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It doesn't seem like you got the whole point of the post, you are arguing that Zuko wasn't himself because he was a nervous wreck, but guess what? He was also a nervous wreck with Uncle Iroh mostly in book 1 and in the first half of book 2 (*and keep in mind that Uncle Iroh is literally the closest person to him), that's literally how Zuko is, he's an angsty and anti social teenager who doesn't easily open up to anyone, my whole point of the post is that Zuko and Mai didn't make any sense, and him being "comfortable" with Mai was totally at the expense of mischaracterizing him with literally zero building up of this nonsensical relationship, you can check my post where I explain why Zuko's ooc with Mai and not Jin, yes Zuko may have been pretending to be a guy named Lee but he was still acting in-character and he started to be comfortable with Jin when she asked him to juggle, when I say he was being himself with Jin, this is the moment I meant to refer to as the starting point when I claim this statement (*sorry if I haven't explained further in my original blog), the difference is that in his date with Jin, he was getting to know her for the first time but with that said he still became comfortable with her eventually, meanwhile with Mai, she was a childhood acquaintance to Zuko, she wasn't a total stranger to him so the stakes aren't high there

Even tho I don't ship Zutara anymore, but I found it worth noting how Zuko is characterised more fairly in these specific shots of him with Katara than 99% of the scenes of him with Mai (*bruh even Mai was ooc but this is going to be for another discussion)

I already have many issues from book 3 especially in terms of characterisation, but Oh God, Zuko had the most awful ooc moments with Mai (*the beach episode sums it up), like I cringe whenever I see them together on screen💀

He's not even being Zuko with Mai, He's just a different person named "Zuko" (*the same applies to Mai), and it's really insulting not only for Zuko and Mai but for the fans as well

But let's be all honest, Zuko had such a spot-on characterisation in his scenes with Jin! (*not to mention the cute chemistry) He was really being himself in the Tale of Zuko

It took me so much time to realise this until I recently reread the early spiderman comic and rewatched tasm movie, is the way Peter discovered his power for the first time ever and how tasm movie was accurate to comic in that regard

Peter first displayed his power in the comic when he leaped to the nearby wall of the building on reflex as a response to threat (*which is the car fastly approaching him), similarly, in tasm movie, Peter first displayed his power when he leaped to the ceiling of the metro on reflex as a type of alarming response, the other common thing is that before the happening of the response, Peter neither noticed nor saw the thing upcoming due to in both cases he was either preoccupied or sleeping

There is a great reply on youtube that explains in detail the reason why Peter only reacted to the droplet of water but not the bottle being placed on his forehead:

Also something I really love about how Peter discovered his power in tasm movie, is that the movie really emphasised how Peter was having a hard time to control his power if he put a bit aggressive force into something which is just like how Peter first discovered his power in the comic, he easily crashed a steel pipe even tho he didn't intentionally put much force into it but because of his superhuman strength any bit of aggressive force can be enormous, I love that tasm movie expanded on this aspect more than the comic and other adaptations because it would be realistic to see in regular basis how someone having superhuman strength would break many things unintentionally and this power can be destructive, in the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie we only got that on a very superficial level like when he hit flash, but that's about it, we don't get anything else besides that, we don't see how he interacts with objects like really hard solids, but I love that this aspect was more explored and emphasised in tasm movie and is more accurate to the comic

This is just one of the many reasons why tasm movie (in my opinion) is the best live-action adaptation of the comic, it has so many great overlooked details that I could spend time talking about

This is one of the best atla critical posts I've seen and I'm glad I'm not the only who realised how Book 3 had many mischaracterizations and poor writing issues, That's why I adore Book 1 because it's the main establishment of the characters and Aang is such an intriguing and loveable character that totally got screwed up like other characters in Book 3, and unfortunately many fans can't realise the poor writing and mischaraterization and tend to think that Aang is actually "toxic" but the writers and bryke are the one to blame not the characters

How Bryke & Kataang Ruined Aang’s Character in Book 3

It was impossible for me not to notice the massive difference in characterization between Books 1 / 2 and Book 3. I ALWAYS wondered why the writing quality plummeted in Book 3, and I know I wasn’t the only one, judging by the forum reactions at the time. It was so obvious that something felt off, even long before I had any knowledge of the writers’ disagreements about shipping that plagued Book 3 behind the scenes. So hearing about the shipping conflict and cancellation of Book 4 made perfect sense and explained a lot.

It would seem that after Book 4 was scrapped for that shitty movie, the decision was made to pair Aang and Katara (even though there’s proof this was NOT the original plan), and the characters’ personalities got badly warped to accommodate this last minute decision. Yeah…it’s probably not a good idea to change such important elements in the story so late. It had a severely negative impact on the story and characters as a result. It left gaping plot holes, and the characters frequently said and did things completely out of character. When Bryke said Kataang “felt a little forced,” I think that might have been a bit of an understatement…

I’m not gonna pull any punches here, so prepare for very harsh and intense criticism. I’m gonna explore how Kataang and the writers who pushed it (Bryke and John O’Bryan) ruined Aang’s character; morphing him from a terrific character, into a much more horrible one. I plan on covering Katara next, but let’s focus on Aang:

In Books 1 and 2, Aang was portrayed very consistently. He displayed a wide range of emotions, had depth, flaws, and was more or less portrayed very realistically for a playful 12 year old monk with the weight of the world on his shoulders. You gradually learned more about him as the story progressed. His strengths are best shown when he helps build a zoo for the animals in Ba Sing Se. His optimism, sensitivity and sincerity are on full display and he is shown to be a very likable character.

He worries about the effect the war is having on the world and has nightmares about being unable to control his Avatar powers and unintentionally hurting people (even Zuko, his enemy!). He shows remarkable compassion and a true respect for his responsibility to try and stop the war and prevent anymore death and destruction. And he tries to do something about it when he agrees to General Fong’s plan. He shows he takes his position as Avatar seriously and is aware of the effect the war has on people.

We also see him have to work to overcome some of his difficulties in order to get stronger. His more passive, avoidant nature is challenged by Toph as she teaches him Earthbending. He actually has to work to achieve things, showing he isn’t perfect. 

His weakness is best shown when Appa is taken, and Aang shows his grief, anger, and vulnerability. He is shown to be a flawed human, and not superior the rest of his companions. He even violates his “no killing” philosophy by killing the buzzard wasps. He is compassionate, but not overly idealized. He is a complex, multi-dimensional character.

He has strong feelings for Katara, but he obviously values their friendship. She may not share his romantic feelings, but he cares for her and respects her as a person. He doesn’t force himself on her. Now let’s look at Book 3…

The Awakening (Writer- Aaron Ehasz) Book 3 starts off well. Aang has emotional depth in this episode. He struggles with his failure to master the Avatar State and defeat Azula, is troubled by the guru’s warning about his attachment to Katara and his sealed 7th chakra, and runs away under the pressure. He is shown to be human and greatly affected by what happened to him in Ba Sing Se, both physically and mentally.

He then eventually has to overcome his pride and conceal his Air Nomad identity. He is portrayed as a complex human character with emotional depth who struggles with both his responsibility to the world and the emotional toll it takes on him personally.

The Headband (Writer- John O’Bryan) This all changes by the very next episode however. All of his inner conflicts seem to disappear and we get a disgustingly cutesy, saccharine episode devoted to him teaching kids how to dance and wooing Katara. All of his concern about the guru’s advice is forgotten permanently from now on, creating a giant plot hole later. Apparently the Nick execs pushed for Kataang in order to not “make 6 year olds cry” and I have no trouble believing that in the slightest, considering how unusually childish many episodes in Book 3 were, compared to Books 1 or 2, which had far, far more sophistication.

This episode marks the start of Aang’s more juvenile, 2-dimensional portrayal from now on in the series; he becomes a far more simplistic, airheaded character that constantly gets pushed on the viewer as 100% morally pure. He morphs from a flawed, multi-dimensional humanized character into what I can only describe as a Gary Stu-ish character who the viewer often cannot take seriously. An author’s pet, basically. Sadly, this episode could have actually developed Aang’s character, since it was originally going to be about Aang and Kuzon’s backstory. We get an early glimpse at how Kataang interferes with fleshing out Aang’s character.

The Avatar and the Firelord (Writer- Elizabeth Welch Ehasz) Aang fares well in this episode, though. His old personality seems to be retained and we see him learn about the history of the war and the ill-fated friendship of Roku and Sozin. Outside of Roku’s awful dating advice (and probably the fart joke…), it is a pretty good episode for Aang. He even learns a little about his parents and Monk Gyatso.

Nightmares and Daydreams (Writer- John O’Bryan) Then we get a Kataang episode. I was disappointed at the childish way that most of Aang’s nightmares were portrayed in this episode. It was hard to take his fears seriously when he’s having dreams about flying pigs, Appa and Momo talking, losing his pants and…failing a math test? Um…ok? Clearly, there was a concerted effort in Book 3 to appeal more to the very young demographic of the fans. It’s too bad, because previous seasons were able to appeal to children just fine without alienating the older fans (who buy more merchandise). The humor is just very cringeworthy compared to Book 2 and Aang comes across more like 8 years old instead of 12 or 13.

The same goes for his dynamic with Katara. She is trying to calm his nerves, and instead of the focus being on the upcoming invasion, we see him obsessively dreaming about her, then almost unable to control himself around her. It’s definitely not a very flattering portrayal of Aang. He never displayed such…creepiness in Book 2. It’s weird how Aang acts MORE immature in the episodes that they want to push him as a love interest. We see here how Kataang interferes with the seriousness of the plot.

The Day of Black Sun, Part 2:The Eclipse (Writer- Aaron Ehasz) Yet later, after the invasion fails, he is back to being a complex character. He displayed a lot of courage and determination at taking on the Firelord even against the odds, and we see how emotionally distraught he is when he fails. He shows that he takes his duty seriously and really wants to end the war.

It doesn’t last long, though. In The Western Air Temple, he’s back to running away and goofing around yet again, ignoring all his problems, and making Katara have to baby him.

The Southern Raiders (Writer- Elizabeth Welch Ehasz) The Southern Raiders exemplifies the conflicting ways Aang is portrayed in Book 3. Bryke altered the script from its original version, so on the one hand we have “Guru Goody-Goody” Aang. Lacking in any subtlety or complexity and his dialogue existing only to preach to the audience on how “good” Aang’s position is in comparison to Zuko, who the audience is supposed to see as “bad.” Bryke’s DVD commentary uses Aang’s moral “goodness” as a reason why he is a better match for Katara. We see here how Kataang distorts Aang into being a self-righteous jerk.

Which he NEVER was before. He was never, ever this condescending or preachy in Book 1 or 2. Not even to Jet. Someone who Katara liked, and who attacked him previously and tried to get him to help wipe out innocent people. Yet, he never lectured him and even seemed willing to try to understand and help him.

It really is insulting, not only to the characters, but to the fans. Avatar was such an incredible show, because it didn’t tell you what to think. It presented complex subject matter with respect and nuance and let the characters be realistically human. You really could empathize with all of them, even when they made bad choices. They were not mouthpieces for obnoxious, trite, kindergarten-level “moral lessons.” Or spoonfed shipping.

And yet, at other points in the episode, you can clearly see the complexity that Elizabeth Ehasz intended to portray. Aang’s position is not, in fact, so simple. We see that although he may have been right that exacting vengeance on Yon Rha was not necessary for Katara’s emotional well-being, Zuko’s approach to support her no matter what, even if it meant killing a man, was actually very helpful to her. He accepted her flawed, darker side, in a way that Aang could not. They both had valid points, and neither one is necessarily good or bad. There was no need in this episode to demonize one character or position, or force a viewpoint on the audience.

Later on, Aang is even challenged on his philosophy and is forced to confront the moral dilemma of his pacifism. Zuko is absolutely right, and Aang’s distaste for killing needs to be challenged if he wants to protect the world against Ozai. Aang may have good intentions, but in reality, that is not always enough. The ending handles Aang’s moral dilemma with the seriousness that it deserves, and you can empathize with both his and Zuko’s feelings regarding Ozai’s fate.

The Ember Island Players (Writer- John O’Bryan) Yet in the very next episode, Aang is back to being ridiculously childish. He reacts in a very jealous and possessive manner, just because of some dialogue in the play.  The story never asks us to view Toph’s crush on Sokka in the manner it does with Aang’s crush. Aang gets special narrative treatment that no one else gets. 

And the sad thing is, he never acted that immature when Katara had a crush on Jet. In fact, he took it in stride, and thought Jet was cool. He even wore the hat Katara made for Jet. Even when Jet returned later, Aang didn’t act that jealous. Sokka made a joke about Katara kissing Jet, and while Aang didn’t like that, he did NOT act like this. So, we see how Kataang distorts Aang into a possessive, entitled brat, which he never was before.

In Book 3, he behaves in an immature, entitled fashion, and the story not only never calls him out on this, but it ultimately rewards him for his lack of consideration at the end. Aang is twisted into an unrecognizable character yet again.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King (Writer- Michael Dante DiMartino) Oh look, it’s Guru Goody-Goody again! This episode may be the most egregious example of Aang’s moral dilemma being trivialized. Aang is presented as ridiculously naive and silly. He states, with apparent seriousness, that he may be able to get Ozai to come around by showing him his baby picture. Are you kidding me? I guess Aang is now 4 years old? He did NOT demonstrate this type of naivete or stupidity when he agreed to let General Fong help him master the Avatar State. Here we see how Bryke’s writing of Aang distorts him into a complete and utter dimwit.

Even worse is that, the way the episode is written, it makes Aang out to be the reasonable one, while his friends are made out to be big meanies who just can’t understand Aang’s poor, delicate feelings. Aang’s self-centeredness is made into a virtue, and apparently we are supposed to be impressed with his “morality.” It really is ridiculous, and Avatar was always much, much better than this. It may have been a Nickelodeon cartoon, but it was sad to see it come to this, given its previous mature writing.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters (Writer- Aaron Ehasz) Yet, in the next episode, an attempt is made to make Aang more authentic and relatable. His past lives tell him that he needs to put the world’s needs above his own feelings. He seems to take this seriously, and for the first time, emotionally and mentally prepares himself for the very real possibility that he may have to take a life for the good of the world. He may not like it, but he doesn’t want to let the world down again, like he did 100 years ago, or in Ba Sing Se. He expresses maturity and emotional depth that you can empathize with, unlike in the last episode.

The Lion Turtle then touches his Heart Chakra and Third Eye Chakra, representing compassion and psychic ability, respectively. This foreshadows his eventual ability to take away Ozai’s bending. Unfortunately, instead of earning it through sacrifice and selflessness and unlocking his Crown Chakra, thus mastering the Avatar State on his own, the Lion Turtle’s gift turns out to be a Deus Ex Machina, due to the way the next 2 episodes are written.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 3: Into The Inferno (Writers- Michael Dante DiMartino, Bryan Konietzko) In this episode, Aang cowers, and avoids his problem. He is unwilling to make a tough choice. It wouldn’t have been so bad if it weren’t for the way his dilemma is “resolved” in the next episode.

Sozin’s Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang (Writers- Michael Dante DiMartino, Bryan Konietzko) Thankfully, he is bailed out by the Rock of Destiny, just in time to magically reactivate his Avatar State (in contradiction to all logic), so he never has to give anything up or grow as a character. He never has to make a tough choice, or put his own feelings aside for the sake of others. His selfishness and inability to consider anything but his own needs is rewarded by pure luck.

This nonsensical plot hole was no doubt created so Aang could end up with Katara and not have to give up his attachment, thus opening his 7th chakra. We see how Bryke and Kataang completely butchers the metaphysical aspect of the Avatar State and creates a giant plot hole that many fans still try to make sense of to this day. They will never be able to though, because it never made any sense to begin with and Mike and Bryan know this.

The narrative then hands his crush to him on a silver platter, after doing a pitiful job of developing their “romance”. He never has to grow up, alter his perspective, learn from his mentors, or do anything to advance as a character. He gets the girl even though he displayed a worrying lack of respect for her feelings when she was disinterested, and a frankly unhealthy level of emotional attachment to throughout the series. And this is presented as “romantic.” He is portrayed as the perfect hero, who obviously earned the girl, despite her not sharing his feelings previously. We see how Kataang robs Aang of potential growth and character development he could have gotten by overcoming his needy puppy love. And we see how it robs Katara of her romantic agency.

This was so disappointing as a fan. Books 1 and 2 set the bar so high with characterization, so it was very sad to see this happen to the series due to Bryke’s writing incompetence and shipping bias. I would have preferred no pairings happen if it meant the characterization stayed consistent in quality. This is NOT even the fault of Aang’s character, but solely a result of the way Bryke distorted him. Their attachment to Aang’s perfection was a severe detriment to his character and his previous believability and likability were all throw out the window. He never seriously developed in any way by the end, and he is awarded a serious relationship despite displaying the readiness of a 4th grader.

If you take away Kataang completely, you’re left with a version of Aang that is far more respectable, interesting, likable, and realistic. He is a sweet, fun, charming boy, and it would have made for far more interesting and compelling character development to see him mature and eventually outgrow his rose-tinted glasses puppy love. He would have seen that Katara can still be a valued friend, but it would be healthier for them both if he wasn’t so needy or desperate for her affections. He would become more independent and confident in himself as a result. Instead, he was warped into an obnoxious “ Nice Guy™ ”, and his character deserved far better than that.

So much time was wasted on forcing Kataang that we barely learned anything new about Aang in Book 3. Book 4 could have delved into his past, his parents, Kuzon, his relationship with Gyatso. It could have really fleshed out his character as he struggled to deal with the consequences of energybending and letting go of his puppy love as he looked for surviving airbenders. Instead, he got warped into Bryke’s creepy Gary Stu self-insert.

Worse still, Bryke attacked the fan base for noticing a sharp decline in writing quality in Book 3 and disliking the atrociously written pairings. And they insult the fandom’s intelligence by lying about the change of direction that the story obviously took (yeah, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to notice the GIANT plot holes…). It wouldn’t bother me so much if Avatar wasn’t so good in Books 1 and 2 thanks to the other writers, which Bryke’s writing is an insult to. And if the other writers’ plans for the ending of Book 3 and scrapped Book 4 weren’t so much better and more interesting compared to what we ultimately got. I feel sad as a fan that we got robbed of the story that was originally being set up with Books 1 and 2 and Avatar never got to fulfill its true potential as a story and will forever remain incomplete. But hey, at least we got the live action movie, right?

Just to start by saying that I'm both anti-maiko and a Jinko shipper (*I would say I'm a #1 hardcore shipper for it)

I will state the things that I agree and disagree with you in your answer:

"I think basing that opinion on his relationship with Mai is selling him short" I totally agree, infact I think it's more worse than people mostly seem to realise is that THE RELATIONSHIP ITSELF IS OOC AND DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE therefore they will act ooc and the writers themselves are aware that this relationship makes no sense hence why they write zuko and mai ooc 99% of the time when they're together

and regarding the seashell scene, I think it's dumb and ooc for Zuko and I will explain why, while I do agree with you that Jin will be content and appreciate any simple acts from Zuko (in contrast to Mai who is barely ever interested in anything) but I think the real thing we need to acknowledge in this critical engagement is that Zuko was literally mischaracterized awfully in "the beach" episode (*even the other characters had ooc scenes in the ep but this is for another post) so you can't really use this seashell scene as an example about how Zuko would act because it's already dumb and occ for him

And to explain why it's dumb and ooc I will use the Tale of Zuko as an example on how Zuko's characterization and awkwardness was actually in-character compared to the beach episode

So how did "The Tale of Zuko" portray his awkwardness right?

In the beginning of his date with Jin, Zuko had his hair done by uncle Iroh, since he seems to trust his uncle and always see his wisdom, he believes in his decisions and didn't really bother to pay attention if it's bad or good, and also because Zuko doesn't really have an experience (*and it's his first time) and is also anti-social so he handed it to his uncle and got along with it

In the restaurant is were things start to get nervous, Jin asks him questions and responds calmly then when the waiter came to them and referred to Jin as Zuko's girlfriend, Zuko exclaimed that she's not his girlfriend and pounded his fist on the table, and all the people in restaurant turn their eyes on Zuko and Jin, Zuko then realise he embarrassed Jin (*also a note Jin was described in the script as "nervously" slurping the noodles) Zuko of course wants to somehow cheer her up with a compliment but he doesn't know how or what to say but then said what came to his mind at the moment

PAY ATTENTION TO ZUKO'S BODY LANGUAGE AFTER, he fiddles his thumbs nervously and lowers his head and turns his view to the other side, HE RECOGNISED HIS BLUNDER AND HIS AWKWARDNESS and stayed silent until Jin moved the conversation, and Zuko wanted to respond more smoothly

Jin asks him about where he and his uncle came from, of course Zuko has to lie but he can't clearly think of a convincing lie that's why he seems to pause and talk slowly when he tried to bring up his travelling and circus story, so it's normal in this situation why he would be awkward which was pretty realistic actually when someone doesn't know how to lie

Then the moment Jin asks him to juggle is where things start to change, Zuko started to open up more to her and he doesn't want to disappoint her and refuse her request even tho he doesn't know how to juggle but tried to do it anyway so to not disappoint her but he awkwardly failed to do it

This segment really portrays his awkwardness more realistically within context and in-character for Zuko and doesn't trivialize his awkwardness or his temper (*unlike the beach episode)

At the fountain he gives her a gift which is a coupon- it's a simple yet a proper gift which Jin appreciated and Zuko said it was his uncle's idea, like I said before he trusted his uncle's decisions and since it's Zuko's first time and he doesn't have experience I would assume he didn't think of the idea of giving Jin a gift and he followed his uncle's advice by giving her this gift because Zuko is aware he might not think of a good idea for a gift hence why he followed his uncle's idea

Now let's get to the point on why the seashell scene was dumb and ooc for Zuko

The second he saw a random seashell he immediately gave it to Mai (*He didn't even give it a second thought?) I'm not saying a seashell would necessarily be a bad gift (*it would be a proper gift for someone who has a hobby and interest of collecting seashells) but it's actually trivial if you think about, I mean it makes no sense that Zuko would see it and think this might be a proper gift to give to someone, and out of all the people, he specifically gave it to Mai (who's uninterested and bored by almost everything)??? It's not like Zuko is still getting to know her for the first time, this scene makes him rather dumb and ooc

And the line "Don't girls like stuff like this?" makes it even worse, Why would he even assume that? And where would he get this assumption from? Even tho he also had no experience in his date with Jin but he still didn't display that kind of triviality or ignorance back then

What's really baffling to me is that the "Tale of Zuko" and "The beach" episode are both written by the same writer (Katie Mattila), but how was Zuko's character got right and nailed in the Tale of Zuko yet so awfully mischaracterized in the beach episode?? I will soon post a blog fully explaining the problems with the beach episode

"he'd be shockingly smooth"??? We saw him with Mai, he wasn't smooth. 🫤

I think basing that opinion on his relationship with Mai is selling him short. That relationship was bad because Mai didn't actually like him. She also didn't appreciate or reciprocate his small romantic gestures. That seashell thing? Absolute gold, and something that just came natuarally. But because Mai had a bug up her nose it went over like a lead balloon. That wasn't his fault. Like I said, Zuko in a relationship where his partner actually likes him would be smoother than a fresh jar of Skippy. I'm basing that on how well his date with Jin ended once he got out of his own head. Imagine if they'd been able to go out a couple more times. Jin would've melted over that lil' seashell. And that's exactly why I'm baffled by the amount of people who seem to think canon Maiko was the height of romance. She didn't seem to like the boy, and he felt it. And he acted accordingly. He was dating someone just like his father. Of course he was weird and awkward.

Regarding my previous post about Zuko's characterization I think this comment is good to reply to and explain my point further

I think there's a nuanced difference between "being out of character/mischaraterized" and "not being/acting like yourself"

The thing with Zuko and Mai is that their relationship existence doesn't make any sense to begin with whether it was narrative-wise or character/personality-wise (*I will deep-dive into this topic in another post bec I don't want to deviate from the original topic) back to the point, I think to explain my point I will use Zuko and Jin as an example to make it clear,

When Zuko first met Jin he was being cautious of his identity being known and assumed she might know he and Iroh are fire nation, Zuko was of course acting nervous in the restaurant because (aside from him hiding his identity) Zuko is not capable to socialise or really be socially open, I think the thing of "not acting like yourself" was better explained in his date with Jin, Zuko was actually acting in-character even when he's being Lee and he wasn't comfortable at first but the moment when Jin asked him to juggle is the moment he started to actually act like his 𝙩𝙧𝙪𝙚 self (*but he still wasn't mischaracterized back then) he started to be comfortable with jin because he actually liked her and became even more comfortable when they're alone at the fountain so the reason he had back then to not act like himself is now gone

From this we can know that Zuko is not the type of person who would be a "people pleaser" or try to not act like himself when he has no valid reason to or when he already loves/or comfortable with this person (*like with Jin)

Now let's see Zuko and Mai, the reason why this case is out of character even if we assumed that this relationship existence (somehow) made sense is that he has no reason to not act like himself with Mai, Bec he already knows her, she's not a stranger to him, and Zuko is not also the type of "playboy" as he's depicted in his relationship with Mai which is why I say it's out of character and a writing issue, also the other reason why it's out of character and not them shown as "not acting like theirselves" is because these moments are not presented as such

The writers presented these moments as them actually "acting like themselves" and to try to trick the audience into actually thinking this is "how Zuko and Mai really are" (*which is also the reason why the fandom mostly mischaracterize these two), the writers presented these moments as "look they're happy with each other and love each other" which is why it can't really be interpreted as "first relationships where neither of the two act like themselves"

But anyway thanks to the comment @thereslifeinhereyes and I'm interested in having these conversations even if we disagree

Even tho I don't ship Zutara anymore, but I found it worth noting how Zuko is characterised more fairly in these specific shots of him with Katara than 99% of the scenes of him with Mai (*bruh even Mai was ooc but this is going to be for another discussion)

I already have many issues from book 3 especially in terms of characterisation, but Oh God, Zuko had the most awful ooc moments with Mai (*the beach episode sums it up), like I cringe whenever I see them together on screen💀

He's not even being Zuko with Mai, He's just a different person named "Zuko" (*the same applies to Mai), and it's really insulting not only for Zuko and Mai but for the fans as well

But let's be all honest, Zuko had such a spot-on characterisation in his scenes with Jin! (*not to mention the cute chemistry) He was really being himself in the Tale of Zuko

This meme perfectly sums it up

Oh no it's totally fine! I think you explained my post more clearly and straight-to-the-point than I did bec op responded about how their maturity gap isn't that big even though my purpose was to explain how it impacted their heights (*I was gonna leave the topic of their maturity gap for another post in a big deep-dive) but he lead me into trying to explain their maturity gap to respond to his comments

I find it hilariously stupid when some K̶a̶t̶a̶a̶n̶g̶ s̶h̶i̶p̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ undermine the maturity gap between Katara and Aang by saying: "Oh I love that Katara is taller than Aang, and Aang is short cuz it breaks societal norms"

IT'S NOT LIKE AANG WAS BORN SHORT AND KATARA IS BORN TALLER,

Aang is shorter than Katara In This PARTICULAR AGE PHASE because He's A 𝙋𝙍𝙀𝙏𝙀𝙀𝙉, he still hasn't hit puberty yet, meanwhile Katara is already a teen and older

To examplify that, me and my brother who have the same age difference as Katara and Aang respectively, when he was 12/13 I was taller than him, but when he started to hit puberty he drastically changed and even became Taller than me

In fact when Aang grew up, he became Taller than Katara, as seen from the photo of Aang and Katara as adults which destroys the argument that "Aang is short"

The "Shorter dude/Tall gal couple" only applies to Zaheer and P'li because when they're both grown adults (*given also that Zaheer is older) P'li is taller than him

What's even funny is that Zaheer himself is actually tall (he's 6'1) but P'li is just a giraff

Thank you for emphasising and explaining my point (:

I find it hilariously stupid when some K̶a̶t̶a̶a̶n̶g̶ s̶h̶i̶p̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ undermine the maturity gap between Katara and Aang by saying: "Oh I love that Katara is taller than Aang, and Aang is short cuz it breaks societal norms"

IT'S NOT LIKE AANG WAS BORN SHORT AND KATARA IS BORN TALLER,

Aang is shorter than Katara In This PARTICULAR AGE PHASE because He's A 𝙋𝙍𝙀𝙏𝙀𝙀𝙉, he still hasn't hit puberty yet, meanwhile Katara is already a teen and older

To examplify that, me and my brother who have the same age difference as Katara and Aang respectively, when he was 12/13 I was taller than him, but when he started to hit puberty he drastically changed and even became Taller than me

In fact when Aang grew up, he became Taller than Katara, as seen from the photo of Aang and Katara as adults which destroys the argument that "Aang is short"

The "Shorter dude/Tall gal couple" only applies to Zaheer and P'li because when they're both grown adults (*given also that Zaheer is older) P'li is taller than him

What's even funny is that Zaheer himself is actually tall (he's 6'1) but P'li is just a giraff

I don't think you really got my point, I'm talking about how 12 to 14 is an actual Jump in maturity 𝙗𝙞𝙤𝙡𝙤𝙜𝙞𝙘𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙮 (*I will talk about the mental one later) by the real life example I just mentioned, but yes different people mature differently, I didn't say there was "that big" of a maturity gap, but nevertheless there's a maturity gap and I didn't also mention that experience and life perspectives can be a factor in maturity, regarding what you said about Aang: "Aang suffered genocide that's gonna make anybody grow very quickly" I agree that this trauma is gonna force him to grow, but "Very quickly"?

Growing up from trauma doesn't happen that quickly as you think it is, yes Aang started to take his responsibility seriously after but he's still a kid who would goof off and have fun, there are many episodes that emphasize how he's still a kid and didn't really grow up, what separates Katara from Aang is that she already exprienced trauma and war since she was 8, she took mature responsibilities for herself and even takes care of Sokka, Aang got to have a normal childhood in the southern air temple before the genocide and didn't need to have responsibilities back then, so after this sudden trauma he exprienced it's hard to fully process it or to "quickly" mature from it

Regarding "They're still in middle school" I don't get what has school years to do with maturity? Maybe school years differ from a country to another, but in my country, 12 is supposed to be in the last year of elementary school not in middle school but yeah you already get my point

I find it hilariously stupid when some K̶a̶t̶a̶a̶n̶g̶ s̶h̶i̶p̶p̶e̶r̶s̶ undermine the maturity gap between Katara and Aang by saying: "Oh I love that Katara is taller than Aang, and Aang is short cuz it breaks societal norms"

IT'S NOT LIKE AANG WAS BORN SHORT AND KATARA IS BORN TALLER,

Aang is shorter than Katara In This PARTICULAR AGE PHASE because He's A 𝙋𝙍𝙀𝙏𝙀𝙀𝙉, he still hasn't hit puberty yet, meanwhile Katara is already a teen and older

To examplify that, me and my brother who have the same age difference as Katara and Aang respectively, when he was 12/13 I was taller than him, but when he started to hit puberty he drastically changed and even became Taller than me

In fact when Aang grew up, he became Taller than Katara, as seen from the photo of Aang and Katara as adults which destroys the argument that "Aang is short"

The "Shorter dude/Tall gal couple" only applies to Zaheer and P'li because when they're both grown adults (*given also that Zaheer is older) P'li is taller than him

What's even funny is that Zaheer himself is actually tall (he's 6'1) but P'li is just a giraff

I find it hilariously stupid when some Kataang shippers undermine the maturity gap between Katara and Aang by saying: "Oh I love that Katara is taller than Aang, and Aang is short cuz it breaks societal norms"

IT'S NOT LIKE AANG WAS BORN SHORT AND KATARA IS BORN TALLER,

Aang is shorter than Katara In This PARTICULAR AGE PHASE because He's A 𝙋𝙍𝙀𝙏𝙀𝙀𝙉, he still hasn't hit puberty yet, meanwhile Katara is already a teen and older

To examplify that, me and my brother who have the same age difference as Katara and Aang respectively, when he was 12/13 I was taller than him, but when he started to hit puberty he drastically changed and even became Taller than me

In fact when Aang grew up, he became Taller than Katara, as seen from the photo of Aang and Katara as adults which destroys the argument that "Aang is short"

The "Shorter dude/Tall gal couple" only applies to Zaheer and P'li because when they're both grown adults (*given also that Zaheer is older) P'li is taller than him

What's even funny is that Zaheer himself is actually tall (he's 6'1) but P'li is just a giraff

Okay, but I am never going to get over the fact that Zuko basically exposed himself as being a fire bender to Jin just to make her happy since the lanterns weren’t lit. He probably thought he was being SO clever thinking that Jin didn’t figure out that he’s a fire bender but come on! Jin totally put two and two together. But the very fact that she knew that “Lee” was a fire bender but didn’t hold that against him at all speaks volumes of her character. I can’t believe that this series created the perfect love interest for Zuko in the span of 5 minutes with her being a great character as well yet they never did anything with Jin ever again 😤

MY OTPs!

Double standards with Jetara and the other one.

Maybe I should expand on this differently, but the double standards people have with Jet and Katara vs Zuko and Katara is embarrassing.

“He almost made her kill innocent people. Things almost went horribly. She should never be with him for that.”

Zuko invaded her home. How do you think she felt? Her mom died because of her, and now the Fire Nation was back again because of her. The Fire Nation made it impossible for them to feel safe in their own homes. Where do you think Sokka’s paranoia comes from?

Zuko almost burned Sokka. Zuko almost harmed her grandmother. Zuko almost killed a child. Zuko took Aang away, someone Katara grew close to.

Katara’s grief is loss. Losing her mother. Losing fun. Losing a part of her culture. Losing her childhood. Losing her father. Losing security. Losing Kya’s necklace. Losing Aang. Losing trust.

It’s always loss. The first episodes established the characters, but a lot happened also.

Zuko does burn down a village. He almost kills the people in it.

Zuko again tries to take Aang. Again Katara has to fight to save the people she cares about. This time she can fight; she knows how to bend.

Yet she still loses Aang.

Zuko almost dies with Aang. That could have cost them the war. Zuko almost robbed a couple and only stopped because the woman was expecting.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but that is literally ‘not as bad as he could have been’. Pulling out a weapon on two civilians who had to flee their home because of the Fire Nation and now they’re being threatened?

Zuko almost captures Appa with plans to use him to lure out Aang. After all of Appa’s suffering.

Zuko completely sends an assassin after the Gaang to kill Aang.

Zuko almost did so much. And a lot of it affects Katara. But she forgave him so it’s all good. An apology is enough.

Not with Jet apparently. If he succeeded it would completely horrify Katara, but you can’t pretend it wouldn’t be the same with Zuko’s actions if not worse because Zuko threatened her loved ones numerous times.

Do you think she wouldn’t devastated if Aang died in the blizzard in Book 1? Or if Zuko or his crew killed someone from her tribe? Or if Zuko held onto the necklace and never returned it? Or if Combustion Man killed Aang?

Honestly I think she’d be worse.

I don’t think Zuko and Katara together would be toxic, and I have a lot of issues with Zuko’s writing. Katara has seen Zuko at his worst. If she ever chose to be with him, it would only be if he actually changed, so any actual toxicity probably wouldn’t exist.

My point is that it doesn’t make sense that Zuko and Katara are acceptable but Jet and Katara aren’t. It is literally canon that Zuko has done more harm to Katara than Jet.

If you hate both ships, it would make more sense.

This is such an authentic portrayal of how a 12-year-old would act

These scenes of Katara and Aang remind me a lot of me and my young brother (*who's also 12 year old btw) when he becomes open and vulnerable with me and wants me to watch him when he's playing a game or doing smth fun, kids want acknowledgement, attention and praise,

And they become disappointed when you're not giving attention and want to make sure you're watching them

(In these moments I would be busy just like Katara in this scene)

Then I realise that he's disappointed and wants acknowledgement, I reply with a complement in a tone like I'm amazed to make him feel noticed

+ bonus

(*This me when I ask my brother to do smth lol)

“Five times a day we must pull away from the dunya to focus on our Creator and ultimate purpose. Five times a day, we detach ourselves from whatever we are doing of worldly life, and turn to God. Prayer could have been prescribed only once a day or week or all five prayers could have been done at one time each day. But it is not. The prayers are spread throughout the day. If one keeps to their prayers at their specified times, there is no opportunity to get attached. As soon as we begin to become engrossed in whatever dunya matter we’re involved in (the job we’re doing, the show we’re watching, the test we’re studying for, the person we can’t get off our mind), we are forced to detach from it and turn our focus to the only true object of attachment.”

— Yasmin Mogahed

“People think it’s the mind that drives us. It is the heart. The mind is a slave to the heart. So check the condition of the heart.”

— Yasmin Mogahed

*Miles trying to save Gwen from falling*

*My honest reaction to this scene:*

女の子はタフじゃないと生き残れないのよ。

" Girls can't survive unless they're tough ".

( (( 🌸 Sakura & Shinobu🦋 & Mikasa 🧣 )))

~○`☕🥄🍁 Latte coffee art by @naoki_lat_art

NAOKI。(ラテアーティスト)

🌸 Happy Birthday Sakura Haruno! [03.28] 🌸