I Feeling HOTDs Pacing Was So Off. They Shoved At Least 3 Seasons Worth Of Things Into One, And It Shows

I feeling HOTDs pacing was so off. They shoved at least 3 seasons worth of things into one, and it shows hard.

First of all, Luke and Jace were in TWO episodes, and most of that was "blah blah blah bastard bastard bastard." I love Luke, but how is someone supposed to feel bad for his death when we barely see any screen time? Any insight on his personality? Same with Viserys, and Harwin, and Laenor, and Aemond, and basically everyone in the show. The writers have a nasty problem with trying to shove a bunch of things in 8-10 episodes.

There's no actual meaningful relationships in the show at all. The younger generation except perhaps Aegon and Aemond all despise each other, with no complex relationships between them. Alicent and Rhaenyra is pushed heavily, even with the 'still after Luke's death'... yeahhhh..... no. Daemon and Rhaenyra is one of the only well-developed romantic relationships on the show, with the others being pushed or cast aside.

The pull of the show is its shock factor. "OH NO, SOMEONE DIED HORRIBLY! ANOTHER PERSON DIED HORRIBLY AND OH MY GOD ITS CAUSING SOOOO MUCH DRAMA" They want you to focus on all the fights and deaths and arguments so they can have the characters and relationships have the most limited amount of thought into them while still remaining interesting and getting good ratings.

I personally think s1 should've been split into a season for every timeskip; one for teenage era, one for divorced mom young kids era, one for the younger generation to be developed more on. Just a little thought I had.

the anon asking for differences

Aemond wasn't bullied

Alicent wasn't a victim

Rhaenyra was younger than Alicent

Rhaenyra and Alicent were never friends, Rhaenyra and Laena were close

Daemon never choked Rhaenyra

The dress scene with Alicent belonged to Rhaenyra in the book

Rhaenys had dark hair

Aegon's r@pe on Dyana wasn't so obvious

Helaena wasn't a dreamer

Aemma died in a bit different way

Age gap between Alicent and Rhaenyra was bigger, Alicent had a beef with a child

Different narration for sure

Rhaenyra never slept with Criston

Laena didn't die by getting burned, she died in childbirth

Rhaenys and Meleys never interrupted corporation

The crowd was cheering for Rhaenyra, not Aegon

Viserys was actively preparing Rhaenyra to be an heir

Rhaenyra was a badass

Criston convinced Aegon to take the crown that's why his alias is "Kingmaker"

Thank you nonnie!!!

Alicent having beef with a child, iconic 😭😭😭

every day TG crying because they want Jaehaera to live in the series and be the mother of Aegon III's children, they don't even care about the girl they just want to be able to say that their green lineage continues in some way, they can't accept that TG lost in the end of the day and they want to shove this girl as if she had any relevance, jaehaera purpose was died, the end! I have nothing against her but these stans make me want ryan to kill the girl soon so i don't have to deal with this bullshit 😅

Jaehaera doesn't actually matter to TG stans except when they use her to try to rob TB of their victory. They don't consider that her mental health would suffer drastically if she had been forced to live as Aegon's wife. Yeah, it's tragic what happened to her, but that's kind of the point. She suffers because of her parents' and grandparents' awful choices. But to acknowledge that would mean admitting their favs are shitty people.

Jaehaera doesn't deserve to die, but her death helps show how the greens' actions negatively impacted the lives of Westerosi girls and women. But if course, if TG stans refuse to acknowledge the wrongs TG has done. Jaehaera was doomed from the moment Aegon chose to usurp Rhaenyra (no he wasn't forced, he made a choice), she might have been even from birth, considering Aegon and Helaena were forced to marry purely to support his claim.

Aside from the themes and narrative, Jaehaera herself would not have been happy as queen. She's traumatized, has mental disabilities, and would have a really shitty marriage. If she could live, why would she want to live in a loveless (at best) marriage while the kingdom is in mass turmoil.

Anyone who wants Jaehaera to survive and be married to Aegon III doesn't understand the story or care about her as a character. Jaehaera was doomed by her family from the start, if TG stans want someone to blame for her ending, they should look at their favs.

“Dany’s buildup to power was too easy”. 

Yup. Joffrey becoming King because his father was King was really hard for him. Cersei becoming Queen Regent to rule in Tommen’s stead was the most difficult, relatable, realistic ruling arc for a woman under feudalism to ever occur. Margaery becoming Queen through marrying Tommen was subversive, revolutionary, and unprecedented in the history of feudalism. Robb, the eldest male heir to his father’s Warden of the North position, being elected King in the North by the higborn Stark loyalist bannermen after his direwolf that he stumbled upon in the woods magically one day bit off one of said highborn loyalist’s fingers, was the most grueling experience a King has ever had to go through. Robert Baratheon engaging in a Targaryen hunt and near massacring an entire House, including children that he called dragonspawn, was simply the most poignant leadership journey I’ve ever seen. Tywin lying, murdering, ordering rapes, threatening, and slaughtering people is truly the definition of someone clawing their way to power despite setbacks. Euron, the brother of the former leader of the Iron Islands, killing his brother discreetly and then using a dragonbinder and a crew that rapes and murders its way through the world to convince the Ironborn to crown him was truly a magifnicent display of hard work. Stannis gaining the Baratheon bannermen after Melisandre uses shadowbinding magic to murder his brother, Renly, and Cortnay Penrose, is truly just gorgeous and just, a sign that Stannis is an incredible King who naturally inspires loyalty. Faegon being set up to be King by JonCon, Illyrio, and Varys, and not suffering any setbacks or having to actually rule any people, is actually a sign of how down-to-earth he is and how much he’s endured in his life. 

Dany though? So what if she was orphaned at birth and immediately exiled? So what if she went through poverty and hunger? So what if she was abused by her only family left? So what if she was prey to predatory men who wanted to use her? So what if she’s sold against her will and married off to Drogo? So what if she’s raped every night and then abandoned and nearly killed when her husband is incapacitated? So what if after becoming the Khaleesi to a Khalasar composed mostly of non-combatants she has to survive the Red Waste and is a Beggar Queen in Qarth? Her rise to power was way too easy. Ugh, her dragons have won her every victory. Deus ex machina. She’s so overpowered. 

“Dany did not suffer consequences for her rise to power”. 

Yup. At the beginning, losing everyone in her family except Viserys is nothing. Going from city to city, penniless and hungry, is a cakewalk. Sheltering in Illyrio’s manse was luxurious for her, a true vacation. Being sold to Drogo was an amazing experience for her, especially the part where she wants to commit suicide because her husband is raping her every night. Viserys trying to steal her dragon eggs and then threatening to cut out her unborn child was a funny prank we all laugh about. Drogo becoming ill and falling into a coma, leading his bloodriders to turn on Dany, slaughter Quaro, and Cohollo trying to kill her, before they all abandon Dany and her tiny Khalasar, was actually a super easy moment that Dany dealt with super quickly. Dany going through miscarriage at the age of 14 was physically and emotionally painless and didn’t leave her with permanent scars or trauma. Dany losing her husband who gave her autonomy from her abuser left her in a fantastic and stable position. Dany walking through a funeral pyre alive was truly easy because anyone could’ve done that, she ain’t special! Men in Westeros arranging for Dany to be killed, or for her to attempt to be assassinated so that Drogo can make his move, and her going against all those plans, actually showcases how easy her rise to power was. 

And after she easily becomes Khaleesi and easily births her overpowered baby dragons who can’t take care of themselves for all of ACOK? Whew, she breezes through The Red Waste. Okay, a baby dies. So? Doesn’t affect her. Okay, she cradles a dying Doreah. But Dany is a heartless cunt who has power handed to her so she doesn’t care about that. It’s not like she reflects on the deaths of some of her Khalasar in the Red Waste throughout ACOK and ASOS. It’s not like she says she won’t march her people off to die in ASOS because she’d already been through her people dying in The Red Waste and never wanted to go through that again. So honestly, The Red Waste? Super easy time for Dany. A vacation, really. 

In Qarth, everything is rosy. Xaro wanting her to sell her dragon children and then turning on her? Nothing to worry about. The Undying luring her into the House of the Undying and trying to consume her heart? Pssh, are we really scared of something like that? Dany and her overpowered nuclear beasts handled that in a jiffy. People wanting to steal or kill her dragons? Who cares, they’re overpowered nuclear beasts. The Tourmaline Brotherhood wanting her head? Oh well. The warlocks sending a manticore to kill her? Well Dany is overpowered so Barristan can save her. Ugh, she gets so lucky, doesn’t she? People actually save her. She’s the only monarch in ASOIAF with some kind of protector later on. Joffrey, Robb, Robert, Stannis, Tywin, Cersei, Tommen, Faegon, they don’t have anything like armies, guards, soldiers, knights, etc protecting them. They are literally fighting for their kingships in the vanguard with their bare hands, while Dany is carried on a float by her people and handfed grapes to victory. 

In ASOS? Wow, talk about overpowered to the 1000th degree. Never mind that the Meereneese Masters kill slave children and burn all their olive trees. Never mind that she’s threatened by Kraznys, then by the Yunkai with sex slavery, then nearly assassinated by a sellsword. Never mind that she is heartbroken by Jorah’s betrayal. Never mind that she has to care for a host of 80,000+ starving freedmen, hence the need. to take Meereen. Never mind that the good that she did starts regressing because of the slavers, forcing her to stay in Meereen, despite the advice of her captains who tell her to go to Westeros instead of delaying her campaign further. No, her ASOS arc was super easy, and took no effort or planning from her. Everyone did her work for her. 

ADWD isn’t rife with her facing mistakes and backlash after backlash after backlash. It’s not like she’s miserable, isolated, and hating herself, losing Rhylona Rhee and Stalwart Shield, with war being declared against her inside Meereen and on all sides of Slaver’s Bay, not like she had to chain away her dragon children. Not like she has to see her people suffering even as much as she tries to help them. 

No, Daenerys Targaryen has had a life that is too easy, too comfortable, to neatly set up for her to be a Queen and successful conqueror. She will need to be punished for having such an easy life, and she definitely will be punished when Westeros rejects her in favor of Aegon and she goes mad with rage and jealousy. That’s what she deserves. Robb didn’t make mistakes that led to his death; he was punished unfairly and he was always part of the oppressed groups of Westeros. All these other monarchs were oppressed serfs who gained power for themselves, while Dany is a rich, privileged brat that’s had it easy for far too long, has had power handed to her on a platter, and has had people doing her for work her. She’s definitely getting her karma in TWOW. 

the showrunners are all so tg its insane

Yeah, I think Condal tried to disguise it a bit when season one first came out, but he's really just letting it all out now. What the fuck is he planning on doing that will make us "consider switching sides"?

I don't understand people who claim he and HoTD are biased towards TB. They made Rhaenyra be completely inactive politically outside of that one small council scene. They took Jace's interests and gave them to Aemond. They made Daemon kill Rhea, even though in the book he wasn't even in the country. They made Rhaenys and Corlys be completely unsupportive of Rhaenyra, when Rhaenys was her biggest support in the book. They removed Baela and Rhaena's personalities in favor of spending more time on the greens. They turned Laenor into an absent father who chose to abandon his children (biological or not, they were his sons).

Meanwhile, the greens get a majority of the screen time. Alicent is turned into a perpetual victim who refuses to help herself or her children, even though she's the second most powerful person in the realm. Aegon is made to be a "sympathetic" baby with daddy/mommy issues who rapes women because "he doesn't understand consent" (yes, Hess literally said this). Aemond is made to be a poor bullied baby who is actually just so right to be king, guys! Helaena is made into a dreamer yet still has no bearing on the plot other than "sad victim".

The plot itself suffers sooo much because Condal and Hess just had to make the greens into a bunch of poor innocent babies. The greens are the most cartoonishly evil Targaryens GRRM has ever written. But of course, if Condal and Hess are going to ignore the fact that Daemon is meant to be a gray character (GRRM said he's the grayest character in F&B), why wouldn't they ignore how completely shitty the greens are (with the exception of Helaena, who we know nothing about).

Look at this....☠️ https://www.tumblr.com/bohemian-nights/737003196544958464/fuck-rhaenyra-fuck-the-writers-with-this-sapphic?source=share

Fucking hell.

First off: I find it interesting the anon doesn't acknowledge that Laena x Daemon is also incest. Sure, she's not his niece, but she is still related to him. They love projecting their insecurities about their ship onto daemyra.

Second: yeah, HoTD choosing to make the Velaryons black then sidelining them massively is shitty and, sure, could be interpreted as racist. However, how is that Rhaenyra's fault? She didn't make Daemon marry Laena when he couldn't have her neither did she kill Laena. Condal and Hess chose to write out Laena's relevance (which already wasn't much outside of being Daemon's wife and Baela and Rhaena's mother) in order to give Alicent more screen time. But again, that's neith Rhaenyra's nor Emma D'Arcy's fault, stop blaming them (also Emma is good at playing Rhaenyra as she is written, the only issues are the writing, which aren't their fault). Op also chose to ignore the fact that Daemon actually is confirmed by GRRM himself to have loved Rhaenyra the most.

Moving on, once again the Rhaenyra antis are bringing up how Rhaenyra isn't "feminist". Literally no one in F&B is feminist by our modern definition. Visenya and Rhaenys are probably the closest, and even then, they aren't writing feminist manifestos (which apparently Rhaenyra is expected to for some reason). Alysanne, the most proactive queen regent, still enforced arranged marriages on her daughters and granddaughters. Rhaenys didn't advocate for Laena's right of succession in the book and in the show refused to support Rhaenyra long before Laenor's "death". Her antis hold Rhaenyra to unfair and unrealistic standards while making excuses for or ignoring other characters who don't meet them.

In that same vein, I still can't get over how Rhaenyra antis will say that TG aren't the conservative group. They say Rhaenyra isn't a feminist and that TG, the ones who are obsessed with male primogeniture and believe being gay, a sexually liberated woman, a child born out of wedlock, or not adhering to the equivalent of the Catholic Church make someone subhuman are the "progressive" group. It's delusion at its finest. Alicent and the greens are misogynistic and, because of them, women's rights in Westeros ended up more repressed than ever.

The fact that the op says that Visenya and Queen Rhaena are acceptable shows they have no understanding for TG or F&B. First off, TG would never support either woman. Visenya was hated by the Faith and most of the Lord's of Westeros, she was a warrior accused of witchcraft and dared to interfere with the misogynistic customs alongside Rhaenys. Rhaena was gay, something she wasn't allowed to live fully because the Targaryens chose to conform to Westerosi ideals. She was also robbed of her inheritance, even Jaehaerys acknowledged that Rhaena was the rightful heir, just as Aegon acknowledged Rhaenyra was.

As for the racist allegations, those come exclusively from Mushroom, someone who is far from a reliable source. Mushroom invented an entire woman to try to add "spice" to Jacaerys' story: Sara Snow. A woman of whom there is no record of, even though she was raised in Winterfell and supposedly married Jace. If Mushroom is willing to make up a whole ass woman to make the story more dramatic, why should we trust anything he says?

Yes, Rhaenyra ordered Nettles' execution, but that was because of her rumored relationship with Daemon and Rhaenyra's paranoia which had grown massively since Hugh Hammer and Ulf White's betrayal. Was it just? No. Was it racially motivated? According to Mushroom, maybe, but looking at Rhaenyra's character, it doesn't make sense.

Moving on, what exactly does op mean by "she's done too many things to claim she's been wrongly framed by the narrative"? By the time Nettles comes along, Rhaenyra hasn't done much that could be considered reprehensible. Op seems to have an issue with Vaemond's death, which Rhaenyra did order in the book. They seem to think that Vaemond "rightfully called her out" and was wrongfully killed.

She ordered Vaemond's execution after he declared her sons bastards in order to challenge Corlys' decision regarding succession. Keep in mind, Vaemond in the book is Corlys' nephew, not his brother, which moves him even farther down the line of succession. Vaemond not only was putting Rhaenyra and her sons in danger but was also trying to usurp all of Corlys' line, including Baela and Rhaena, who op seems to like a lot.

Yeah Rhaenyra is much harsher in F&B, but that hardly makes her evil and irredeemable. Queens Visenya and Rhaena were both harsh and even cruel sometimes, yet op doesn't think they're irredeemable monsters.

I do agree with op's anger over the sidelining of the Velaryons, as I said earlier, but taking it out on Rhaenyra is completely uncalled for. Rhaenyra wasn't a monster, anyone who believes that has frighteningly little reading comprehension. Rhaenyra's reign would have greatly helped women's standings in Westeros and pushed along gender equality. Ignoring that fact and blatantly saying the greens aren't supporting the repressive patriarchy is delusional and idiotic. The greens' actions were damaging in every way. Vaemond was far from an innocent victim, he was power hungry and misogynistic in both the show and the book. Keep your angry focused on the right people, don't take it out on a woman who had her whole life destroyed by the patriarchy.