Dany And Her Silver In The Dothraki Sea (the Shallow End At Least)

Dany and her Silver in the Dothraki Sea… (the shallow end at least)

I don't really know of anyone who ever said that Elia would be jealous of Lyanna. To be quite honest, I've never, ever seen that before, but then again I do not look for anything Elia related.

George said that he pictured the Dornish as more Mediterranean rather than African:

So Elia is not PoC in George's eyes. Feel free to debate that, I suppose, but it is pointless to argue with the literal author.

Where was it said that Rhaegar allowed any of them to suffer? He put Jaime in charge of protecting Elia and their children, Jaime dreams this:

Prince Rhaegar burned with a cold light, now white, now red, now dark. "I left my wife and children in your hands." (Jaime VI, ASoS)

It is very clear that he did not want any of them hurt. Elsewise he wouldn't have told Jaime to watch over and protect them.

We know *something* about his relationship with Elia and it was that he was fond of her. In love with, maybe not, as it was a relationship that was borne out of politics.

The old knight hesitated. "Princess Elia was a good woman, Your Grace. She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit. I know the prince was very fond of her." (Daenerys IV, ADwD)

It is the "she smells Dornish" line that has Rhaegar feeling even more distant to his father. Even before then, when he married Elia, they moved to Dragonstone rather than the Red Keep.

Your other point about not doing anything because he didn't care can easily be refuted by certain passages in the series:

Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime's shoulder. "When this battle's done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but...well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return." (Jaime I, AFfC)

--

This is known: The tourney was first announced by Walter Whent, Lord of Harrenhal, late in the year 280 AC, not long after a visit from his younger brother, Ser Oswell Whent, a knight of the Kingsguard. That this would be an event of unrivaled magnificence was clear from the first, for Lord Whent was offering prizes thrice as large as those given at the great Lannisport tourney of 272 AC, hosted by Lord Tywin Lannister in celebration of Aerys II's tenth year upon the Iron Throne.

Most took this simply as an attempt by Whent to outdo the former Hand and demonstrate the wealth and splendor of his house. There were those, however, who believed this no more than a ruse, and Lord Whent no more than a catspaw. His lordship lacked the funds to pay such munificent prizes, they argued; someone else must surely have stood behind him, someone who did not lack for gold but preferred to remain in the shadows whilst allowing the Lord of Harrenhal to claim the glory for hosting this magnificent event. We have no shred of evidence that such a "shadow host" ever existed, but the notion was widely believed at the time and remains so today.

But if indeed there was a shadow, who was he, and why did he choose to keep his role a secret? A dozen names have been put forward over the years, but only one seems truly compelling: Rhaegar Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone.

If this tale be believed, 'twas Prince Rhaegar who urged Lord Walter to hold the tourney, using his lordship's brother Ser Oswell as a gobetween. Rhaegar provided Whent with gold sufficient for splendid prizes in order to bring as many lords and knights to Harrenhal as possible. The prince, it is said, had no interest in the tourney as a tourney; his intent was to gather the great lords of the realm together in what amounted to an informal Great Council, in order to discuss ways and means of dealing with the madness of his father, King Aerys II, possibly by means of a regency or a forced abdication. (The Fall of the Dragons—The Year of the False Spring, The World of Ice and Fire)

It is unfortunate that you are weaving a large amount of headcanons and obvious bias in your post here.

We know what kind of man Rhaegar was like through Daenerys, and these are remarks by people who knew Rhaegar.

This particular passage is after Dany said that *she did not want any rapes*.

"I will not have her harmed," Dany said. "I claim her. Do as I command you, or Khal Drogo will know the reason why."

"Ai, Khaleesi," Jhogo replied, kicking his horse. Quaro and the others followed his lead, the bells in their hair chiming.

"Go with them," she commanded Ser Jorah.

"As you command." The Knight gave her a curious look. "You are your brother's sister in truth."

"Viserys?" She did not understand.

"No," he answered. "Rhaegar." He galloped off. (Daenerys VII, AGoT)

If Daenerys wanted to protect a woman from being raped and Jorah mentioned that she was like Rhaegar in that moment, exactly *why* would Rhaegar harm his own wife by assaulting her?

"Just so," she agreed. "I think we should attack from three sides. Grey Worm, your Unsullied shall strike at them from right and left, while my kos lead my horse in wedge for a thrust through their center. Slave soldiers will never stand before mounted Dothraki." She smiled. "To be sure, I am only a young girl and know little of war. What do you think, my lords?"

"I think you are Rhaegar Targaryen's sister," Ser Jorah said with a rueful half smile.

"Aye," said Arstan Whitebeard, "and a queen as well." (Daenerys IV, ASoS)

Moreover, Ser Barristan mentions this:

"Some truths are hard to hear. Robert was a...a good knight...chivalrous, brave...he spared my life, and the lives of many others...Prince Viserys was only a boy, it would have been years before he was fit to rule, and...forgive me, my queen, but you asked for truth...even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways that Rhaegar never did."

"His father's son?" Dany frowned. "What does that mean?"

The old knight did not blink. "Your father is called 'the Mad King' in Westeros. Has no one ever told you?" (Daenerys VI, ASoS)

No one, literally no one, thinks that he was mad. No one except for Robert.

There is also nothing to suggest that Rhaegar lived for himself, that he thought he was the most important person in the world, or that nothing else mattered to him. Again, he made Jaime watch after his wife and children.

Moreover, about the Prince that was Promised prophecy, it is very obvious that said topic was what he read of in the scrolls that made him decide to become a warrior. Now that we know the Targaryens knew of the Long Night and the disastrous events that were to come as a result, perhaps he thought that the hero to defend against the Others would be of the Targaryen bloodline. So his very action, his thought, would have been to protect the realm and to fight on the side of the living, to ensure all live another day.

Which...would in turn make it a very selfless act.

I dispute the part about Lyanna here, and for very obvious reasons:

The reason why Jon was told the story of Bael the Bard and the Winterfell flower he had plucked was to tell him the story of his parents. Lyanna is very much so tied to blue winter roses:

Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood. (Eddard XIII, AGoT)

--

Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses. (Eddard XV, AGoT)

...and Rhaegar to being a bard:

"Prince Rhaegar's prowess was unquestioned, but he seldom entered the lists. He never loved the song of swords the way that Robert did, or Jaime Lannister. It was something he had to do, a task the world had set him. He did it well, for he did everything well. That was his nature. But he took no joy in it. Men said that he loved his harp much better than his lance." (Daenerys VI, ASoS)

The tale says this:

"No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says...though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me." (Jon VI, ACoK)

The son in this story is analogous to Jon, though Jon will not be a Lord Stark, but the next King in the North, for a time, at least, legitimised by Robb through his will.

But beside that, there are a lot of deliberate blank spots in regards to the true story of Rhaegar and Lyanna, but it seems to me that George intends to make it a tragic love story.

We actually have a relatively good idea of what kind of woman Lyanna was like by being inside Arya's head, as they are often compared. There is nothing to suggest that either Arya or Lyanna wouldn't be (in Arya's case)/were not attracted to men. Again, this is your headcanon speaking and has little basis in the books.

Wanting to fight and be a knight does not make one less feminine or make one unattracted to men. Brienne is a very feminine character and is brilliant with a sword. Arya does not actively dislike dresses, she doesn't really complain about wearing them, and the only time she wouldn't wear one was when it wouldn't be practical to do so.

They don't know me, Arya realized. They don't even know I'm a girl. Small wonder; she was barefoot and dirty, her hair tangled from the long run through the castle, clad in a jerkin ripped by cat claws and brown roughspun pants hacked off above her scabby knees. You don't wear skirts and silks when you're catching cats. (Arya III, AGoT)

Arya absolutely does not like being called a boy and corrects anyone who mistakes her for one. Here is one example:

"The steel must be part of your arm," the bald man told her. "Can you drop part of your arm? No. Nine years Syrio Forel was first sword to the Sealord of Braavos, he knows these things. Listen to him, boy."

It was the third time he had called her "boy." "I'm a girl," Arya objected. (Arya II, AGoT)

Not fitting the gender norms does not make one more or less feminine or likely to be lesbian/gay/etc, it just makes one refuse to be put in a box that society makes for them.

Well, that's quite literally the thing. We *don't* know the nature of Rhaegar and Lyanna's story, or why he did what he did. Lyanna, it appears, was the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

*My* particular headcanon is this:

On the ground the sleeper sat up beneath his furs. Jon slid his dirk free, grabbing the man by the hair and jamming the point of the knife up under his chin as he reached for his—no, her—

His hand froze. "A girl."

"A watcher," said Stonesnake. "A wildling. Finish her." (Jon VI, ACoK)

In a similar way that Jon was hesitant to kill Ygritte after discovering that she was a woman, perhaps Rhaegar felt the same after discovering Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. And admired her for it.

There isn't anything in the books to suggest Rhaegar was "a monster," to Lyanna or to Elia.

Blood Purity and the ASOIAF Fandom

I find it very ironic how Targaryen antis scream about "blood purity" then turn around and support and play into blood purity themselves. Specifically I'm talking about Stark stans and stansas/jonsas.

The Starks canonically prefer to marry with Northern houses, in other words: other First Men. This tradition gives them a rather small gene pool, meaning that incest is pretty much a necessity for them to carry it on. Uncle-niece, aunt-nephew, and cousin weddings were all allowable, and cousin weddings were rather commonplace.

What all that means is that the Starks practice blood purity. Yes, it's different from how the Targaryens did it, but the only differences are that the Valyrians allowed brother-sister marriages and there are only two other Valyrian houses to marry. The Celtigars barely even count, due to how little Valyrian blood is left in them. Both the Starks and Targaryens did marry outside their preferred gene pools. However, that fact doesn't negate that they both practice blood purity.

Stark stans who condemn the Targaryens for marrying to preserve their Valyrian blood are hypocrites. The Starks prefer to marry other First Men and allow certain forms of close incest, if they had as few options as the Targaryens did, they would probably change their views on brother-sister marriages.

Stansas tend to follow the same patterns as Stark stans. They ignore Stark incest and talk about "super special Stark genes" in an almost cult-like fashion. Stansas will go on and on about how the Starks are very special and their (specifically Sansa's) blood is the key to saving the world. Now, there is magic blood in ASOIAF, and the Starks are the one of the families with this. However, the sheer hypocrisy of Stansas and Stark stans to embrace and cheer on this fact for the Starks while simultaneously despising the Targaryens for the same fact is interesting.

Jonsas, who are all stansas just to be clear, are probably the most hypocritical in this group. Jonsa shippers will espouse both anti-incest and anti-blood purity arguments, especially in regards to the Targaryens. However, at the same time, they will write posts about how the incest between Jon and Sansa wouldn't be wrong and how Stark blood is superior. Just like the Stark stans and stansas, they are unironically supporting Stark blood purity. All three of these groups will also write about how the Targaryen bloodline needs to be wiped out.

So basically: Stark stans, stansas, and jonsas all not only support Stark blood purity, but also the eradication of Valyrian blood in Westeros. The hypocrisy is riveting.

This is why people don’t take your cry of “Misogyny!” seriously bc you cant even step away long enough to realize that if you really care about the message this story has to make about feminism, you would care about Sansa Stark as well.

Oh please, so for my hatred of misogyny to mean something I must bow to Sansa Stark lmao???? Nah. She was scheming against Dany before she even met her, the moment Petyr laid the seeds of chaos, Sansa made sure she saw the harvest – Sansa told Daenerys to her face that “women manipulate men blah blah blah“ – so fuck off with your fake feminism.

Rhaenyra's Victory

The "nobody won the Dance" argument is so ridiculous and just flat out wrong. Certain fans (read TG stans), constantly argue that, because Rhaenyra and Aegon both died, the Dance had no victor. GRRM clearly disputes this in both F&B and ASOIAF.

In F&B, the end of the Dance is clearly in favor of the Blacks, despite Rhaenyra's murder. Cregan Stark and the rest of the Black forces took KL, forced the last of the Green supporters to surrender, and placed Aegon III (Rhaenyra's oldest surviving child) on the throne. After that, the last of Aegon II's line died with Jaehaera, leaving Rhaenyra's as the only legitimate and surviving royal line. That means, in simple terms, Rhaenyra's family won the war. They were the survivors of the war and ruled for the rest of the Targaryen Dynasty.

Speaking of the rest of the dynasty, there's a second way GRRM makes Rhaenyra's victory clear, and that's through Daenerys Targaryen. Despite the Blacks winning the final conflict of the Dance, male primogeniture was accepted and reinforced throughout the following kings' reigns. Baela and Rhaena were passed over as options to be Aegon III's heirs before his marriage to Daenaera. Daena and her sisters were passed over in favor of Viserys II and his children. Vaella was dismissed in favor of Aegon V. The first woman to be named heir to the IT since Rhaenyra was Dany, something done purely because she was Viserys III's final surviving relative (no, the relatives in other houses don't count).

No matter the reason Dany was named as heir, she eventually succeeded her brother as the head of House Targaryen and the rightful ruler of Westeros. After becoming the head of the house, she awoke dragons from stone and became Khaleesi of her own Khalasar. Dany then began a conquest across Slaver's Bay and eventually conquered Meereen and became its queen. Thus she became a conqueror and queen in her own right.

Despite House Targaryen embracing the sexist Andal traditions about succession, the future of the house now rests on the shoulders of a woman. Dany is the final ruler belonging to the house, a queen regnant who overcame every man who stood in her way. Not only that, but she awakened dragons from stone, thus beginning to heal the damage done by the Dance and the greens' misogyny.

Dany, a woman, is the savior of House Targaryen and arguably one of its most powerful rulers to date. She not only is continuing its legacy, but is bettering it. Rhaenyra's legacy is her female descendant who will save not only the house but the whole goddamn world. Dany enacts radical social change in Essos, rules her city well (as much as she can with the slavers' interference), and brought dragons, the key to defeating the Others, back into the world. Daenerys is Rhaenyra's final victory over the greens' misogyny and treason.

“we need more complex female characters” y’all could barely handle a teenage daenerys targaryen trying to abolish slavery...