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pinkbutterflygaming

1 year ago

Okay, so I watched the Percy Jackson series, sadly didn't get to watch the eps after ep 5 due to no longer having the subscription and had to look for the scenes of Ep 6 and 7, and there's one thing I don't think anyone pointed out yet, which I think was made clear in Ep 7.

Poseidon in the books called Sally "a goddess amongst women", he said that he hasn't met someone like her for a thousand years. The TV series makes this very clear about Sally. She challenges the way of the Gods, and was even open about it with Poseidon.

THIS is the woman that Poseidon fell in love with.

I cannot make this any more clear, Poseidon fell in love with Sally the same way Annabeth would fall for Percy.

Because Sally changed him. Poseidon had to live with the ways of his family for a very, very long time. But when he met Sally, his perpective changes. She showed him another way. That there could be better. Just like how Annabeth, who used to live for glory, once held the same views like everyone else, was changed by Percy's kindness, and strong beliefs that it isn't right. That there has to be more than just this.

Poseidon fell in love with Sally because she was better than him. She was better than those his family.

I think some part of Poseidon was already kind of unhappy with it. We know what happens when mortals challenges the Gods in the myths. But Poseidon fell in love. Hard. Despite all the risks.

It makes the whole thing more painful for Poseidon, because as a God, he still has to abide the strict rules that his family has. No matter how wrong it is now. When he meets Sally he acknowledges that Percy will always be Sally's son. And because he is Sally's son, he will be better than the gods, just like his mother.

Now, just imagine Poseidon secretly hardcore shipping Percabeth because of how they remind him of his summer love with Sally. IMAGINE. Athena just angry and Poseidon just being all giddy about Percy's girlfriend lmao (I mean, if you think abt it, he was fine with them kissing in his domain-)

Hits different when Annabeth says "I trust your father", lol

Tags :

percy jackson percy jackon and the olympians pjo series pjo spoilers pjo tv show pjo poseidon sally jackson pjo books annabeth chase

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pinkbutterflygaming

1 year ago

Dont worry about the additional ramble, my first post was also just me doing lot of rambling about some random idea I got all of a sudden. Aaaanndd now I'm gonna do it again....

You're right, you've made a lot of good points there. I think I got too carried away with the idea of Asha's character arc. To me, having selflessness as a weakness and be something to learn from would be an interesting concept to explore for a character, but maybe not for Disney though. Ooh... maybe all that "selflessness" could've been used for set up for Asha's self-sacrifice for Star. Think Eugene or Beast, but it's actually the "princess" who does it. Well, it would be a bold move...

This also brings me back to another thing that I wanted to dive into in that post, but didn't because of how lengthy that became, and I think this may be one of the root problems with Wish.

I think Asha found out about Magnifico too early.

Oh, even better, she even comes up with the solution to the problem, saying that people should be given the chance to realise their dream, keep the bad wishes, etc, preaching the story's moral. What a hero!

All in the first act.

Because of this, Asha doesn't learn.

Because of this, there's barely any room for a journey at all.

That first post I made was me trying to think of a way of how "This Wish" could theoretically work into the formula, but looking again... it might not. Asha just knows too much too early.

Something felt off when I read something in the concept art about Asha being a modern take on the heroine and fairy tale, rallying people together to change the world and fight an impossible force she opposes.

But the thing is, what I've noticed is that the hero in Disney films doesn't really try to oppose and/or confront the true villain until the story's third act. Maybe sometimes second act, but not right away. They go through a certain journey first. Even in a movie like with Mulan where they do try to oppose the threat, there's still a long winded journey to get there.

In some other films, the protag doesn't even know that the main villain is well... the villain until later. It's only made very painfully obvious to the viewer, but not for the protagonist. The Little Mermaid, Snow White, The Lion King, Tangled are good examples. There are some exceptions, but this is how it is for some of the classic villains. It makes it all the more suspenseful for us because we know that they're bad yet the protagonist is still oblivious to it all as they interact with them.

They tried to make Magnifico a classic villain but barely anything in his design says that he is evil. I think the concept art looked a lot better, but in the film, it doesnt translate. Makes sense he'd look charming or else people wouldn't trust him, but I think they lost the evil charm in his character from the concepts. And then you give a hint of a sympathetic backstory? You can't do all three villain types at once.

I could be wrong about this and I feel like you might know more about this subject than me and I havent seen all of Wish so I'd like to see your perspective, it's just something that didnt sit right with me looking back at how Disney villains were taken care of.

I think how it would've worked is that Asha's wish could be a call for help due to there being something wrong in the community. Also make things more personal if it's got to do with her family. But it's not about Magnifico, she doesn't know he's behind it all.

Maybe that's why another concept of Starboy is him taking the form of her grandfather after he passed away. She was meant to wish for her grandfather's help, and so the Star manifests as him. It could go either way, the grandfather or the love interest.

If we want Asha to go through a character arc, then maybe change her perspective about wishes. Allow her to be naive, thinking that wishes should all come true. And Star is the one to teach her that they all shouldn't, there's harmful wishes too. People have the power to fulfill their own outside of just the King. Literally the perfect opportunity to insert "I'm a star" revealing that since humans are no different from stars either, so they can make their own wishes come true. He only came down to guide Asha. This would be the answer to what she's missing.

It would be interesting if the quirky starboy turned out to be the more wiser of the duo due to his experience as a star, while Asha being the more quieter one yet naive in her point of view.

Though yes, it doesn't leave much of an arc for Star, especially if this is the love interest route. Maybe learning to love is his character arc?

They go through a certain journey to figure out what's going on while helping the people affected, this is where Asha learns the story's message through the journey. Differing viewpoints between Star and Asha would set up some really good conflict between them.

King Magnifico caught wind of whats going on (wishes being fulfilled, people becoming more independent from him), and does his evil acts to savotage them, Star and Asha constantly fixing his mess without any of them realizing until they do.

Maybe Star initially tries to convince Asha to make people realize the truth, but Asha in her stubbornness, forces the two to face him alone. This could also add another twist for the heroes (but not the viewer) where Amaya is revealed to be heavily involved, leading to Star getting captured in an attempt to protect Asha and allow her to escape.

Asha escapes, and rallies the people. She then remembers what Star taught her and makes a plan by utilising the people's own wishes and then inspiring them to achieve it for the plan to work. (They dont remember their wish, but Asha reminds them?) It's something very similar to something that happens in Kung Fu Panda 3 (not Disney, I know), but it would've worked to send the message Wish is trying to do here.

Asha saves Star through wit and determination and some trickery, while also trust in the people and community because what went wrong the first time was that Star and Asha ended up confronting Magnifico alone.

The two then split up to deal with the villain couple, with Star dealing with Magnifico (which is why Asha's wish required the Star coming down, because she needed him to deal with Magnifico's magic), while Asha goes after Amaya who turned out to hold the stolen wishes. (And something something for the conclusion...)

Hmm, I don't think this does include the "faith" aspect very well. I think there are definitely better ideas out there than me...

Again, thanks for your feedback! Maybe I should do a big Disney movie binge sometime to compare to Wish to improve things, Im just remembering things from the top of my head. Oh, and Happy New Year! °w°)/

Disney doesn't need to change "the formula." That's the last thing that Wish proves.

What Wish proves is that "the formula" only works when you know why the ingredients are in it, and you use them the correct way.

The Princess Character is meant to wish for only half of the movie's message, and go through an adventure that teaches her what the other half is; what her dream was missing. Ariel dreamed of understanding but she was missing love. Tiana dreamed of achieving her goals but she was missing faith. Jasmine dreamed of freedom but she was missing trust. Belle dreamed of adventure but she was missing being understood.

The Villain is meant to highlight the opposite of the movie's message. Jafar gets what he wants through trickery and manipulation; that's the opposite of Aladdin's "truth will set you free" message, and he gets imprisoned in a lamp. Scar thinks being a King is having his way all the time and can't learn from his past of living in Mufasa's shadow; that's the opposite of The Lion King's "Let the past remind you of your responsibility to selflessness." Gaston loves only himself and is always obsessed with appearances; that's the opposite of Beauty & the Beast's "true love is found within a heart of self-sacrifice." That's what makes them such good villains. (and that clear direction is what drives good villain songs, since Magnifico's is what everyone is talking about)

The sidekick is supposed to compare/contrast with the main character's qualities. Abu is a greedy thief, which is what everyone in Agrabah thinks Aladdin is; when he scolds Abu and teaches him selflessness, it shows us who Aladdin actually is. Flounder is easily frightened and looks at the glass half-full; when Ariel coaxes him and leads by example, we see her bravery and positivity reflected in Flounder's tiny character arc. Timon & Pumbaa do whatever they want all day just like young Simba always dreamed of; when Simba goes to live with them, he finds that "getting his way all the time" makes him forget who he really is and feel empty.

The setting is supposed to show off the characters and highlight the movie's message. Rapunzel's tower is designed to be pretty on the inside because of her influence; if it were too dark and prison-shaped, we'd wonder why she didn't work up the courage to leave sooner. Just like how Quasimodo has made his corner of the bell-tower beautiful, too; they're taught the world is cruel and they're not strong enough for it, but they make their own worlds beautiful enough to hint that that's wrong right from the start. Ariel's grotto is shaped like a tower with no roof so that she only has one window to the forbidden Surface, and it's the light that comes from that forbidden world into her dark grotto which literally makes her able to see human things differently. Tiana's apartment has no interesting features except her father's picture, a perfectly made bed, a drawer with no extra outfits but stuffed with tip money, and only two dresses; both of which are for work.

None of that is happening in Wish, because they didn't know why the formula ingredients are there. Disney needs to understand and return to the formula the right way; forgetting it was what got them here.

Asha learns nothing to add to her dream, unless you count "the power to grant wishes is in me." Which you shouldn't, because we didn't even know she was confused about that until the animals sang a song that was completely off-topic and she had the chance to jump in and sing "I'm a Star!"

Magnifico does not demonstrate the opposite of Wish's message effectively because his character has nothing to do with a philosophy against making wishes, and everything to do with power. (He is the strongest character in the film. But because the message and core concept of what wishes are are so bad, that's not saying much.)

Valentino, and Asha's friends, do not highlight anything about her character through compare/contrast. Valentino is brave and all over the place. Her friends are seven-dwarfs parodies. Happy, Doc, Sneezy, Dopey, Bashful, Sleepy, Grumpy. None of that contrasts with Asha's vague characterization of "cares too much." None of it compares to that characterization, either.

The setting is empty. There are no interesting details that teach you something about any of the characters. None in Asha's home, none in the neat-and-tidy one-dimensional forest, none in the Rosas square, and none in the bland, empty castle. Magnifico's study is the closest anything gets; there's a loose concept that all of Asha's friends have to work together to open the roof, and take a leap of faith to weigh the pulley system down. Unfortunately, none of these characters is shown struggling to work together, OR to take leaps of faith, at all, before this point.

The ingredients of the formula are in Wish. They're just not being used correctly. This is how not to use the formula; it's not the formulas fault. If it ain't broke. They should never have let people convince them to try and fix it.

Tags :

disney wish the disney formula asha disney asha disney disney movies

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pinkbutterflygaming

1 year ago

Okay, heads up before I say this, do note that I haven't had the courage to watch Wish myself in the nearby theatres due to what people have said (man, I almost did, but it comes much later in my place, and reviews went out first).

I will only be watching it on Disney Plus if it ever comes there if my family just so happens to be subscribed to it at the time, since I still want to see what went wrong in that movie myself (and go into instant denial of what the movie could've been).

I do have a rough idea about what happens from analysis videos and reviews, but let me know if I got something wrong.

So I saw this post a few days ago and was just randomly thinking about it, specifically the idea of the Princess Character was supposed to have a wish that's only half of the message, it is a wish that's also missing something for it to be complete.

Putting together the dots, I realized that this was actually the original purpose of "This Wish". It was SUPPOSED to be missing something.

And looking more into it, I realized what the original intended theme of Wish was in the concepts, and I am in shambles.

Wish's theme was originally about the importance of having your own wish. That it's okay to want something for yourself.

If I'm right about this, we weren't just robbed, they also burnt everything and nuked it. No way this didn't have any corporation meddling. They ruined what would've been a classic, not just with a love story, but with such a unique message when it comes to wishes and love.

Buckle yourselves up.

I personally love "This Wish", at least on its own anyway, listening to it a lot and just envisioning what the film could've been.

When thinking about it, I realized there was indeed something missing about "This Wish", something Asha is leaving out throughout the song.

Herself.

The song talks about Asha wishing for something more for her community for her people, but if you think about the lyrics closely, you realize that Asha actually leaves herself out of the equation, what she wants for herself out of all of this.

Looking back at what apparently happens in the film, this seems to be a constant running theme for Asha. Well, there was an attempt anyway.

So apparently, Asha is said to have "too caring" as a weakness, the Queen also says she is "generous", "cares for the people". What's even more striking is the fact that Asha seemingly doesn't even have a wish. And then she sings a wish for the people, but not for herself.

Yes, I have heard that this wasn't executed well, was shown through more words than actions. But this seems to be somewhat consistent enough that I can't help but think this is intentional...

What if that's originally supposed to be what sets up her character arc? A girl who thinks of the wishes and wants of others, but never what she wants for herself? A girl who is too selfless.

That's it. Maybe the reason why we don't get Asha learning from her weakness, or get a any closure on her character arc was because they have removed the very thing that was supposed to make her grow as a character.

The Starboy.

Yes, everyone is crying over the scrapped love interest, something we havent had in... 10 years? Me included. Dammit.

But perhaps what makes his removal more tragic is that it may have done more damage to the story than we thought, to the point it even destroyed the original theme of the story, and the character arc Asha was supposed to go through.

Because if I am right about Asha's character, then Starboy is exactly what she needed. She NEEDS a love interest for her to learn what's missing. Since her character revolves around selflessness, she needs a something that makes her wish for something for herself, something that makes her whole wish thing in the movie to be more personal. And perhaps, it takes love.

The film Tangled even touches on this concept a bit. Where in the end, Eugene says that Rapunzel has become his new dream, and Rapunzel says that he was hers.

"At All Costs" (demo ver.) isn't just some love song. It's actually the very song where Asha slowly realizes her own wish, a wish not for others, but also for herself. A wish for love. For Star. Maybe at this point she's still oblivious about her own wants, but this is the moment where in her heart, this is what she wants.

And interestingly, Star probably would've had the exact same character arc, despite possibly being the opposite to Asha in personality. He's the personification of a wishing star, someone who grants the wishes for others, but never something for himself. For the first time, through Asha, even stars can have wishes and wants of their own. There's a hint of that in this one line.

"If you ever told me the feeling you'd bring"

"I'd think it untrue."

This seems to describe how impossible the situation should've been for him, falling in love with a human.

"Leave you here, I don't want to..."

"I want to..."

"...Love you as one does"

And he doesn't want to leave.

Two characters, who live in servitude for others, learn the same lesson through their love for each other, that there's nothing wrong with wanting something for themselves. Love becomes their wish, their want.

And that's not a bad thing.

I read your post about this subject, a running theme in Disney is that you must have faith, be kind, and your wish is granted.

Asha is supposed to be a character who embodies this, she is supposed to be a character full of love and brings happiness for her people while also being a character of faith and supposedly with enough faith to wish on a star.

So she fulfills the criteria of getting a wish granted, making it all the more fitting that a Star is able to come down for her wish.

Yet ironically, she is actually missing her own wish.

Maybe that's a part of what the journey was supposed to be about. Star comes down, but not just to help Asha's people, but help her realize what her wish is so that it could be granted. The journey was supposed to be about Star trying to figure out Asha's wish while Asha tries to find out what is going on in the kingdom with Star's help (I personally think Asha found out Magnifico's schemes too early in the film).

Its interesting because the two having the same goal here is what leads to them learning the story's message. Two characters, trying to fulfill the wish of the other, forcing both to realize what they want for themselves.

I think this could be partly why Star was going to be a playful character loke Peter Pan, it's actually just him trying to understand what Asha wants, and thus, he tries to understand who Asha is. It's a star trying to understand a human being through his own wacky ways.

But through their journey, Star ends up being mesmerised by what he finds in Asha, and Asha is charmed by Star's antics and starts to understand who she is through him.

Having your own wants and needs is okay. Wishing something for yourself is okay.

But it's not some simple, one-sided message either, something that another movie (*ahem*, Raya) was heavily criticised for. This is where the original villains come in.

Remember how the villains were supposed to be Magnifico and Amaya together? A Villain couple? How that's clearly meant to be a juxtaposition to Star and Asha?

If Asha and Star is all about servitude for others, then maybe the Queen and King were supposed to be the opposite, representative of the lesson that Asha and Star eventually learns but taken to the extreme: the selfishness of love. Because love can be selfish and cruel too. (The subversion of what love has been depicted in so many Disney films)

"At All Costs" can have a double meaning. Such a title can have such negative connotations. When you pursue love no matter what, to the point you take away and even hurt those around you for it. They're the definition of "I will sacrifice the world if it means protecting you." kind of thing.

Remember how I said that Star and Asha represent the theme of selflessness by granting people's wishes rather than themselves?

And how in the film, Magnifico TAKES WISHES? Notice something there?

Asha and Star giving, Magnifico and Amaya taking?

Yep, it was all supposed to be a metaphor. Selflessness vs selfishness, giving away vs keeping to yourselves.

The wishes themselves weren't supposed to be the theme, they were probably originally a metaphor for the theme. They represent the wants of the people, Asha and Star serves for them, Magnifico and Amaya takes them away and keeps them for themselves.

This could've been such a unique take on the villains and also their villain song if they went this route. Instead of truly just going against the message, they would've served the second half of the lesson that Asha and Star needs, a warning of what would happen if you do follow the moral and taken it to the extreme. It's the kind of thing that another movie, Raya and the Last Dragon, needed when it came to their moral. This adds complexity to the story's theme. This gives that crucial balance that other films can miss.

Asha and Star would learn that its okay to not be so selfless all the time, but it is also through Magnifico and Amaya that they learn it's not okay to become purely selfish either. They can both serve the people around them while also have pursuing their own wants and needs.

And so, the villain couple gets defeated because they failed to change and grow like Asha and Star did. They never learn altruism, the importance of giving as well.

Oh goodness... imagine a scene where Star sacrifices himself for Asha, she cries for him, and instead of him saying something conforting to Asha, he goes "But I don't want to leave you..." like ALSJSKSNND. He gets resurrected because Asha's wishes for him to come back, and then happy ending but MAN.

And this whole message and theme? If you look at it more, you realize that this even has an underlying subtext about SELF-LOVE.

What a powerful, deep and complex message. If they had went with this and executed it correctly, we could've had a beautiful and most profounding story about the complexities of love, an instant Disney classic in this modern era, joining the ranks of the great movies this year.

And you know what... they threw it all away.

WIthout Starboy, it's all just gone. And they had to make another moral lesson for the movie because they can't do love stories now apparently????

It seems they still kept this "flaw" with Asha, because a character needs flaws.

But with Star being changed, they couldn't make her learn from it. They tried to keep this flaw, but they ended up making her personal life obsolete, because she's no longer allowed to have her own "wants" without going against this established character flaw. Which is funny, cause Wish seems to reveal her being being a bit selfish too. Nothing makes sense with every single trace of the "romantice love" themes being scrapped. She became a character with nothing for herself, and still nothing in the end.

WHAT.

Disney characters often if not, ALWAYS had an "I wish for this" song, they even emphasized the importance of this when making "This Wish".

But they were always something that the character wanted for themselves. The OG Disney Princess had "find true love" as wish for herself, and you're telling me Asha's character arc could've THAT as the point of her CHARACTER ARC???? Are you kidding me!?!?

Imagine, you write a story where the literal moral lesson of the story "it's okay to want to fall in love", the perfect way to bring it full circle, back to the first Disney Princess film, and then Disney just goes "NOPE, SCRAP IT"???

Its so tragic, and also HILARIOUS just thinking at the sheer irony of it all.

You DESTROYED such a beautiful message that also has a subtext of SELF LOVE, on learning that you can serve the the community better by realizing your own wants and needs first????? A subversion yet also a beautiful tribute to the previous Disney films that come before????

I SWEAR IF THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL INTENDED MESSAGE OF WISH, WALT DISNEY, YOU BETTER COME DOWN HERE RIGHT NOW-