Go To Hell Anon Cause I Care!

Go to hell anon cause I care!

Also I really want to get into Huntress and all her story but the whole comic universe in DC feels very intimidating to me. I've read a couple shorter stories of other characters but was wondering where I should start with her.

Background context on what I know or don't know about her: I don't know anything about her backstory except for vague connections w the batfam and Bruce. The only media I've consumed of her is from Justice League Unlimited (the animation series)

Now that that's out of the way. Where do you think I should start with her comics?

Hello Inkreads!

I was attempting to put together a complete reading guide for you and everyone else, seeing as there are no complete guides for Helena Bertinelli online right now, and the most comprehensive one still has things out of order, messes things up, and doesn't have the Rebirth stuff. This ask inspired me to take that information and try to put the info from the two most complete reading guides together and create something better.

It is taking me longer than I would like, and I didn't want to leave you hanging when it came to getting information on how to read Helena's comics. So I am going to give you a quick run down of some important storylines and comics you should read for the character, and I will also include the links to the incomplete reading lists if that is something more preferable to you, and other ways you can find information on her.

This list and the website I was and am using for my readthrough were given to me by my friend @gretaghostgirl. (Sorry for tagging wanted to given you credit)

So quick note on the picture. You are going to want to read Blunt Trauma before you read No Man's Land.

This is just a list of her main appearances and not her guest staring, and cameos so you might miss some stuff, but this will give you the run down on her story before New 52.

I don't have a list for you on New 52 stuff, or Rebirth, but I can show you the way I keep track of those eras of comics.

League Of Comic Geeks is where I track my comic collection and the comics I have read. It is both an app and website. It will keep track of not just DC but Marvel and other comic companies.

I will be using the app version to show how it can be done. I have purple arrows pointing to things, because purple was the color it was on, but also Huntress themed.

So in the app you have a homepage that looks like this [Here is mine]

Once you click on the search bar your going end up on a page that has this and some more info [I cut down some of the pictures to save space.]

Type in Huntress

Now that you have a search you can look at series, specific issues, and characters. For what we want to do click characters.

Now you are going to have a page with all characters that have used the name Huntress. The Huntress we want for the reading list I gave you is Prime Earth. [But the Helena from Justice Lesgue Unlimited is Earth-12 (DCAU) If that also interests you.] So click Prime Earth Huntress.

You should now be at a page that looks like this. You get some basic information, other personas the character has used, and you can go to Titles, or Timeline. For what we want click Timeline.

You should end up with a list of dates like this. On the right side of the year heading you should see a number. That indicates how many comics/trades/omnis she has been in that year. You can click the number to minimize the year. It can make searching quicker.

I minimized down to 2011 which is right before FlashPoint happened giving us New 52. From here you can scroll. However it doesn't go all the way to Huntress (1989) #1 and some other stuff may be missing because this is only the Huntress version of Helena Bertinelli stuff. IE you won't get most of No Man's Land or her N52 stuff because she uses different names.

To get rid of this problem you can type Helena Bertinelli in the search bar instead of Huntress.

Same steps apply, and you'll get more of her appearances!

Now for links to websites to help you on your reading journey!

1. This website is the huge reading list I am using that is incomplete, and still being ordered around, but is a huge help. [Link]

2. This is the Ao3 link to how to read No Man's Land. No Man's Land is hugely important for multiple characters, and Helena plays a big role in the story, so instead of nitpicking her issues I would recommend reading the whole story if you can. The first chapter is just a rundown of events, but the second chapter is the reading order. [Link]

The Ao3 user who made the rundown and list is @havendance on Tumblr. (Sorry for the tagging, giving credit)

If you have any more questions reach out, and I will help to the best of my ability. And I hope this was helpful in some ways to you.

-Annaki

I agree with everything you have said.

I'll go even further in depth because I want to and this is an excuse to info dump

Cass got whatever that was in the Harley Quinn movie which I choose to just ignore. And while Helena wasn't the worst in that movie it is also a misrepresentation of her character and the complicated way she became a Bird of Prey in the comics. But back to Cass. Her character is not Cass, and honestly there are better DC Gotham Gals that could have been picked for the role. She hasn't appeared in any games as far as I am aware, but did feature in Young Justice TV show. Which was cool. But it was the Young Justice seasons that were limited to HBO and not on regular television or highly rated within the Young Justice TV show fandom.

Helena has gotten a couple of nice things back in the early to mid 2000s [thank you DCAU] but after that she has become the niche for many people despite the roles she played in Gotham and the building of the modern Batfamily (especially when it comes to fanon, and how they borrow characterization from Helena and add it to Jason.) So while she had some good time in the spotlight as her own character for awhile, those days are kinda behind us at the moment.

Than let's talk about Tim. See I have complicated opinions about how DC handles Tim. However I would say that his character has been mistreated and mishandled (just like every other DC character has at some point). But let's look at what Tim has going for him outside the comics as far as TV, and Movie. The DCAU has a disaster of a Tim Drake. Honestly, the DCAU Tim was Jason who got a recolor and was sold as something it wasn't. Just it's not Tim. Then we have those early 2010s movies that are really forgettable. He was Red Robin in them which you know cool, but he wasn't a main player in those movies. I remember one of them focusing more on Batman and Oliver Queen more than anything else. So I would place him in the same spot of having an on screen heyday. His game appearances. Uhh just look up a picture of Arkham Knight game characters and we get a Robin named Tim. But it's not Tim.

So we have three characters that have been in TV shows and movies, but have been misrepresented within that media. One character in a popular Batman game that is misrepresented, one character who hasn't been in any animated project since the 2000s, and one character that has been misrepresented in both a live action and was a minor character in a direct to streaming season of a TV show.

Now let's move onto Red Hood aka Jason Todd. He has shown up in a lesser amount of media, but he was the star of all the media he has been a larger character in. He has his own animated movie that to this day people praise and use within edits and fan content. He has had a whole Arkham game with him as a major player. The game that a large majority of the Arkham players think is the best, and he has multiple Fanshows that Fans have made by themselves on YouTube.

Damian has the most recent and the largest animated presence of all the robins, and any other partner that Batman has worked with. He got multiple movies with him referenced within the title. He has a lot of movies. And although he has been misrepresented, he has a large presence in the animated side of the Batfamily fandom and DC as a whole.

No Man's Land

As I stated previously. Cassandra Cain, Helena Bertinelli, and Timothy Drake have large to very important roles in the whole story of No Man's Land. I will talk about Helena and Cass in this post, and I include screenshots of comic panels. [I also have Image ID information if you can't view photos.]

Helena

In the first half of No Man's Land Helena operated as the second Batgirl. [Although first going by The Bat]. Bruce Wayne was not in Gotham and was basically leaving it to burn, and Helena wouldn't stand for letting Gotham fall anymore. She first tried to help as Huntress, but there was no Gotham-wide symbol to Huntress, although there was with the Bat. She makes her own costume, goes out, and starts fighting back. Laying claim to the territory and tagging building under her protection. A tactic that Bruce would start using when he realized that Gotham had changed in his absence, and he would need to adapt. She would continue to operate despite pushback from Batman, and distance from Oracle. [Oracle believed that Batman had asked Helena or was allowing Helena to operate as Batgirl]. She would up quitting the role when Two-Face and Penguin teamed up to cause havoc among the Blue Boys (the remaining Gotham police) and Batman. She was tasked with protecting the clock tower from Black Mask and Batman ordered her to remain out of sight. It was not within her ability to do so, and she had to jump in the middle of the fight to stop it. Multiple people ended up dead from the fight [Helena did not kill them]. Batman says three strikes you out. Helena operates as Huntress after this.

[Image ID (above): Helena Bertinelli can be seen in a Bat themed costume. There are no eye openings, and the mouth area has been sticked to have the lower face cover by the same or similar material. On her chest is a bat logo that is outlined in yellow, but the inside is the same colour as the rest of the costume. She is conversing with a pair of blonde and brunette boys that she saved from having their coats stollen.

Helena: Doesn't this symbol mean anything to you?

Blonde: Well yeah--but you're a girl. We thought you were trying to trick us, make us believe you were the Batman, to, like, get our coats.

Brunette: Yeah. Everybody around here is out for themselves.

Helena: (pointing to a yellow spray paint tag the same or almost the same to the one on her chest that is painted on the brick wall) This is the bat. In this town it means criminal beware.

Brunette: So then, like, you work with Batman?

Helena: How do you know I'm not Batman?

Brunette: You're a girl!

Helena: If you were a big tough guy and you got beat up by a girl, would you admit it? Or would you say it was a huge giant . . . .seven feet tall with fangs and claws that took you down?

Blonde: Point.

Helena: Tell your friends--as long as there are people in Gotham, there'll be a bat.

Blonde: All this time she was a girl. Do you believe that?

Brunette: I dunno and I don't care. All I know is, is she saved our butte. The Bat rules. ]

[Image IDs: Both images are from the same conversation so the transcript will be kept together. Do note that part of the conversation has been cute. Helena in her Batgirl suit and Batman in a suit that has the logo in a yellow circle are in an underground bucker/hideout. They have just come back from a night of stopping gang violence.

Batman: Rest.

Helena (as she is messing with her cowl): It's not fatigue. It's frustration----I was too slow.

Batman: Than be faster.

Helena: Great advice from the man who perfected the vanishing act. Where have you been?

Batman: Taking the trash out.

Helena: where do they [the criminals] go? The ones we take down, I mean what happens to them?

Batman: You don't want to know.

----

Batman: Don't let that happen. Keep the tower safe.

Helena: I could use a little help.

Batman: I am needed elsewhere. You're on this alone. Protect the tower, and try not to be seen.

Helena: I can do one or the other, not both.

Batman: Then your not worthy of the mantle. Of course, you could prove me wrong--]

[Image ID: The words . . .get worse can be seen on the top left corner. This was the finishing words of Helena's monologs. At the top of the page in the middle the words Mosiac: part two announce that this panel is from the Mosiac arc of No Man's Land. Helena is mid way through finishing her jump into battle at the entrance to the clock tower. She has thrown a canister of gas with a black bat logo on it.

Helena: You can stay down or you can fall down. . .but I can guarantee you won't be getting back up again. ]

[Image ID: Bruce Wayne dressed in his full Batman suit, Richard Grayson is dressed in his full Nightwing suit, and Helena Bertinelli is in almost complete Batgirl costume except for her cowl.

Batman: Six people are dead. My fault as much as yours. You want to keep that cowl? I have to be able to trust you. I have to know that you'll follow orders.

Helena: I tried--

Batman: trying isn't enough.

Batman: You were to stop Black Mask out of sight of the clocktower (Batman puts pointer finger up on an otherwise closed fist), you failed. I told you not to follow men when I took Black Mask into custody. You disobeyed (Batman indicates second offence with a middle finger joining the pointer), I told you to protect our territory, our people . . .(Batman indicates third offence with a ring finger joining the pointer and middle) but Two-Face now commands that land. And six more bodies are in the ground.

Helena: And you blame me?

Batman: No. I hold you responsible. As I hold myself. ]

[Image ID: Batman is pictured standing in the middle of a silhouette of Nightwing, and the maskless Helena. This is directly continuing from the last page.

Helena: You think I don't know what happened? You think I can just forget that they're dead?! You think I can sleep at night?! You think that I can forgive myself?! You left me alone yo face 200 of Two-Face's goons! What was I supposed to do?]

[Image ID: The conversation moves forward and the tail-end of the argument continues.

Helena: --But I don't take orders and certainly not from you!

Batman: That's the problem.

Helena: Not mine. Not anymore.

Helena: (speaking to Nightwing who has a hand on her left shoulder.) Don't touch me.

Helena: I won't be what you want, Batman. Don't ask me. I can't.

Batman: Then stay out of it. You'll only get in the way.

Helena: I can't do that either.]

Cassandra

For the first half of No Man's Land (Winter and Spring) she did assignments for Oracle (information and supply hunts). During the Mark of Cain arc where David Cain was hired by Two-Face to kill Jim Gorden and Barbara Gorden, Cass jumps in between them because she knows that David would not kill her. She impresses Batman during this arc and is given a gift. The Batgirl costume that Helena had been using, but had recently given up. Unlike Helena, Cass had the blessing of Babs to become the next one to use the mantle.

[Image ID: Cassandra and David Cain are outside a room where both Barbara Gordon and Jim Gordon were just questioning Cass about how she knew David Cain. She is standing in front of the door, and the shots that David let out of his weapon miss Cassandra. She then proceeds to stare him down and then leap at him and give him an uppercut. David Cain loses a tooth and starts bleeding. Cassandra then stares at her right hand which is covered in David Cain's blood. ]

[Image ID: Barbara, Cassandra, and Batman are all in a room together, one that holds Barbara's stuff. Barbara is holding an older Black and White photo that depicts herself when she still operated as Batgirl. She turns the photo around to show Cassandra.

Barbara: I can't thank you enough.

Cassandra points to the photo. While Batman remains a darkened shadow in the background.

Barbara: Yes, that's me. It was a long time ago. Take it. I want you to have it.

Batman: Oracle. Call them. (Referencing the allies of the Bat)]

[Image ID: Batman is pictured holding a box in front of Cassandra. To the side Barbara Gordon (Oracle), Timothy Drake (Robin), Richard Grayson (Nightwing), and Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael) watch the scene play out in front of them.

Batman: Remember that.

Oracle: Honor it.

Cassandra proceeds to open the wrapped box revealing a black suit with a yellow outline symbol of a bat. Helena's old design.

Batman: You can change in the Bedroom. ]

This is only the first half of No Man's Land. Get rid of Helena and you don't have the second Batgirl, you don't have Helena knowing how to take back Gotham, you don't have someone who despite her thoughts on Batman knew that it was the symbol that Gotham needed at the time to start to come back together.

Get rid of Cassandra and now there is no third Batgirl. She isn't there to stop the fight between David Cain and Batman peacefully. She isn't there to save Babs and Jim.

By replacing them with Damian and Jason you get two characters that are important to the themes that this story has, and the message it is trying to send.

This is only the beginning and I could have rambled for longer, but Tumblr has an image limit and I am not breaking this up into parts.

I'll tell you though anyone else who may be reading this and hasn't done so check out No Man's Land. It's a good story and you won't regret it.

DCs been giving us a lot of monkey paw situations lately so I think we should make a game of it with random scenarios, I’ll go first

We get an animated series or movie based on no man’s land

BUT

they replace Helena, Cass and Tim with Jason and Damian

curious : how did yall get into reading dc comics?

i genuinely dont care if the creation of all media comes to a screeching halt btw i will very gladly live with no new movies no new tv shows no new anything for years if that's what it takes for the people who create them to be treated like human beings. i hope every other facet of the entertainment industry goes on strike too and i hope all the ones that havent unionised yet will. i want media creation to become completely impossible and i want the people who could make it possible again to hold out until they get every single thing they want. btw

I have pictures of the birds that come to mind with the tags I have put in. [It gives me an excuse to show pictures of birds]

Tim inspired by a Red Winged Black Bird

Tim inspired by one of the Corvid birds

I found this picture with a bunch of crows, and thought it would be cool to add just to show bird types.

Tim inspired by a Cardinal

Tim inspired by a Masked Crimson Tanager

Is Blackbird Tim an AU you have, or is it just a better name than Red Robin?

Its a popular superhero name for Tim for after Red Robin since many agree that Red Robin is supposed to be a temporary name and he has since long outgrown Robin. I am not sure whose idea it was but the mutual circle have been passing the idea around a lot.

jesus fucking christ