LOL The Gurus Are Losing It In The Tags.

LOL the gurus are losing it in the tags.

i’ve made a mistake of going into the tags and saw jalsas claiming that dany wouldn’t like jon bc he isn’t attractive. please explain to me how canonically gorgeous rhaegar and canonically gorgeous lyanna produced an ‘unattractive’ jon, that’s not how genetics work.

The Parallels between Jon & Daenerys and Aemon & Naerys

The parallels of Aemon the Dragonknight and Naerys Targaryen strongly parallel that of Daenerys and Jon Snow, and may suggest what will become of their future relationship in the books. 

Daenerys and Naerys

Physical Appearance

Daenerys is often suggested to look like Queen Naerys. George RR Martin gave a series of descriptions for the previous Targaryens, found in Westeros.org.  

 “She was a wisp of a woman, smaller even than Dany (to whom she bears a certain resemblence), very slender, with big purple eyes and fine, pale, porcelain skin, near translucent.”- So Spake Martin (Naerys Targaryen)

“She’s too skinny,” Viserys said….. “And stand up straight. Let him see you have breasts. Gods know, you have little enough as it is.” - Daenerys I, AGOT

From these passages we can see that George himself likened Naerys to Dany (there is nothing in the novels that I can find where characters directly parallel the two). Both are described as slender with the typical Valyrian silver-gold hair and purple eyes. Now, obviously most of the Targaryen women share these traits, however I think it is worth noting that this specific parallel was drawn. Dany is also noted to be stronger than Naerys was. 

Family 

Aegon IV is paralleled to Viserys - both men covet their sisters and desire to marry them. Of course, only Aegon succeeded. But both of them have little regard for their sister’s happiness and wellbeing. 

Naerys: “I have done my duty by you, and given you an heir. I beg you, let us live henceforth as brother and sister.” Aegon: “That is what we are doing.” - A World of Ice and Fire

The greed of both men are incredibly similar, in both their want for their sisters, and for wealth and the crown. It can also pointed out that both are given negative nicknames, such as Aegon ‘The Unworthy’ and Viserys ‘The Beggar King’. 

There is also a physical resemblance between Aegon and Illyrio Mopatis who also had a hand in Daenerys’ marriage. 

Jon and Aemon the Dragonknight

Jon’s Connection to Aemon

Jon Snow has already met a Targaryen - Aemon, maester of the Night’s Watch, who was named for the Dragonknight. From there, the seeds of Aemon have been planted. First of all the speculation that his Targaryen name will be Aemon. Here’s a cool post that has convinced me that his name will be Aemon. But there is also more! In ASOS Jon remembers his playfights with Robb. They would call out the names of different heroes. 

Robb called himself King Daeron I - known as the Boy King, just as Robb was known as the Boy/Young Wolf. Both these men died young, on campaign. Florian the Fool was also mentioned, and while the legend isn’t as similar, Robb is also remarked as foolish for falling in love. We now can see that some similarities can be drawn from this play battle. If parallels between Robb’s (now ended) life, it can be assumed that there could be parallels for Jon as well. Jon proclaims himself Lord of Winterfell, to which Robb replies he can’t because he is a bastard. Jon is offered the chance to be Lord of Winterfell by Stannis, which he refuses. This could be the parallel however I think it may allude to a later point in the Winds of Winter. Jon also calls out he is Aemon the Dragonknight. With this other assumptions, it is clear there is probably symbolism within this scene, therefore Jon’s parallels to Aemon are strengthened. 

There is also the matter of the orders that they joined. Aemon joined the Kingsguard, a celibate order, just as Jon joined the celibate Night’s Watch. The Kingsguard were also widely respected at the time, and wear white cloaks. When Jon joined the NW, it was a place for criminals, all dressed in black. 

Family and Marriage

Aemon was reported to have loved Naerys Targaryen, and quarreled with her husband Aegon during the wedding. This can be paralleled with Jon Snow and ‘Arya’. Jon undoubtedly loves Arya the most out of his siblings, and there is undertones of romance, which many Jonrya blogs could show you. Jon also was furious when he believed ‘Arya’ was getting married to Ramsay Bolton. 

“His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton’s throat as easily.” - Jon VI, ADWD

Jon may not have been present at the wedding, but his displeasure at the marriage is very clear. But we also have Daenerys’ parallels to Naerys and Aegon’s wedding as well in her wedding to Khal Drogo. 

This was an unwanted wedding for both women, with Naerys crying during the bedding, just as Daenerys did …When he turned to look at her, she began to cry. Khal Drogo stared at her tears, his face strangely empty of expression. “No,” he said. - Daenerys II, AGOT

But we see that actually this situation (while obviously still rape, I in no way support Dany x Drogos relationship) improves somewhat for Dany, while Naerys suffers abuse until her death. 

What It Means For The Future

We now have more interesting deviations in our hands. GRRM has noted that Dany is stronger than Naerys - she escapes her abusive brother, her marriage, and has agency. Jon as well, a bastard who is part of an order that is a glorified prison colony, compared to legitimate Aemon, of the great Kingsguard. 

These opposites most likely suggest that Jon and Daenerys will have happier lives together while Aemon and Naerys died young, without each other. Aemon and Naerys were a tragedy, and perhaps Jon and Daenerys will be a subversion of their story. 

you know how to make a girl fall in love with you

you have a deep conversation about the dynamic of jon snow and daenerys and how they are twin flames connected by a red thread. their stories are interwoven. they were interwoven even before their conception. they are destined for each other.

art by @laurellerual (love your art girlie)

Do you think D&D Jon act in character or out of character by rebuffing Dany for good because of their relation? I read somewhere there were some uncle-niece marriages in the Stark ancestry, so I don’t know how icky it is for people in the North.

Anon, I love this question. Yes, absolutely! Jon’s repulsion to aunt incest is a bit too modern, if you ask me. Wish the writers, too, understood that he lives in Westeros, not on fucking Earth.

First of all, let’s take a look at what incest actually means in Westeros, according to the wiki:

“The two main religions practiced in the Seven Kingdoms, the Faith of the Seven and the old gods, consider incest to be a vile sin. However in Westeros incest is only applied if father lays with daughter, mother lays with son, or brother to sister, and the children of such unions are considered abominations.”

No mention of aunt and nephew. Further:

“In marriage customs, it is acceptable and in fact quite common among the nobility for cousins to wed. Examples include Tywin and Joanna Lannister (first cousins), and Rickard and Lyarra Stark (first cousins once removed).”

(For those who don’t know, those are Ned’s parents)

So, House Stark is down with cousin marriage, as well as almost-cousin-marriage in present day:

“A marriage has been proposed between Robert Arryn and Sansa Stark (first cousins), to which the degree of common ancestry was not an objection.”

And we get a little more info on incest within House Stark:

“The views regarding marriages between an uncle and a niece (or an aunt to a nephew) might differ between the Faith and the old gods. Although the High Septon protested against a possible marriage between Prince Maegor Targaryen and his niece Rhaena, in the north, Serena Stark had been wed to her half-uncle, Edric, while her sister Sansa Stark had been wed to her half-uncle Jonnel Stark. The only exception to condemnation of incest in Westeros is when it occurs in House Targaryen.”

Whether or not Jon grew up in the north, he’s still a Targaryen - whose royal incestuous marriages were a part of his lineage:

“In the Valyrian Freehold, it was custom among the dragonlords to marry brother to sister, or, if that was not possible, an uncle to a niece, or an aunt to a nephew.”

And considering that the only people to ride dragons in GoT were both Targaryens, this idea that “The line must be kept pure”, the implication here is that dragonriders must preserve their magical blood by doubling up on it.

All of that aside…

It appears that the foreshadowing involving Daenerys overcoming the Mirri Maz Duur ‘curse’ was all for nought, anyway. So then, if Daenerys really is infertile and cannot bear children, then what exactly makes it so gross or appalling? If there is no threat of ‘deformed’ or ‘mad’ children?

And speaking of foreshadowing, the fuck was this shit about?:

The fuck were lines like this all about?:

“Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him.”

Why do we get so much information about incest, specifically Targaryen incest, such as “the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, which permitted incestuous marriages for Targaryens, as the Gods had made Valyrians differently from the Andals.” - which went on to become an official tenet of the Faith of the Seven - if it never comes into play?

“Foreshadowing? I don’t know her.”

TL;DR:

Jon’s Stark side of the family practices incest (albeit to a very slightly lesser degree, but incest all the same).

Jon’s Targaryen side has been marrying brother to sister or aunt to nephew for thousands of years.

Targaryen incest is excused by a tenet of the largest religion in Westeros - the one practiced in King’s Landing, in which Daenerys intended to rule.

While Jon’s religion, the old gods, view incest as vile, it is specifically stated that it means parent/child or sibling incest, whereas aunt/nephew marriage seems to be excluded.

ASOIAF'S RULE OF THREE

The two times a Stark-Targaryen marriage was alluded

This we do know: Cregan Stark and Jacaerys Velaryon reached an accord, and signed and sealed the agreement that Grand Maester Munkun calls “the Pact of Ice and Fire” in his True Telling. Like many such pacts, it was to be sealed with a marriage. Lord Cregan’s son, Rickon, was a year old. Prince Jacaerys was as yet unmarried and childless, but it was assumed that he would sire children of his own once his mother sat the Iron Throne. Under the terms of the pact, the prince’s firstborn daughter would be sent north at the age of seven, to be fostered at Winterfell until such time as she was old enough to marry Lord Cregan’s heir. [Fire and Blood]

"MY LORDS!" he shouted, his voice booming off the rafters. "Here is what I say to these two kings!" He spat. "Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine, from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? What do they know of the Wall or the wolfswood or the barrows of the First Men? Even their gods are wrong. The Others take the Lannisters too, I've had a bellyful of them." He reached back over his shoulder and drew his immense two-handed greatsword. "Why shouldn't we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead!" He pointed at Robb with the blade. "There sits the only king I mean to bow my knee to, m'lords," he thundered. "The King in the North!" [Catelyn XI, AGOT]

... and the time such a marriage will come to fruition 😏

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . [Daenerys IV, ACOK]

Hot take: Dany’s “dragons plant no trees” is not paralleling her fathers “let him be the king of ashes,” but Jon’s “kill the boy and let the man be born.” 

The two of them have always had parallel arcs. In Dance With Dragons, they were faced with seemingly impossible leadership decisions in while dealing with a ton of resistance, whether it was Dany trying to eliminate slavery in a place where everything revolved around it or Jon trying to fix a Nights Watch that is no longer fit for purpose right before a second Long Night. They both tried compromise and it ended with chaos, and they both hit bottom at the same time (Dany in exile in the Dothraki Sea with only Drogon and Jon stabbed and most likely clinging to life by warging into Ghost.) They will almost certainly both be fiercer and willing to go to greater lengths in pursuit of what they think is right in Winds (if that ever comes out which lol.) Jon will come into his own as a wolf and Dany as a dragon.

(That isn’t to say no one parallels Aerys btw; it’s just that GRRM has beaten us over the head with the fact that it’s Cersei)