I Despise Both Renesmee Cullen's And Hope Mikaelson's Existences. Both Characters Are Plot Holes And

I despise both Renesmee Cullen's and Hope Mikaelson's existences. Both characters are plot holes and shouldn't exist.

Renesmee Carlie Cullen is the daughter of Bella Swan and Edward Cullen. She's half-human and half-vampire, and in Twilight, it was explained that only male vampires can have children with female humans. But that doesn't make any sense because vampires in Twilight don't have any blood in their bodies. Then, Stephanie Meyer explained that the venom that is in their bodies works similarly to the bodily fluids that are in humans. But if that was the case, then Bella shouldn't have gotten pregnant. She should have become a vampire after having sex with Edward. Renesmee is called 'half mortal and half immortal' by Aro, but how can a person be half mortal and half immortal? She's either mortal or immortal. She can't be both. Does she age, or does she not? Can she live forever, or does she have the lifespan of a human?

Now, onto Hope.

Hope Andrea Mikaelson is the daughter of Klaus Mikaelson and Hayley Marshall-Kenner. She's a werewolf, vampire, witch tribrid. In the pilot episode of The Originals, it was explained that since Klaus was born a werewolf and became a vampire because of magic and not by drinking the blood of another vampire and dying with that vampire's blood in his system, he was able to conceive. Vampires in The Vampire Diaries are infertile and can not have children, and while Klaus is the world's first werewolf-vampire hybrid, he's still part vampire. He shouldn't have been able to have a child, which was confirmed in Legacies. The only reason Hope exists is because Malivore. So, if Malivore never existed, Hope would have never existed. She wasn't born because her father was created differently from traditional vampires, but because it is her destiny to defeat a mud monster.

Both characters are great (more so Hope because she was given her own show, and I grew to like her over Legacies' 4 season run. Renesmee was kinda there. Her CGI in the movies creeped me out, and she absolutely did nothing in the book), but their existence goes against the canons of their respective movies/books and show.

It's funny because both are created as plot devices to Bella and Klaus and they're meant to be the magical powerful baby of their universe, but their existence alone just makes it look ridiculous by breaking every single canon law.

As you said, Renaissance came out of nowhere. She was soo incredibly intelligent from the very first moment her parents made her, but apparently not smart enough to control her own strength seeing she broke several Bella's bones (like honestly, what the hell) and this demon spawn craved human blood for absolutely no logical reason other than Edward being a vampire. Ratatouille also could not be seen in the ultrasound or any other thing: she had a impenetrable amniotic sac because yes, exactly, her daddy is a vampire!

Honestly, I kinda feel bad for Ravioli. I've never finished reading Breaking Dawn (and I won't), it was such a corny book and I could only bring myself to the third part, where Bella spends time with baby Rasputin but I've heard interesting things to how the Cullen rise this sim. Apparently, Bella and Edward couldn't care less about their daughter, because as always they were more obssesed with each other and Rosalie did all the parenting, because the love birds couldn't be distracted with their CGI spawn. If I'm correct, Edward even called Bella more beautiful than Rim Job right in her face and instead of being mad, because their kid was right there, Isabella was just like "gosh edward, ily sm 😘😜😍"

Parents of the year.

Stephenie Meyer didn't care about Bella and Edward being parents: she just wanted the aesthetic that came with it, and she pulled the reasons of the human-vampire pregnancy out of her ass.

Actually, when I was in my twilight phase, I read a fanfic where Bella got pregnant, and the reason was a little more "coherent" than what Meyer gave: Having died so young, Edward's body "froze" his sperm and because he had remained a virgin for over a hundred years (lmao), he was able to get Bella, the first and only woman he slept with, pregnant. It's still shitty, and bad, but if they wanted them so badly to have a kid this was a better reason.

I just can't take Twilight books seriously. Apparently, there are no black vampires for a barely explained reason that is clearly racist (if I remember, the venom that vampires inject you during death just... removes your skin color), the mistreatment to the werewolves is just terrible, and there's Ratatunga too.

Now, moving to Hope Andrea Mikaelson, the white witch that is hated and loved in equal measures by the fandom. Oh my, this is gonna be interesting.

I have my moments with Hope, to be honest. Sometimes I completely adore her, and sometimes I just can't stand her. Her existence was completely pulled out of Pl*c's ass, who wanted to have her own version of Renameme so badly. Klaus shouldn't have even been able to procreate in the first place, because he was killed before Esther binded his werewolf side. Though vampires in tvd are more alive than dead, but that's a whole different thing. But clearly my point still remains.

I like Hope Mikaelson a lot more than Ragnarok Cullen, Summer Fontana/Danielle Russell and Mackenzie Foy are all really amazing and beautiful actresses who did great with the role they were given, but their characters completely broke canon. I like the tribrid more though because at least, she wasn't a fucking sim that aged five years in a week unlike Nestlé. The only way I could ever like Radioactive is by having her completely loathe her parents and family, especially because she was born in 2006 aka she's part of Gen Z.

Both characters shouldn't even exist in the first place, and Hope's existences is as much of a plothole as Riptide's. Renesmee gets more hate simply because of how she was in the womb and also because of how fast she grew, but they're both plotholes and shouldn't have been created no matter their popularity.

How do you think Klaus, Elijah, and Hayley would’ve reacted if they’ve been alive when Hope jumped into malivore, causing them to lose all memory of her, only to later regain their memories back a couple months later?

We've all seen how Freya (aka the only one of her siblings who gave a damn about Hope) reacted to losing Hope. If I'm not wrong, because I only made it to the second season of Legacies that luckily it's the main plot of what you're talking about, there were still photos of Hope around her house and Freya didn't know who that girl was but she was still clearly distraught.

That would only be worse with Klaus and Hayley.

They were clearly depressed in s2 of The Originals after being forced to send Hope away, and this could be the only time Hayley could have considered turning off her humanity: she said time and time again that the only thing she could think about was how much she missed her daughter and Klaus agreed in her feelings, saying he felt the same.

If her parents were still alive by the time Hope jumped, the two of them would be heartbroken. They loved her the most and losing her just once nearly destroyed their bond, but Hope was just a baby back then, a newborn. There wasn't much to miss about her: they didn't know Hope yet, just that they loved her.

By the time of Legacies, Hope is already a teenager with thoughts and a personality of her own. At this stage of her life, Klaus and Hayley know who she is, not just what she means to them, unlike when they lost her for the first time. So when they forgot about her after jumping into the pit, they would lose more than just their daughter.

There would be photos of Hope all around their house, photos of her with the two of them and with each one of her parents individually, and photos of her alone and with other family members, and her bedroom would still remain in the compound: a room full of paints with soft colored walls that clearly belonged to a girl. That, along with the photos, would certainly make them suspicious.

Those photos would have Hope in all her stages: a baby, toddler, child, teen, etc. They would clearly guess she's related to them in a way and they would all assume Hope is Klaus and Hayley's daughter, but no one would voice it except probably Elijah, because Klaus would be in his denial era again and I don't know exactly how Hayley would react, but if one thing is for sure is that both parents would be depressed because they would feel something is missing and yet they wouldn't know what.

In short words, they would act like the first time Hope went missing: Klaus and Hayley would probably not speak to each other and they would be off killing people 24/7, to Elijah's disappointment. After Klaus snapped out of his denial era, Hayley and him would talk about this mistery girl and acknowledge that they have a daughter together.

I think Hope was in Malivore for three months, so the moment she comes out she would probably go to her parents because well, with them alive she wouldn't hold on to Landon as much as she did in canon. I don't think Klaus would hurt her, perhaps keep his distance because he's still paranoid af and he wouldn't trust this girl until he got his memories of her back despite wanting to keep her close. Hayley wouldn't give a fuck tho, she would be glued to Hope the moment she saw her.

When everyone got their memories of Hope back, Klaus and Hayley would be crying for like a year lmao. They wouldn't want her back in the Salvatore School and they would only agree to let her assist after a fight and them moving to Mystic Falls to keep an eye on her. They would be more clingy and a lot more overprotective of her, because that's their baby and she disappeared out of nowhere and they won't go through that again.

I totally forgot about Elijah but he would be more or less like them, to be honest. He would have a good relationship with Hope and would clearly move to Mystic Falls with his brother and Hayley to make sure his niece is more secure and etc.

Do you think that Klaus loves Hope enough to forgive her for anything? Like say, she kills one of his love interests like Caroline, Aurora, or Cami, would he still forgive her? Or if, she killed one of his siblings like Rebekah or Kol? Personally I think that if Hope killed one of his love interests Klaus would react much the same way Elijah reacted when he killed Gia. Obviously hurt and angry, but at the end of the day, he’ll forgive her because he loves Hope more than anyone else. But I don’t know how he would react to the lost of one of his siblings. Even when he daggered them, he still loved them in his own twisted way. He refused to abandon any of them, including Finn. After all, he hauled their bodies around the world for centuries.

Klaus would forgive her, but not forget.

Before his daughter was born, Klaus was the center of his own universe. He's narcissistic, paranoid and he spends all his time making enemies anytime he much as breathed. Those enemies were trying to kill him 24/7, and that included his own family more than once.

Literally all of his siblings (except Henrik but he didn't even reach puberty) have tried to kill him at least once: Elijah in the ritual, Rebekah by summoning Mikael to New Orleans and by siding with the Scooby-Doo gang, Kol spend half of his life trying to remove his brother from earth, Finn was manipulated by Esther and Freya seemed really ready to take him off the way if he didn't stop threatening her.

I don't remember Klaus seriously trying to kill any of his siblings: he just daggered them and kept them in coffins so they wouldn't be away, but the only people in his family he tried to seriously murder were Mikael and Esther, but that might be wrong because this characters are constantly being rewritten to fit into the narrative so correct me if I'm not in the right. And judging by how much Marcel and Klaus went back in their threats, they would never be able to actually kill the other and Marcel even said he couldn't hate him, because he's his father and stuff.

It's not hard to see that Klaus is toxically attached to his family members and he allowed Finn, his least favorite sibling and someone who originally intented to harm Hope, to live despite everything because he did love his brother no matter what.

So if Hope ever wanted to hurt anyone of his inner circle I don't see him taking it well, but I also don't see him hating her for it. Especially taking into account how Hope is: the only way I could see her ever harming anyone in her family is by having her humanity off, and not even then because when she had it she was only bullying all of them except Marcel (stan her for that btw.)

It's obvious how much he loves her, so I'll skip it and go straight to the point: Klaus would 100% forgive Hope, that girl could set the world on fire and he wouldn't give a fuck as long as she is safe and sound. But if she ever harmed anyone he cares about it would definitely hurt him. I don't see him picking the same strategy he always goes for whenever someone hurts him, that is playing the victim. No, Klaus would be definitely disappointed and hurt for a long time and that may strain their relationship for a while, but that wouldn't change his love for her.

Again, I can't see Hope hurting someone she/he loves in purpose without having her humanity off and not even then, but Klaus wouldn't hold it against her.

He would forgive her, because as Marcel said, Klaus will love the very worst of her until the oceans are dust.

Klaus and Bonnie would (and still make) more sense than klaroline, klamille and klayley. Stay mad about it

new to this ship but can you point out moments in canon that shows the potential? i like it but i don’t know where Klaus and Bonnie ever interacted. it seems random to ship

It is not random to ship. It just wasn’t as serviced as Klaus other ships same for Bonnie and her ships. They may not have interacted often but context counts.

Klaus was introduced with an obsession with witches. Joseph and Kat did make remarks about Klonnie and things they’d do to get people to notice it. Joseph referenced Klaus love for witches here and here. In canon Greta Martin left her family to work with Klaus. This doesnot mean that is the kind of relationship Klaus and Bonnie could’ve had. Just showing that Greta was okay where she was. Maddox was another loyal witch. Then we have Gloria from season 3 who Klaus respected and went to for help. She was over 100 years old and even Klaus referenced as powerful.

Shared bloodline connection. Ayana mentored Esther. Ayana was around during the Mikaelson’s human life. It is Ayana who the Mikaelsons took Henrik too after he was killed. Esther until TO’s Esther praised the Bennett’s often in season 3. It is Abby who put Mikael down, that is only half the reason for abandoning Bonnie. Esther also praised Bonnie for being the witch that fought Klaus. Keep in mind it is Elijah who recruited Bonnie to help take down Klaus even if he betrayed her.

Unlike the other women or characters Bonnie has never been afraid of Klaus. She’s fought him once, and then again both times fearlessly. Klaus believed Bonnie was dead, this little-witch who was just starting outsmarted the big and bad hybrid. Then there’s here where she again isn’t afraid of him no matter how much he tries. Bonnie isn’t someone Klaus can control unlike the other characters. The only way he really controls Bonnie is through her friends and it still doesn’t deteriorate Bonnie as a person or last long. She never falters. You see how she steps over him. She’s a fearless witch-goddess as Elena said. That conviction in how he says witch. Klaus will need Bonnie long before Bonnie ever needs him. Even when he threatens her she never once backs down. Bonnie having moments with her enemies shows so many of her emotions. Another lovely moment is here. Then here where Bonnie dreamed of Klaus in the coffin. Here’s another moment of Bonnie standing off with Tyler!Klaus. In TO Klaus and a Bonnie spoke over the phone.

Klaus and Bonnie were not allowed many moments outside of being enemies. Klaus didn’t invite Bonnie to a ball or gift her fancy gowns,money for graduation or school but they aren’t a random ship. The lore is there, the scenes and potential certainly exist. It just takes the right fans to see that. Bonnie could be valued by someone like Klaus and vice-versa. I have seen arguments that shipping Klonnie is weird, when has it ever been weird to like two characters from the same franchise. If Klaus can have sexual relationships with other witches than Bonnie is to no different. She’s best-friends with Damon and dated a vampire herself.

Hope this helped.

-Rikki

while obviously racism plays the biggest role in the differences between klope and klarcel, for klaus i’d say that gender plays a larger role than blood ties in comparison to elijah/rebekah/freya/kol.

i believe that klaus is fully capable and willing to love marcel as a genuine child of his despite him being adopted but hope being a girl makes him love her a bit more because he “gets” to protect her rather than feeling like he has to compete with her like he did with marcel. i mean hope as a full tribrid is stronger than klaus (bc magic) but i can’t see him having the same reaction to that as he did with upgraded!marcel

Oh, completely! A clear example of this is how he behaves with Rebekah and Elijah: he isn't nearly as protective or jealous over his brother as he is with his sister.

A lot of his issues with Marcel come from the fact that he never told him he was alive, and also that he made New Orleans the city it is today. Klaus met Marcel when he was already a child, when Marcel had already the memories of his biological father engraved in his brain: like him, Marcel was abused and that is the reason he even adopted him. I believe Klaus himself or some of his siblings said it, but he adopted Marcel because he saw himself in him.

Klaus loved the kid, that much was clear. He even got jealous of Elijah spending time with Marcel, going as far as to undagger Kol but daggering him again the moment he saw his brother was a danger to the kid he loved as his son. Klaus was actually jealous and possessive over Marcel's affections towards Rebekah too, just like he would have been with Landon and Hope. He daggered his sister because in his words "she needs a lesson on what she can and cannot take from me" or something similar. Like what happened with Hope and Hayley initially, he did not want to share his son with his sister.

Klaus was deeply hurt by Marcel's "death" too, and in 1x11 he said "I thought you were dead. It was years before I could speak your name, so keenly did I feel that los" so I completely think he wouldn't be able to actually kill Marcel at all, despite all his threats, and the same goes for him and etc.

Gender plays a big role in all of Klaus’s relationships. When killing any of Rebekah's lovers, Klaus then would proceed to verbally harass her, making her feel stupid and small and all kind of things, and he did the same to Freya with Keelin, who quickly called him out on his bullshit. He never did this to his brothers, only to his sisters.

In my opinion, Marcel holds the same value as Hope does in Klaus’s life. He just couldn't show it, because there was a lot of bad blood between them and also because he was a man.

Some people have this weird fixation about making Klaus choose Caroline over Hope, especially in fanfics. I’ve seen fics where Klaus abandons Hope, or kills Hayley for disrespecting Caroline, or just ignores Hope in favor of Caroline. Like some people forget Hope’s his daughter - of course, he’s going to choose her over everyone. I think any decent parent would choose their child over a potential girlfriend/boyfriend. And Hayley is Hope’s mom, a very important person in her life. I don’t think Klaus would kill Hayley unless she posed a threat to Hope or if she tried to take Hope away from him. Honestly, I don’t think he would even tolerate people openly disrespecting Hayley in front of Hope, regardless of who it was.

Another thing that I’ve noticed is how people are so determined to make Klaus a father figure to the twins, particularly Lizzie. I’ve read a fic in which Klaus clearly and openly favored Lizzie over his own daughter - which would never happen. I think that if Klaus and Caroline actually did end up together, he still wouldn’t be that present in the twins lives. Since he is overprotective to the extreme, I think that he would hold some resentment over how the twins treated Hope in their younger years. He’s petty enough to hold a grudge against a kid. And anyway, I don’t ever see Alaric allowing Lizzie or Josie to get close to Klaus, no matter what Caroline says.

I don’t know… it’s just weird that people keep diminishing Hope’s relationship with her own father to benefit their ship. Sorry for the rambling.

People fail to remember that Klaus is his own person and not an extension of the ships they like, and that ship half of the time is klaroline because they are obssesed with making him her personal puppy, as if that ever happened in canon.

Granted, Klaus said a few nice things to her and did like two good things to make Caroline not feel so guilty about wanting to fuck him, but other than that there's no way he would ever seriously chose her over his family, especially his own daughter. He chose to save her over Rebekah back in Mystic Falls because his sister is immortal, Caroline isn't.

I've never actually read long klaroline/klamille/klayley fanfiction. Sure, I use to read some oneshots from time to time because they have really good writing, but this fanfics I'll talk about best used to show up while I was in the klaus or mikaelson tag and I used to take a look because I was curious. It has some wild elements, that's for sure.

I've seen a lot of fanfics where they make Caroline some weird ass hybrid/tribrid that manages to be a werewolf, witch and vampire all in one and it's like wtf. They complain constantly about Hope's existence because she breaks canon and yet they make this baby vampire the biggest Mary Sue ever. Yes, the producers created Hope because they wanted to create their own magical baby like Renaissance from Twilight, but they make a fool of themselves by making Caroline be anything but a vampire. Caroline was incredibly mean and a complete hypocrite as a human and don't bring me the "she was insecure and always in Elena's shadow" because I'm insecure too and that doesn't make me be a bitch to the people who love me. Klaus was always threatening her whenever she spoke in a way he didn't like, and that was when she was already the "sunshine vampire" people claim to love so badly, so people who think he would even let her live if he met her as a human are laughable.

Klaroline shippers are so pressed about Hayley being Hope's mother, I can't even tell you how many posts, videos and weird fanfics I've seen of Caroline being her mother and being the "Mikaelson's light". I've said it a lot of times, but the Mikaelson wouldn't like Caroline at all: Rebekah and Hayley were constantly slutshamed by her, Elijah hates people who insult/hurt his family, Kol was literally killed by one of her best friends and he would not be okay with that, Finn couldn't care less and Freya probably just heard bad things from her, if she even knew about her existence. And in top of that, Caroline literally threw a party when she thought Klaus died.

When they have any Mikaelson or Klaus, especially Klaus, kill Hayley, I just lose it. Why the hell would Klaus ever do that? He literally lost his mind when she died, he was a mess and they don't even want to admit he loved Hayley: new flash, he did. She was his family, the mother of his daughter, probably his best and only friend and he loved her. Not in a romantic way, but they still get pressed because how dare Klaus have feelings for anyone other than their queen Caroline.

Also, their obsession with making Caroline be called queen? It's creepy and weird, it must be really annoying for them that Klaus only called Cami and Hayley a queen. Those two girls were a thousand times closer to be considered family by him than Caroline ever could, and his siblings did care for those women too.

This reminds me of a really good point in klaroline fics: if Caroline is the one pregnant with Hope, Klaus will react a lot better. I just can't see this, Klaus’s daddy issues are literally the main point of his character. He hated Mikael as much as he desired his love, he always yearned for one of his parents to care and no one did: Mikael, because he was a piece of shit, Esther, because she was terrified of her husband and there's literally no other reason in canon that explains why she allowed Mikael's abuse and Ansel, because he was forced to stay away and was killed twice. That isn't gonna change just because he got Caroline, sorry to tell you.

I can see him reacting less murderer and less threatening. Alkaline covers this so well and it's one of my favorite Klaus fanfics, if he has a romantic relationship with the woman he got pregnant he wouldn't tell the witches to kill her and their baby, but I do think he would still think at first she cheated, not only because of his paranoia but also because he is supposedly incapable of having kids.

The whole Lizzie and Josie thing is really a good point! I agree, Klaus would never favor the twins over Hope or even Marcel. Those are his kids, he raised them and he never met Josie and Lizzie until they were like what, twelve? Thirteen? He even said people needed to ask him permission to even talk to Hope, he would 100% hold a grudge against the Saltzman twins for being mean to his daughter. I also think that the whole "Klaus would like Lizzie more than Josie" is because physically and in terms of personality, Lizzie is the one that resembles Caroline the most. So when writers have him openly prefer Lizzie isn't only weird, it has some uncomfortable pedophilic vibes.

I've only seen klaroline and some klayley shippers say that about klope, how he would love x girl more than Hope and etc. I hardly doubt they even remember canon Klaus, just their fanfic version because if Klaus ever had to chose he would always chose his daughter. I've also seen, in a lot of fanfics, not only klaroline ones, how Klaus would love more or completely ignore his oc kid (they also have Hope he a complete bitch from the start, even if it's her seven years old version) and it's just strange. There are a lot of reasons why Klaus and Marcel didn't have a stable relationship, mainly all the bad blood between them and the fact that Marcel was already grown up by the time they met, but he never hesitated to put himself in danger for him. Klaus even refused to kill him, knowing he was endangering Hope. I just can't see him ignoring his kid, especially if he got to actually see him/her grow up.

This is not bashing to the writers btw! Sorry if it came out like that.