I Think The Problem Chloe Has Is The Same Problem Magnifico From Wish Had: The Writers Didn't Know What

I think the problem Chloe has is the same problem Magnifico from Wish had: the writers didn't know what to do with these characters so they didn't give them a consistent arc to the point of not knowing if they were going to be bad or have a redemption.

There was no Redemption or Damnation. Chloe Doesn't Actually Have an Arc at All

Does Chloe have an abandoned redemption arc?

No. Absolutely not. She also doesn't have a “damnation” arc or really any arc at all. She is a font of wasted potential for both redemption and damnation who never gets a true chance at either path. To explain what I mean, I have to first discuss the two types of redemption arcs and also how damnation arcs work. I’ll be doing this by discussing the guy who started the redemption arc trend, Zuko, and why his story doesn’t work for people like Chloe.

The Two Types of Redemption + Some Bonus Damnation

There are two general paths to redemption: redemption through a change in worldview (the easy path) and redemption through a change in self (the hard path).

Redemption through a change in worldview is what happens when you take a character who is a fundamentally good person and give them a messed up worldview, usually through their upbringing. The story will see that worldview challenged, resulting in the character changing how they view the world, but that’s about it. They don’t really have to make major changes to themselves at a fundamental level.

This is Zuko’s path. He’s born in the Fire Nation and raised to think that the Fire Nation is good. He also has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. When he’s included in a war council and told that the army leaders are going to willingly sacrifice Fire Nation troops, he stands up and says that’s wrong. This act results in him getting banished. During his banishment, he gets to see the rest of the world and learn that the Fire Nation is, in fact, NOT good. This ultimately leads to him switching sides because he has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. Who he is and how he acts never really changes.

Chloe is not like Zuko. She is a selfish, egotistical, petty, spoiled brat. For her to be redeemed, she has to accept that fundamental aspects of her character are deeply flawed. This might involve some changes to her worldview, but that’s only a tiny piece of what needs to change and I’m honestly not sure that she really has a messed up worldview. There are multiple instances where it’s clear that she knows that she’s being mean or bad and just doesn’t care.

This brings us to the topic of damnation arcs. For something to be a damnation arc, a person has to be presented with a choice between good and evil and they have to choose evil. Zuko actually has one of these. At the end of the second season of Avatar, Zuko is given the choice to join the good guys or to join his sister and be accepted back into his family.

He chooses his sister.

That’s a damnation arc because Zuko truly had a chance to change sides. The scene would play very differently if Zuko had to choose between staying in exile and joining his sister. Joining his sister would still be the wrong move, but it’s no longer damnation. It’s just doing a bad thing vs doing nothing (though it can be argued to be somewhat damning since Zuko is going against his own morals). Along similar lines, Zuko is redeemed when he chooses to abandon his family to do what’s right even though it costs him everything he wanted: his family, his girlfriend, and his home.

This is where Chloe’s “damnation” and redemption arcs fall apart. There is no point in the series where she’s actively given a choice between good and evil. She only ever makes choices between inaction and evil or inaction and good. Does that make her a good person? Hell no! But it does make the argument that she had an arc fall very flat. She never gets better, but it's hard to say that she gets worse.

Chloe’s Choices: The Good and The Bad

Chloe becomes Queen Bee without anyone saying she was fit for the role. She just finds a miraculous and uses it. The way she uses it is selfish, egotistical, and petty. In other words, it’s just Chloe being Chloe. While the actions she takes are horrible and definitely deserve punishment, they’re in character. She’s not acting worse than normal, she’s just being herself, but with superpowers. If she’d been given the miraculous and been charged to be a hero, then her actions would be damning because she would be choosing to go against her charge. But she’s not. She has no charge.

To really assess if Chloe has potential to change, you have to look at what she does when she’s given the choice to be good and this is where things get messy.

This is how Chloe’s first encounter with her miraculous ends:

Ladybug: I have to get the Miraculous back, Chloé. (in the background, Nadja's van arrives) Chloé: Give me a second chance, please! Nadja: (holding a tablet with Audrey on it) Audrey Bourgeois, tell us live how you feel about what just happened. Audrey: (on the tablet) According to me, Chloé just clearly demonstrated that there is nothing exceptional about her. Cat Noir: (puts a hand on Chloé's shoulder) I know that you did the things you did to impress your mother. Ladybug: Anyone can make mistakes, even a superhero. What matters is how you fix them. I personally made one by losing that Miraculous. Don't make the mistake of not giving it back. Act like a hero. Cat Noir: And show everyone how exceptional you can be. (Chloé hands Ladybug the Miraculous) Ladybug: Thank you. Chloé: (the duo are about to run off) Ladybug? Cat Noir? (the cameraman moves closer) I'm sorry.

Chloe doesn't fight to keep her miraculous. A few quick lines are all it takes for her to hand it over. When Ladybug gives Chloe the chance to act like a hero would, Chloe acts like a hero. The same can be said of every subsequent time when Ladybug gives Chloe the bee miraculous. Every time Chloe is called upon to be Queen Bee, she does the job to the best of her abilities and acts as a functional member of the team. She's not incompetent. She doesn't put the team in danger so that she can be in the spotlight. Heck, the very next time she gets it, Chloe willingly admits that her father’s akumatization was her fault.

Chloé: It— it was me. I hurt my daddy's feelings. Because I want to leave Paris, forever. Ladybug: Because of what happened in school? I'm sure Marinette probably didn't exactly mean what she said. Chloé: Oh, it's not just her— actually, I don't even care about her— it's because I have no reason to be here: nobody likes me; I have no friends. I'm… useless. Ladybug: (remembering what Adrien told Marinette earlier at school about Chloé) A friend once told me: nobody is useless, Chloé. Chloé: It's easy for you to say that. You're Ladybug, a superhero. You serve a purpose. Ladybug: Yes, I can fix up all the messes. You said it yourself in your documentary. Chloé: (gasps) You saw it?! Ladybug: (nods) Mm-hmm. Chloé: Oh! I'm so embarrassed. That film's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I realize that now. Ladybug: Don't worry Chloé. You can fix your own messes, if that's what you want. You, too, can serve a purpose, but you have to want to. Chloé: (sniffles) I do want to.

When Ladybug asks Chloe to be a better person, Chloe is a better person.

This is why I say that Chloe has a perfectly functional view of the world. She knows when she’s doing something wrong and is able to do good when challenged to do so. Even on the civilian side, we see that Chloe is willing to be a little better when given the proper motivation. In Despair Bear, Adrien says he’ll end their friendship and so Chloe actively tries to save that friendship even if she hates every minute of it. Similarly, in Zombiezoo, Chloe sacrifices herself so that Ladybug can win.

Now, none of this is a redemption. It is, at best, the foundation for a redemption. We see that Chloe has the potential to be good when challenged to do so by the right person or circumstance, but she’s not trying to be better outside of those moments when she’s challenged. For her redemption to really start, she has to choose good over evil. She has to start improving when Ladybug isn’t watching or when Adrien isn’t threatening their friendship. For it to be a damnation, she has to choose evil over good.

She is never truly given that choice.

The two big scenes where Chloe gets “worse” are at the end of Queen Wasp and at the end of Hearthunter. However, in both of those scenes, no one gives her a choice to be better even though she’s primed and ready to make that choice.

Queen Wasp: When the Civilian Moment Should Have Happened

At the tail end of Queen Wasp, Marinette has the choice to go to New York with Audrey or stay in Paris. She chooses Paris, but brings Chloe with her to try and repair the relationship between mother and daughter. Here, Marinette gets to really see just how little Audrey cares for Chloe.

In a show where Chloe has a character arc, this should be the moment when she’s given a choice. She’s just spent the whole episode trying to get her mom to love her and it’s gone nowhere. Marinette, our hero, is standing right there, fully capable of saying, “You know what Chloe, your mom sucks and you don't need her validation. I know some people who already think that you're awesome. Come on, let’s get you back home and I’ll call Adrien and Sabrina to meet us there.”

Instead, this is what happens:

Marinette: I think you're wrong. A huge part of your life is here in Paris, too! (she steps aside, showing Chloé and Butler Jean) Audrey: Chlorene? Uh— Chloé? Chloé: (looks at her mother, then at Marinette in a guilty manner, then back at her mom) Why don't you love me, Mom? Audrey: But… Uh— Of course I l-l-love you. Marinette: (groans) You're also wrong about your daughter not being exceptional. In fact, Chloé is exceptionally mean. She's the worst person I've ever met. She may be more heinous, pompous and selfish than you. Compared to both of you, even a rock seems more capable of love. (Audrey and Chloé are furious with Marinette for telling mean things to them.) Chloé and Audrey: (shouting) How dare you⁈ (gasp and look surprised at each other) Marinette: See? You're both much more alike than you think. (walks off; humming)

…our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen.

I’m not saying that Chloe’s poor behavior is Marinette’s fault. Chloe’s choices are her own, but it’s hard to say, “why didn’t she change?” when even Ladybug doesn’t seem to want her to. If no one is actively encouraging Chloe whenever she does better, then it's 1000x harder for her to get better. Fake it til you make it is a huge part of self improvement. Being a better person for validation or selfish reasons often leads to meaningful change and is a legitimate way to start a self-driven redemption arc. (Go watch The Good Place if you want a prime example of this.)

Hearthunter: When the Hero Moment Should Have Happened

Hearthunter and Miracle Queen are supposedly the end of Chloe’s “damnation” arc. The moment where she makes the wrong choice and, to be clear, Chloe does the wrong thing here. Helping Hawkmoth is a bad move and she deserved to face some consequences. However, the choice to help Hawkmoth has the weirdest setup for a “damnation” arc that I’ve ever seen.

In Miraculer, we get this line from Gabriel: all I need is for [Chloe] to lose all hope in Ladybug. To become angry enough so I can akumatize her.

This is also the episode where Chloe rejects an akuma (Chloé: No, Hawk Moth! I am a superheroine! I am Queen Bee! Ladybug will come and get me when she needs me! I WILL NEVER JOIN YOU!), the episode where Lila helps manipulate Chloe into doubting Ladybug, and the episode where Ladybug tell’s Chloe that she’ll never be Queen Bee again, setting up the tension for the season final.

However, even though that tension is set, the thing that turns Chloe to the dark side is… her parents being akumatized. Not some random akuma that Chloe wants to help with. Not Hawkmoth just randomly showing up with the bee. No, we have both of Chloe's parents as the victim of the day and Ladybug actively chooses Ryuuko over Queen Bee, making Chloe the first and only hero who doesn’t get called in when a loved one is in trouble.

All of that leads to this:

Hawk Moth: Chloé Bourgeois, rejections hurt! (Chloé turns to face him) Your talents deserve to be recognized! Ladybug and Cat Noir's reign has gone on long enough. It's time for Paris to have a new queen, and the Queen Bee on my chessboard is you. Chloé: You've akumatized my parents! If I had my Miraculous I'd- Hawk Moth: (puts up his hand and interrupts) You're right, but I did it for one reason only. So that you would finally realize that Ladybug will never give you the Bee Miraculous again. I, however, always keep my promises. (shows her the Bee Miraculous in his hand) Chloé: This isn't real! How do you have it? Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her, and what has she done for you in return? Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to deakumatize has my parents first!

Just like with Queen Wasp, Chloe does the wrong thing. She didn’t have to take the bee. She didn't have to stay selfish, egotistical, and petty. But at the same time, this isn’t really a damning act. It's an act that makes her unsuitable to be Queen Bee again, but she wasn't going to be Queen Bee anyway. She wasn't choosing to be a villain over a hero. She was just choosing to be selfish at a time when she's been actively manipulated and when her parents are in danger.

In other words, this is just Chloe being Chloe. She’s acting the same way she did when she first got her miraculous. If no one is going to believe in her, then why should she be a better person? Why shouldn't she just stay the same? She's arguably no worse than she was in Queen Wasp, the consequences are just greater because of Hawkmoth's plan and the powers he gives her. The only real change is that she no longer idolizes Ladybug so Ladybug no longer has a chance to encourage Chloe to be a better person, but Ladybug never did that anyway, so what does it really matter?

Once again, none of this is to blame Marinette. She doesn't have to try and make her bully a better person. That's a huge ask. But with no one actively trying to make Chloe better even when she shows that she can be better when given the right motivation, it's silly to say that Chloe had a damnation arc or really any arc at all. She ended where she started and, if that's all they wanted to do with her, then they should have just left her as a one-dimensional mean girl instead of making her one of the most developed characters in this bloated mess of a show.

Personally, I would have liked to see a redemption arc because I enjoy morally grey characters and it would have been nice to have someone on the team who wasn't a kind, sweet, goody-goody (for a team with 18 freaking members, there's really no moral diversity, which is boring). It also would have stopped Chloe and Lila filling the same basic role for 3 seasons, which was stupid. (Why do you think Lila showed up so little? It's because Chloe could do almost everything she could do and do it better.) Second choice would be don't develop Chloe, leave her as a petty mean girl and give her focused screen time to Nino and Adrien. Their relationship is barely a thing and that's disappointing considering its strong setup. Cutting Lila and giving Chloe a true damnation arc would have also been far more satisfying.

Angron using the chancla be like:

Secret weapon.

I don't know if you saw the Fairly OddParents but the scenario of Chloe going to the real world to beat up Thomas Astruc would be like in the end of an episode from the Fairly OddParents when Nega Chin goes to the real world to find the creator of Crimson Chin and he tells him "let's have a little chat about heroes" and proceeds to beat him up.

Let's be real, Chloe should've been the next Hawkmoth more than Lila, simply because Chloe has more reasons to terrorize the city.

The whole city was against her. Her parents were against her. She lost her privilege. She lost her hero status, and with the temp heroes are all back, it adds salt on her injuries. She hates both protagonists. And she's more than likely has enough savings to get herself supplies of butterflies and a hiding place, or she can just take one of Audrey's credit card.

Meanwhile, Lila's reason is just lame and petty. She hates Marinette and Ladybug (and Chat Noir as extension, but let's be real, who even cares about him at this point? Because the writers surely don't), she has the truth about Gabe that's more than likely only gonna be used in S7 finale, and...that's about it. She has no reason to terrorize the city other than to bring inconvenience for Ladybug. She couldn't care less about Adrien if it's not to hurt Mari. And she's infamous for bending reality to get everything her way no matter how big of a BS that is.

(Yes yes, i know that Lila is smarter and it would makes more sense for her to be the villain, but if her being smart means turning everyone into amoeba brain, then i reject the idea.)

I guess it's worth a shot to make Butterfly!Chloe AU fic.

I said it before and I’ll sing it as many times as I have to : the precise reason Casca survived the Eclipse is that 1) within the narrative, the Skull Knight intervened and saved them and 2) outside of the narrative, Griffith would have instantly killed Casca instead of raping her, if she hadn't been just as "guilty" in Griffith's eye as Guts for his jealousy. Raping Casca was not only about punishing Guts for choosing Casca, it was also about punishing Casca for choosing Guts, instead choosing him, Griffith, because he failed to see that he still greatly mattered to both of them, despite them having fallen in love with each other.

Complementing what you said, I want to share other reasons why I think Griffith wanted revenge on Casca too:

1) He saw that Guts and Casca were happy which probably meant that, in addition to realizing that he was no longer the epicenter of Guts and Casca, Griffith became suspicious of the closeness that Guts and Casca had after their rescue and the fight against Wyald (maybe even he suspected that they had intimate relationships) which makes him suspect that they purposely abandoned him in that prison and took advantage of his absence to be happy at the cost of his torture. When he tries to attack Casca, she rejects him but does not recriminate him nor does she tell him that She loves him, she doesn't even kiss him but she simply expresses pity for him and hugs him out of pity, which confirms Griffith's suspicion.

2) After Guts' fight against Wyald, it is Casca who tells Guts that if he wants to be Griffith's equal he will have to leave without her or the Hawks (including Griffith) and Griffith heard everything Casca said. Basically, Griffith not only punished Casca by stripping her of her agency and using her as a pawn to hurt Guts and because she chose Guts over him and his dream, but Griffith punishes her for (in Griffith's mind) encouraging Guts to abandon him again.

3) This reason is related to the previous two and is that the vision of Griffith living a quiet life with Casca is like a harbinger of the possible future that he would have as a result of Guts' second departure and Casca being left alone as his nurse out of pity, just imagine Griffith's situation: living without being able to move or take care of himself, without being able to speak, that Casca only stays with him out of pity and that the son they are raising is not even his son but Guts', that must be frustrating because what the vision shows is not only everything previously said but that Griffith now lives under Guts' shadow in all aspects. Griffith simply couldn't stand that Casca doesn't stay with him because she loves him but she only does it out of pity for his condition as an invalid.

That is why Griffith punishes Guts and Casca because if he cannot be in their hearts as their epicenter for love then he will force them to have him in their hearts and think of him through hate and/or fear.

For real though, the main issue I have with ship wars between one mlm ship and one het ship is not even that the character who gets slandered is automatically the woman (duh), over some obscure concept that her writing is suboptimal while the mlm dynamic has more depth or whatever

No really, it’s more the fact that ship wars exist simply because society once decided that somehow there needs to be a hierarchy between romantic dynamics and platonic (ie friendship) ones, with romantic ones necessarily having more importance and significance for the characters involved (same for people irl).

Therefore it is my belief that over 90% of ship wars wouldn’t exist, if most fans didn’t feel the need to systematically give more emotional weight to romantic dynamics over platonic ones, and that even when the writers themselves gave countless examples within the narrative that both mattered independently for the characters involved.

TL;DR love exists in all shapes and forms and doesn’t need hierarchy or comparison to be validated

No one asked for it, but I said what I said.

Ruby Rose and Michael Kaiser: Two Growing Roses

I don't know about you but Kaiser shares things in common with Ruby and in a way Kaiser is what Ruby would have been if she hadn't received love from her family and friends in her life.

I'm quite aware that many think that Ruby is more like Kunigami and Kaiser is more like Mercury and Cinder but as I watched their arcs I couldn't help but notice how they are more similar than it seems and that's because Ruby and Kaiser are the same person under different circumstances.

To begin with, Ruby and Kaiser's struggle is rooted in their respective relationships with their families. To begin with, they had to deal with enormous pain at a very young age caused by the disappearance of their mothers:

On the one hand Ruby was raised in an unstable family environment where her mother went on a mission and never returned which caused her family to break down: her father Tai was consumed by depression, Yang had to be a surrogate mother for Ruby although she was also a girl who suffers from the abandonment of Raven, and Qrow, despite being the most stable figure for Ruby, he already had a history of having a semblance of bad luck that he cannot control and that he comes from a family of bandits but Summer's disappearance was the straw that broke the camel's back and he ended up sinking into alcoholism but despite everything all of them continued to love Ruby and tried to do everything possible to stay together as a family.

On the other hand, Kaiser grew up in a completely broken family: his father was a film director and his mother was a famous actress, they both fell in love and Kaiser was born as a result of that relationship, but his mother abandons them to continue with her acting career and his father is so submerged by pain to the point that he becomes an alcoholic, loses his prestige as a director and vents all his anger and pain on his son to the point of telling him that himself (Kaiser's father) and Kaiser's mother are worth less but that Kaiser doesn't even have value.

Both situations are quite different but the effect it caused on both is practically the same: Ruby and Kaiser see themselves as a burden and want to compensate their existence by being special.

Ruby witnesses her suffering from the loss of her mother, which is why she ends up seeing herself as a burden and wanting to be a copy of her mother, not only because she admires her and wants to emulate her to feel that somehow Summer still alive, but she also empathizes with her family and wants to ease the pain they have from losing Summer.

Kaiser sees himself as less than human and witnessing violence and insults throughout his childhood which makes him unable Kaiser is unable to empathize with others, interacts with people through violenceand ends up believing that in order to feel that he is valuable and not a burden he has to take away the value of others.

Even the mere fact that they both look like their mothers only makes them both view their own existence as less: Ruby feels like she has to be Summer's copy to make up for her lack but knows she can never replace her. Because of the way Kaiser's father treated him, Kaiser subconsciously internalizes that he can never be a human (in other words he can never make up for his mother's absence or be loved by his father) because to his own father Kaiser is worth less than himself (Kaiser's father) and his mother (and there are even indications that Kaiser's father probably hated him because of the resemblance Kaiser has to his mother and that made him remember her and increased his pain for abandoning him after having Kaiser).

They have rose motifs and the reason is because of their mothers: Summer left her rose emblem as a symbol of love for her daughters, Kaiser's mother abandoned him and his father and the only thing she left behind was a blue rose that Kaiser's father keeps it as a souvenir of her, becoming a reminder of lack of love.

As I said before, Ruby and Kaiser have rose motifs only that Ruby's motifs focus on the petals and Kaiser's motifs focus on the thorns, this shows that despite being opposites they still have similarities between them just like the petals and thorns are different parts of the rose but they are still parts of the same flower.

Also the fact that their rose motifs are different is because Ruby received love which makes her develop kindness while Kaiser only received hate which makes him develop his malice. This shaped the way they both seek to compensate for their existence:

Ruby compensate her existence by being the huntress who helps and protects everyone with her kindness.

Kaiser compensate his existence by being a striker who crushes his enemies on the field with his malice.

The way in which they both want to compensate or give meaning to their existence is through something that they were passionate about since their childhood: Ruby always listened to fairy tales, stories of Summer and the stories of other hunters in general and the only good thing that Kaiser had in his childhood was his soccer ball that bought himself.

Ruby and Kaiser get their chance to continue their quest to compensate for their existence after they got into trouble and they are detained for that: Ruby stopping Roman from robbing a dust store and Glynda helps her but immediately afterwards takes her to an interrogation room for acting without being a licensed hunter and Kaiser being framed for a crime he didn't commit, beating his father for trying to protect his precious soccer ball and the police and being arrested for it.

After Ruby and Kaiser are detained, an adult (Ozpin/Ray Dark) comes to recruit them when they realizes that they have talent for their respective areas (huntress and silver eyed warrior/footballer and striker). Ruby and Kaiser take the opportunity and join them and although at first they have trouble adapting to their teammates, they eventually manage to become outstanding huntress/footballer who manage to inspire them. Only while Ruby inspires them with her skill as a leader and her optimism, Kaiser does so through his skill as a striker and manipulation.

Part of the reason they have managed to be so prominent in their respective fields is because they have proven capable of being resourceful and cunning, even more than people give them credit for: Ruby is always seen as a naive and enthusiastic girl, but she has managed to make her enemies lower their guard and attack them when they least expect it and Kaiser not only manipulates people off the field, but is able to think and create solid plays when playing his matches.

However, Ruby and Kaiser share their obsession with being the best in their respective areas to the point of becoming symbols because that way they don't have to deal with their trauma and even refuse to talk about it with those closest to them. Ruby is so busy saving others that she doesn't have time to think about her own trauma, Kaiser takes too much delight in being the best striker on his team that he pushes aside any thoughts about his own trauma. Neither of them thinks about it because both Ruby and Kaiser see themselves as worthless to the point that not only do they feel they have to prove that they are not a burden, but they both believe that their own traumas are not important because Ruby and Kaiser deep down doesn't believe that themselves are important.

Ruby and Kaiser have a belief in “making the impossible happen”, Ruby really believes that she should keep fighting even if winning is impossible, she believes that she and her friends can stop Salem and change Remnant for the better, Kaiser really believes that if he was able to escape from his abusive home that seemed impossible, he can achieve anything he sets his mind to. However, Ruby and Kaiser take this belief to extremes due to their respective traumas, which prevents them from having true growth: Ruby truly believes that she has the weight of the world on her shoulders and that she has to solve everyone's problems, Kaiser never believed in himself to the point that he needs to feel that others are inferior to him in order to feel special.

All of the above makes both characters want to become symbols (after all there is nothing better to represent the impossible than a symbol), only they don't understand that being symbols isn't about Ruby redeeming the world with her hope or Kaiser destroying the hope of others; it's about Ruby and Kaiser learning to live in a world that wants to crush hope with their hope still intact.

Ruby and Kaiser believe that symbols are loved by everyone and that symbols don't feel pain but always move forward but Ruby and Kaiser forget that they are still human so seeing themselves as symbols that don't feel pain is not a healthy coping mechanism and as their respective stories progress these coping mechanisms stop being viable and they are forced to take the first step to grow which is to accept their humanity (accept their trauma to be able to face it, accept that they are humans who suffer and they fail like anyone else but don't let themselves be defined by said suffering or failures, be more independent, trust others more and ask for their help, etc.) because if they don't do so they will not advance.

Even in their closest relationships there are subtle evidences and consequences of that stagnation, Ruby feels that she owes it to Yang to be the perfect little sister and leader, Kaiser always receives assistance from Ness and depends on his passes to score goals (Ness and Yang are also dependent on Kaiser and Ruby: Yang sees Ruby as the younger sister who needs protection, Ness sees Kaiser as a symbol of the magic he wants to see but doesn't know him for who he really is, Ruby and Kaiser on the other hand don't understand that they are already enough for Yang and Ness, so I I think that both Kaiser and Ness and Ruby and Yang have to be more independent from each other so that their bond is healthier and stronger).

Their abilities as well as their roses motif show evidence of this stagnation too. Ruby rushes to be the perfect hunter by using her semblance to help others quickly, but she can scatter and lose herself. On the other hand, Kaiser is so focused on crushing his opponents with his thorned goals that he doesn't realize that he could become crushed by his own thorns.

But part of those first steps that they need to take to begin to evolve begin with a process of destruction

and rebirth.

Part of that rebirth is that both have to redefine the meaning of their rose motifs: Ruby and Kaiser must convert the meaning of the rose (a mother's promise/a mother's abandonment, being in the end a reminder of the pain left by the departures of both women in the lives of Ruby and Kaiser) and give them a new meaning, converting them from the symbol of their mothers to their own symbols, the roses go from being a symbol of loss to a symbol of hope. Ruby transforms her mother's rose symbol into a symbol of “achieving the impossible” not only for her family, friends and the people of Remnant but also for herself by inspiring everyone to have hope, Kaiser is finally able to stand up, regain his hope and turn the game in his favor with his “Impact Kaiser Magnum” move, a move that was considered impossible in the circumstances in which he found himself.

Ruby Rose stops being Summer Rose 2.0, remembers who she is and takes the first steps to recognize herself as her own person, Kaiser goes from being the prodigy of Bastard Munchen, remembers who he was and that drives him to take the first steps to define himself not because of his status but as his own person.

Curiously, both had to reconnect with their inner child in order to move forward and take these first steps towards their evolution: Ruby connects with Little (who represents her inner child) who is vital for her development in volume 9, Kaiser remembers his self as a child and this becomes key to his growth in the match against PXG.

And even both of them have a rivalry with someone who are considered high-level strategists who have enormous resentment towards our roses for different reasons:

Although Isagi has more valid reasons for being upset with Kaiser than Cinder being upset with Ruby but that still doesn't take away from the fact that part of the reason Ruby and Kaiser go through their breakdowns and development arcs is because of the actions of Cinder and Isagi.

Cinder hates Ruby for hurting her with her silver eyes (optimism), but I'm sure that later Ruby along with other characters will save and inspire Cinder to change.

Isagi on the other hand clearly hates Kaiser for the way he treats him (malice) but also sees Kaiser as the type of soccer player he aspires to be and is inspired by his plays to improve his own.

Our roses' journey is not over yet, but considering how their arcs are similar despite their differences, I am excited to see how they will end and I am very sure that there will be more similarities and contrast between the two.

It's quite curious and funny that Star accidentally achieved in a matter of minutes what Belos wanted to do, having planned it for more than 400 years.