Linguistics, Especially As It Relates To Translations, Are Fascinating

Linguistics, especially as it relates to translations, are Fascinating

My friends are the coolest 😎

I need my 日本語を話せられない TWST friends (non-Japanese speaking) to know that my buddy who is an L2 Japanese language teacher (with an MA in East Asian Studies) and I (who is an L2 Japanese learner with an MA in Sociolinguistics) have been dying over this colloquial grammatical construction that we keep seeing in the voice lines of History/Flight and Alchemy lessons: 朝から (asa kara)

Neither of us can figure out how to properly translate this construction, and every time TWST adds a new line with it, or we come across a line we hadn't see before, we immediately message one another in our confusion and have a conniption over it. We had questioned whether or not it was an example of "anime dialect", but after finding plenty of examples of it being used on Japanese twitter, we realized that it is definitely a colloquialism that's used in everyday speech.

For discussion purposes, keep in mind 朝 (asa) means "morning" and から (kara) is the particle causing the translation issues.

The thing you have to understand is that in Japanese classrooms and in Japanese grammar books - including Japanese grammar books FOR native speakers the particle construction ____から (kara)____まで(made) functions like "from ___ until ____" in English.

Except that's not how its being used in TWST. The まで portion of the particle construction never shows up in any of the examples that I've pulled from TWST.

Examples include (but are not limited to):

Cater (History): 朝からいい感じ (asa kara ii kanji)

いい = "good"

感じ = "feeling" (like a vibe or emotion)

Official Localization: "Off to a good start today!"

Cater (History): 朝から頑張らね (asa kara ganbara ne)

頑張らね ≈ "let's do well"

Official Localization: "Early bird gets the worm, I guess."*

*Footnote: While the translation here isn't literal, this line makes me openly question if 朝から is actually a set up for an idiomatic phrase in Japanese but I will discuss more later...

Jade (History): 朝から元気でそね (asa kara genki desu ne)

元気 = "in good health" or "well"

です= formal, present tense of the closest equivalent of "to be"

ね = equivalent tag is "right?" or "yeah?"

Official Localization: "You have a lot of energy in the morning."**

**Footnote: This localization is just painfully off from the intended meaning? But we're keeping it here to prove a point.

Malleus (History): 朝から退屈だ

退屈 = Tedium or boredom

だ = informal past tense of です

Official Localization: "It's early, and I'm already bored."

(A fun side note: This exact quote was found verbatim on Japanese twitter when we were searching for language samples.)

Sebek (Alchemy): 朝から再ないこだな

再ない ≈ not again

再ないこだな ≈ its the same again /its repeating (with a declarative verb conjugation, implying that the audience already understands and agrees)***

***Footnote: I kind of get the sense that he's basically saying "It's another morning and it's the same shit again", but not literally. Because he is clearly using a negative declaration here and the implication of the repetition "from the morning, its the same again" kind of gives me the reading similar to "Not this shit again".

Official Localization: "Someone awoke in a foul mood."

Additional translator's note: Because the subject is repeatedly dropped from each example here, and the only ones that indicate any inclusion of an outside party are Cater's second example and Jade's example because of the inclusion of the pragmatic tag, I am operating under the assumption that each student is likely speaking about themselves. This creates a bit of conflict in my understanding when compared to the localizations, because the localizers keep making a referential to an outside party ("someone").

You can tell from the official localizations that they are localized in such a way that its seamless for English speakers, but the translations often aren't or can't be literal. The localizers also repeatedly use idiomatic phrases in their translations where contrastingly, the predicate of the sentence (after the time placement) don't necessarily use phrases that I recognize as being used in idiomatic contexts. This creates an issue since we can't use them as a reference for being able to figure out what から does/how it functions in the sentence as a grammatical element that also changes the meaning of the sentence. The closest thing we've been able to guess about the use of から in these lines is that it might mean "From" or "Because of", which we pulled from one of the Grammar Books that she uses to help teach. The chart can be seen here:

But if that's the case, Cater's second line doesn't exactly make sense? Nor does Sebek's line? And for that reason, I have to wonder whether or not 朝から is used as a formulaic set up and if that set up is idiomatic in nature.

Both of us for literal months have been scrounging the internet in hopes that we can find any sort of clue as to how to understand this construction and/or to identify whether or not its specifically a colloquial usage to signify an idiomatic phrase is being used. One of the big flaws though is we haven't exactly been able to find any evidence on sites like Word Reference forums of the use of から in any potentially idiomatic way, and the localizations suggest that it could either be idiomatic or literal. We also haven't found any other site that uses or references から without まで.

At this point, it's entirely possible I'm overthinking it? But I'm genuinely confused and want to better understand it so I can improve my overall Japanese comprehension.

I honestly just wanted to share this because it's been both a fun and also frustrating learning journey, and also because I'm hoping maybe there's another person out here who 日本語と英語を話せまそ that might also recognize or know this construction and helps us understand it better. ^^;

TWST OC Questions

I am supposed to be working on a req I got about a month ago OTL but I need uh. serotonin from something in the meantime LMAO (it is more than half way finished, dear requester, if you see this) ANYWAYS

Obviously, if you want to ask a question that's under one category but for an OC that doesn't fit under that category, you can <3 its more what that dorm inspired me to ask about

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RAMSHACKLE

Does your OC have magic? Do they develop it over time? Do they overblot? If they don't, do they ever reach a snapping point?

Does your OC follow the canon timeline? If not, how have you adapted their story?

Is your OC shipped with anyone? If so, who? What's their dynamic like?

Is your OC homesick? What are they willing to do to get back? How 'on' Crowley's ass are they? If not, why don't they want to go home? Do they have an issue with Crowley anyways? Have they considered/do they care about what happens to Grim if they were to leave?

How does your OC customize Ramshackle, if they do at all? How do they cope with the state it's in when they first arrive?

Is there anyone your OC sees as family?

How does your OC feel about magic in general?

What chapter does your OC experience the most character growth, if any?

What is YOUR favourite character's impression of your OC when they first meet?

What would your OC say their greatest strengths/flaws are? Do you agree with them?

Are there any characters your OC absolutely does not get along with?

How many times do you think your OC ends up in the infirmary? Besides canon, can you tell us about a time they've gone in?

Which housewarden does your OC clash with the most? Who do they relate to the most, if any?

What are some mannerisms your OC has picked up from the people around them? (be it other (people's) OCs or Canon Characters)

What's their relationship like with the ghosts? With Grim?

What class do they dread the most? Why?

Has your OC ever been sent to Crowley's office for their (mis)conduct in class/on school grounds?

Is there someone who scares them? Why? Do they ever work through it?

What's your OC's best memory since coming to NRC?

Do they work for Crowley? Or do they find another job bc FUck the bird?

HEARTSLAYBUL

Have they ever gotten collared by Riddle? For what? How long? How often does it happen?

Do they think they could be a better housewarden? What makes them think that?

What's the chore unique to Heartslaybul that they look least forward to? What's their favourite? (tending the flamingoes/hedgehogs, organizing the Unbirthday parties, painting the roses, etc. etc.)

How many rules have they memorized? How many do they actually follow?

If it was their turn to take care of the dormouse, how would they do it? What flavour jam would they spread on its nose at the Unbirthday party?

What's the worst thing they've gotten away with? What's something they do exclusively in the rose maze in hopes nobody finds out, if anything?

Who are they more likely to go to if they have an issue that needs to be addressed? (Riddle, Trey, or, pushing an HC here, former housewarden Cay-Cay?)

How clumsy are they? Does the unique furniture and layout of Heartslaybul ever throw them off? (Do you HC the dorm the same way I do?) Have they adjusted to it?

If Riddle offered to tutor your oc, would they take him up on the offer? If not, how do they normally study/prepare for tests?

What's your OCs favourite flower? Would it be realistic for them to grow it in their room/on the dorm somewhere?

SAVANNACLAW

Where do they consider themselves in the alleged 'hierarchy'? Is this accurate?

What sport do they specialize in? If they don't play, what club are they in? Or do they ever play referee?

Does your OC ever get into physical altercations? How do they usually play out?

Does your OC respect Leona? Do they want him to do anything differently? Does Leona know your OC? Does he respect them?

Does your OC have beef with someone outside of the dorm? Is it reasonable in your opinion? Is the other character aware?

How does your OC feel about all the dirt/heat in Savannaclaw? Have they ever considered transferring dorms just to get away from it?

How protective of their food are they? Is there a reason why, besides instinct/hunger? Or are they more likely to share food?

(assuming your OC is a beastman) What's something that makes them easy to read? (eg. tail wagging, ear wiggles, fur standing on end, etc. etc.) and do they wish they could change it? Are they sensitive to the paranormal?

Was there any alterations made to their ceremonial robes? Did someone have to help them put it on?

What do they think of Ruggie and his workload? Do they consider it fair? Are they jealous of how close he is with Leona?

OCTAVINELLE

Do they work at the Mostro Lounge? If so, what position? Was it by choice? Do they enjoy it? What's their biggest customer pet peeve/most ridiculous request they've seen/heard?

Have they ever made a contract with Azul? How did it go?

Can they be trusted in the kitchen? What's their favourite food?

Are they intimidated by the tweels? How did their first meeting go? Have they ever had the opportunity to put them in their places?

Do they like being under the water all the time in their dorm? And if they're a mer, do they go home for the winter holidays or no?

Does your OC enjoy wearing the funky dorm socks....not the uniform, just the socks, or do they try to cover them up like Jade?

Has your OC ever been blackmailed? Or do they do the blackmailing? What about your OC fits the nefarious energy the canon characters give off? Or are they meant to balance them out?

Did they know about the plan to make Ramshackle a second Mostro Lounge location? How did they feel about it? If they didn't know, how did they react afterwards?

Does your OC play any instruments? Does Azul know that they play? Can your OC sing?....Do you agree with your OC's opinion of their ability to sing?

Is your OC claustrophobic? Or do they enjoy small spaces?

SCARABIA

How do they feel about Kalim's parties? Do they ever help with set up/take down?

How do they feel about Jamil? His workload? Do they think what he did to Kalim was just/did they agree that change was needed in the dorm?

How do they handle the sand?

Has your OC ever stolen anything from Kalim's rooms of treasure?

What's something your OC does want to change in the dorm?

If they participate in Kalim's parties, what's their favourite part?

What's your OCs favourite way to stay hydrated in the sweltering heat of the dorm?

How did your OC feel about the whole hostage situation with the random magicless person from Ramshackle?

How did your OC fare on the treks hypnotized Kalim took them on?

If electing dorm leaders was a possibility, who would they choose and why? (if it's themselves, bonus points if you show a campaign poster or tell me about it or something LMAO)

POMEFIORE

What's their favourite type of poison?

What DnD class would your OC be? (I ask this bc I feel like. Pomefiore has the most diversity in that aspect than any other dorm)

Has Vil ever personally given your OC a makeover/pep talk about their appearance? How did it go?

What's a scent you associate with your OC?

What's your OC's aesthetic outside of school affiliated clothing?

How well does your OC know makeup?

Is your OC starstruck by Vil? Are they jealous of him? Are they in film studies club? (Aka, what is their dynamic with Vil?)

Between Vil and Neige, who did they vote for at the VDC?

Does your OC have issues with the way food is monitored in Pomefiore? Do they ever confront Vil about it? Do they have stashes of food anywhere?

What's your OC's biggest insecurity, physically and personality wise?

IGNIHYDE

Is your OC an introvert, or just selectively social? Or are they extroverted?

What is the project/invention they are most proud of?

What's a hidden talent they have?

What's a hobby they enjoy doing alone? What's a hobby they enjoy doing with other people? If it's gaming, what type of games do they enjoy most?

How competitive is your OC? How easy is it to rile them up?

Is there anything your OC would infodump about? How do you get them to share? Do they ever get insecure about their rambling?

Do they want to apprentice somewhere like S.T.Y.X/for the Jupiter Conglomerate? What's their dream career? Do they ever try to impress Idia hoping to get their foot in the door?

Does your OC ever find out what Idia's (canon) UM is? If not, do they have a theory on what it might be? What is it?

How did your OC react to Ortho returning to school in Chapter 6 (trying to avoid spoilers sjkfklsjdfh)

What's your OC's favourite piece of media/what would be the equivalent of their favourite media in our world?

DIASOMNIA

What's your OC's favourite type of music? Is there anybody they listen to music with? (Jamming out to Canon in D with Malleus amirite OTL /j)

Are they scared of Malleus/the power he has?

Has Lilia ever pranked them? How did it go? Did they get him back?

Have they ever tasted Lilia's cooking. Did. Did they like it?

What's a magic skill your OC specializes in?

What's a "traditional" or old fashioned hobby your OC has? (Calligraphy, fencing, leatherwork, etc, etc.) How did they pick it up?

If your OC is fae/has a prolonged life span, did they participate in the same life events as Lilia? (again, I'm trying to stay spoiler free)

On a scale from 1 - 10, how powerful would you rank your OC? What about their UM? (and what is their UM?)

Which of the 7 deadly sins (pride, greed, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, sloth) do you associate most with your OC and why? (remember some of these have more than one connotation e.g. blood lust)

What's your OC's favourite orchestral instrument?

FACULTY

What position do they have? How long have they been working there?

Did they go to school with any of the canon faculty/other character's parents?

How well do they remember students names and faces?

Did they know Ace's older brother? What was their impression of him?

What's a quirk they have regarding how they teach their class? (e.g. allowing cheat sheets, mandatory brain breaks, pop quizzes, weird disciplining, etc.) If they're not a teacher, how is the way they interact with students different than they interact with coworkers?

What's their opinion on Crowley/Ambrose? Given the opportunity, would they take over as headmage?

How do they feel about all the overblots? Do they ever feel slightly responsible or like they should have been there to support the students more?

How do they deal with entitled attitudes or otherwise disrespectful students?

Are there any students they've come to see as their own kid? How do they feel about the one magicless student on campus?

Do they enjoy being a part of student gossip/actively involved in student drama?

GENERAL QUESTIONS

Do they stim? What are they and what triggers it? How much do they mask?

What's something they'll never leave home without?

What was the main inspiration behind their design?

What's in their bag? (link to picrew)(if you want)

How do they handle caffeine? If they need/enjoy it, what's their preferred method of consumption? Have they ever concerned anyone with their intake?

Do they have any family heirlooms? What is it, and how long has it been in the family?

What's the fastest way to piss them off? To calm them down? To cheer them up?

What is their ideal date, be it romantic/platonic or otherwise?

Have they thought about their dream home? What's an absolute must have?

What are their minor fears?

Do they have any regrets?

If they could go back in time and talk to themselves, what age would they want to talk to? What would they say?

Do they have light in their eyes? If not, is there anything that sparks it, even temporarily?

What's their relationship with their parents? Siblings?

If they could magically change ONE aspect of their life immediately with no repercussions, what would it be?

Do they have any body modifications or tattoos? Any that aren't obvious just looking at them/in uniform?

What's their guilty pleasure?

If they could fight anyone with a guaranteed win against them, who would it be?

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OTL I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS but I'm going to leave it at that for now <3

If you're new to tumblr, the general rule of thumb is if you're going to reblog an ask game send an ask in too. Not to me. To whoever you RB from, okay <3? If you're RBing from me don't worry about sending one in unless you really want to sdkhlkf

Have fun <3

WHEN I TELL YOU HOW QUICK I DID A DOUBLE-TAKE WHEN I REALIZED YOU ANSWERED SO QUICKLY; I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA PULL A MUSCLE

I LOVE YOU SO MUCH <3 <3 <3

Happy Birthday to Emil Lehr!

What's Emil's 'imagined white whale' when it comes to cooking? The dish/kind of dish that despite valiant efforts, they just can't seem to make it to their own satisfaction even if everyone else thinks they've killed it?

Oh this is SUCH A GOOD QUESTION!!! Thank you so much for asking!!!

So there's this specific apple cinnamon challah that I've personally had, and I like to imagine its something that Emil had like once as a kid and has been trying to match and perfect the recipe ever since. But it doesnt match the way he remembers it, no matter how hard he tries to refine the recipe. And that doesnt mean he does it wrong or bad! Its still good challah! But he just cant seem to get it ✨️perfect✨️.

Tag list: @cyanide-latte @inmateofthemind @ramshacklerumble @thehollowwriter

@rainesol @elenauaurs @blithesharem @theleechyskrunkly

@boopshoops @starry-night-rose

Lmk if you want added/removed!

3 and 5 for Fia and Cal???

[3] What emotion is the hardest for them to deal with?

Fia: This question is essentially this little lady's entire story arc, so I'm not sure I should discuss this too deeply lel😅

I think I'll leave it at rejection for now.

Cal: My knee-jerk reaction is to say anger since Cal goes undiagnosed for his Oppositional Defiance Disorder until a fairly emotionally cataclysmic (and physically destructive) incident during the 2nd Arcane Exchange.

However, upon reflection, it occurs to me that it isn't anger he's feeling in that incident: It's heartbreak/betrayal. It's Cal realizing that someone he's been opening himself up to, something he rarely does and much less to the extent he ends up doing, never cared for him in the first place. Cal realizes he's a plaything, not a partner. It's the latest in a series of 'nobody wants me' moments he's had to live through, but this one feels the most personal because he's never really had these kinds of feelings for a person before. Never has he shared such deep thoughts with someone else.

(Guess that's what he gets for trusting a Tweel, huh?💔)

[5] Are they good at keeping secrets?

Fia and Cal: Too good at it when it comes to themselves, to be honest. Revealing any more would be telling 🤫, but I can certainly say that both of these children have skeletons in the closet that they are intending to keep mum about until the day they pass on.

Neither of them are going to be successful on that front, but E for effort.

Fia specifically when it comes to other peoples' secrets: Quiet as a church mouse and twice as evasive.

Cal specifically when it comes to other peoples' secrets: Same as above, but it doesn't take as much pressure before he gets angrily defensive about it.

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