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2 years ago

About Arya: I think the North is used to unladylike ladies like Mormonts, Lyanna herself, Meera, etc... I think they don't see her as odd.

I do firmly agree that Arya's somewhat wilder nature would have not been considered an unfamiliar madness in the North.

But she is still unusual.

Lyanna is only widely known to have been mad for horses. Not so very different from an accomplished rider like Margaery Tyrell. Lyanna must have had some kind of training with the jousting lance in order to be the Knight of the Laughing Tree, but not so much as for it to be a well known fact about her, and she is also not generally described as a tomboy. She would presumably have been more comfortable wearing dresses or washing her face or brushing her hair than Arya is. Those are the truly unusual things about Arya: the messiness and lack of care in her dress. Arya rejects almost all the feminine aspects of her social role, that is what has her standing out.

Even someone like Dacey Mormont is noted by Catelyn to be just as comfortable in a dress and dancing as she is fighting in chainmail.

I would caution against the idea that Northern women in general are somehow different from Southern ones. They have a bit more variety in some places that belong to the North, but as a rule, they would be very similar in their social roles. Meera as a crannogwoman and the Mormont ladies are still a noted exception to the "regular" Northern women, who are not known for taking up “masculine” activities like fighting (like Sybelle Glover or Donella Hornwood or Alys Karstark or Barbrey Ryswell or the Manderly girls or the former Lady Bolton).


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1 year ago

Do you think that grrm meant Lyanna to parallel with Helen of troy?

With Rhagar being obsessed with prophecy which compelled him to "steal" Lyanna it seems very similar to Paris and Helens relationship, especially with the starting of a war and Robert ( who in this case is both Agamemnon and Menelaus- with cersie killing him and all)

it does not align perfectly but with Sansa's own connection with the whole little finger pomegranate = underworld thing it creates a very interesting contrast as both Pesephone and Helen are considered the daughters of Zeus.

I am sorry if this does not make much sense english is my second language and I very much enjoy your metas!

Hi anon!

(Please don't apologize, and thank you so much!)

I do think that GRRM is very intentionally creating literary and mythological and biblical parallels all over the the book series, and some are more overt than others. It's all about storytelling as a larger theme within the series, as history, romanticized legends, fiction, even outright lies.

Lyanna as Helen is certainly one such allusion, and it works beautifully with how romanticized the story is on all sides - obfuscating the much rougher, political truth beneath.

Other allusions include Agamemnon and Iphigenia in various father daughter relationships, chiefly Stannis and Shireen (but also Ned and Sansa). Or Persephone and Hades, as you mention. Sansa and Littlefinger create an obvious reference to the concept of a stolen daughter, while Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart and Arya reflect other aspects of the story, the maternal figure turned wrathful, the daughter who must return from the underworld to give her peace. The connection to the seasons obviously suggests that there may be an even larger reference at play to the Long Night, some forgotten tale of theft and grief and wrath.

GRRM has also directly referenced his admiration for the confrontation between Hector and Achilles, to illustrate his "the villain is the hero of the other side" approach to conflict.

Basically, when in doubt it's not unlikely that a recognizable parallel is intentional. It may just be a passing nod to similar themes, as opposed to a blueprint for an exact copy of the plot, but in many cases he seems to want us to keep these ancient stories in mind.


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