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11 years ago

If this is the case, then it would make sense that the frozen cityscape the Snowpiercer passed through would be the last major Russian city close to the location of the Yekaterina Bridge and Tunnel. Given that the speed of the train is 70-80 kilometers per hour, it really wouldn't take the train that long to leave the last frozen urban landscape of Russia and arrive at the New Year's Day marker in the same day (as was shown in the film).

And since we're taking about geography here, I'd like to put in my thoughts as to the exact location of where Yona and Timmy stepped out of the wreckage because the Snowpiercer's derailment happened a day after Happy Yekaterina Bridge. I would go as far to say that Yona and Timmy ended up somewhere in the Verkhoyansk Mountain Range, which is bordering close to the Arctic Circle, and as we all know... polar bears live in the Arctic Circle.

In regards to the logistics question posed by another user earlier, the Snowpiercer would definitely be within Russia by the time the Tail Section rebels take their first look outside the window since New Years Day happens in Russia (the map in the classroom video clearly shows it). And judging by the look of the expansive and precarious Yekaterina Bridge, I'd say Wilford built the tracks through the terrain of the Ural Mountains in Siberia.

Yep I definitely think they should be in Russia, or at least next to it. Probably not a big city though, since it doesn’t seem to have much besides a train station and some buildings (i.e not Moscow).

Now, I was going to argue with your argument, because I had searched on Google Maps, there’s a place named Ekaterina in Russia that can be found, in the middle of nowhere, and it didn’t seem like Siberia to me…

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But actually I know nothing (Jon’ Snowpiercer) because the Ural Mountains aren’t that far!

In Regards To The Logistics Question Posed By Another User Earlier, The Snowpiercer Would Definitely

So yeah it’s possible that the events of this day happen between these two points.

In Regards To The Logistics Question Posed By Another User Earlier, The Snowpiercer Would Definitely

Now all we need is a Russian fan to tell us their opinion, that would be great!


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4 years ago

I think Iroh is the perfect example of a person that radiates opportunism and moral flexibility:

Just as @lbibliophile-atla says, he adapts accordingly to any situation given to him and strives for the biggest personal benefit the particular context can provide him with. He's a Fire Nation Royal? Okay, big military-career, expanding social status, climbing the hirarchy. He's declared traitor by said nation only a few years later and is on the run with his nephew? Alright, fleeing to the city that's most secure at that time, it is. The war is tipping to the disadvantage of the Fire Nation? No problem, Iroh already took precautions for that by joining the White Lotus and playing on two sides a long time ago.

Iroh doesn't seem to be tied to any deeper loyalties or ethics, allowing him to adapt to every circumstance that his life is throwing him into. This makes it possible for him to take on any moral code and behaviour that's fitting the context: Joking about burning Ba Sing Se to the ground and being emotionally invested in liberating it years later isn't that inauthentic, if Iroh sees it as two seperate situations that each needed different behaviour from him.

He doesn't care about Fire Nation ideology. He doesn't care about Ba Sing Se. He cares about things that benefit him in the respective situation.

But does that mean that Iroh, former Fire Nation General, war criminal, teashop-owner and White Lotus member is free of any moral compass? Is everything he does solely for his own - and only his own - benefit?

I'd say, not exclusively.

His opportunistic behavior is immediately stalled when his family is involved: Iroh instantly stopped the invasion of Ba Sing Se when Lu Ten died. He sailed together with Zuko into exile when Zukos own father had mutilated and banished him. Both of these actions were really contraproductive from an opportunistic point of view, but Iroh chose them anyway.

Why?

Because the people he cares about outweigh his ambition to gain the highest personal profit.

Iroh didn't care about soldiers and civilians dying in Ba Sing Se, but he drew the line when his own son became one of the many people who lost their live in the battle. Only then he saw the invasion as a mistake. Not because thousands were killed under his command before, but because Lu Ten became a victim to the war he had greatly contributed to. He doesn't care about the cruel ideology of the Fire Nation, just until his beloved nephew falls victim to it.

Irohs morale is not tied to right and wrong. It's tied to himself and the people he cares about.

So yeah, @gaylord-zuko, I think he didn't really redeem himself or was a good person in general. He was smart, a good strategist and highly capable of adapting to his enviroment. What makes him morally grey is the fact that the love for his family outweighs his Machiavellism and leads him to some of the right decisions.

Hot take: Iroh didn’t actually get a redemption arc in ATLA.

Zuko’s redemption required him to admit that his previous actions were wrong and to do whatever it took to make up for them.

Iroh did a lot of good things to help the protagonists, but we never saw him take ownership of the damage he caused as an imperialist. The way he switches gears once he’s living in the Earth Kingdom and starts valuing the people he was trying to destroy without any acknowledgment of the change makes it seem like…maybe he knew what he was doing was wrong the whole time. Which kind of makes it worse? To me, anyway.

I don’t know, I’m just suspicious of his “redemption” because, unlike Zuko, he never took responsibility for the suffering he inflicted on others despite the fact that he’d been going at it for much longer than Zuko. He admits that the Fire Nation has done terrible things, but he never takes personal responsibility for his own actions. Just because Iroh is a kind and loving person doesn’t mean he’s absolved himself of his crimes.

I’d love other peoples’ input on this if you feel like it!


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