Am I The Only One Who's Scared For The Upcoming Aegon The Conqueror Adaptation...? The Dance Is A Lost

am I the only one who's scared for the upcoming Aegon the Conqueror adaptation...? The Dance is a lost case. It's destroyed, ruined, made into a minced meat and served as dog's food. It's unsalvaegable atp. But HBO wants to do the same to Aegon and his sisters and it makes me both furious and frightened. Mattson Tomlin will be the screenwriter. Ok, so far so good. He seems like a decent guy. He didn't post anything that'd imply he's going to turn this series into his own fanfic. But what next? I've researched the process of making a tv show, and if I'm not mistaken, Tomlin's sole job is to write the "core" of the story (the sequence of events, how it might begin and on what note should it end, a rough draft of dialoques, things like that) And then that script will be passed forward to five other screenwrites who can do with it whatever they want. What if Condal and Hess - the biggest f**cking hacks in the whole world - will be among those screenwriters chosen by HBO?? It's going be a nightmare. Oh god, the villainization of Rhaenys and Visenya while also making them a total weaklings without ambition or agenda. And yes, it's more likely than not that these asshats will make the Conquest, as well. They're HBO's favorites, since they made the ever successful House of the Alicent.

Oh, and I'm sure they gonna fuck the dragons just as much as their riders. Do you want to see Aegon riding a saggy, rotting Balerion with a dropping neck? Well that's exactly what you gonna get.

They hate Targaryens and everything that's associated with them.

Oh no, I'm right there with you anon. I honestly hope this show somehow dies like the Snow show. His perception of Daenerys is extremely telling of his inability to understand the bigger picture of the story.

Him accusing Dany of being "genocidal" in season 3 is fucking ridiculous. He's somehow construing her actions to overthrow a monstrous and oppressive system as genocide. Like, media literacy is just not present apparently. Since Dany shares parallels with the Conquerors, this perception is very... concerning. So, from my perspective, this is already doomed to be another shit show.

Considering how often people in the fandom like to interpret the relationship of the Conquerors as strained at best, I have very little confidence anyone HBO hires will be much different. HBO definitely hates the idea of any healthy relationships, romantic or otherwise, as we've seen in GOT and HOTD. I definitely think Visenya will end up hating Aegon and/or Rhaenys, and Aegon will probably resent Visenya and abuse Rhaenys.

I've always thought the GOT dragons were extremely uninspired. They dulled their colors and made them all look the same. I liked the HOTD dragons a lot more; but I agree that Vhagar looks kinda bad (she looks like a turtle 😭). Since Balerion is supposed to be older than Vhagar is in HOTD, they might go with the same idea for him, which is sad. Especially since they did a good job with Caraxes and Syrax (aside from keeping her the same size the whole show).

It's so sad and frustrating how determined HBO are to just destroy everything connected to ASOIAF. Time and again, they've proven that they just don't understand what GRRM wrote at all.

If you’re team black, who is your favorite team black character? (vote for your favorite or least disliked tg character here)

Maybe this Will Put Things into Perspective about Rhaenyra & Cersei's Kids Being Bastards or Not...

Feudalism is an early period or a economic phase of a millennia-managed con against anyone who isn't a noble man, and most men are the active conmen.

Neither set of kids were ever declared bastards. Nor were they ever or "acknowledged" as bastards, because noblemen "acknowledge" a child they father onto another woman. noblewomen, in theory, can, but if their having had sex premaritally/extramaritally isn't already known outside of the household they do not. Because to do without it already being known (like with Alys Turnberry) would publicly ruin her prospects for marriage in the future, ruin her reputation, and likely muddy the family's as well.

Robert probably would have removed those kids from the line of succession had he known (and he didn't) if not outight remove them from the mortal coil. But instead, he got gutted. Therefore, Cersei's kids are not officially or "legally" bastards. That prior declaration is what is required to have them "legally" known as bastards.

Bastardry has always been more of a legal question in its nature than a biological fact of nature. Of course, we the audience and most of ther know that Rhaenyra's kids aren't Laenor's biologically; Ned correctly deduced that Cersei's weren't Robert's biologically. However, he was never able to get his information to matter "legally", or to get it to Robert to make a decision on. Whereas Laenor, Corlys, Viserys all knew and decided to maintain the boys as their heirs. And they made this decision based on the lack of knowledge the public has/what they can control. Which is often what any noble does; once again, GRRM has explicitly stated that the lords of Westeros often take advantage to twist "laws" (customs) according to the circumstances around them & their own desires, and it's is not exclusive to bastards already "acknowledged".

The purpose of marriage as an institution is entirely for the lord/nobleman's benefit. It is an institution that was created and developed entirely for a man's political interests (a father's, a brother's, a husband's, a son's, etc.). And it was made to consolidate/monopolize the noble woman's (or really any woman) body and reproductive labor so as to produce living products to pass on the resources/titles mainly the lord and his ancestors have aggregated. To try to make sure those resources are passed to the people the lord wants passed own to, the sexual purity culture imposed on women and girls works to construct shame & suppress female extramarital and premarital sexual activity, which is an aspect of her overall agency. Her agency is re-confined/socially reduced to her sexual activity because she has no other primary function nor legal privileges aside form being a wife, mother, daughter, virgin, etc. Or sometimes the protectoress of her husband's/son's assets: the castle at times of war/siege when the lord is not present; director of his household's activities and servants by being its head overseer of accounts. Therefore, the lord is literally claiming his wife as his effective property through her womb & this is often why when we see women like Daena sleeping with a man not her husband, it is an act of reinforcing her authority or political agency in spite of how she was raised to see her own body.

Finally, the constructed demarcation of bastard vs "trueborn" offspring in Westeros/real EU medieval societies is also meant to

Think about it: why do we not have a world or society (fictional or not) where even though the wife births a child not her husband's the husband's do not willfully or are "legally" compelled to adopt that child as their own, effectively de-fathering the biological father? Because men want to feel as if they have as close to total ownership over female companionship and labor so they consolidate power to themselves and not to women. Having all these designations of gender and "bastardry" that everyone are compelled to follow makes that easier without expending energy or sharing power. Medieval customs put the social-legal identification of "bastard" from the institution of marriage, its compulsions on women, and their reproductive labor/bodies/uteruses being claimed by the men who are "licensed" to own them. Which is why when we say that neither Cersei's nor Rhaenyra's kids are "bastards" it is true, because the purpose of bastardry is to attempt to reclaim the product of reproductive labor and Viserys/Corlys/Laenor/Robert have already done that. To protest about how Robert didn't know about his kids not being his kids is really to protest how he didn't not get the products of Cersei's reproductive labor in the usual male-prioritized business of objectifying female labor that is intrinsic in this feudal society. Whereas Viserys/Laenor/Corlys accepted the products of Rhaenyra's reproductive labor.

All this is also why I really don't care for the impassioned argument of these women were being "unfair" to the system (Rhaenyra) or to their husbands, fathers etc. (Cersei) or them being "liars" or "destructive". Feudalism is itself an objectifying, unfair, unequal system. It is designed to benefit men and mainly men inherently, and directly at the expense of women who risk death itself while a man fathering any sort of kid never risks death. Men lie and destroy the women who birth their children, manage their household, protect their castle, rear their children....and it is all "licensed" and justified under the constructed institutions of marriage, oath-making, knighthood and principles of chastity, virginity, the different sub-meanings of "honor" for men vs women, etc. Men are themselves already objectifying or making an exclusive economic use of their female counterparts as well as going back on their vows (a deal that is still in feudal marriages, even for men) through their socially-allowed extramarital and premarital affairs producing bastards.

Exactly! The majority of the lords of Westeros fought for Rhaenyra. They didn't complain or petition Viserys to change his mind. No one cared except the greens.

If Aegon, Alicent, and the other greens had just not committed treason, they would have been perfectly safe. Rhaenyra even offered to pardon them even after Aegon crowned himself! Rhaenyra never took any steps to endanger her siblings until after Aemond killing Lucerys.

Bringing up Rhaenyra's children and their legitimacy doesn't actually work in this universe. There are no paternity tests, they only have Laenor's word, no matter what the boys look like!

Adoption was a thing in the Medieval time; Luke was chosen by Laenor and Corlys as their heir, that's all you need in that time. The lords of Westeros accepted that, all that mattered was Laenor and Corlys' word. The only reason the greens and Vaemond pushed it was because they saw it as a possible way to undermine Rhaenyra.

That's just the case of Luke and the case of Driftmark, Jace and the IT is a completely different matter. The IT passes through Rhaenyra; she's the Targaryen, she's the heir. Therefore, all that matters for Jace is that he's Rhaenyra's son, legitimate or not. He's a Targaryen and the oldest son of the heir of the throne and Viserys acknowledged him as Rhaenyra's heir.

Why did Cersei order all of Robert's bastards to be killed? Because they were his blood, therefore they had claim to the throne, legitimate or not. So in Rhaenyra's case, Jace is a perfectly allowable and acceptable heir to the IT. He was declared legitimate by Laenor and Viserys, if Rhaenyra's word isn't good enough. The lords of Westeros acknowledged Jace as Rhaenyra's trueborn son and heir, as did all the maesters and historians after.

Though his fifteenth nameday was still half a year away, Prince Jacaerys had proved himself a man and a worthy heir to the Iron Throne."

Fire & Blood: The Dying of the Dragons - A Son for a Son

Wow, look at how the realm so clearly was unwilling to accept Jace as heir. It's almost like the greens were just making shit up to justify their treason.

I don’t think people understand why Alicent was so bothered by Rhaenyra having illegitimate children as much as she was. Yes, part of it was coming from a place of frustration at Rhaenyra for scoffing at tradition and not honouring her marriage vows, but Alicent’s primary focus was on the politics - and how it put her own children in mortal danger.

Painting: The Execution of Lady Jane Grey

You see, if Rhaenyra had legitimate children with Ser Laenor, then the Greens would have no reason whatsoever to try and replace Rhaenyra as heir to the throne with Aegon. They, in truth, would’ve been usurpers. But as we know, Rhaenyra having bastards not only weakened her own claim to the throne but by it, she has given her enemies a legitimate reason to support Aegon instead of her. Just think about it - nearly every lord in the realm has a bastard of his own. If Rhaenyra puts her own bastards on the throne, it sets a precedent - that bastards can have a claim to a title just as much as legitimate children can. This of course presents a HUGE crisis to the lords who probably have multiple bastards running around, now all potential heirs to his house. Some lords might even have older bastard brothers, brothers who would potentially be better rulers than them if they were trueborn. Brothers who would follow Rhaenyra’s suit and place themselves in positions of great power and usurp their trueborn sibling’s claims. No doubt, this would lead to violence, in-fighting, bloodshed and the potential extinction of houses and bloodlines that go back thousands of years.

So naturally, any lord who would be fearful of this playing out would naturally ally themselves with the trueborn children of House Targaryen - Alicent’s children. Whether the Greens want it or not, Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron would become unwilling figureheads for rebellions against Rhaenyra. These rebels would rally themselves around Alicent’s children, demand them to be crowned instead of Rhaenyra, and of course, Rhaenyra would have absolutely no choice but to execute her half-siblings, to save herself and her children. Whether Alicent’s children want it or not, they are living, breathing, constant challenges to Rhaenyra’s throne.

It’s the exact predicament Mary I of England faced - a Catholic queen who had just deposed her Protestant cousin, the Lady Jane Grey, Mary had no choice but to order 16 year old Jane’s execution in 1554. Despite having Jane imprisoned, rebels kept on popping up around England, all marching on London to dethrone Mary in Jane’s name, even though Jane herself was oblivious to what was happening because she was behind bars and had already relinquished her crown and declared for Mary. Mary was hoping to restore Catholicism to England and was planning to marry a foreign prince so she could provide England with a Catholic heir - but she knew so long as Jane lived, Mary, her future children and England would never know peace. So she reluctantly signed Jane’s death warrant, causing the death of one of England’s most tragic figures.

This would be the fate of Alicent’s children if Rhaenyra ever ascended the throne. No matter how good willed Queen Rhaenyra would be to her siblings, it wouldn’t last. The minute the first lord lit the beacon of rebellion and openly called Rhaenyra’s sons illegitimate usurpers of Alicent’s trueborn children with no right to the throne, Alicent’s children would’ve been executed. There’s absolutely no way Rhaenyra would ever chose Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron’s lives over her own living children - what mother would?

that you bake of this

I find it interesting how the first poster is accusing groups of TB stans of not handling criticism, when TG stans (particularly Alicent stans) are the ones most often "melting and crying" over criticism.

Pointing out Alicent's hypocrisy and cruelty, the fact that Aegon is a rapist, and Aemond was a coward and cruel are all met with screaming. They flat out deny any facts of canon that show how awful their favs are. I've been told to kill myself multiple times just for pointing out actual canon things Alicent has done. Like, the call is coming from inside the house TG lmao.

I don't deny that there are certain people who claim to be TB but have absolutely braindead takes (namely certain Daemon stans, which is very sad). But the fact of the matter is, those people are a very small percentage. The percentage of insane people who can't stand criticism is wayyyyyyy larger in the TG fandom.

Most of TG stans' so-called criticism of Rhaenyra is just calling her a whore, saying she roll over and take any injustice, and that she's not nice enough. Of course we get annoyed and angry with that, it's not even actual criticism; it's just noise. The few times they actually have valid critiques of Rhaenyra, they still tie it in with calling her a fat whore. Anything of worth they could possibly offer is always completely bound to their intense hatred of Rhaenyra.

No, Rhaenyra isn't perfect, we don't expect people to just blindly worship her. She's not a good person, she's classist, and she wrongfully ordered the executions of innocent people twice. However, she's the rightful heir, that's literally a fact. We expect Rhaenyra to be supported because she's a victim of the patriarchy and misogynists. She doesn't have to be your favorite character, but the fact remains that she's the rightful queen and the Greens are usurpers and warmongers.

As for the whole "team smallfolk" idea: it's basically always used as an excuse to be blatantly hateful towards Rhaenyra. The "team smallfolk" and "team neutral" people never attack the Greens with the same vigor as they do Rhaenyra and her family. In fact, most of them even say that they're "green leaning".

The contradiction in this idea of supporting the smallfolk and the Greens simultaneously is that if the Greens hadn't interfered, the Dance and the deaths of the thousands of smallfolk wouldn't have happened. Rhaenyra and the Blacks didn't start the war, the Greens did. The Greens committed the most atrocities and refused every single offer of peace Rhaenyra offered.

I think the second poster is hilarious though. I don't know if they're TG, I assume so based on the subreddit. I don't know if they meant to, but they pointed out just how hypocritical the first poster's mini rant was. The first poster tacked on "Also they hate "Team Smallfolk," and the second poster pointed out how most of TG also just don't give a shit. Even if the second poster isn't TG and was just going to that subreddit to start something, there are still so many TG stans who admit that the smallfolk don't matter to them. I even had an anon once tell me that the maids Aegon raped don't matter to them as an answer to why they like and support him. I'm not going to say that they're right on not caring, but at least they're not hiding behind that false moral superiority.

Like I said earlier, the Greens were the ones who caused the deaths of thousands of smallfolk, both indirectly by starting the war and directly through Aemond and Daeron. The Greens didn't care about the smallfolk in any way, they only cared about power. Any TG stans who act like they're "better for the smallfolk" are delusional.

To sum up my thoughts: the first poster is projecting. Every single one of their criticisms apply better to their own group. The delusion and false superiority that poster displays are hilarious and frustrating.

US-backed Israhell has been and continues to starve and deprive Palestinian people. Having access to basic necessities like food and water is a HUMAN RIGHT. This is beyond horrific.