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It would be fantastic and even fun if this happened in the show but taking into account the mediocre writing that the show has, I highly doubt that the writers would let something like this be done.

So is that just her own schedule and she was keeping it up to date with everything she knows about Adrien then? That’d honestly be a lot less creepy and a good explanation.

Still a bit stalker-ish having all that stuff about Adrien on there in the first place but it’s an improvement

Also that looks like the picture from the opening credits of Alya and Marinette where they have mustaches drawn on

I think the problem Chloe has is the same problem Magnifico from Wish had: the writers didn't know what to do with these characters so they didn't give them a consistent arc to the point of not knowing if they were going to be bad or have a redemption.

There was no Redemption or Damnation. Chloe Doesn't Actually Have an Arc at All

Does Chloe have an abandoned redemption arc?

No. Absolutely not. She also doesn't have a “damnation” arc or really any arc at all. She is a font of wasted potential for both redemption and damnation who never gets a true chance at either path. To explain what I mean, I have to first discuss the two types of redemption arcs and also how damnation arcs work. I’ll be doing this by discussing the guy who started the redemption arc trend, Zuko, and why his story doesn’t work for people like Chloe.

The Two Types of Redemption + Some Bonus Damnation

There are two general paths to redemption: redemption through a change in worldview (the easy path) and redemption through a change in self (the hard path).

Redemption through a change in worldview is what happens when you take a character who is a fundamentally good person and give them a messed up worldview, usually through their upbringing. The story will see that worldview challenged, resulting in the character changing how they view the world, but that’s about it. They don’t really have to make major changes to themselves at a fundamental level.

This is Zuko’s path. He’s born in the Fire Nation and raised to think that the Fire Nation is good. He also has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. When he’s included in a war council and told that the army leaders are going to willingly sacrifice Fire Nation troops, he stands up and says that’s wrong. This act results in him getting banished. During his banishment, he gets to see the rest of the world and learn that the Fire Nation is, in fact, NOT good. This ultimately leads to him switching sides because he has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. Who he is and how he acts never really changes.

Chloe is not like Zuko. She is a selfish, egotistical, petty, spoiled brat. For her to be redeemed, she has to accept that fundamental aspects of her character are deeply flawed. This might involve some changes to her worldview, but that’s only a tiny piece of what needs to change and I’m honestly not sure that she really has a messed up worldview. There are multiple instances where it’s clear that she knows that she’s being mean or bad and just doesn’t care.

This brings us to the topic of damnation arcs. For something to be a damnation arc, a person has to be presented with a choice between good and evil and they have to choose evil. Zuko actually has one of these. At the end of the second season of Avatar, Zuko is given the choice to join the good guys or to join his sister and be accepted back into his family.

He chooses his sister.

That’s a damnation arc because Zuko truly had a chance to change sides. The scene would play very differently if Zuko had to choose between staying in exile and joining his sister. Joining his sister would still be the wrong move, but it’s no longer damnation. It’s just doing a bad thing vs doing nothing (though it can be argued to be somewhat damning since Zuko is going against his own morals). Along similar lines, Zuko is redeemed when he chooses to abandon his family to do what’s right even though it costs him everything he wanted: his family, his girlfriend, and his home.

This is where Chloe’s “damnation” and redemption arcs fall apart. There is no point in the series where she’s actively given a choice between good and evil. She only ever makes choices between inaction and evil or inaction and good. Does that make her a good person? Hell no! But it does make the argument that she had an arc fall very flat. She never gets better, but it's hard to say that she gets worse.

Chloe’s Choices: The Good and The Bad

Chloe becomes Queen Bee without anyone saying she was fit for the role. She just finds a miraculous and uses it. The way she uses it is selfish, egotistical, and petty. In other words, it’s just Chloe being Chloe. While the actions she takes are horrible and definitely deserve punishment, they’re in character. She’s not acting worse than normal, she’s just being herself, but with superpowers. If she’d been given the miraculous and been charged to be a hero, then her actions would be damning because she would be choosing to go against her charge. But she’s not. She has no charge.

To really assess if Chloe has potential to change, you have to look at what she does when she’s given the choice to be good and this is where things get messy.

This is how Chloe’s first encounter with her miraculous ends:

Ladybug: I have to get the Miraculous back, Chloé. (in the background, Nadja's van arrives) Chloé: Give me a second chance, please! Nadja: (holding a tablet with Audrey on it) Audrey Bourgeois, tell us live how you feel about what just happened. Audrey: (on the tablet) According to me, Chloé just clearly demonstrated that there is nothing exceptional about her. Cat Noir: (puts a hand on Chloé's shoulder) I know that you did the things you did to impress your mother. Ladybug: Anyone can make mistakes, even a superhero. What matters is how you fix them. I personally made one by losing that Miraculous. Don't make the mistake of not giving it back. Act like a hero. Cat Noir: And show everyone how exceptional you can be. (Chloé hands Ladybug the Miraculous) Ladybug: Thank you. Chloé: (the duo are about to run off) Ladybug? Cat Noir? (the cameraman moves closer) I'm sorry.

Chloe doesn't fight to keep her miraculous. A few quick lines are all it takes for her to hand it over. When Ladybug gives Chloe the chance to act like a hero would, Chloe acts like a hero. The same can be said of every subsequent time when Ladybug gives Chloe the bee miraculous. Every time Chloe is called upon to be Queen Bee, she does the job to the best of her abilities and acts as a functional member of the team. She's not incompetent. She doesn't put the team in danger so that she can be in the spotlight. Heck, the very next time she gets it, Chloe willingly admits that her father’s akumatization was her fault.

Chloé: It— it was me. I hurt my daddy's feelings. Because I want to leave Paris, forever. Ladybug: Because of what happened in school? I'm sure Marinette probably didn't exactly mean what she said. Chloé: Oh, it's not just her— actually, I don't even care about her— it's because I have no reason to be here: nobody likes me; I have no friends. I'm… useless. Ladybug: (remembering what Adrien told Marinette earlier at school about Chloé) A friend once told me: nobody is useless, Chloé. Chloé: It's easy for you to say that. You're Ladybug, a superhero. You serve a purpose. Ladybug: Yes, I can fix up all the messes. You said it yourself in your documentary. Chloé: (gasps) You saw it?! Ladybug: (nods) Mm-hmm. Chloé: Oh! I'm so embarrassed. That film's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I realize that now. Ladybug: Don't worry Chloé. You can fix your own messes, if that's what you want. You, too, can serve a purpose, but you have to want to. Chloé: (sniffles) I do want to.

When Ladybug asks Chloe to be a better person, Chloe is a better person.

This is why I say that Chloe has a perfectly functional view of the world. She knows when she’s doing something wrong and is able to do good when challenged to do so. Even on the civilian side, we see that Chloe is willing to be a little better when given the proper motivation. In Despair Bear, Adrien says he’ll end their friendship and so Chloe actively tries to save that friendship even if she hates every minute of it. Similarly, in Zombiezoo, Chloe sacrifices herself so that Ladybug can win.

Now, none of this is a redemption. It is, at best, the foundation for a redemption. We see that Chloe has the potential to be good when challenged to do so by the right person or circumstance, but she’s not trying to be better outside of those moments when she’s challenged. For her redemption to really start, she has to choose good over evil. She has to start improving when Ladybug isn’t watching or when Adrien isn’t threatening their friendship. For it to be a damnation, she has to choose evil over good.

She is never truly given that choice.

The two big scenes where Chloe gets “worse” are at the end of Queen Wasp and at the end of Hearthunter. However, in both of those scenes, no one gives her a choice to be better even though she’s primed and ready to make that choice.

Queen Wasp: When the Civilian Moment Should Have Happened

At the tail end of Queen Wasp, Marinette has the choice to go to New York with Audrey or stay in Paris. She chooses Paris, but brings Chloe with her to try and repair the relationship between mother and daughter. Here, Marinette gets to really see just how little Audrey cares for Chloe.

In a show where Chloe has a character arc, this should be the moment when she’s given a choice. She’s just spent the whole episode trying to get her mom to love her and it’s gone nowhere. Marinette, our hero, is standing right there, fully capable of saying, “You know what Chloe, your mom sucks and you don't need her validation. I know some people who already think that you're awesome. Come on, let’s get you back home and I’ll call Adrien and Sabrina to meet us there.”

Instead, this is what happens:

Marinette: I think you're wrong. A huge part of your life is here in Paris, too! (she steps aside, showing Chloé and Butler Jean) Audrey: Chlorene? Uh— Chloé? Chloé: (looks at her mother, then at Marinette in a guilty manner, then back at her mom) Why don't you love me, Mom? Audrey: But… Uh— Of course I l-l-love you. Marinette: (groans) You're also wrong about your daughter not being exceptional. In fact, Chloé is exceptionally mean. She's the worst person I've ever met. She may be more heinous, pompous and selfish than you. Compared to both of you, even a rock seems more capable of love. (Audrey and Chloé are furious with Marinette for telling mean things to them.) Chloé and Audrey: (shouting) How dare you⁈ (gasp and look surprised at each other) Marinette: See? You're both much more alike than you think. (walks off; humming)

…our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen.

I’m not saying that Chloe’s poor behavior is Marinette’s fault. Chloe’s choices are her own, but it’s hard to say, “why didn’t she change?” when even Ladybug doesn’t seem to want her to. If no one is actively encouraging Chloe whenever she does better, then it's 1000x harder for her to get better. Fake it til you make it is a huge part of self improvement. Being a better person for validation or selfish reasons often leads to meaningful change and is a legitimate way to start a self-driven redemption arc. (Go watch The Good Place if you want a prime example of this.)

Hearthunter: When the Hero Moment Should Have Happened

Hearthunter and Miracle Queen are supposedly the end of Chloe’s “damnation” arc. The moment where she makes the wrong choice and, to be clear, Chloe does the wrong thing here. Helping Hawkmoth is a bad move and she deserved to face some consequences. However, the choice to help Hawkmoth has the weirdest setup for a “damnation” arc that I’ve ever seen.

In Miraculer, we get this line from Gabriel: all I need is for [Chloe] to lose all hope in Ladybug. To become angry enough so I can akumatize her.

This is also the episode where Chloe rejects an akuma (Chloé: No, Hawk Moth! I am a superheroine! I am Queen Bee! Ladybug will come and get me when she needs me! I WILL NEVER JOIN YOU!), the episode where Lila helps manipulate Chloe into doubting Ladybug, and the episode where Ladybug tell’s Chloe that she’ll never be Queen Bee again, setting up the tension for the season final.

However, even though that tension is set, the thing that turns Chloe to the dark side is… her parents being akumatized. Not some random akuma that Chloe wants to help with. Not Hawkmoth just randomly showing up with the bee. No, we have both of Chloe's parents as the victim of the day and Ladybug actively chooses Ryuuko over Queen Bee, making Chloe the first and only hero who doesn’t get called in when a loved one is in trouble.

All of that leads to this:

Hawk Moth: Chloé Bourgeois, rejections hurt! (Chloé turns to face him) Your talents deserve to be recognized! Ladybug and Cat Noir's reign has gone on long enough. It's time for Paris to have a new queen, and the Queen Bee on my chessboard is you. Chloé: You've akumatized my parents! If I had my Miraculous I'd- Hawk Moth: (puts up his hand and interrupts) You're right, but I did it for one reason only. So that you would finally realize that Ladybug will never give you the Bee Miraculous again. I, however, always keep my promises. (shows her the Bee Miraculous in his hand) Chloé: This isn't real! How do you have it? Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her, and what has she done for you in return? Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to deakumatize has my parents first!

Just like with Queen Wasp, Chloe does the wrong thing. She didn’t have to take the bee. She didn't have to stay selfish, egotistical, and petty. But at the same time, this isn’t really a damning act. It's an act that makes her unsuitable to be Queen Bee again, but she wasn't going to be Queen Bee anyway. She wasn't choosing to be a villain over a hero. She was just choosing to be selfish at a time when she's been actively manipulated and when her parents are in danger.

In other words, this is just Chloe being Chloe. She’s acting the same way she did when she first got her miraculous. If no one is going to believe in her, then why should she be a better person? Why shouldn't she just stay the same? She's arguably no worse than she was in Queen Wasp, the consequences are just greater because of Hawkmoth's plan and the powers he gives her. The only real change is that she no longer idolizes Ladybug so Ladybug no longer has a chance to encourage Chloe to be a better person, but Ladybug never did that anyway, so what does it really matter?

Once again, none of this is to blame Marinette. She doesn't have to try and make her bully a better person. That's a huge ask. But with no one actively trying to make Chloe better even when she shows that she can be better when given the right motivation, it's silly to say that Chloe had a damnation arc or really any arc at all. She ended where she started and, if that's all they wanted to do with her, then they should have just left her as a one-dimensional mean girl instead of making her one of the most developed characters in this bloated mess of a show.

Personally, I would have liked to see a redemption arc because I enjoy morally grey characters and it would have been nice to have someone on the team who wasn't a kind, sweet, goody-goody (for a team with 18 freaking members, there's really no moral diversity, which is boring). It also would have stopped Chloe and Lila filling the same basic role for 3 seasons, which was stupid. (Why do you think Lila showed up so little? It's because Chloe could do almost everything she could do and do it better.) Second choice would be don't develop Chloe, leave her as a petty mean girl and give her focused screen time to Nino and Adrien. Their relationship is barely a thing and that's disappointing considering its strong setup. Cutting Lila and giving Chloe a true damnation arc would have also been far more satisfying.

At this point if someone told me that Lila/Cerise/whatever her real name is is a member of the Faceless Men from A Song of Ice and Fire or member of the Alpha Legion from Warhammer 40k I would believe it.

It would be fantastic and even fun if this happened in the show but taking into account the mediocre writing that the show has, I highly doubt that the writers would let something like this be done.

So is that just her own schedule and she was keeping it up to date with everything she knows about Adrien then? That’d honestly be a lot less creepy and a good explanation.

Still a bit stalker-ish having all that stuff about Adrien on there in the first place but it’s an improvement

Also that looks like the picture from the opening credits of Alya and Marinette where they have mustaches drawn on

I think the problem Chloe has is the same problem Magnifico from Wish had: the writers didn't know what to do with these characters so they didn't give them a consistent arc to the point of not knowing if they were going to be bad or have a redemption.

There was no Redemption or Damnation. Chloe Doesn't Actually Have an Arc at All

Does Chloe have an abandoned redemption arc?

No. Absolutely not. She also doesn't have a “damnation” arc or really any arc at all. She is a font of wasted potential for both redemption and damnation who never gets a true chance at either path. To explain what I mean, I have to first discuss the two types of redemption arcs and also how damnation arcs work. I’ll be doing this by discussing the guy who started the redemption arc trend, Zuko, and why his story doesn’t work for people like Chloe.

The Two Types of Redemption + Some Bonus Damnation

There are two general paths to redemption: redemption through a change in worldview (the easy path) and redemption through a change in self (the hard path).

Redemption through a change in worldview is what happens when you take a character who is a fundamentally good person and give them a messed up worldview, usually through their upbringing. The story will see that worldview challenged, resulting in the character changing how they view the world, but that’s about it. They don’t really have to make major changes to themselves at a fundamental level.

This is Zuko’s path. He’s born in the Fire Nation and raised to think that the Fire Nation is good. He also has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. When he’s included in a war council and told that the army leaders are going to willingly sacrifice Fire Nation troops, he stands up and says that’s wrong. This act results in him getting banished. During his banishment, he gets to see the rest of the world and learn that the Fire Nation is, in fact, NOT good. This ultimately leads to him switching sides because he has a strong sense of honor and wants to do right by his people. Who he is and how he acts never really changes.

Chloe is not like Zuko. She is a selfish, egotistical, petty, spoiled brat. For her to be redeemed, she has to accept that fundamental aspects of her character are deeply flawed. This might involve some changes to her worldview, but that’s only a tiny piece of what needs to change and I’m honestly not sure that she really has a messed up worldview. There are multiple instances where it’s clear that she knows that she’s being mean or bad and just doesn’t care.

This brings us to the topic of damnation arcs. For something to be a damnation arc, a person has to be presented with a choice between good and evil and they have to choose evil. Zuko actually has one of these. At the end of the second season of Avatar, Zuko is given the choice to join the good guys or to join his sister and be accepted back into his family.

He chooses his sister.

That’s a damnation arc because Zuko truly had a chance to change sides. The scene would play very differently if Zuko had to choose between staying in exile and joining his sister. Joining his sister would still be the wrong move, but it’s no longer damnation. It’s just doing a bad thing vs doing nothing (though it can be argued to be somewhat damning since Zuko is going against his own morals). Along similar lines, Zuko is redeemed when he chooses to abandon his family to do what’s right even though it costs him everything he wanted: his family, his girlfriend, and his home.

This is where Chloe’s “damnation” and redemption arcs fall apart. There is no point in the series where she’s actively given a choice between good and evil. She only ever makes choices between inaction and evil or inaction and good. Does that make her a good person? Hell no! But it does make the argument that she had an arc fall very flat. She never gets better, but it's hard to say that she gets worse.

Chloe’s Choices: The Good and The Bad

Chloe becomes Queen Bee without anyone saying she was fit for the role. She just finds a miraculous and uses it. The way she uses it is selfish, egotistical, and petty. In other words, it’s just Chloe being Chloe. While the actions she takes are horrible and definitely deserve punishment, they’re in character. She’s not acting worse than normal, she’s just being herself, but with superpowers. If she’d been given the miraculous and been charged to be a hero, then her actions would be damning because she would be choosing to go against her charge. But she’s not. She has no charge.

To really assess if Chloe has potential to change, you have to look at what she does when she’s given the choice to be good and this is where things get messy.

This is how Chloe’s first encounter with her miraculous ends:

Ladybug: I have to get the Miraculous back, Chloé. (in the background, Nadja's van arrives) Chloé: Give me a second chance, please! Nadja: (holding a tablet with Audrey on it) Audrey Bourgeois, tell us live how you feel about what just happened. Audrey: (on the tablet) According to me, Chloé just clearly demonstrated that there is nothing exceptional about her. Cat Noir: (puts a hand on Chloé's shoulder) I know that you did the things you did to impress your mother. Ladybug: Anyone can make mistakes, even a superhero. What matters is how you fix them. I personally made one by losing that Miraculous. Don't make the mistake of not giving it back. Act like a hero. Cat Noir: And show everyone how exceptional you can be. (Chloé hands Ladybug the Miraculous) Ladybug: Thank you. Chloé: (the duo are about to run off) Ladybug? Cat Noir? (the cameraman moves closer) I'm sorry.

Chloe doesn't fight to keep her miraculous. A few quick lines are all it takes for her to hand it over. When Ladybug gives Chloe the chance to act like a hero would, Chloe acts like a hero. The same can be said of every subsequent time when Ladybug gives Chloe the bee miraculous. Every time Chloe is called upon to be Queen Bee, she does the job to the best of her abilities and acts as a functional member of the team. She's not incompetent. She doesn't put the team in danger so that she can be in the spotlight. Heck, the very next time she gets it, Chloe willingly admits that her father’s akumatization was her fault.

Chloé: It— it was me. I hurt my daddy's feelings. Because I want to leave Paris, forever. Ladybug: Because of what happened in school? I'm sure Marinette probably didn't exactly mean what she said. Chloé: Oh, it's not just her— actually, I don't even care about her— it's because I have no reason to be here: nobody likes me; I have no friends. I'm… useless. Ladybug: (remembering what Adrien told Marinette earlier at school about Chloé) A friend once told me: nobody is useless, Chloé. Chloé: It's easy for you to say that. You're Ladybug, a superhero. You serve a purpose. Ladybug: Yes, I can fix up all the messes. You said it yourself in your documentary. Chloé: (gasps) You saw it?! Ladybug: (nods) Mm-hmm. Chloé: Oh! I'm so embarrassed. That film's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I realize that now. Ladybug: Don't worry Chloé. You can fix your own messes, if that's what you want. You, too, can serve a purpose, but you have to want to. Chloé: (sniffles) I do want to.

When Ladybug asks Chloe to be a better person, Chloe is a better person.

This is why I say that Chloe has a perfectly functional view of the world. She knows when she’s doing something wrong and is able to do good when challenged to do so. Even on the civilian side, we see that Chloe is willing to be a little better when given the proper motivation. In Despair Bear, Adrien says he’ll end their friendship and so Chloe actively tries to save that friendship even if she hates every minute of it. Similarly, in Zombiezoo, Chloe sacrifices herself so that Ladybug can win.

Now, none of this is a redemption. It is, at best, the foundation for a redemption. We see that Chloe has the potential to be good when challenged to do so by the right person or circumstance, but she’s not trying to be better outside of those moments when she’s challenged. For her redemption to really start, she has to choose good over evil. She has to start improving when Ladybug isn’t watching or when Adrien isn’t threatening their friendship. For it to be a damnation, she has to choose evil over good.

She is never truly given that choice.

The two big scenes where Chloe gets “worse” are at the end of Queen Wasp and at the end of Hearthunter. However, in both of those scenes, no one gives her a choice to be better even though she’s primed and ready to make that choice.

Queen Wasp: When the Civilian Moment Should Have Happened

At the tail end of Queen Wasp, Marinette has the choice to go to New York with Audrey or stay in Paris. She chooses Paris, but brings Chloe with her to try and repair the relationship between mother and daughter. Here, Marinette gets to really see just how little Audrey cares for Chloe.

In a show where Chloe has a character arc, this should be the moment when she’s given a choice. She’s just spent the whole episode trying to get her mom to love her and it’s gone nowhere. Marinette, our hero, is standing right there, fully capable of saying, “You know what Chloe, your mom sucks and you don't need her validation. I know some people who already think that you're awesome. Come on, let’s get you back home and I’ll call Adrien and Sabrina to meet us there.”

Instead, this is what happens:

Marinette: I think you're wrong. A huge part of your life is here in Paris, too! (she steps aside, showing Chloé and Butler Jean) Audrey: Chlorene? Uh— Chloé? Chloé: (looks at her mother, then at Marinette in a guilty manner, then back at her mom) Why don't you love me, Mom? Audrey: But… Uh— Of course I l-l-love you. Marinette: (groans) You're also wrong about your daughter not being exceptional. In fact, Chloé is exceptionally mean. She's the worst person I've ever met. She may be more heinous, pompous and selfish than you. Compared to both of you, even a rock seems more capable of love. (Audrey and Chloé are furious with Marinette for telling mean things to them.) Chloé and Audrey: (shouting) How dare you⁈ (gasp and look surprised at each other) Marinette: See? You're both much more alike than you think. (walks off; humming)

…our hero, Ladies and Gentlemen.

I’m not saying that Chloe’s poor behavior is Marinette’s fault. Chloe’s choices are her own, but it’s hard to say, “why didn’t she change?” when even Ladybug doesn’t seem to want her to. If no one is actively encouraging Chloe whenever she does better, then it's 1000x harder for her to get better. Fake it til you make it is a huge part of self improvement. Being a better person for validation or selfish reasons often leads to meaningful change and is a legitimate way to start a self-driven redemption arc. (Go watch The Good Place if you want a prime example of this.)

Hearthunter: When the Hero Moment Should Have Happened

Hearthunter and Miracle Queen are supposedly the end of Chloe’s “damnation” arc. The moment where she makes the wrong choice and, to be clear, Chloe does the wrong thing here. Helping Hawkmoth is a bad move and she deserved to face some consequences. However, the choice to help Hawkmoth has the weirdest setup for a “damnation” arc that I’ve ever seen.

In Miraculer, we get this line from Gabriel: all I need is for [Chloe] to lose all hope in Ladybug. To become angry enough so I can akumatize her.

This is also the episode where Chloe rejects an akuma (Chloé: No, Hawk Moth! I am a superheroine! I am Queen Bee! Ladybug will come and get me when she needs me! I WILL NEVER JOIN YOU!), the episode where Lila helps manipulate Chloe into doubting Ladybug, and the episode where Ladybug tell’s Chloe that she’ll never be Queen Bee again, setting up the tension for the season final.

However, even though that tension is set, the thing that turns Chloe to the dark side is… her parents being akumatized. Not some random akuma that Chloe wants to help with. Not Hawkmoth just randomly showing up with the bee. No, we have both of Chloe's parents as the victim of the day and Ladybug actively chooses Ryuuko over Queen Bee, making Chloe the first and only hero who doesn’t get called in when a loved one is in trouble.

All of that leads to this:

Hawk Moth: Chloé Bourgeois, rejections hurt! (Chloé turns to face him) Your talents deserve to be recognized! Ladybug and Cat Noir's reign has gone on long enough. It's time for Paris to have a new queen, and the Queen Bee on my chessboard is you. Chloé: You've akumatized my parents! If I had my Miraculous I'd- Hawk Moth: (puts up his hand and interrupts) You're right, but I did it for one reason only. So that you would finally realize that Ladybug will never give you the Bee Miraculous again. I, however, always keep my promises. (shows her the Bee Miraculous in his hand) Chloé: This isn't real! How do you have it? Hawk Moth: Try it and see for yourself. You're Ladybug's greatest fan. You've helped her, you've trusted her, and what has she done for you in return? Chloé: (gets angry) Nothing! She couldn't care less about me! I'm done with her. She's irrelevant, utterly irrelevant! (reaches out to grap the Miraculous, stops) I want you to deakumatize has my parents first!

Just like with Queen Wasp, Chloe does the wrong thing. She didn’t have to take the bee. She didn't have to stay selfish, egotistical, and petty. But at the same time, this isn’t really a damning act. It's an act that makes her unsuitable to be Queen Bee again, but she wasn't going to be Queen Bee anyway. She wasn't choosing to be a villain over a hero. She was just choosing to be selfish at a time when she's been actively manipulated and when her parents are in danger.

In other words, this is just Chloe being Chloe. She’s acting the same way she did when she first got her miraculous. If no one is going to believe in her, then why should she be a better person? Why shouldn't she just stay the same? She's arguably no worse than she was in Queen Wasp, the consequences are just greater because of Hawkmoth's plan and the powers he gives her. The only real change is that she no longer idolizes Ladybug so Ladybug no longer has a chance to encourage Chloe to be a better person, but Ladybug never did that anyway, so what does it really matter?

Once again, none of this is to blame Marinette. She doesn't have to try and make her bully a better person. That's a huge ask. But with no one actively trying to make Chloe better even when she shows that she can be better when given the right motivation, it's silly to say that Chloe had a damnation arc or really any arc at all. She ended where she started and, if that's all they wanted to do with her, then they should have just left her as a one-dimensional mean girl instead of making her one of the most developed characters in this bloated mess of a show.

Personally, I would have liked to see a redemption arc because I enjoy morally grey characters and it would have been nice to have someone on the team who wasn't a kind, sweet, goody-goody (for a team with 18 freaking members, there's really no moral diversity, which is boring). It also would have stopped Chloe and Lila filling the same basic role for 3 seasons, which was stupid. (Why do you think Lila showed up so little? It's because Chloe could do almost everything she could do and do it better.) Second choice would be don't develop Chloe, leave her as a petty mean girl and give her focused screen time to Nino and Adrien. Their relationship is barely a thing and that's disappointing considering its strong setup. Cutting Lila and giving Chloe a true damnation arc would have also been far more satisfying.

At this point if someone told me that Lila/Cerise/whatever her real name is is a member of the Faceless Men from A Song of Ice and Fire or member of the Alpha Legion from Warhammer 40k I would believe it.

What's sad too is that all Marinette had ever done was talk about how smart and perfect and amazing Adrien is without the emotional payoff of actually getting to know him. It's why Gamer was my favorite episode of Season 1 (and likely the whole show) because their interactions were sweet and genuinely heart-fluttering for me. They talked like normal teenagers, the awkwardness between them didn't feel forced, and Marinette's parents actually felt real, embarrassing their daughter at every turn while she tries to talk to her crush.

But then as the seasons pile on, that died away, and the romance didn't feel earned at all. There was this constant underlying connotation that Marinette and Adrien will be endgame anyway, so the journey didn't matter, because that was always always going to be what they become.

I used to love their romance. The love square was amazing to me, it was (for me) a new concept of two people but with four faces, because I wanted to see how it was like for them to see the sides of each other's coins where the sun don't shine. It was actually one of the draws for me. But as the seasons went on, the romance began to feel forced. The point of a romance is to root for the characters, but you might as well have tattooed "ADRIENETTE 4EVER" on their foreheads.

TA said that the main genre was always romance, the main plot point was the romance. But in a story like MLB, with superpowers and secret identities, you can't hold onto the romance genre forever. You need to adapt and grow with the story. Just because the story derails for a moment to become action or mystery or whatever, it doesn't mean the romance disappears.

Unfortunately, that's not what happens, because every interaction from Season 2 onwards (gradually so) begins to feel like an attempt to convince us they're meant to be, without putting in the actual work. So when the switch happened mid-Season 4, I was honestly disgusted, because it didn't feel earned. I wanted to see more of Adrien genuinely struggling with his feelings for Marinette, or Marinette realizing that maybe she might like Cat Noir more than Adrien after all.

I would've liked to see how their relationships survive the overarching plot and how it shapes them, to see the changes and the realizations, and then looking at the end product that finally finished running through the wringer.

Do you think Marinette really loves Adrien or does she loves the idea of him in her head?

Idk but I'm agree with Alya in Elation that you can't really love someone you don't know and Marinette arguably know Adrien only on surface level, either from the magazines or stalking him. We never got a scene where they talk together to get to know each other and then BAM! They just get together.

I also feels like Adrien's love for Marinette also more a rebound than anything. The writers can say anything they want, that Adrien fell in love with Marinette in Pupeteer2. But you don't develop feelings for someone you barely know, especially when in that said episode Adrien still think Marinette hate him. It's just weird. But again, idk, maybe it just me because I don't catch feelings to someone I barely talk to. That's just creepy AF no offense.

It's really hard to say because canon is all over the place when it comes to how close Adrien and Marinette are. Season three and four make them feel like little more than acquaintances, but if you think back to seasons one and two, they legitimately were friends.

Adrien turned to Marinette for dating advice (Frozer). Marinette and Adrien gamed for hours to prepare for a tournament (Gamer). Marinette and Adrien went to a party with their friends and danced together (Despair Bear). Marinette, Adrien, and their friends worked together to make a movie (Horrificator). I could go on, but the general gist is that it feels disingenuous to say that they barely interact. They interact a lot! It's just limited to the first two seasons.

I scanned through the episode list while writing this and seasons one and two have them interact in a meaningful way in about half of the episodes while seasons three and four got distracted by the new love interests, Lila, and the awful broken Ladynoir dynamic, dramatically cutting back on the Adrinette content to the show's detriment.

The other issue is that Marinette's crush is written more and more like a celebrity crush as the seasons go on, making it feel less and less genuine. So it's understandable to feel like she doesn't really love Adrien given how the show presents her, but if you tone down the crush to a non-comedic level, it does feel earned to me and I am also the kind of person that needs to know someone before developing feelings. Celebrity crushes and instant love are things I rarely enjoy in media probably at least in part because I'm ace.

I actually didn't get truly invested in the love square until Origins showed us why they first developed feelings. There's a reason I treat that episode as the golden standard for characterization. It's some of the best writing Miraculous has ever done. The writers crammed an impressive amount of content into 40 minutes and elevated the silly teen crushes into something with real substance. I will forever be sad that the rest of the show falls so short of that episode.

Moving on!

The Puppeteer 2 thing feels like a bad joke and it might be? It's hard to tell given how weird this show can get with its humor. Either way, it would have made a lot more sense and been much cuter if Adrien fell for Marinette when she unknowingly confessed her crush to him Glaciator 2 instead of falling for her after she accidentally forces a kiss on him during a prank gone wrong.

As for the rebound element... yeah, I don't disagree. Everything about the reverse crush was just weird because Ladybug falling for Chat Noir felt way more honest and earned than Adrien falling for Marinette given the way seasons five plays. I mean, the episode right before the reverse saw Ladynoir get married and have children, but Adrien is the one whose feelings are true and Marinette is the one having a rebound? Sure, writers. Sure.

If the reverse had happened right off of the season four finale, though? Then that actually could have worked. In those episodes, Marinette supported Adrien while their friends were oblivious to his true feelings, Adrien finally saw just how much pressure Ladybug was under, and Chat Noir supported Ladybug unconditionally in her darkest hour. I'm personally not a fan of the crushes switching mid-show, but I'd be lying if I said that wasn't a solid setup to lead into it. Adrienette and Ladynoir had never felt closer.

I think it's fair to say that this is why Miraculous is such a complex show for a lot of fans. It has truly spectacular setups, but the payoff always seems to fall flat on its face.

I mean, Adrien didn't always fuck around. In Season 1 (the best season in my opinion) he still got the job done. The most goofing he did was making cat puns and joking about the situation, but he was always dependable and still helped save the day.

It's just that later on, they decimated his personality more and more until he's more comic relief than an actual hero who's meant to learn and grow.

You probably know better about the show making it seem like he's doing Ladybug a favor by screwimg up so she could focus; I had always thought Adrien's character just got degraded to a shadow of is former self. But if that's true, that they're trying to sell a narrative that Adrien being so unserious and a complete goofball in serious moments somehow helps Marinette, well.... I guess the show is more messed-up than I thought in trying to sell narratives.

And unfortunately, they can't just write him off like that. I don't want Adrien to get written off, but at this point, it's hard to believe the show will even improve him at all. After all, it's Thomas Astruc, and he's basically admitted that Adrien is a prize made for Marinette.

The show itself seems to impliy that Adrien's only useful if his repress his personality. Like they really wanted to kill the true selves theory, but honestly i think I prefer that over this.

I really don’t know what they were thinking making it so Adrien is consistently coddled out of making any changes that would improve his performance as a hero

I’m sorry but I’m just not buying into the idea that letting him fuck around to his heart’s content is in any way better than expecting him to control himself a little and do a better job

Because, iirc, they’ve showed us on at least two occasions that he can be focused and efficient if he wanted to, he just repeatedly chooses not to. Not only that, they also try to make it seem like he’s doing maribug a favor by regularly messing up fights bc otherwise she’d be too busy swooning to focus herself.

Get for fucking real

If he’s not gonna shape up, he should ship out

Write him off and replace him with someone that cares

Now? Well, this is the current list of characters with a messed up home life: Kagami, Zoe, Chloe, Adrien, Felix, Luka, Juleka, and probably Lila. Add in Rose's serious illness, Mylene's mother abandoning her, and Marinette's traumatic past dealing with a straight up hate campaign on top of all the trauma introduced over the course of canon and I just don't care anymore. I am drained dry. They have introduced way too many serious elements without exploring any of them in depth and that is a massive writing faux pas.

Should really say something about Fairy Tail then. Natsu, Erza, Gray, Lucy, and so many other characters all had a tragic backstory one way or another, but one: they all varied in weight and depth; and two: they were all given their dues to be explored and to add substance to the characters, while also making sure it stays relevant throughout the story even if the arc is finished.

Natsu lost his only family when he was young, Igneel, and it added substance to his persistent philosophy of family; Gray lost his only mentor and pseudo-parent, Ur, and it's shown through how he uses his magic, and his tragic backstory is explored later on; Lucy lost her mother and later lived a neglected and miserable home life (sound familiar?) and while it's not shown in much of her life, her love for her mother is shown with how she literally writes letters to her and how she treats her spirits, and her family issues are also explored later on; and Erza, who was kidnapped and endured all sorts of horrific abuse in the Tower of Heaven before escaping, showed how that experience shaped her in her manner and her artificial eye, while also having her backstory also explored later on.

And there's so much more of them in Fairy Tail, in different guilds and different people that also vary in the stakes involved. Jellal, Oracion Seis, Loke, Mavis, Lyon, Ultear, and more. Their backstories are even mentioned in passing, even if it's not surrounding the trauma in general but memories related to said issues.

Goes to show that having multiple characters with different tragic backstories isn't inherently bad from a story perspective—if you do it right. The problem is that a majority of their "tragic backstories" are mentioned once and never talked about again. The Couffaine twins, Rose, Mylene, and Marinette all got a feature episode, and then go bye-bye afterwards. It never impacts their daily lives, or how it impacts their lives afterwards.

Others—like Kagami, Adrien, Felix, Chloe, and Zoe (iffy on this one)—might get the multiple-parter specials, but it's either mentioned in one episode, gets dropped for several more, and then mentioned in a later one as if they've been telling us about it the whole time; or it gets banged out in a row and never mentioned again. In the end, there's no build-up, no proper exploration, no lasting impressions; the "traumas" are just used for plot or excuse their behaviors (unless you're Chloe 'cause God forbid she ever had anything bad happen to her that she didn't deserve.)

I highly doubt any of these will ever be focused on in Season 6, because TA wants us to focus primarily on Marinette and her life; and to explore anybody else's trauma or tragic backstory, the camera needs to focus on them. But it likely won't, since anything that has to do with other characters has to do with how it impacts Marinette.

Do you think they should have made Colt a good father to Felix? Or are you fine with him being a bad father?

I don't think that Colt should have been anything. He died off screen before we even met Felix and Felix is a minor character. Why is he getting more backstory development than Kagami when Tomoe is alive and actively involved in the plot? Wouldn't it have been far more interesting if the play was her story?

But if we must include the mustachioed cowboy man, then I would make him a good father or, at the very least, a mediocre one. I'd do this for reasons that have nothing to do with me wanting Felix to have a happy childhood. I'm fine with him having a tragic past! The problem is that this is a story and, in terms of story telling, there is no reason to give him a tragic past. It adds nothing to the story. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that it detracts from the story, but we'll get to that in a minute. First let's go over why it's a pointless addition.

In his titular episode, Felix is a brat who tries to destroy Adrien's life. Those actions actually made more sense when we thought that Felix loved Colt and was acting out over Adrien not coming to Colt's funeral. Now that we know the full story, we're left asking, "Okay, so, why did Felix do any of that?" And don't say that it was to help him get the ring because it didn't help him get the ring. He got it from hugging his uncle and there were far simpler ways to get a hug.

And why did Felix even want the ring? That has yet to be explained because, in Strikeback, he was planning to go out of the country as "Adrien" without ever offering to exchange the ring. He simply stole the fake peacock and got out of dodge. He had no possible way to know that Ladybug would come to him for help, allowing him to offer up the miraculous and use the ring to sweeten the pot. I also don't believe for one second that he needed to sweeten the pot. He could have offered up the miraculous and nothing else and Gabriel would have gone for it. So once again, what was the plan with the ring, Felix? What was the plan?

While we're on the topic of Felix getting the peacock, Colt being abusive adds nothing to that plot either. Whoever has the peacock can snap any sentimonster out of existence. Felix could have the best damn childhood on the planet and it would still make perfect sense for him to want the peacock!

The only reason to make Colt abusive is if you want to explore that and use it to develop Felix's character, but I have absolutely no faith that they're going to do that. Colt is the Jagged Stone nonsense all over again. They're introducing a very serious issue that would dramatically affect the psyche of most people and then acting like it's no big deal. I think I saw someone say that Colt was only introduced to shut up the people calling Gabriel and Emilie abusive by showing us "real" child abuse as if abuse was an Olympic sport and you need to qualify for the team. I'd buy that theory, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

Even if I'm wrong and they are going to explore Felix's trauma, I still think it's a bad move. There's a thing called compassion fatigue. It's commonly experienced by health care workers who deal with traumatic cases day in and day out, resulting in thing like the inability to feel compassion for your patients because your compassion meter has been rung dry. You can experience a lesser form of this just from watching the news. Story after story of people in need to the point that you're desensitization to these events evoking horror or sorrow.

When you're telling a story, you need to keep this phenomena in mind and be very careful when introducing multiple sources of trauma. The more trauma you introduce and the quicker you introduce it, the less impactful that trauma will be for your readers. If you're a good writer, then it will also be less impactful for your characters. Allow me to explain with a quick example.

I had a brief Marvel phase and, while I never wrote anything for that fandom, I made up a few stories in my head. A lot of them revolved around my favorite character, Tony Stark (aka Iron Man). Tony becomes Iron Man after being kidnapped by terrorists and I love confessions of traumatic backstories, so I was working out how to do one for him and the Avengers to help bond the team. Then I realized that his teammates are all orphans and that the majority of them were raised in poverty. Most of them have also gone through scientific experimentation of some sort and not all of it was voluntary. In other words, in the world of the Avengers, Tony's trauma isn't really special. His team might sympathize with him, but they wouldn't be deeply impacted by his story the way I wanted them to be because most of them have gone through equal or worse trauma.

Circling back to Miraculous: they keep heaping trauma on these kids and it's a terrible move. When Adrien was the only character with a messed up home life, things were interesting.

Now? Well, this is the current list of characters with a messed up home life: Kagami, Zoe, Chloe, Adrien, Felix, Luka, Juleka, and probably Lila. Add in Rose's serious illness, Mylene's mother abandoning her, and Marinette's traumatic past dealing with a straight up hate campaign on top of all the trauma introduced over the course of canon and I just don't care anymore. I am drained dry. They have introduced way too many serious elements without exploring any of them in depth and that is a massive writing faux pas.

Generally speaking, when telling stories, you should default your characters to whatever a happy home life is in their universe unless you're going to do something with the non-happy home life. Non-happy home lives complicate stories and you don't want to introduce a complication if you're never going to explore it. This is why I think that Colt should have been at least a decent parent. It's also why you'll see me say that Emilie should be at least a semi decent parent even though canon has made that option impossible unless you ignore a lot of the unpleasant implications found in Adrien's backstory.

While I love evil villain couples, Emilie is in a coma, so she can't be Gabriel's co-conspirator and I personally have no interest in her waking up to start a new villain arc. When she wakes up (or finally dies), the Agreste's story is over and so she basically has to be nonthreatening for that ending to work. It also circles back to the issue of keeping the trauma tight and focused so that the trauma you do include really pops!

Reminder that the above is a discussion of story telling, not a commentary on what makes real people interesting or the commonality of home life issues. There's also nuance I didn't get into because this was already really long. Writing trauma well is a really fascinating and complex topic.

I remember something that somebody mentioned to me here, which was when I was questioning the whole "senti-Adrien" thing, and why Emilie and Gabriel never considered IVF or adoption. After all, Emilie was toted as an angel, so pretty sure biological connection shouldn't matter.

What they told me was that there wasn't much to Emilie anyway. Sure, she was represented as kind, but there was next to nothing else besides that. She was practically a blank slate, so unfortunately, there was nothing to contradict her.

Which, in a show that also toted family love as one of its strongest values, is sad when the LITERAL DRIVING POINT to the whole story has next to nothing going for her.

Wondering about how much of Adrien is real seems to be the tip of the "Astruc didn't think things through" iceberg. How much of any senti-person is genuine? Does Tomoe only think Kagami can't draw because she cannot? Is Felix an ass because Colt Fathom was?

(Post this ask was in reference to)

I'm always wary of laying all of the blame at any one person's feet without hard evidence that this is only their fault since there's a core writing team and pretty much every episode has multiple credited writers. Add in the fact that many other people are also directly and indirectly involved in the writing process and it becomes real hard to point fingers from the outside, which is why I tend to generally wave at the whole crew under the banner of "writers". Other than that issue, I agree with you. It seems like everyone involved either didn't think the idea through very well or they thought it was a kids show, so the horrifying implications didn't matter.

I never know what a kid will pick up on and Miraculous' target demographic is pretty young, so this may indeed be something that flies over most kids heads. It's still not a risk that I would take, though, and I'm baffled as to why they even did it.

This isn't supposed to be a super dark show, so you generally want to avoid including dark elements unless they're absolutely vital because why risk upsetting your audience when you don't need to? And the writers really didn't need to. They went the "Emilie had no idea that the peacock would kill her" route and, once you go that route, you don't need to give her a complex motivation for using the peacock. Complexity is only required if she knew that using it would kill her. And even if they did go the "she knew" route, they still picked a terrible motivation! If your infertility is effecting you so badly that you're willing to die to get a baby, then you don't need a magic baby. You need mental health support because you are in a very dark place.

I figured it might've been like that, but it's still frustrating nonetheless. It doesn't feel fair to Luka and Kagami at all, to have just been a means to an end like that. They could've been real meaningful characters that helped add substance to their characters and relationships.

I think Lukanette and Adrigami happened around a time that Ladybug and Cat Noir were having issues in their partnership, so it would've been good to use Kagami and Luka as a way to gain perspective and help shape their emotions towards each other.

Since S3 was tension time between the two leads, the obstacle ships could've been what helped them gain perspective. The two weren't on the same wavelength anymore, and because of the strain of their superhero partnership, they ended up finding comfort in people in their civilian lives, i.e Luka and Kagami.

From a writing perspective, exploring their feelings in relationships with other people would give a bigger pay-off for the future Adrienette ship, since they would've been able to mature and understand what they needed from each other.

Luka was a calming presence to Marinette that helped her from the helter-skelter life of a superhero, and slowly, she could've started thinking less and less of Adrien romantically. Because of that, it made Marinette realize that while she'd had a crazy crush on Adrien, Luka gave her something that made her feel safe and comforted, especially when she was dealing with some heavy issues with Cat Noir.

Same with Adrien. He was lonely and frustrated from the constant rejection, and ended up gelling with Kagami, who could relate to the loneliness and feeling like an outsider. It would've been technically trauma-bonding, but they wouldn't know that. Regardless, Adrien felt supported and was able to find comfort in knowing Kagami was there for him, despite the Ladybug issue.

Their interactions with their relationships would've also given us a good look on how these two would function in a relationship, how they balanced love and priorities, and also their weaknesses in maintaining not just friendships, ordinary life, and superhero life, but also romances. It might even give us a whole new perspective on how their love lives also impact their partnerships.

And of course, the pairs would have to break up eventually, but the breakups would be significant too.

Luka and Marinette broke up because Marinette had too many secrets and she couldn't hold onto both that and Luka, so cue bandaid rip. She could've realized the sacrifices she had to make to be a superhero, and therefore, couldn't bear the thought of another relationship later on while Hawkmoth was active. (I think this thought process was in the show, so hooray?)

Adrien and Kagami's breakup was a little less understanding, but it could've impacted the future as well. Since Kagami felt like she couldn't trust Adrien due to all his secrets, maybe Adrien blamed himself for being unable to balance it all, and it could shape him into thinking maybe it was his fault for thinking he could do it.

Either way, these would've had a significant impact on Adrienette and Ladynoir that made their relationship even more meaningful. And at least Kagami and Luka weren't treated as used pieces of tissue.

It just felt so unfair, that they'd get together at the end of S3, only to break up in episodes 1 and 2 in S4, when these could've been used to add depth to their characters and relationship.

I was just thinking about the thing with Lukanette and Adrigami, and I was wondering: what made Luka and Kagami like Adrien and Marinette anyway?

Luka and Marinette have next to nothing in common, as far as I know, and even though you don't always need common hobbies to date, what did either have going for them that they were even attracted to each other? Especially when Marinette was obsessed with Adrien.

And Kagami.... I don't know. She gets akumatized in one episode, and then the next she has a crush on him? It's the same question, what really did Kagami or Adrien have going for them that they even started dating in the first place? Trauma? Especially since Adrien was apparently in love with Ladybug.

Maybe I'm just missing some things, but as far as I saw, neither couples had anything to even INDICATE they would start dating, besides proximity, I guess. I mean, Kagami and Adrien sounded more trauma-bonded ngl

As far as I can tell, the writers said, "we need more padding, let's make a non-threatening love triangle" and the crushes came to be. There's not really anything in canon to make these couples feel meaningful and that's on purpose. You're not supposed to ship Lukanette or Adrigami. They are just obstacles for the love square.

I like Luka and Kagami, but I never viewed them as true love interest who were designed around Marinette and Adrien. It was glaringly obvious that they weren't real competition. That's why their relationships with the leads are just a cheap cliffhanger to make people tune in to season four. You weren't supposed to think that these relationships had a chance. It was supposed to make you ask, "but how will the love square get together now???"

I will say that it's super annoying that Kagami and Marinette get to fight over Adrien while Luka and Adrien never get anything like that. I get that it's just a factor of which sides the crushes are on, but I am so tired of women fighting over men in media aimed at women! The entire draw of the love square is that it's all the fun of a love triangle without any of the awkward "who wins?" issues and the writers went and ruined that by adding love triangles on top of the square. Why???? Come up with better padding! Please!

Literally makes no sense. How could LADYBUG convince FELIX to trust humans. I heard that Felix learned of Ladybug's identity: Marinette, a happy girl who had no struggles in her life growing up (Derision don't count nor is it enough) and had a great support system. AS IF he'd listen to her!

And if he DIDN'T know Ladybug's identity, that would be even worse. It basically makes her a stranger who has been getting in his way.

"oH, BuT sHe HeLpEd HiM!" BS. Their partnership would be tenuous at most, brittle at best.

If anything, the ones who would've had even a CENTIMETER of convincing Felix would be Adrien and Kagami, because:

1. They can relate to him as senti-kids who were dealt a bad hand.

2. The 2 have a relationship/history with him, so their words would have more weight.

Hell, even CHLOE would have a better shot than Marinette! At least SHE knows him and knows what it's like to be dealt a horrible hand.

Apparently someone asked Astruc why is Felix in the team at the end of Season 5, and Astruc responded that is because Ladybug made him trust humans now. Any thoughts?

Mostly just total confusion. When and how did Ladybug make him trust humans? This is up there with Lila learning Gabriel's secret by reading Nathalie's lips in the season four final. Just an absolutely wild statement that no one is going to get from the actual text. I honestly thought Felix changed sides because of Kagami.