Indox is open! Feel free to drop any drawing requests or questions inside <3
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Thunderroseses - Rose - Tumblr Blog
Neptune loves doing his moons’s hair no matter how long it might take, he enjoys every moment of the tediousness long washing process, to the actual styling of their hair.
To the point where Neptune will almost non stop bothering Earth until he creates little beads, butterflies and more for his moons’ hair.
Triton joins in sometimes even if his hair is a different texture compared to the others, Neptune still tries his best to style and cut his hair, he’s had lots of practice doing Uranus’ hair over the years, mostly with braids and bun since Uranus’ hair is very long compared to Triton’s.

I have another idea, I know it’s kinda widely accepted that Uranus uses a cane but what about him having a walker?!
Just something like this
Where he can store all his art supplies in it, so he can just take pull them out when every since with his walking problems it can be hard to carry them alone with him (or mostly depends on how his feeling, some days being worse then others)
NOT ONLY THAT! He could sit down on them as his moons curl on up his lap or hood as he quietly paints, listening to the soft chatter of his moons, Idk if this is really accurate to his relationship with his moons but I’ve seen other people write about this and I’m stealing it >:)
(I think it’s from Thunder_shadows? But I don’t remember what story it was in)
He could also paint it and add stickers (maybe even his own homemade stickers!) to it with his moons and Neptune always adding their own until Uranus notices, to make him smile on bad days, knowing at least someone out thy ere cares about him.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot over the past week and I really want to draw Uranus in different morbidity options (I don’t really know why to call them lol)
I’m sorry for all the nonsense posting but…
What if the giants don’t like yelling at their moons (or yelling in general, YOU SAY HOW SATURN REACTED TO THEIR MOON YELLING AT HIM! His also pretty sensitive anyways but that’s not the point)
We’ve seen how Sun treats his planets vs how they treat their moons, even if it’s not well (for most of them at lest) they’re not screaming and sending solar flares at them for disobeying him and moving out of orbits when he doesn’t want them too.
Even when Saturn’s moons where mad at human he didn’t yell, I might be miss remembering but I think he just cried (?) in response even as they where leaving him, Neptune also NEVER yelled at Triton no matter how mad Triton was at him or after he left (I think Neptune is hiding Triton killing his moons after he got caught in his gravity, if the theory is anything to go by)
Basic the giants are all VERY fucked up kids trying their best to raise equity fucked up children lol
Okay so, I’ve heard something about Uranus and. Neptune swapping orbits so I’ve been thinking
What if Uranus used to be the protector/guard of the Solar System before Neptune but had to give up that role because of a serious injury he sustained? And so Neptune stepped up to take over knowing full well the consequences it might in tale.
Uranus tried hard to convince Neptune other otherwise but it was too late since the Sun already agreed?
You know how Neptune said he couldn’t remember when Triton asked about his origins?while also being able to remember all his other moons, and how mad Triton was??
So what if Neptune dose remember but is purposely keeping it from Triton because he killed Neptune’s old moon after getting captured in Neptune’s gravity but he doesn’t want the small moons to be afraid of Triton because of it or from him to feel bad.
This is based of a theory I heard about triton killing Neptune’s moon after getting caught but that’s just a theory A SPACE THEORY! THABK YOU FOR READING
Haha
Uh, I might have gotten to hyper focussed on The dark Side of the Moon lol
Anyways enjoy, this is the longest fanfic I’ve written! Very fun :D
The Dark side of the moon had always been something to be hidden like he was a disgrace among men, never worth the slightest whisper of his name beside the venomous words of Luna when he even bothered being awake during Luna's few break from watching over Earth, when their body became to tired after slaving away to make sure their orbit was intact and Earth's tilt was just right, he wasn't worth having a name of his very own or even an identity beside Luna's dark side always destined to face away from their planet until the very end.
He would never get to shear the joy that sparks in their core as Luna watches Earth's inhabitants go about they're day life, he'd never get to feel the love they so willingly give back to their moon for watching over them all those years, thanking the Moon full heartily for stabilizing their seas and for keeping them safe as they dance under the moon filled sky, many Earthlings have loved Luna for billions of years and well continue loving him for billions more, while Earth and him never get the same respect, Earth can keep Luna (for the most part anyways) in the dark of the Earthlings true statistic nature, it's him who has to hear Earth's soft whimpers long after Luna has fallen asleep, all while not being able to do a dame thing about it.
He can only slowly orbit as he listen to their planet weep and cry in pain after so many years of abuse, Earth's illusion of grander and endless self-worth being stripped away as soon as the others rest, when there's no one left to judge him for his tears as they could never understand the sharp, piercing pain Earth feels on a never ending basis, his body becoming numb to the pain as the wars continue on and as his very own materials being use to rip apart his surface pice by pice by the selfish men thinking of their own wellbeing instead of the Earthling they so mercilessly killed.
no other planet could have been begin to understand how it feels, not even Mars who had a Earthling base be set up on his surface, as it's only one compared to billions, none of them knew how it felt to be nothing more then a secret side of someone else, forced to watch as other's live the life you always wanted, to be loved and cherish by few but with their love being stronger then hundreds others, being able to feel their planets arms around you rest on their chest, his soft voice singing lolling you into deep sleep, with no care in the world other then the vibrating as they speak to you quietly.
Instead he was delegated to being a bystanders in his own body, forced to listen as Earth kisses Luna's face and whispers how much he loves his 'only' moon, being completely unaware of another just waiting to be heard, as he scream for anyone to notice him just for once, is that really so hard to ask for? He just wants to be hear, just wants to be loved much like Luna is, as said moon begin to make friends outside of Earth, he wishes for nothing more then to be able to experience the same life as Luna has, as he gets to talk with the other moons and joke around with the rocky planet as they play card games or as his surface burns, hot at their planet teasing Luna about his 'small' crush on Titan, he wishes more the anything then to experience the same things! To go through the small yet meaningful moments of being alive, of being able to live instead of being trapped in a body he could barely even consider his own, he wishes to be something more then a shadow in someone else's life forever delegated to be hidden away, never to be seen by anyone.
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It was any other night as he drifted slowly around Earth, looking up at shining stars littering the sky around them, it was probably the only benefits of being awake, instead of trapped away in Luna's mind, he would really watch them for hours on end, never getting bored of the same old sight, it was truly beautiful after seeing nothingness for so many orbits, until Luna decided to give up control for once, and he was grateful for it even if it was just for his other side's benefit, he didn't care, as long as he got to see the stars again, just as he began to get comfortable a voice broke the silences.
"Luna? Are you still up?" Their planet asked as he looked up at them, rubbing gently at his eyes. He could feel their body grow tense as he felt Earth's eye stay focused on them, never looking away even for a second.
"I know you're awake Luna, there's no point in pretending you're not." Earth continues letting out a small huff of air as his natural satellite remains silent.
His throat grew tight as panic set in, their planet had never noticed him move during the night before, why now?! Was the change in tides that noticeable as he went off their usual path? "Ugh! Luna, come on! Why are you ignoring me?!" The worry begin to turn into frustrated as the moon refused to answer him, his voice growing louder as he spoke, he could feel the Earth moving closer to them, his core ached with worry, Earth was never meant to find out about him, Luna made sure of that and would be furious if his secret got out, he needed to wake Luna up and fast! But before he could a warm hand grab harshly onto his arm, unintentionally burning him after so many years of no celestial contact.
"please Luna just talk to me! It's fine if you're upset! But we both promise to tell each other our issues instead of bottling them up!" He could hear the desperation in their planet's voice as the moon remained quiet, only after touching 'Luna' could Earth feel the moon's body begin to shake as fear developed his core, he didn't know what to do! What could he do? Luna wasn't waking up and their planet wouldn't let them escape now.
"..."
Silence filled the air as neither spoke, Earth's grip only grew tighter as worry over took any anger he might have had, a quite "Luna?" Escaped his lips, barely audible in the cold night sky, there was no other sound around them beside the soft snores of Mars near by, "are you okay?" He finished, his planet's voice was soft and loving, like nothing he had ever done heard before, at lest not directed at him, his body only shock more as emotion started to swell in his stomach bagging to be free but instead coming out as small tears dripping down his face, unsure how to act after so long of being relegated into the shadows. "OMG, LUNA!" Earth shouted barely being able to catch the small moon before his knees gave out completely, slowly lowering both of them to the floor as Earth hugged the celestial being as it cries rippled through it's body holding tightly onto his planet's hoodie as his tears wet the soft fabric "shh it's okay, everything is going to be okay" Earth now whispered gently in his ear tucking their silver hair behind it as he did, the planet's other hand rubbing the small circles onto his back, trying desperately to calm the small moon now holding onto him for dear life.
"I-I-I'm not L-Luna!" The small moon cried out digging his face deeper into the planet's hoodie as he did, he could feel Earth's hands stop it's rubbing motion and his breathing growing thin against his ear as he pulled away. He could only let out another loud cry as he feared for what's to come, why did he have to say anything? He could have just stayed quiet and let the Earth sing him to sleep just like he heard their planet do too Luna all those times before!
"Uhhh, w-what?" He could hear the confusion in Earth's voice as he spoke. Feeling the tears wetting his hoodie as the small Moon cried harder into his chest, their fingers griping harshly onto the fabric still refusing to let go, Earth cleared his throat with a cough before he tried speaking again "what do you mean? Bring his other hand originally in his hair down to wrap the small moon into a warm hug, he could help but lean into it no matter how overstimulated it was for him.
"I- (hic)" the small moon began before a small hiccup interrupted him "I...I-I'm n-no-not Lu-na" his voice was rough after so many years of not speaking to anyone but Luna, making his vocal cords striated and hard to use. "I-I'm h-h-is d-da-ark s-side" even after he finish Earth didn't push him away like he had feared, didn't yell and scream at him like Luna made him believe after so many years to listening to Luna's mind making up every possible out come of Earth finding out about him. Instead the habitual planet arm tighten around him, letting him cry into his chest as he resumed rubbing small circles into his back.
But Earth didn't let the silence continue for long before as countless questions began to pop up in his mind "If you're Luna's dark side how come I never heard of you before" their planet asked trying to keep his voice a levelled and quiet as possible as to not scare the small moon again, "how come this is the first time I've meet you?"
"Be-because L-lu-Luna didn't want you too, neither of us did..." he answered, his voice thick as he spoke, turning his head slightly to breath in the cold space 'air' filling his lungs with the fresh air, his brain relax as he stoped suffocating himself with Earth's hoodie.
Earth's brows lowered as he looked down on the small satellite in his lap, listening to their soft breath as they start to calm down, "Why didn't you want to meet me?" He asked, letting the small moon take their time to answer as he continued to rub his back gently.
"Luna didn't want you to hate us for being wired, because we sheared a body, he didn't want me to scare you from randomly showing up one day ..." his mouth felt dry as he spoke, his voice wavering as he finished, he could feel Earth's warm hands move gently to underneath his chin as he lifted his head to look straight into the moon's eyes.
"Oh, Moonlight, I could never hate you, either of you!" Earth said his eyes were soft and loving just like his voice, making the smaller's core melt like sweet honey in hot tea, as their planet's hands move again to cup either side of the moon's face wiping away any remaining tears off his cheeks, "And how could I ever be scared of such a cute face!" Earth's caring voice made him want to cry all over again as relief floods to his core, as all the guilt and hatred he had being lifted off his shoulders, shoving his face into Earth hoodie, before small tears escaped his closed eyes as HIS planet returned to rub his back gently as the shock of the moon's sudden movement wore off, instead Earth quietly hummed to his satellite, a smile etched into his face, as he looked up at the stars above them, his mind wondering as he thought about his moons, "do you have a name? Earth asked before he was able to stop himself "like Luna" he continued his core aches at the moon freezing in his arms.
A quiet "No." was his only answer as the moon fingers traced down the planet's hoodie, enjoying the soft fabric against his skin and the short distraction from the sinking feeling settling in his stomach, he never like thinking about his lack of a name.
"Would you like one?" Earth asked his voice filled with sorrow, as he tried to comfort the small moon in his arms.
"Y-y-you'd do that for me!" His eyes sparkled in the sun's light looking up at the planet, his hands gripping onto hoodie.
"Of course! but now to find the perfect name…" Earth Earth said, his face became neutral as he lend back making the moon prop himself up on his arms, as Earth let his head fall back in deep thought, letting out a small hum as he mind wonder over all the name his Earthlings have called his little moons from the billions of years they've roamed his surface, but none stuck out as he mouthed each one, until he remembered the perfect choice, the Ancient Greek equivalent of Luna's own name, meaning Light, brightness and gleam and while the small moon doesn't shine in the Earthling sky like Luna dose, he eyes sure as hell do, almost bright then the stars around them.
"I got it! The small moon's face lit up as Earth spoke hanging on every word that comes out of him mouth, "you shall be called Selene! A name only for the most worthy of Moon!" Earth boated dramatically his head up into the air, crossing one arm around his chest and another resting onto Selene's shoulder almost like he was crowning the moon with a highly esteemed title (and it was in Selene's mind at lest) only stoping his dramatic performance as a poorly muffled laugh filed the air from the small moon, a smile evident in his face, Selene looked away after meeting the planet’s gazes, slightly embarrassed by Earth seeing them laugh so openly, his core never felt so full…
Earth couldn’t help the small smile from reaching own face, he never knew just how much of himself was missing before he met Selene, any upset he felt at the two moons for hiding Selene for so long, were almost forgiven the moment he saw the small moon’s face light up with joy as he laughed at Earth’s performance, probably the first time in a very long time (Earth’s core ached at the thought but that was a issue for another Lunar Orbit) instead he kept quiet enjoying the moon’s presence before his impulse kicked in, leaning down to press a soft kiss onto Selene’s forehead making the moon freeze in place, as Earth wrapped his arms around the moon, pulling him close as Selene melted into his chest as the world wind of a day began to eat away at his remaining energy, slowly getting lolled to sleep as he felt Earth chest softly rise and fall, the planet running his fingers throw Selene’s hair, said moon let his eyes close, drifting off into a dreamless sleep.
I really think The Dark side of the moon deserves a name like Luna, it’s so wired to me just writing Dark, DAITM or any other variation for some reason, it may be a bit wired but I really want to give him a name as well like Selene, meaning Bright and light, I’m not sure if it was Earth, Luna or someone else entirely who gave him the name yet but I think it’d be nice for The dark side of the moon to have an actual name beside Dark, even though there’s nothing wrong with that name either :)
Also I really want to see Dark getting a more fleshed out character! And learning more on how Luna and Dark work shearing a body together with Luna getting full control of it compared to Dark, who is often hidden from the others, like dose Earth even know of him? If not who dose??? Even if Earth dose at lest know of him dose anyone else do too?? Dark as awhile has so much potential for story telling, and I really want to think of ways to include him in the future. I’ve also been thinking about redesigning Luna’s marks, not only to include Dark but also the other phases of the moon (like the Blood moon and also a crescent/full moon) too.
I’m mostly think of making Dark’s glow purple, probably all the time while Luna’s just glow in the dark, because I think I’d be fun.
I’ve just seen a few stories about him which inspired me to include him more in my drawings and stories, and giving him a name because if Luna can have one why can’t him! Mostly joking, it’s be fun hearing others opinions on what name he could have too! I’m always open to more ideas!
Anyways thanks for reading my ramblings, this is more my ADHD hyper focussing on Solarballs rather then doing more important things like finishing the multiple stories I’ve started but have been neglecting or getting a head start on my homework haha
This Fandom has no media literacy. Especially with Titan.
He is a VICTIM OF MANIPULATION. Ofc he isn't gonna be perfect, even if you believe it's not any justification for the revolution and that he could have said no (that's not how it works) The blame is still mainly on ganymede and Europa stop switching up.
Also he didn't start the revolution out of nowhere it was obviously a conflict that has started when the solar system formed and the earth insulting titan was the final straw.
.
:3
I don’t really like this much but I spent a good amount of time on it -v-
Alec is skipping the middle man (a coffee machine)

Here’s the headcannon generator if you want to try it out for yourself :D
Theory
OK SO I went to the SB theory chat and the topic of Planet X came up (obviously) and the ice giants were brought up too. We started debating on what would happen if they met and if Neptune might’ve even been friends with X and how he might’ve been in the Kuiper Belt alone bc he was looking for X after the ejection. Hence, his insanity. (Credits to Ichiro for coming up w/ that one)
I rlly rlly liked the idea of Planet X having a soft spot for the ice giants- they are similar, closest to the Kuiper Belt, and I don’t think they played a part in the ejection- Uranus likely stayed neutral as a bystander and Neptune might’ve not even known until after it happened, who knows? Regardless, I think the three would be really cool as a friend group.
(Maybe there might be an X ship with Uranus or maybe even Neptune?? I dont know if I’m with those ships or dislike them, it’s just a massive grey area for now cause we don’t rlly know a lot abt X. They be canonized as cousins, or just friends in the show. We’ll see.)
Now, here’s some doodles I made as well! (Pls make X have a soft spot for the ice giants plsplsspl)
A team,,,,,,
Galileanshipping hehehhee
i don’t know if I have other drawings, I don’t save files to my computer so maybe there’s more on Twitter
random drawings :33
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I finally figured our Sun’s marks!
Transcript
Sun(he kinda looks like the eye guy :/)
-He has really choppy hair, since he cuts it himself
-Has sharp teeth, all though very few ‘inherited’ it
Those being
Earth (dark side also has them, but he inherited it from Earth not Sun)
Jupiter, his teeth are more worn out from over uses in the past
Planet X (Who gave it to Titan and Ganymade, since in this au they were originally from Planet X and later token as war trophies by the gas giants)
Neptune (shark boi)
Uranus is the only ice giant that didn’t ‘inherited’ sharp teeth
Transcript
Sharp claws
Mark is covered by scar
Star shaped pupils, his eyes also leak (?) molten lava and what every else his made up of, it’d not harming him in anyways but a bit of a defect from when he was formed

Transcript:
On top there’s the rocky planets, on the bottom is the giants, goo by from the closet to the sun to the farthest (mercury to Mars, and Jupiter to Neptune)
Outside of the centre part are past planets that used to be apart of the solar system, but they are fainter compared to the other planets, besides Planet X since he is still alive and near by the system
Sun’s mark is the only mark you can watch change in real time, everyone’s else almost never change at all, even if you have a completely new planet/star
The moons are kinda scattered around their planets and are really hard to see, kinda showing how they are seen by most planets and stars both in and outside the solar system
The background is a galaxy or milking way, I am planing on drawing this digitally to show it better:)
Adding more backstory whoo!
Sun learnt everything he knows from his mother and than past it onto his planets after they were formed, Sun was still really impressionable and young during this time and passed on a lot of missed up and backwards was of thinking.
One of the bigger ones is seeing moons and planets as trophies as he saw the other stars comparing their planets as if they won something for having the most/coolest planets compared to another star, Jupiter picked up on this pretty past but with moons instead, he used his seer size over them, creating a high archery (Star -> Planet -> dwarf planet -> moons) Saturn was one of the planets that jumped onto this, while Uranus and Neptune didn’t, mostly because they really dislike the two gas giants during this time.
Extra
Jupiter and Saturn praised Neptune after he accidentally caught Triton in his gravity, even if he didn’t mean to and it resulted in the death of his other moons (none of them survived and is the mean reason his hesitant to tell Triton the truth)
 
The Gas Giants in my AU, working on drawing the Rocky Planets next‼️ I’ve been experimenting with my artstyle kinda, so sorry if it switches around a bit!!
And I might change them around a bit in the future-
I think I accidentally made Neptune look like a brit :(
Oh also sorry for the possible low-quality i’m bad at taking pictures lmao, plus my designs might be similar to other peoples designs because my brain recycles everything I see 😭
Transcript Undercut:
Jupiter #1
• Dork ngl…
• he/him cis man
• gay
Saturn #2
• pretty
• he/she bigender
• Pansexual
Uranus #3
• chronic hater
• She/he/they transfem
• Bisexual + Ace
Neptune #4
• get dis bitch a wellness check(up)
• Any (+ neos) genderqueer
• Aroace
[other words in the main drawing that aren’t hcs]
Titania - Titan! Hey!
Titan - hi titania..!
Saturn - Hello Uranus! <3
[Saturn & Uranus doodle]
Saturn - That looks good, Uranus!
Uranus - oh.. thanks, mate!
Uranus, thoughts - Ugh, I didn’t ask… *romantic thoughts* -STOP!!
[Uranus & Neptune doodle]
Uranus - ugh.. I hate Saturn.
Neptune, thoughts - girl, you know damn well.
[Neptune & Jupiter doodle] (i dislike this one)
Jupiter - er.. hey Neptune
Neptune, thoughts - I feel weirdly offended by this stranger!
[Saturn & Neptune doodle]
Neptune - hey, Saturn!
Saturn - why, hello my blue beautiful friend!
[Jupiter & Uranus doodle]
Uranus, yelling at Jupiter - GO AWAYYYYY
writing under that with the arrows - they don’t get along.
[Last doodle]
Uranus - *insensitive joke*
Saturn with arrow point at her - PTSD flashbacks
Titania, disappointed thoughts - have you learned nothing??
I can’t stop thinking/drawing about the sun competition au i made soo i wanted to write a few random facts about because i want to and because i might forget do this will help me remember in the future 😛😛
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-Where would they stay during this??-
Well it would depend on what kind of planet they are.
(Example) Neptune and Uranus would be housed with other ice giants and earth would have to stay with all the other habitable planets.
they’d most likely only see each other during lunch breaks, training, group meetings, and in the crowd cheering for them.
-What uniform/clothes would they be wearing during training and performing??-
It would depend on what their performing
(Example) Let’s say they’re battling, they would probably wear something like this : (the first drawing)
and if they were dancing they would wear something similar if not this: (the second drawing)
(these are still a work of progress and may change)
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idk what else to add 😭 but i might add like what dances/fighting techniques they do while competing, and their roommates. but this is all i have right now so take this lil drawing of neptune and uranus!! :33
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Alec is going through his sad boi era
Slight self-Harm but it’s covered by bandages
 
Totally normal drawing of Neptune and his two natural satellites!! Nothing happening in the background that’s alluding to anything sad! :)
I named them btw..
The green outline one is Benthesikyme.
Red outline is Rhodos.
Both are girls cause girl dad Neptune is calling me.
This is gonna be apart of a fanfic I’m writing about Neptune’s spiral into insanity cause I find the concept of social isolation dumbing him down tp the point he is now super interesting, I’m formatting the fanfic in small journal entries, like a memoir(?)
I’ll probably post it on Ao3
Jupiter & Mithras (Planet X)
These two are lil shits, I think I accidentally made their relationship and saturn parallel with Ganymede, Europa and TITAN. (Edit: I accidentally put Saturn 😕)
Transcript + Yapping:
Zeus & Mithras
- Bestfriends
-Duo from HELL.
-Talented at pissing off Saturn.
In my au during the early years of the solar system, Jupiter is chaotic, (Yeah I know, shocking!! So original lol) pretty rude, and destructive
The rudeness mostly stems from his lack of social skills and he’s destructive because he doesn’t yet realize that he’s the second biggest thing in the solar system, he’s a bit like a great dane that thinks it’s some sort of lap dog here lol
Jupiter is a bad influence on the rocky planets.
Mithras is his partner in crime, often instigating things with Jupiter while also making the destruction he causes minimal. He has most pf the braincells in their little duo.
Saturn does not like Jupiter, he’s a prick to him because he prevented him from going all the way to 1.5 AU.. and because he dragged his ass over to 5.2 AU, Saturn doesn’t like Mithras either but appreciates the fact he keeps Jupiter somewhat calm.
Neptune is the voice of reason, even though he’s the youngest.. he calms down the fights between Saturn and Jupiter often, he’s very tired from it.. he wants a vacation or to change orbits. (..little does he know 😈)
Hi, I hope you're doing well. ❤️ I'm writing to you with full of hope to help me and my family. My family is in a very danger situation due to the ongoing war, and I've launched a GoFundMe campaign to save them. 😢 Could you please share my campaign post from my profile? Each share could be a lifeline for my family. 🙏 Feel free to share it in any other social media platform if you would like. Our campaign has been verified by operation olive branch, and is entry number 26 in their Master List on their spreadsheet. From the bottom of my heart I want to thank you in advance for all of your support and kindness.
Sorry for not seeing this sooner, I don’t check my inbox often
yo wheres that guy that asked for satune?
chibi neptune
He’ll finally get to share his warmth with his dear planets, and consume them with a hug he always wanted to give them but couldn’t until he turned into a red giant :)
i love the idea that sun doesn't want to be a red giant and consume his planets (Mercury, Venus, maybe Earth) , but i also propose the opposite
ive always found the episode where the sun brings up that he'll become a red giant to be a show of excitement for him - its part of a stars nature to eventually destroy what theyve gathered, so consuming the planets is what he wants to do
if anything, consuming the planets is an act of love itself to him - the planets are his sacrifices and he's loving them by consuming them
Venus both past and present :)
Closer up to the other ones