn't exactly mean what she said. Chloé: Oh, it's not just her— actually, I don't even care about her— it's because I have no reason to be here: nobody likes me; I have no friends. I'm… useless. Ladybug: (remembering what Adrien told Marinette earlier at school about Chloé) A friend once told me: nobody is useless, Chloé. Chloé: It's easy for you to say that. You're Ladybug, a superhero. You serve a purpose. Ladybug: Yes, I can fix up all the messes. You said it yourself in your documentary. Chloé: (gasps) You saw it?! Ladybug: (nods) Mm-hmm. Chloé: Oh! I'm so embarrassed. That film's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I realize that now. Ladybug: Don't worry Chloé. You can fix your own messes, if that's what you want. You, too, can serve a purpose, but you have to want to. Chloé: (sniffles) I do want to.

When Ladybug asks Chloe to be a better person, Chloe is a better person.

This is why I say that Chloe has a perfectly functional view of the world. She knows when she’s doing something wrong and is able to do good when challenged to do so. Even on the civilian side, we see that Chloe is willing to be a little better when given the proper motivation. In Despair Bear, Adrien says he’ll end their friendship and so Chloe actively tries to save that friendship even if she hates every minute of it. Similarly, in Zombiezoo, Chloe sacrifices herself so that Ladybug can win.

Now, none of this is a redemption. It is, at best, the foundation for a redemption. We see that Chloe has the potential to be good when challenged to do so by the right person or circumstance, but she’s not trying to be better outside of those moments when she’s challenged. For her redemption to really start, she has to choose good over evil. She has to start improving when Ladybug isn’t watching or when Adrien isn’t threatening their friendship. For it to be a damnation, she has to choose evil over good.

She is never truly given that choice.

The two big scenes where Chloe gets “worse” are at the end of Queen Wasp and at the end of Hearthunter. However, in both of those scenes, no one gives her a choice to be better even though she’s primed and ready to make that choice.

Queen Wasp: When the Civilian Moment Should Have Happened

At the tail end of Queen Wasp, Marinette has the choice to go to New York with Audrey or stay in Paris. She chooses Paris, but brings Chloe with her to try and repair the relationship between mother and daughter. Here, Marinette gets to really see just how little Audrey cares for Chloe.

In a show where Chloe has a character arc, this should be the moment when she’s given a choice. She’s just spent the whole episode trying to get her mom to love her and it’s gone nowhere. Marinette, our hero, is standing right there, fully capable of saying, “You know what Chloe, your mom sucks and you don't need her validation. I know some people who already think that you're awesome. Come on, let’s get you back home and I’ll call Adrien and Sabrina to meet us there.”

Instead, this is what happens:

Marinette: I think you're wrong. A huge part of your life is here in Paris, too! (she steps aside, showing Chloé and Butler Jean) Audrey: Chlorene? Uh— Chloé? Chloé: (looks at her mother, then at Marinette in a guilty manner, then back at her mom) Why don't you love me, Mom? Audrey: But… Uh— Of course I l-l-love you. Marinette: (groans) You're also wrong about your daughter not being exceptional. In fact, Chloé is exceptionally mean. She's the worst person I've ever met. She may be more heinous, pompous and selfish than you. Compared to both of you, even a rock seems more capable of love. (Audrey and Chloé are furious with Marinette for telling mean things to them.) Chloé and Audrey: (shouting) How dare you⁈ (gasp and look surprised at each other) Marinette: See? You're both much more alike than you think. (walks off; humming)

…our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen.

I’m not saying that Chloe’s poor behavior is Marinette’s fault. Chloe’s choices are her own, but it’s hard to say, “why didn’t she change?” when even Ladybug doesn’t seem to want her to. If no one is actively encouraging Chloe whenever she does better, then it's 1000x harder for her to get better. Fake it til you make it is a huge part of self improvement. Being a better person for validation or selfish reasons often leads to meaningful change and is a legitimate way to start a self-driven redemption arc. (Go watch The Good Place if you want a prime example of this.)

Hearthunter: When the Hero Moment Should Have Happened

Hearthunter and Miracle Queen are supposedly the end of Chloe’s “damnation” arc. The moment where she makes the wrong choice and, to be clear, Chloe does the wrong thing here. Helping Hawkmoth is a bad move and she deserved to face some consequences. However, the choice to help Hawkmoth has the weirdest setup for a “damnation” arc that I’ve ever seen.

In Miraculer, we get this line from Gabriel: all I need is for [Chloe] to lose all hope in Ladybug. To become angry enough so I can akumatize her.

This is also the episode where Chloe rejects an akuma (Chloé: No, Hawk Moth! I am a superheroine! I am Queen Bee! Ladybug will come and get me when she needs me! I WILL NEVER JOIN YOU!), the episode where Lila helps manipulate Chloe into doubting Ladybug, and the episode where Ladybug tell’s Chloe that she’ll never be Queen Bee again, setting up the tension for the season final.

However, even though that tension is set, the thing that turns Chloe to the dark side is… her parents being akumatized. Not some random akuma that Chloe wants to help with. Not Hawkmoth just randomly showing up with the bee. No, we have both of Chloe's parents as the victim of the day and Ladybug actively chooses Ryuuko over Queen Bee, making Chloe the first and only hero who doesn’t get called in when a loved one is in trouble.

All of that leads to this:

Hawk Moth: Chloé Bourgeois, rejections hurt! (Chloé turns to face him) Your talents deserve to be recognized! Ladybug and Cat Noir's reign has gone on long enough. It's time for Paris to have a new queen, and the Queen Bee on my chessboard is you. Chloé: You've akumatized my parents! If I had my Miraculous I'd- Hawk Moth: (puts up his hand and interrupts) You're right, but I did it for one reason only. So that you would finally realize that Ladybug will never give you the Bee Miraculous again. I, however, always keep my promises. (shows her the Bee Miraculous in his hand) Chloé: This isn't real! How do you have it? Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her, and what has she done for you in return? Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to deakumatize has my parents first!

Just like with Queen Wasp, Chloe does the wrong thing. She didn’t have to take the bee. She didn't have to stay selfish, egotistical, and petty. But at the same time, this isn’t really a damning act. It's an act that makes her unsuitable to be Queen Bee again, but she wasn't going to be Queen Bee anyway. She wasn't choosing to be a villain over a hero. She was just choosing to be selfish at a time when she's been actively manipulated and when her parents are in danger.

In other words, this is just Chloe being Chloe. She’s acting the same way she did when she first got her miraculous. If no one is going to believe in her, then why should she be a better person? Why shouldn't she just stay the same? She's arguably no worse than she was in Queen Wasp, the consequences are just greater because of Hawkmoth's plan and the powers he gives her. The only real change is that she no longer idolizes Ladybug so Ladybug no longer has a chance to encourage Chloe to be a better person, but Ladybug never did that anyway, so what does it really matter?

Once again, none of this is to blame Marinette. She doesn't have to try and make her bully a better person. That's a huge ask. But with no one actively trying to make Chloe better even when she shows that she can be better when given the right motivation, it's silly to say that Chloe had a damnation arc or really any arc at all. She ended where she started and, if that's all they wanted to do with her, then they should have just left her as a one-dimensional mean girl instead of making her one of the most developed characters in this bloated mess of a show.

Personally, I would have liked to see a redemption arc because I enjoy morally grey characters and it would have been nice to have someone on the team who wasn't a kind, sweet, goody-goody (for a team with 18 freaking members, there's really no moral diversity, which is boring). It also would have stopped Chloe and Lila filling the same basic role for 3 seasons, which was stupid. (Why do you think Lila showed up so little? It's because Chloe could do almost everything she could do and do it better.) Second choice would be don't develop Chloe, leave her as a petty mean girl and give her focused screen time to Nino and Adrien. Their relationship is barely a thing and that's disappointing considering its strong setup. Cutting Lila and giving Chloe a true damnation arc would have also been far more satisfying.

The people who support Belos remind me a lot of the people who support Funny Valentine justifying that everything he did was for the good of his country but they forget that his actions would affect the entire world and sooner or later the United States would have repercussions for Valentine's actions. Literally Valentine is a genocidal white colonizer in the sense that during the time in which he governs they continue to massacre the natives and steal their territory as seen in the story of Sandman and his plan is basically to expand this genocide in the rest of the countries. of the world to adhere to an ideal world led by the United States. Likewise, if Belos were to succeed and go to the Human World he would probably only expand that same genocide of the Boiling Islands into the Human Realm so that they would adhere to his ideal of what humans should be like.

Clearly Luz and Johnny are selfish but they mature, they improve as people, they are able to interact with people who do not adhere to what Belos and Valentine want (witches and foreigners) and they do not seek to harm others to maintain an ideology of supremacist entitlement like Belos and Valentine were doing.

Furthermore, Belos is the type of colonizer who loathes a culture, but also feels entitled to it and is pissed off when it doesn’t bend over backwards to his demands. He wanted the glyphs of the Titan but he refused to respect her and her people, her body, her customs, and opted to take it by force; A method needlessly more complicated, difficult, and arduous than just humbling himself and learning on someone else’s terms. 

So to see some people have the fucking gall to treat Belos’ seizure of what is essentially a native resource as some W over that mean and unsuccessful Titan, disparage Luz as ‘not working’ for the glyphs like he did (ignoring how this brown girl actually put in the work of adapting to another culture), and unironically praise his ‘protestant work ethic’ is just… racist! It’s racist!!! 

It’s buying into the conservative strong man myth that Belos got where he did ‘by the grit of his own teeth’, when really he lied to and cheated people who actually put in effort and suffered the consequences for him; He stood on people’s shoulders without consent and attributed their sacrifices as his own like so many American Dream capitalists, instead of appreciating and reciprocating others’ help the way Luz did. It’s buying into the idea that Belos’ atrocities can be overlooked for the sake of admiring how he ‘got things done’, because that’s just the price of success!!! Like I dunno maybe we shouldn’t even jokingly praise a character for being a colonizing thief, a swindling capitalist in all but name.

This reminds me of that time I saw someone’s Road to El Dorado AU where Philip plays the role of one of the white Spanish dudes. Like are you fucking for real. You saw a genocidal white colonizer who impersonates a local religion he has no real understanding over to manipulate the natives for his own selfish ends and you actually said, “Okay but what if we treated it as a cute and good thing this time? What if we treated his blatant disinterest in everything that isn’t seizing the natives’ resources as a teehee trait???” I don’t care if Philip is chill and doesn’t murder people in this version of events. Y’all are just being lowkey, if not outright, racist. 

Belos is an effective satire of right-wing conservatives and radicalized white supremacists, genocidal colonizers who bastardize and appropriate cultures, “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” success stories, entitled abusers with all their excuses, and Christian self-flagellation and savior complexes. Dana based him off of televangelists, cult leaders, and her own conservative relatives. And yet so many people willingly ignore the whole point of Belos’ narrative and themes to reduce him to just “Caleb’s moody brother” or some sadboi victim of religious trauma, as if Philip didn't willingly embrace Puritan ideology regardless of whatever drawbacks it may have had, because it ultimately promised superiority…

And with the AUs that strip Belos of everything that makes him Belos for the sake of some feel-good story that undermines the show’s themes and does his victims dirty, that isn’t even an alternate version that’s just a completely different, made-up guy with none of the depth. How he's going to learn his lesson in a redemption fic if the first thing the writer does is undo the curse to restore Philip's White Man status that he so obsessively clung onto, and lost for that very reason? How is he going to learn his lesson if the writer can't seem to properly comprehend what exactly he did wrong and the actual reasons for it???