Except Canonically There's No Love Between Jon & Sansa,not Even Platonic Because They Distant Siblings

Except canonically there's no love between Jon & sansa,not even platonic because they distant siblings practically estranged with really nothing in common.And even in the context of the terrible adaptation that is GoT,Jon is basically forced to fill in the shoes of Ned & Robb as the head because he's the eldest member of the Starks alive after their deaths,hence why the show compares and parallels Jon to Ned,trying to make him into his clone only to fail miserably by making Jon worse.Yet in GoT,Jon's concern and care for sansa (despite dumb & dumber giving sansa Jeyne's trauma for "character development") is not returned and it's one-sided on sansa's side since sansa shows and proves time and time again she never truly loved Jon or cared about him or desired to protect him or even actually try to as she moving in a way that is the exact opposite with all of her other siblings too.Literally everything sansa has say and done in the show and the books has only really been selfish in service of serving her own interests with no regard for her so called family/dear loved ones.Sansa getting so many of the Northmen killed in the battle of the bastards,especially using Rickon to trick,manipulate,gaslight and guilt-trip Jon to fight in it (which is the begining of sansa's pattern of constantly risking his life and the rest of the Starklings until the very end of the finale of the show,even plotting to kill their own little sister Arya who even the actor of bran and the show writers favored towards the actress of sansa revealed and confirmed the suspicion) to only for her to be the reason their own innocent youngest brother Rickon to die without even showing any guilt, remorse,or mourning him at least just to get credit (like the actress confirmed) for "gEtTiNg BaCk ThE nOrTh WhIcH iS tHeIrS" when many if not most fighting in the battle of bastards against Ramsey Bolton died.Not to mention if sansa was truly "tHe SmArTeSt PeRsOn EvEr" (according to Arya being used as dumb & dumber's spokepiece) and really somehow magically knew about what would happen to King's Landing,then why would she consistently practically constantly provoke the major threat who was apparently volatile and a ticking time bomb?Why would she risk getting kill herself,her family,and everyone in the North killed with her unprovoked hostile behavior immediately upon their initial meeting when their only saving grace has finally arrived to Winterfell to save them from the imminent apocalyptic threat of the white walkers drawing closer to her so called people just because it's the "Mad King's daughter"?Why would she risk getting her precious beloved Winterfell that is their home and the rest of the North obliterated to ashes,acting as if their ally deserved to be judged for the sins of her father before what the d&d forced Dany to burn the people living in the city in the capital of Westeros and the castle her own ancestors built she was working towards her whole life to reclaim,hence destroying the Targaryen legacy?Why would oH sO sMaRtEsT oF aLl sansa & bran the all seeing three eyed raven mentored and trained by powerful Targaryen-Blackwood skinchanger Bloodraven not try anything to prevent the loss of innocent lives especially children in King's Landing if they didn't exactly know what would happened but actually anticipated it instead?It all just goes to show even more that sansa literally didn't care about anyone not even her family but ruling over an independent North struggling to survive that none of the Northerners were prepare to take care of not even the starks let alone the most sheltered pampered spoiled useless ungrateful incompetent dumbass of a brat of them from:

•sansa easily breaking an oath before the old gods of her late father's faith to conspire against the so called devil incarnate with her hand to replace the woman with a man,risking her so called beloved brother life and the rest of their family's lives and the Northerners' lives yet again for the umpteenth time

•sansa begging her little brother bran to give the North independence as a kingdom and begged him to became queen in the North even while bran is king of Westeros,proving sansa only cared about herself getting a crown,not who sat on the throne considering sansa believes ruling is a reward and right and leisure she's entitled to and deserves,not a duty and a job with great responsibility it actually (especially according to Dany's chapters and quotes in the books),(because of her ancestors' genocide of the indigenous native people of the North,the Children of the Forest,her ancestors forced their daughters to marry and mate with for their warging and skinchanging abilities practically to steal it while the First Men also warged war against many houses in the north,wiping out some to become the notorious kings of winter as they kicked out the Blackwoods out of their wolfwoods to take for themselves;("Owning" and ruling land you not only blatantly stole (because it was taken not given or surrendered or even won) but imposed your religion and culture via colonization (unlike the Targaryens who adapted the Westerosi faith of the Seven and assimilated into Westerosi culture instead and didn't enforce theirs on others) upon the rest for thousands of years is not the impressive flex stark stans believe it is using for imaginary drags (as if the Targaryens weren't naturally one of the dragonlord dragonrider noble families of Old Valyria despite being a lesser house who ultimately is the only house to survive because Aenys was likely the only one wise enough to listen to his Daenys the. Dreamer and at least prepare to move his family away because of her dream of the empire's doom if if they didn't know at the time it was a prophetic vision) due to her nonexistent suffering stolen from her childhood friend poor Jeyne🤮

But after all,GRRM did say he created sansa because the Starks all got along too well,which isn't realistic in familial relationships and dynamics,so sansa's is literally the bad egg of the family sowing discord among them.NTM sansa is partially to blame for Ned's death btw especially since her stans love to blame Dany,who's still a child only two years older than sansa,for everything and anything under the sun out of her control when Dany has actually shown/proven she actually cares about other people more than herself and at least,Dany actually tries to help people no matter what even at her own cost and risk since she's truly the most selfless,altruistic,benevolent,kind,noble,honorable,etc.Dany's borderline righteous in spite of her understable flaws (which arent even toxic but relatable and compelling) and her faults (which are literally as a result of Dany actually being way too nice and lenient and for giving),which no one could've anticipated coming miles away and prevented anyway.

I made a post about Jon Snow being a Corn King figure here. So, this post references that one heavily. 

The Corn King is a term for a male fertility god/sacred king who dies or is sacrificed for the good of his people to bring fertility or spring back into the land. The Corn King is born at Yule, matures through the year, and dies at harvest, only to be reborn the next year. At Beltane, the Corn King weds an Earth Goddess (an aspect of the Earth Mother). The consummation of their wedding restores fertility to the land.

The king was the incarnation of a dying and reviving god, a solar deity who underwent a mystic marriage to a goddess of the Earth. He died at the harvest and was reincarnated in the spring. Frazer claims that this legend of rebirth is central to almost all of the world’s mythologies. FROM WIKI

I just wanted to make a ship-specific post as we know that Jon and Dany have both been set up as our savior figures to stop the Long Night, restore balance, and bring Spring back again. And, their convergence has been stated has being the point of the series. Does Dany fit the figure of an Earth Goddess, an Earth Mother? The Mother part is easy as Dany is connected to motherhood from the first book and first season onwards. Mhysa means “mother.” She’s the Mother of Dragons.  

Frazer, in The Golden Bough, uses Diana, the Roman moon and nature goddess (who has also been called Light Bringer interestingly) and her symbolic marriage to the priest-king Nemi “the two figuring as King and Queen of the Wood in a solemn marriage which was intended to make the earth gay with the blossoms of spring and the fruits of autumn.” Egyptian kings married their sisters and they impersonated Osiris and Isis in the rites of spring. 

In Barbara L Talcroft’s The Death of the Corn King which is built on Frazer’s The Golden Bough, she says:

Irish texts speak of the banais rigi or “the wedding of the kingship” which probably meant that the queen, who also impersonated the earth goddess,  chose a mate from among her war band and later to become the king-sacrifice. Mac Cana relates the story from Irish literature of King Eochaidh whose kingship was not recognized because his goddess-wife, Edain, had been taken away from him. Mac Cana concludes, “In the context of Irish tradition, the meaning of this is clear. Eochaidh had become king, but his kingship could be validated only by his union with the goddess of sovereignty, in this case, Edain. This union of king and goddess was at one time ritually enacted at the Feast of Tara.”

So, this part is interesting because it’s the Goddess of Sovereignty that gives the king legitimacy. Without her, his kingship is not validated. 

The ceremony so essential to the legitimacy of the king took place at his inauguration and had two parts- some form of drink offered by the goddess-bride to the king and the sexual union

Have I just talked myself into accepting Bran’s legitimacy VO while Jon/Dany are having sex? Heh.

The intricate relationship between king and Goddess, at least in the Celtic tradition, was undoubtedly caused by the conflicting emphases of the patriarchal sun religion represented by the king, and of the matriarchal earth and moon religion represented by the Goddess.

Moon symbology has figured in Daenerys’ story. ‘Moon of my life’ which Drogo called her is only one such example. The dragon creation myth is another. There are a lot of moon references in Dany’s chapters. But, there are even more moon references in Jon’s chapters. The Azor Ahai myth and R’hollorism is filled with sun, moon, and star references too. R’hllor specifically is connected to sun and stars.

“He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi, the Lysene girl said. Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.”

Melisandre says to Jon in ADWD  "You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall.“

R’hllor,” sang Melisandre, her arms upraised against the falling snow, “you are the light in our eyes, the fire in our hearts, the heat in our loins. Yours is the sun that warms our days, yours the stars that guard us in the dark of night.”

I was researching the Corn King mythology and I found the references to the Earth/Moon (often used interchangeably) Goddess and the role she plays in the Corn King story. It’s not just his death and rebirth that brings fertility to the land, but it’s the consummation of their marriage. I’m not taking this literally for Jon and Dany, but rather, that their partnership will be what helps saves the world and brings Spring again. 

I made a post about Jon Snow being a Corn King figure here. So, this post references that one heavily. 

The Corn King is a term for a male fertility god/sacred king who dies or is sacrificed for the good of his people to bring fertility or spring back into the land. The Corn King is born at Yule, matures through the year, and dies at harvest, only to be reborn the next year. At Beltane, the Corn King weds an Earth Goddess (an aspect of the Earth Mother). The consummation of their wedding restores fertility to the land.

The king was the incarnation of a dying and reviving god, a solar deity who underwent a mystic marriage to a goddess of the Earth. He died at the harvest and was reincarnated in the spring. Frazer claims that this legend of rebirth is central to almost all of the world’s mythologies. FROM WIKI

I just wanted to make a ship-specific post as we know that Jon and Dany have both been set up as our savior figures to stop the Long Night, restore balance, and bring Spring back again. And, their convergence has been stated has being the point of the series. Does Dany fit the figure of an Earth Goddess, an Earth Mother? The Mother part is easy as Dany is connected to motherhood from the first book and first season onwards. Mhysa means “mother.” She’s the Mother of Dragons.  

Frazer, in The Golden Bough, uses Diana, the Roman moon and nature goddess (who has also been called Light Bringer interestingly) and her symbolic marriage to the priest-king Nemi “the two figuring as King and Queen of the Wood in a solemn marriage which was intended to make the earth gay with the blossoms of spring and the fruits of autumn.” Egyptian kings married their sisters and they impersonated Osiris and Isis in the rites of spring. 

In Barbara L Talcroft’s The Death of the Corn King which is built on Frazer’s The Golden Bough, she says:

Irish texts speak of the banais rigi or “the wedding of the kingship” which probably meant that the queen, who also impersonated the earth goddess,  chose a mate from among her war band and later to become the king-sacrifice. Mac Cana relates the story from Irish literature of King Eochaidh whose kingship was not recognized because his goddess-wife, Edain, had been taken away from him. Mac Cana concludes, “In the context of Irish tradition, the meaning of this is clear. Eochaidh had become king, but his kingship could be validated only by his union with the goddess of sovereignty, in this case, Edain. This union of king and goddess was at one time ritually enacted at the Feast of Tara.”

So, this part is interesting because it’s the Goddess of Sovereignty that gives the king legitimacy. Without her, his kingship is not validated. 

The ceremony so essential to the legitimacy of the king took place at his inauguration and had two parts- some form of drink offered by the goddess-bride to the king and the sexual union

Have I just talked myself into accepting Bran’s legitimacy VO while Jon/Dany are having sex? Heh.

The intricate relationship between king and Goddess, at least in the Celtic tradition, was undoubtedly caused by the conflicting emphases of the patriarchal sun religion represented by the king, and of the matriarchal earth and moon religion represented by the Goddess.

Moon symbology has figured in Daenerys’ story. ‘Moon of my life’ which Drogo called her is only one such example. The dragon creation myth is another. There are a lot of moon references in Dany’s chapters. But, there are even more moon references in Jon’s chapters. The Azor Ahai myth and R’hollorism is filled with sun, moon, and star references too. R’hllor specifically is connected to sun and stars.

“He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi, the Lysene girl said. Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return.”

Melisandre says to Jon in ADWD  "You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall.“

R’hllor,” sang Melisandre, her arms upraised against the falling snow, “you are the light in our eyes, the fire in our hearts, the heat in our loins. Yours is the sun that warms our days, yours the stars that guard us in the dark of night.”

I was researching the Corn King mythology and I found the references to the Earth/Moon (often used interchangeably) Goddess and the role she plays in the Corn King story. It’s not just his death and rebirth that brings fertility to the land, but it’s the consummation of their marriage. I’m not taking this literally for Jon and Dany, but rather, that their partnership will be what helps saves the world and brings Spring again. 

— Daenerys I, AGOT.

— Jon I, AGOT.

i love this parallel in Dany and Jon's first chapters. GRRM is so good at introducing his characters and their main personality traits and he wastes no time establishing how observant these two are: Dany can see Illyrio's mocking smile at his brothers words; at Winterfell, Jon can see Joffrey's look of arrogance and disdain. both of them can see the truth lurking behind the facade whereas in comparison their more oblivious siblings - Viserys and Sansa - cannot.

Jon, Daenerys, & Wife Stealing.

And when the Thief was in the Moonmaid, that was a propitious time for a man to steal a woman, Ygritte insisted. "Like the night you stole me. The Thief was bright that night."

"I never meant to steal you," he said. "I never knew you were a girl until my knife was at your throat."

"If you kill a man, and never mean t', he's just as dead," Ygritte said stubbornly. 

A Storm of Swords, Jon III

If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl, the girl in her insisted, but the queen knew that was folly. Even if her captain was mad enough to attempt it, the Brazen Beasts would cut him down before he got within a hundred yards of her.

A Dance With Dragons, Daenerys VII

Amongst the free folk, when a man desires a woman, he steals her, and thus proves his strength, his cunning, and his courage. The suitor risks a savage beating if he is caught  by the woman's kin, and worse than that if she herself finds him unworthy.

A Dance With Dragons, Jon XIII

I'm quite convinced that if when Jon & Daenerys finally meet in the upcoming books, there's gonna be some symbolic wife-stealing going on. Ever since Jon accidentally stole Ygritte, wife-stealing as proof of a man's love & ability to provide has been a reoccurring theme in his narrative with the Free Folk. And here we have Daenerys, halfway across the world with no exposure to the custom, wishing that Daario, a man whom she is very much in love with, would steal her away at swordpoint as proof of his love for her. She even compares the daydream to what she believes happened between Rhaegar & Lyanna, where her much-idolized older brother "carried off his northern girl." The thought of a man she desires carrying her off in the night clearly seems quite romantic to her.

I think Jon will somehow "carry off" Daenerys, symbolically making them man & wife. and unlike when he first took Ygritte, this wife-stealing won't be an accident. Maybe he'll even do it when the Thief is in the Moonmaid. (note: throughout the books Daenerys is associated with the moon & lunar imagery a lot.)

But I think the irony of the situation will come in here:

"He's of my village. You know nothing, Jon Snow. A true man steals a woman from afar, t' strengthen the clan. Women who bed brothers or fathers or clan kin offend the gods, and are cursed with weak and sickly children. Even monsters."

A Storm of Swords, Jon III

When Jon steals/falls in love with/marries/allies with Daenerys, he'll be under the impression that he's "strengthening the clan" (aka his family & the North itself) by partnering a woman who he believes to be as far from being kin as one could possibly get. Only to find out, lo and behold, they've secretly been aunt & nephew this whole time! oops : /

Your usage of the Melisandre's words just blow my mind!

anon bear with me for a moment bc i’ve been dying to talk about this. so here’s the full exchange between jon and melisandre in a dance with dragons:

“Ghost,” he called. “To me.” The direwolf looked at him as if he were a stranger. Jon frowned in disbelief. “That’s … queer.”“You think so?” She knelt and scratched Ghost behind his ear. “Your Wall is a queer place, but there is power here, if you will use it. Power in you, and in this beast. You resist it, and that is your mistake. Embrace it. Use it.”I am not a wolf, he thought. “And how would I do that?”“I can show you.” Melisandre draped one slender arm over Ghost, and the direwolf licked her face. “The Lord of Light in his wisdom made us male and female, two parts of a greater whole. In our joining there is power. Power to make life. Power to make light. Power to cast shadows.”

among many other parallels and contrasts, this is probably the one i like the most. because melisandre is talking with jon about him and his direwolf but i immediately thought of daenerys and her dragons. daenerys spends most of the fifth book “denying” her dragons and her true self so she can be a queen and a mother to her people. and here we have melisandre telling jon that he should embrace his powers and ghost’s powers as well. and then she goes and talks about the power that a female and a male together can have. i mean, george isn’t talking about melisandre and jon here lol he is calling out for jon and dany’s struggle and then telling us that in their union there’s power to cast shadows and make light. i mean…………

a lot of jonerys antis say that there aren't enough time for jon and dany to have a romance in the last two books what do you think about this ?

"not enough time for romance", what does that even mean?

as far as Canon is concerned, both Jon and Dany will meet in the middle to fulfill their clear destiny in the War of Dawn, and if GRRM doesn't want to make a joke of himself as D&D did, his final antagonist, the literal apocalypse will last at least good months, time in which the two will be brought together and some kind of relationship and dynamic will ensue naturally, not matter its nature

romance doesn't stop happening on the side because other things are going on; does there need to be a romantic plot gated enclosure in the narrative? can't Jon and Dany walk and chew at the same time?

how many "books" did Daenerys need to have a romance with Daario and call it love, with Drogo and call it love? for Jon to have a romance with Ygritte and call it love?

is there a timetable for romance? graphs and checklists? Jon and Dany could meet today and be lovestruck in a day or a week? or they could come together as cold allies and grow over close over sharing the crucial leading experience in a fight of life and death? or they could just be buddies or accept each other as family or just as partners?

but the idea that "time" is decisive in matters such as this? Lol, some people on this site try so hard to appear "high and above" that they no longer appear to seem to understand how a person works