Anti Tenrose - Tumblr Posts

There will eventually come a day in the Doctor Who fandom where i will not hear how Rose is the secret motivation behind every decision of the Doctor's post 2006

But it's been 15+ years so I'm not hopeful

OOO so true. I saw your tags about how nine/rose had her calling him out a lot more, which was exactly what I read and made me like their dynamic a lot more. Then with ten it just felt so much like they 1: enabled each other too much and 2: she was really kind of pushy with him about wanting more from their relationship romanc-y wise.

With nine/rose I really liked how she had the self-respect to be really quite offended when people suggested they were and item and was straight up with him when he was being a twit. They seemed like friends. With ten/rose I got the vibe that being friends was "not enough" and she didn't seem sensitive at all to the legitimate objections he had to having a relationship with a human. IMO RDT actually canonized that Rose couldn't deal with the alien aspects (read: important parts of who he is) of him with the metacrisis Doctor and her conclusion in s4. I mean, I was so offended when she just put him on the spot to MAKE him say "I love you" and then started kissing his clone right in front of him because he could say it... I mean girl, you do remember why he doesn't do that sort of thing right? Because he is always going to have to watch you die? It was so inconsiderate of her smh.

I won't go into the MESS with Mickey because I just tried to pretend it wasn't happening because it was so stupid.

Okay but like from a writing standpoint there is no reason RTD and company had to change the dynamic in this way. If they really are supposed to be soulmates furrevahhhh(TM) then that's just lousy writing. As it turned out, the first assumption I had when watching the shift in the dynamic between Doctor/Rose after his regeneration was that she found him more superficially attractive and therefore started treating him different. However, this writing of their relationship could be granted meaning as an exploration of what type of person would truly be an equal and partner for the Doctor; if this was the case, Rose would truly have served the role of a character who loved the Doctor, but was unable to truly hold space (lol) for his alien-ness, as well as someone who could be swayed by his superficial changes through regenerations because she didn't quite see past the surface.

TLDR: There was no reason for the writers to make the ten/rose relationship less equal and mutually beneficial than the nine/rose dynamic, but this choice could have been easily justified by using Rose as a character to set up some of the traits that would need to be present in a romantic partner for the Doctor through her NOT having them. But RTD decided that he likes her too much so now the writing is just confusing.

I think that even if Rose and Ten hadn't been separated in Doomsday, Donna still would have told the Doctor that he needs someone to stop him, because the dynamic that Ten and Rose had wasn't that.

Unpopular opinion but I didn't like Rose and Ten's dynamic as much as I liked Rose and Nine's. I found Rose and Ten just a little bit too much. Nine and Rose just had this really sweet relationship, like it was the balance of a good friendship and something that was a little bit more and it was perfect. Ten and Rose were more like the really annoying couple you knew in high school, the one where you saw them walking down the hallway and you'd roll your eyes and go "oh, it's That Couple" because they were always just a little too much, imo.

Nine and Rose were just easier to like. They fit together easily. Ten and Rose were kind of smug and just a little unbearable, and felt just a little bit forced.

not to hot take after pulling a sickie all-nighter again but i do think Doctor/Donna would be a more popular pairing if CTate was and had been a thin 20 to 30 year old. like, i feel like there's some unconscious dismissals happening thanks to her not fitting an expect 'type'

yeah yea 'best mates' and 'siblings energy' are valid reasons not to ship it, but like.... I shipped rose/nine like crazy, the chemistry was so good, but I then felt like ten/rose had 'best mates' and 'siblings' energy, yet the default reading of ten/rose is romantic while the default reading of Donna (and Martha lbr) got set to 'that's his FRIEND, it's never romantic' with a lot more people just. never bothering to look at it from another angle or try to see how anyone could want to see them together.

NO ONE IS DONNA Big oof with everything u said about Martha. I was so proud of her when she “got out”, like cheering at the screen, then I found out lots of people thought she was annoying and I was like ??? She’s literally just a queen??? Pure class and smart as a whip. Love her forever. I like to think of myself as a certified t*nr*ose hater lollllll

The relationship between her and nine was just so… pure? I could actually believe she wasn’t cheating on Micky while as an audience understand the chemistry? And then I hated The Christmas Invasion where her entire character is reduced to “oh nu, nu Doctor can do nothing.” I was personally offended by that writing choice. I TOTALLY agree w what you said about her getting over the whole thing so quickly. With how absolutely distraught she was over him regenerating (which is understandable in a sense but must have been pretty hurtful for him) she seemed to get over his personality change too quickly. It really made me resent her for not taking time to really mourn nine, if you know what I mean. I made a whole post about this a while back, but the writing reads to me as Rose treats ten differently than nine because she thinks he’s attractive… which is just bleh. Not to mention basically the first thing they do in s2 is establish she hasn’t broken up w Mickey but is obviously trying to start something w the Doctor. Why??? She’s like a totally different character.

from a structural narrative perspective, the way they handled the regeneration was awful if they wanted me to buy she was his soulmate or whatever RTD says. In view of what actually happens in the show (ahem, Journey’s End, School Reunion, ahem) I was convinced I was supposed to believe that she loved him, but she couldn’t fully commit, or more importantly empathize with, the more alien aspects of him. Which is fine, totally understandable. But that’s why I just can’t get behind them as a couple. I genuinely thought they were setting up that Rose loved him, but she wanted things from him he couldn’t give, partially because she couldn’t give him what he needed as an ageless being who lives a life that humans can’t really comprehend. Someone to empathize with the unknowable, and stop him when he goes too far. and they both move on with their lives, even if they didn’t want to be separated the way they were. I thought it was very mature and a good end. I was pretty miffed that they made her reappearance in JE all about wanting to get back to him, because I wanted her to be her own person! Like she was in s1! You’re telling me it’s been ten years or some and she’s still only about him, not her dad who so much of her character was devoted to??? Not her mum??? Don’t get me started on JE how she just starts kissing his clone w out a toss for hurting him.😤

which was, I might add, perfect setup for Donna being the person who could give him that understanding of his burden, challenge his assumptions, accept his differences, endlessly curious but never pushing for more than he could give…never asking him to be something he’s not… I felt like with her he could have been able to truly have a relationship with an equal. That brought out his better qualities because he finally had that need to be challenged and understood filled. If they had more time, I really think they would have been inevitable. RTD tried so hard to keep them platonic in one packed season and he kind of failed lol, imagine if we had more seasons. Ugh I just love them… especially that they could have been canon without having to go back through the series and scribble out previous relationships. Their connection is strengthened to me as a viewer by the contrast to previous loves. They feel like a warm hug, like coming home. I’m gushing oh no, oh dear.

I just don’t get why The Ship(TM) for so many is t*nr*ose and im a crusty old fanhag about it.

Hey random sorry but I love your account

THANK U SO MUCH!!!! I was looking at the tags u left on my Death and The Queen essay the other day and I was like !💖!

mad respect for the nine/rose content btw, they really were phenomenal. I try to be the change I want to see (read: shamelessly stanning tendonna) but I adored the relationship between rose and nine.

!!!! All of this!

Sorry, I did not mean to insinuate you were saying anything bad about Martha! I was saying big oof to how she was shafted to the rebound role as the first official black companion. Everything you said about her is so insightful. She really was put through the wringer just because of the Doctor. And truly her strength in confronting him with his selfishness changed him so much for the better. U have such a great grasp of these characters wow.

Part of why I love ten and Donna together so much is that she tells him off constantly... and he loves her for it. Even just that fact is so endearing for his character. He's not alone shouldering these burdens and holding entirely too much power, he has a redhead hollering out every way he's ever been an idiot, thinking of the gaps in his perception. And ultimately understanding and affirming when he has no other choice. I always get this sense of immense relief from him in series four. Like he doesn't have to lie. She sees right through him, and she still chooses to stay. I know for a lot of folks this doesn't sound as romantic as the drama and the packed-in romantic teases of ten and rose, but to me the idea of having someone who makes you better, helps you be who you want to be and take up your burdens with you... That resonates as so real and true and I love their dynamic so deeply. I would not be as much of a hater if it wasn’t for the 'truthers' as you say lol. It’s funny, because I loved rose while I was watching through (although in series two I’m pretty sure I was just pretending she was the way she was in s1 lol) but seeing the ultimate end to her character was just… I don’t know. I loved what you brought out about ten lying to keep her from leaving. Makes a lot of sense. What you said about his lie killing part of their relationship? That is so real to me. Like u have put words to it. Honestly I can't analyze the regeneration-as-death thing because it genuinely wrecks me to think about. Denial is my happy place with that. Ten was definitely an idiot for sticking her with his clone, but it was probably from a place of self-loathing. He feels so guilty for not being human, for letting her down by virtue of who and what he is.

I really wish the writers had chosen to end their relationship with a mature parting of ways, and cherishing their memories of their time together rather than .. you know. I feel like that would have been far less reductive of her character.

Hey random sorry but I love your account

THANK U SO MUCH!!!! I was looking at the tags u left on my Death and The Queen essay the other day and I was like !💖!

mad respect for the nine/rose content btw, they really were phenomenal. I try to be the change I want to see (read: shamelessly stanning tendonna) but I adored the relationship between rose and nine.

ONe last RB to have your lovely concluding thoughts on my page :) You're thoughts are so insightful and your delivery is really respectful.

Ten is so terrible. That's why I love him so much. Totally agree about it not being anyone's obligation to fix ten, or anyone. Actually that's kind of why I wrote that long post about Donna's side of the relationship, because often I find that the female character's perspective in relationships is disregarded, so whenever I'm trying to flex my English lit obsession with regards to shipping I make an effort to examine what the female character gets from the relationship (in a 'is this healthy' way as well as how her narrative could be enhanced by the pairing.)

Part of what makes them so compatible imo is that a lot of the time that she’s being/doing what he needs is because it’s what she needs. She searches him out because she wants the excitement and adventure of life on the TARDIS, not because she’s looking for him because he needs her. She expresses concern that he’s still on his own, but I felt like the way she brought it up implied that it wasn’t the reason she was looking for him. She had her own motives, because the adventure was what she decided SHE wanted (ugh the queen). In Pompeii, she doesnt ask him to save someone because it’s what he needs. It’s because she needs it, and it turns out he needed it too. (Take courtesy of my mom lol love u mom)  I see people talking about how she is the Doctor’s equal, but it’s not brought out enough that he is her equal as well. Donna is so smart, talkative, creative, and driven, and he absolutely embraces that. She’s loud, rude, and brash and he appreciates it. I always got the impression that people around her treat her like she’s too much, but with him that’s just being on the same wavelength lol. They are wonderful friends, with so many common goals, and a lot of healthy compromise. They're also totally not perfect and that's another thing I love about them. They feel real to me, because of their bumps and bruises and stupidities and toxicities. Love them to bits.

I will admit it's fun to hate a character or ship sometimes, but not to make people feel bad. I try to tag my critical or anti stuff appropriately so that I can enjoy a good whinge, while making it hopefully easy for people who like that character/ship to avoid.

ALSO SORRY FOR THIS MONSTER POST

Hey random sorry but I love your account

THANK U SO MUCH!!!! I was looking at the tags u left on my Death and The Queen essay the other day and I was like !💖!

mad respect for the nine/rose content btw, they really were phenomenal. I try to be the change I want to see (read: shamelessly stanning tendonna) but I adored the relationship between rose and nine.

Hey random sorry but I love your account

THANK U SO MUCH!!!! I was looking at the tags u left on my Death and The Queen essay the other day and I was like !💖!

mad respect for the nine/rose content btw, they really were phenomenal. I try to be the change I want to see (read: shamelessly stanning tendonna) but I adored the relationship between rose and nine.

YUP. I was talking to my mom about how people say "They're just friends though" and I was like "yeah, the fact that they stay 'just friends' in canon shows that they respect the boundaries regardless of how much the want and need each other, and that makes me ship them way harder."

I've banged on about it in the past, but the narrative literally has this beautiful setup for a contrast/foil between his relationship w Rose vs w Donna. Rose (w ten at least) was always pushing at those boundaries and not really acknowledging the painful situation he was in, and adding to his burdens, whereas Donna was understanding and compassionate about why he (said he) wouldn't be in a relationship. She understood that and was there for him however he would let her be, so she hides her feelings pretty darn well. All while he's realizing that to him she's worth the risk of pain from letting himself love, but thinking there's no way she would want him like that. But he is still desperately trying to woo her without scaring her off lol. Of course she thinks there's no way he could ever want her like that, and after previous heartbreaks, she's totally oblivious to his pretty obvious feelings. She also has no real frame of reference for how differently he treats her than previous companions.

The vibes were also totally different with Donna in a lot of ways. Its hilarious to me that so many people try to determine whether ten was romantically interested in someone by comparing the to the behavior with Rose, when to me there was nothing committed there. Versus with Donna there was only her lol.

For frame of reference, in s2 he invites his hot French gf(?) to come travel with him and Rose, in s3 he wants a nurse who was in love with his human self to come with him and Martha (and seems pretty hurt that she won't), and then with Donna he spends the token "blonde woman who the Doctor spends 1-2 episodes with" less concerned with River than with Donna and only really starts paying closer attention to River when he realizes A) Donna is alive and he has a chance of saving her (phew), and B) apparently this woman is his future wife. And he STILL ends the episode being incredibly emotionally intimate with Donna, talking about their shared future, and making THAT face at her lol. Contrasted with previous companions, he's committed to Donna in a way we hadn't yet seen.

What makes me feral about them is they are trying so hard to protect their damaged hearts but they just can't help but love each other. The affection, companionship, and trust they share makes it so they can't help but be drawn together and help and comfort each other.

Thinking about that post u did recently about how Donna needs the Doctor... BUT the difference is she never begs him for his love... Like I just love that SO MUCH oh my lord. Like they both love and need each other so much, but they're never pushing each other for more than they can give. There's never this ultimatum between them, they're just grateful to have each other in their lives and scared of driving each other away, with neither of them realizing how much the other needs them. It's like the most wholesome angst ever. Gah

While everyone else was begging him to 'love me,' just because he is pretty, Donna didn't do it. He clearly said that he wasn't looking for a partner. And Donna's heart had already been broken. They respected each other's boundaries. That's why they say 'his equal' for Donna. Even his wife wasn't on his level. They were perfect for each other, and everyone could see that. They're not platonic because they don't like each other that way. That's the misunderstanding everyone has. Because the show clearly says they were made for each other.

The tags ahskjahfkdhfkajhdf

All of this ahjkdfhaksdjhfksdjhf

How can he be such a helpless lovesick puppy with her while also being more mature than ever😆

Thinking about that post u did recently about how Donna needs the Doctor... BUT the difference is she never begs him for his love... Like I just love that SO MUCH oh my lord. Like they both love and need each other so much, but they're never pushing each other for more than they can give. There's never this ultimatum between them, they're just grateful to have each other in their lives and scared of driving each other away, with neither of them realizing how much the other needs them. It's like the most wholesome angst ever. Gah

While everyone else was begging him to 'love me,' just because he is pretty, Donna didn't do it. He clearly said that he wasn't looking for a partner. And Donna's heart had already been broken. They respected each other's boundaries. That's why they say 'his equal' for Donna. Even his wife wasn't on his level. They were perfect for each other, and everyone could see that. They're not platonic because they don't like each other that way. That's the misunderstanding everyone has. Because the show clearly says they were made for each other.

It seems like we're expected to not ship Donna and the Doctor because they are individually complex and interesting characters.

Throughout their time together, their interactions are built upon giving deeper insight on who they both are individually, rather than extensive shipping fodder or teasing about the nature of their relationship.

Donna doesn't save the Doctor at the end of The Runaway Bride because she was the only person in the world who could have. She saves him because that's who she is. She is kind, and compassionate, and empathetic, and there's no way she would have left him there.

It's not so much a grand commentary on the nature of their relationship, and how they are 'just so cosmically meant to be', as it is a moment for her to show us (the audience) who she is.

It's not because he already has some kind of undying love for her, he never would have listened to anyone else, or because he's willing to live only for her, or any of that.

It's that she's the kind of person who reaches out and cares even after a really rough day, when the spaceman is scaring her by drowning spider babies.

The moment is about who she is.

And they keep being allowed to be like this, where their interactions aren't relegated to being only about their relationship with each other. If anything the way they interact with each other is used like a launching point to deepen our connection to each character individually.

(Probably because we're not supposed to ship them lol. Okay definitely.)

I have to come back and elaborate on this with further specific Doctor/Donna when I get the braincell back from Bora Bora, but basically:

I love a fictional relationship where the writing is focused on deepening my understanding of and affection for each character individually, and then letting me come to the conclusion, based on an intimate understanding of each character's deepest convictions, insecurities, fears, and values that I want these two to be together.

The thing is, there is a wealth of writing out there that spends all of the character's screen time telling you to ship the characters, all too often at the expense of our investment in the characters as whole people outside of that relationship.

In my tastes, it is far more compelling and satisfying have the chance to fall in love with both characters individually without the writer feeling the need to bathe every moment of interaction in big flashing signs telling me: THEYRE EVERYTHING TO EACH OTHER!!! GET IT? LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!!!

It's so literary to me. Pride and Prejudice isn't iconic because Lizzy and Darcy spend every moment together, talking about each other, pontificating on the nature of their relationship and why a hypothetical reader should totally ship them.

They actually don't have a lot screen time (or page time) together.

It's iconic because we get to see who both characters are, what they value, how their failures affect them, why we should love them both.

And for the majority of readers, loving them both is enough to convince us to love them together. Why? Because we know them well enough to know they will be good together.