Shes Littlebut Shes Strong.

She’s little…but she’s strong.

I have a suggestion to the anti Targaryen people in fandom who bemoan (Wrongly BTW) that the Targaryen’s are evil colonizers.  If you are so goddamn pressed about colonization, maybe you should help out your fellow indigenous people.  Maybe if you are so goddamn pressed about a fictional feudalistic family who you wrongly perceived colonized Westeros, you can give back your land to your local indigenous people.  If you are a white person whose ancestors benefited from colonization, you need to shut your mouth about what YOU think is colonization, because guess what?  What the Targaryen’s did was conquest.  However what the First Men and the Andals did was actual colonization.  So either look at the proper definitions of things so you can speak accurately about them, or you need to shut your mouth about things that you don’t understand.  You misrepresenting colonialism is you cheapening the word, and cheapening the generational trauma and the near eradication of religion and culture from real indigenous groups who faced countless horrors and forced assimilation and are still suffering from it.  So educate yourselves.  However, I suspect that the vast majority of you are clinging to the word “colonization” as a reactionary excuse to justify your dislike of Dany and by extension House Targaryen.  Because if you all actually cared about colonization and imperialism and genocide you wouldn’t be misusing this word, and you’d actually be trying to help your fellow indigenous people one way or another, which you all aren’t.  So as a fellow indigenous person who actually understands colonialism, I’m kindly asking you to back off and stop trying to justify your hatred or dislike of something by misappropriating this word.

Do Dany and Jon have any parallels?

Yep! They do. In fact, I’d say that they have parallel journeys in many regards. They are both on very strong identity arcs.

While Sansa and Arya’s journeys are more about growing up and holding onto their identities, Dany and Jon’s are more about asserting their identities and discovering them in fact.

What I mean by that is that Dany and Jon begin in a place where their identity isn’t fully formed. They are searching for it, for a home, for a place of belonging. Moreover, they are trying to figure out just who they are and what they want. Over the course of the novels, they come into themselves while many of the other characters actually fall apart in some regards.

Also, they are the two best examples of young leaders and the trials they undergo in the novels. Their stories really illustrate the battle against their inexperience and moving forward (“kill the boy and let the man be born”, “if I look back, I’m lost”.)

I think there’s a reason that both of them truly rise at the end of ASoS and fall at the end of ADWD. What I mean by that is that at the end of ASoS, both Jon and Dany have seemingly found their footing, their leadership. Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch and Dany has taken residence and rule of Meereen as its queen. Then AFFC is off for both of them. They begin ADWD with confidence and commands and find themselves trapped between a rock and a hard place everywhere they look. For example, Jon’s inner turmoil over the wildlings and letting them in as well as Stannis’ presence at the Wall and evolvement with him/support given to him.

 If I put my seal to this, I will forever be remembered as the lord commander who gave away the Wall, he thought, but if I should refuse … 

Jon Snow read the letter over until the words began to blur and run together. I cannot sign this. I will not sign this.

He almost burned the parchment then and there. Instead he took a sip of ale, the dregs of the half cup that remained from his solitary supper the night before. I have to sign it. They chose me to be their lord commander. The Wall is mine, and the Watch as well. The Night’s Watch takes no part. 

 “Surely the lord commander cannot mean to allow that … that demon through as well?”

“Not gladly.” Jon had not forgotten the heads the Weeping Man had left him, with bloody holes where their eyes had been. Black Jack Bulwer, Hairy Hal, Garth Greyfeather. I cannot avenge them, but I will not forget their names. “But yes, my lord, him as well. We cannot pick and choose amongst the free folk, saying this one may pass, this one may not. Peace means peace for all.”

The Norrey hawked and spat. “As well make peace with wolves and carrion crows.”

“It’s peaceful in my dungeons,” grumbled Old Flint. “Give the Weeping Man to me.”

“How many rangers has the Weeper killed?” asked Othell Yarwyck. “How many women has he raped or killed or stolen?”

“Three of mine own ilk,” said Old Flint. “And he blinds the girls he does not take.”

“When a man takes the black, his crimes are forgiven,” Jon reminded them. “If we want the free folk to fight beside us, we must pardon their past crimes as we would for our own.” 

And then there’s Dany who doesn’t know what to do with her dragons, the pale mare, the refugees from Yunkai, and the fighting pits.

“I hope you have come to show me his work and not to plague me further about the fighting pits.”

He made a deep obeisance. “Your Grace, I fear I must.”

Dany grimaced. Even her own people would give no rest about the matter. Reznak mo Reznak stressed the coin to be made through taxes. The Green Grace said that reopening the pits would please the gods. The Shavepate felt it would win her support against the Sons of the Harpy. “Let them fight,” grunted Strong Belwas, who had once been a champion in the pits.  

“It shall be done, Magnificence,” said Reznak mo Reznak. “What of these Astapori?”

My children. “They are coming here for help. For succor and protection. We cannot turn our backs on them.”

Ser Barristan frowned. “Your Grace, I have known the bloody flux to destroy whole armies when left to spread unchecked. The seneschal is right. We cannot have the Astapori in Meereen.”

Dany looked at him helplessly. It was good that dragons did not cry. “As you say, then. We will keep them outside the walls until this … this curse has run its course. Set up a camp for them beside the river, west of the city. We will send them what food we can. Perhaps we can separate the healthy from the sick.” All of them were looking at her. “Will you make me say it twice? Go and do as I’ve commanded you.” Dany rose, brushed past Brown Ben, and climbed the steps to the sweet solitude of her terrace. 

And by the end, the very people they have attempted to rule, win over, and even trusted have turned on them and made attempts at their lives (with Jon’s being more successful obviously.)

Their journeys parallel each other this way. I guess they will continue to mirror each other as next book sees something of a rise from the ashes for them. It’s always darkest before the dawn and all.

Looking away from general narrative parallels, there’s a few more I’d like to point out:

Both are incredibly stubborn though not beyond listening to advice most times

Both think on the family they never knew quite a bit (Dany with Rhaegar and Aerys especially but all Targaryens to some degree and Jon with his mother)

Both are motivated by a desire to make their previous generation proud (“let it be known that Ned Stark had four sons” and Dany’s desire to fulfill a duty to her unknown family and her ancestors)

Both have desire-driven love affairs (Daario and Ygritte) that distract them from their assumed purpose in some respects

Both had a close relative that made them feel unworthy, unwanted, and guilty of something they had no control over, who’s memory still bothers them long after they are dead and gone (Catelyn and Viserys)

Both begin as outcasts and cannot seem to find a place of belonging (bastard in Winterfell/wildling lover and traitor; Westerosi in Essos/the foreign queen of both the Dothraki and Meereen; lone Targaryen on the run)

They are both haunted by the lover they couldn’t save and blame themselves for their deaths (Khal Drogo and Ygritte)

Both have an affinity and connection to at least one dangerous, legendary creature (dragons and direwolves) complete with dreams that are not merely dreams

Admittedly, this is just all off the top of my head, there are many more to be sure. But I definitely believe that Dany and Jon have many similarities. 

What do you think of the theory that the targaryens' dragon dreams pre-dany is actually dany hatching the dragon eggs, and they mistaken dany as themselves?

genuinely believe that like how the red wedding was a crime of such gravity that the violation of sacred guest rite literally tore a hole in the narrative and is causing time and reality in the riverlands to refract around itself and open asunder, what daenerys did at the end of AGOT was SO huge, this literal nuclear bomb of magic rippling out into the timeline, that it pinged the radar of generations of Targaryens before her who were tuned in to dreams like that. They’re little psychic aftershocks of the big one but none of them knew how to interpret it (how would they?) and so they killed themselves concluding that they were dany. they’re not dany.

Will Dany love Jon more than the throne? She loves him and he loves her. Many ants think she will love the throne most. Thats how hey get their evil Dany theories to work. However, most people would be willing to give up on an ambition if the price was grievous harm to a loved one. Everyone hates Stannis for doing the reverse. Which way will Dany go? She wants the throne but she doesn't really 'love' the throne does she?

Dany will absolutely love Jon more than the throne because Dany doesn’t “love” the throne at all. I would argue that Dany is only seeking the throne out of a sense of duty and responsibility both to her birthright/family name and the common people. She has been raised on the belief that what Robert’s Rebellion did to her family is a great injustice, one that she must right in order to redeem her family name. Even once she learns that her father was an evil man and that his death was perhaps justified, she still believes (and I would agree) that the fates of the rest of her family were an injustice/murder. She similarly believes that the common people are suffering and oppressed under the current system (which they are) and seeks to liberate them by “breaking the wheel.” So her quest for the throne has nothing to do with personal desires or gratification and everything to do with what she believes is right. 

We can see this both in her character and choices–both book and show versions–and in the things Dany thinks about in the books. Across the books, the word “throne” is mentioned in her POV chapters a total of 46 times. This includes Viserys’s dialogue about this subject, of course, as well as any time anyone else has mentioned this to her. But “common people,” “my people,” and “your people” (when others talk to her about her people) are mentioned 72 times. Most tellingly, “home” is mentioned 68 times, and “love” a whopping 128 times. Dany is not after the throne out of some misguided plan for power, wealth, or glory. She never thinks about any of these things. She’s more interested in helping others and possessing the power to do that consistently. 

Even Tyrion knew that Dany cared more about family than power. He said as much to F!Aegon:

“I told you, I know our little queen. Let her hear that her brother Rhaegar’s murdered son is still alive, that this brave boy has raised the dragon standard of her forebears in Westeros once more, that he is fighting a desperate war to avenge his father and reclaim the Iron Throne for House Targaryen, hard-pressed on every side … and she will fly to your side fast as wind and water can carry her. You are the last of her line, and this Mother of Dragons, this breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. The girl who drowned the slaver cities in blood rather than leave strangers to their chains can scarcely abandon her own brother’s son in his hour of peril. And when she reaches Westeros and meets you for the first time, you will meet as equals, man and woman, not queen and supplicant. How can she help but love you then, I ask you?” –Tyrion VI ADWD

There’s no F!Aegon in the show, but Jon is actually Rhaegar’s son, a man fighting a desperate war who Dany has met in Westeros, eventually (in my opinion) come to respect as an equal, and loved as a man, just as Tyrion predicted. I don’t think Dany will care more about her claim than about Jon himself.

Even in the show, Dany has twice now (both in the HOTU vision and when she lands at Dragonstone) walked right by the throne instead of touching it, called instead to a higher purpose. I think this literal action is also symbolic of her evolving priorities. 

Further, we can see that she desires a family and love far more than she does a throne. Even Daario, whom she admits to herself doesn’t really love her, but more the idea of her as queen, is enough to make her question her entire journey.

“I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought … but he had not asked it, and never would. Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved.“ –Daenerys VII ADWD 

If she would have given up her throne for Daario, can you imagine how much more willing she would be for Jon?

What she wants more than anything is the safety and freedom of her people, but as far as her presonal goals are concerned? What she wants most is a family and someone who genuinely loves her. Remember, she has literally never had this with anyone. Her mother died birthing her, leaving Viserys as her only family, and we all know the reality of that relationship. Dany has been, for all intents and purpose, alone for her entire life. For Jon to love her, really love her, and want a family and a simple life with her, would be much more important to her than any throne. Her own “dream” is for something like that:

“In her dream they were man and wife, simple folk who lived a simple life in a tall stone house with a red door. In her dream he had been kissing her all over–her mouth, her neck, her breasts.” –Daenerys II ADWD

It’s worth noting that Jon has similar dreams:

“When the dreams took him, he found himself back home once more, splashing in the hot pools beneath a huge white weirdwood that had his father’s face. Ygritte was with him, laughing at him, shedding her skins until she was naked as her name day, trying to kiss him.” –Jon VI ASOS

They both dream of a simple life where they are loved and happy, home at last.

So no. Dany won’t love the throne more than Jon. And if they both live until the end, I really do believe that their happiest endgame wouldn’t be ruling at all. Like I’ve said before, I’m ok with and would be happy with an endgame of Jon and Dany as king and queen of the 7K, but I think it’s equally likely that after saving the world and instituting a new system of government they might flee to find a semblance of the life they’ve always dreamed of, together :)

Gotta love all those people crying about incest who act as if Dany and Jon having sex is more immoral than 30+ year-old Drogo raping 13 year-old Dany. Incest is wrong because it can cause genetic defects and is often non-consensual (the older person taking advantage of the younger person) but I don't get how consensual relationships between adults of the same age who don't even know they're related is worse than child sexual abuse?

I know … People are so close-minded, and very ignorant about incest in general. Incest simply means sex between people who are related by blood. It is not “non-consensual” by definition. I have read scientific articles about it. Incest causes genetic defects only because it results in homozygosity, which means possessing two identical forms of a gene. In itself homozygosity is not bad (we all are homozygotes for some genes), but it increases the chances of being affected by deleterious (harmful) traits. There are very few practical studies made on the subject (because nowadays people don’t practice incest), most of them are theoretical, but this increase is not enormous. Besides, there is also something called “outbreeding” (the opposite of inbreeding,) which can also have bad consequences on the genes.

But anyway this is a quick scientific explanation (that you didn’t ask for I know I’m sorry) of incest in our real world, and the point I am trying to make is that real incest is nowhere near as dramatic as people think it is. 

Incest in ASOIAF is completely different. Targaryens and Valyrians didn’t suffer from any physical or mental deformitites - not more than those who didn’t practice incest. The Valyrians were, and by far, the most superior, advanced and powerful civilization on Planetos. They rode dragons, tamed volcanoes, built scyscrapers, used magic, and were the driving force for development and evolution in the world. Not to mention they were stunningly beautiful. So clearly inbreeding didn’t affect them in a negative way. The famous “Targaryen madness” that some members of the House displayed was an excess of cruelty, and there are no genes for cruelty. I don’t think it has anything to do with incest but rather with the dragon blood they have in them. Arguably the cruelest person of House Targaryen was Aerion Targaryen (Master Aemon’ elder brother) and he was not inbred at all. Neither his parents nor his four grandparents were related. Yet he still had the “Targaryen madness”. He is the one who drank wildfire because he believed it would transform him into a dragon.

And about the love part, I am so tired of fighting this battle … I don’t see anything wrong with two people loving each other and wanting to be together. One of the reason I ship Jaime and Cersei is because they are the only consensual couple among the main and recurring characters in ASOIAF till now (Jon and Daenerys haven’t yet met). All the other relations are either rape (Daenerys and Khal Drogo), arranged marriages (Catelyn and Eddard), prostitution (Shae and Tyrion), coerced sex (Ygritte and Jon) and so on. People are disgusted by incest although it is based on love and desire, but are fine with rape, arranged marriages, and other forms of abuse … 

Another thing that annoys me to no end about Jon and Daenerys is that fans of House Stark believe that the House didn’t practice incest … lol. Nobody in Westeros practices sibling incest apart from House Targaryen, but cousin marriages and uncle/aunt/niece/nephew marriages occur regularly. People who think they know House Stark are claiming that Jon was raised according to “Stark morals” and is “too honorable” for incest (as if incest is dishonorable), meanwhile here I am clutching my book The World of Ice and Fire in which it is plainly written that at least two Stark men married their nieces, and cousin marriages were regular. I don’t know what they will do on the show (with D&D you can never know, maybe they will even make Daenerys concerned about incest), but book Jon certainly won’t be much disturbed by the fact that she is his aunt.

Anyway. The excuse people use against incest that “children can have genetic defects” is just that, an excuse. A lot of people believe Daenerys is barren and can’t have children - yet the same people are still against Jonerys because “it is incest!”. Why would they be, if they think she can’t have children? Incest is taboo in our world, and they’ve been conditioned to be against it. And very few people are able to look past what they’ve been taught, even in a Fantasy book series.