Genshin Theory - Tumblr Posts
The Samsaras Took No Time? / Genshin Theory
GENSHIN SUMERU SPOILERSSS Okay so like you know the samsara from the sabzeruz festival? although Dunyarzad did get more ill i think i have reason to believe that it is possible that the 168 loops (according to Nahida in Scaramouche boss battle cutscene stuff) did not, in fact, take 168 real life days
It is possible that Dunyarzad got more ill because it took more out of her every single loop, which goes in line with how we the Traveler and Paimon got more like tired or something, I can't remember but we had some sort of side effect but thats not the point So.. Okay so we went through 168 loops again with Scara's fight. And I mean, sure, maybe it didn't take a whole day like the Sabzeruz Festival, BUT when in the cutscene we see everyone answering how we fight the false god.. You'd think if we were put to sleep for 168 days someone would be worried af and checking in on us since theyd know we were in the Sanctuary of Surasthana. Perhaps it could be though that Scara was the one asleep, BUT remember how Dunyarzad the fill in acted? Like when Dunyarzad's real consciousness couldn't handle it and was out (and we all thought she died) and a replacement Dunyarzad came in? It'd be so easy to tell that nah, Traveler acting off. SURE that could be because Nahida with her gnosis is the one actually doing it instead of humans but like.. DOUBT???? I mean and even if she had to use a knowledge capsule for us to remember every loop, SO DID THE SABZERUZ FESTIVAL- She had to like unlock our memories or something to remember
id think that if EVERYONE knew about Scara being really close to godhood (i dont remember where but I THINK he said that he was almost done when he and the Traveler met in Pardis Dhyai, and they wouldn't have enough time to properly plan it out, like the '168th loops plan' id think??? everyone still had to do their part cause the traveler still needed to be contained and etc etc etc) then yeah maybe they wouldn't rush in and would trust the traveler to deal with it if they somehow made a good plan, but like...
yknow i dont think id intentionally leave my friend to fight a 'god' without any full on planning first - id think they would at least try to help us? i mean yeah they have their own things--
what was cyno doing? and i mean alhaitham- apparently after his cutscene if you go outside sumeru city(?) or something his guards have been knocked out- so lol? but like then he could do something right?? but i think he was in the desert.. (i know he was meant to be escorted there as another mad scholar to like aaru village)
hm....
cyno couldve been escorting azar to who knows where so i guess we cant fault him for being gone....? (and i mean the other corrupt sages prob....?)
and sURE dehya was dealing with the matra in the grand bazaar (and i think nilou too if i remember right) but id think theyd be able to deal with them and then provide help should they have known
and sure tighnaris still in pardis dhyai nursing his wound and keeping watch over haypasia
i just
damn where are yall, i may have an archon on my side but fuck man HES HUGE
ALSO THANK FUCK EVERYONE IN SUMERU IS SMART, couldn't have done this otherwise, like bruh even if we saved nahida we would be absolutely fucked fighting scara with no other loop knowledge (DID YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LOOP??)
Added note: Do you think the people in the desert went through a samsara too? In the Scara cutscene she said that the people of sumeru had to go through 168 loops and samsara cycles, but I mean sure 'people of sumeru' could count as the desert AND the forest, people DO refer to the people of the forest and the people of the desert to be different as if different races so like...
and we never knew did we? I mean what was going on with cyno and alhaitham? what about collei and tighnari?? well actually i think alhaitham knew or something? i swear there was some mention about the sages big project.. i THINK alhaitham asked about it to cyno but i REALLY cant remember their dialogue rn
WAIT NO, ANOTHER ADDED NOTE:
no the desert and the forest probably did not go through it. Why? Because when we tried to leave the I think Sumeru City because I think thats where the Grand Bazaar was in the Samsara, we were kicked out of the dream and forgot. AND its all controlled by like the akasha!!! The desert dont wear those, nor do the forest.
Theory About our Twin (3.3 Archon Quest Spoilers & Everything Before)
you know how our twin doesnt really like the archons and stuff like that? what if, khaenri'ah to them was like mondstadt to us? like obviously we'd be upset if the place we were staying in and helping out at just got completely obliterated. according to scaramouche in the archon quest Inversion of Genesis, our twin first arrived in Khaenr'ah. This means that whatever Khaenri'ah says and how they view the world is probably how they view the world.
Then again, considering they 'belong' to Teyvat, somehow.. I wouldn't be surprised if there might be something else at play. It's not that they're oblivious to what we know, but more that that was where they started, and they must've made friends so obviously they'd have grudges if they're now gone. Then they traveled the world and gained information with assumedly Dainsleif. Maybe the reason no one remembers them is because back then they traveled while we were still asleep, and therefore only the aranara remembered because the forest always remembers. hm.. That would also mean that everyone who did know them is probably dead. Ouch. And then we awoke and they were probably already a changed person
WHO WANTS TO HEAR ME YAP ABOUT VENTI BEING THE ARCHON OF DEATH SOMEONE PEALSEPELAPLEAPSELPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE
TO THE FIRST LIKER, THANK YOU. THIS IS FOR YOU @nira-eris
PREPARE FOR YAP CENTRAL.
Okay so first off, remember back when they were in Old Mondstadt? And Venti was just a little baby spirit with his friend? Remember how he wanted to liberate his friend so, so badly? How Venti sang songs about gifting freedom to his friend, and his friend sang songs about the freedom of the people?
When Old Mondstadt was liberated, who was one of the people that died? His friend.
Who did Venti want to free most? His friend.
What is one thing all Anemo vision weilders have in common? The one thing that everyone laughs about and jokes about?
A dead friend/loved one/significant person in their life, be it good or bad.
Another strange thing.
In Venti's 'Hello' voiceline, he greets the Traveler and says "Ah, Traveler, we meet again! What, you don't remember me? Ahaha, well allow me to join you on your quest once again." Now, this could only mean that we've forgotten Venti, but I deem that unlikely, as we helped him cure Stormterror.
That leaves us with another plausible option.
Teyvat runs on a time loop.
We've seen time loops in play in the Sumeru Archon Quest in the Samsara Cycle.
On Time Island in Mondstadt (the island to the East of the beach Traveler wakes up in that you need a Cryo character, usually Kaeya, to get to), the quest revolves around time. To interact with the sun dials (used to tell time) it needs to be around two in the morning.
My final theory is less of a Venti Theory and more of a Mondstadt Theory. The giant statue outside the Cathedral has words engraved around the pool beneath it. If you look closely, you can make out that it says 'The Gateway To Celestia'.
I don't know what this could mean, other than Mondstadt is most certainly endgame. Shnezhnaya is not the end of Genshin Impact.
Neither is Khaenri'ah.
Celestia and Mondstadt are.
THIS HAS BEEN CASS YAPS YOUR EAR OFF FOR FIVE MINUTES STRAIGHT.
WHO WANTS TO HEAR ME YAP ABOUT VENTI BEING THE ARCHON OF DEATH SOMEONE PEALSEPELAPLEAPSELPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE

Could this possibly be about the king of dragons I forgot the name of?if yes,does that mean he came from the storybook or that,at some point he went in the storybook?
Surely the witches that created simulanka(M and B) are part of the hex zen circle,right? RIGHT!???




This acenscion materials all seem to have to do with the archons.

What does thim mean about the tsaritsta




This acenscion materials all seem to have to do with the archons.

What does thim mean about the tsaritsta

...does that mean that durin is gonna be revived!!!???
BRO I WASNT EXPECTING CHARACTER AI TO GET IN TO CHARACTER THIS MUCH WTF DHEBHDBEHXHS






At this point im convinced that teyvat is just a fever dream Alice created out of boredom
what if paimon is nibelung and the reason she’s so greedy about things is because THOSE THINGS ARE PART OF HER HORDE
Fischl lore slideshow complete! I tried to organize everything in a way that makes sense... You might have to click for quality to read some of the smaller stuff. (also warning this is a longgg post)

















If you read all the way to the end of this, thank you so much! I'd love to hear any theories anyone else has about why and how Fischl is Like That™
Venti is Phanes + on Istaroth and the Primordial One
Not so crack theory: Venti is Phanes and is the androgynous being born from the Chymical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth, before she was betrayed by the Sinners
(I posted this before but now it's properly explained)
I am using this lore in my old mondstadt fic, Nameless (actually soon to turn into trilogy, since vol 2 is about venti rewinding time and vol 3 is present time story and I took so long to plan all the lore with all the canon crumbs and theories we had...)
Yes, a lot of the info about gods is pulled from wikipedia, I’m not being paid to research more, okay? I just want to feed the brainrot. My main sources besides those are the videos listed at the end.
I would love if this theory made its way to some big lore content creator for them to analyse and criticize, because I have been rotating this in my head but I don’t have their capacity or knowledge to tear this apart.
NOTES:
This post contain minimal mentions of 2 leaks, about the rest of the collection of The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies, and a sus minimal old leak about Venti
This post contains some references to the Penacony arc from Honkai star rail, but no knowledge about the game is required and in fact, I don't even play it myself and those are just sus parallels
0. Summary / main points
Istaroth and the Primordial One parallel Chronos (personification of time) and Ananke (most powerful dictator of Fate and mother of The Fates/Moirai), respectively.
Chronos and Ananke laid down the cosmic / orphic world that created/reshaped the world. In a way, that was an Alchemical Marriage, that also gave birth to the androgynous winged being Phanes/Venti, and to the Abyss,
Venti has many ties to fate, including extensive apple symbology visible even in wisp form. The apples, besides being a symbol of fate, also represent a dream bubble in accordance to the structure of Teyvat. Quoting his most sus birthday art, “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core”
Venti has at least some control over 1 half of Teyvat while the other half is ruled by The Night Mother/Nyx. He also offers us half of the apple in the mentioned birthday art.
Ananke was a serpent-like being, and we see a Black Serpent 1) coiled around Phanes 2) coiled around the pearl/cosmic egg in the Gnostic Chorus 3) in the Black Serpent Knights, who also had Ishtar/Istaroth’s star as a symbol 4) In Nibelung, if we consider serpents and dragons the same
Istaroth supported Khaenri’ah (thus why the Nation had her symbol) and both opposed the Heavenly Principles/Celestia, until she was betrayed by the Sinners/6 Pygmies and forgotten
The Primordial One was opposed by Celestia. We also know that Nibelung fought Celestia. They were either allies or even the same being (a black serpent), and their perceived opposition is not too different from how Remus went down misinterpreted by history
1. About the Primordial One
In case it’s not yet clear, this assumes that Phanes =/= Primordial One. After all, the book Before the Sun and Moon simply says that “The Primordial One may have been Phanes*”,* and the fandom just started equating the two.
I am of the opinion that the Primordial One and Celestia are in opposition, while Istaroth is on the side of the Primordial One, or at least opposed to Celestia too. Maybe the Alchemical Marriage was part of a plan of theirs. Read more about it in section 3.
And if the truth about Remuria taught us anything, is that some rivalries depicted in history are false. In the same way Remus went down as a Tyrant when in reality he never wanted to employ force and was even allied with Sybilla (a vishap), I would say that the Primordial One and Nibelung/dragons/vishaps probably found ways to coexist. We do know that Nibelung went to war against the Heavenly Principles/Celestia, but if Celestia and Primordial One opposed each other, that just makes an alliance between PO and the Dragon King more likely.
We don’t know if Primordial One = 1st Descender and Celestia = 2nd Descender, so I will avoid using those terms throughout the post. But if the 2nd who came = 2nd Descender = Celestia, then that would lend further credibility to the idea that Celestia and the PO are on opposing sides, since the 2nd who came basically stole PO’s ruling of Teyvat.
2. About Istaroth AND Khaenri’ah
Like I said above, I believe that Istaroth sides with the Primordial One and that both are in opposition to Celestia
Istaroth has the ability to create alt Looms of Fate through those seeds she gives away - those basically grow into trees that are databases of history outside the control of Celestia. I had already affirmed this for my fic before we got the 2nd Caribert quest, but at this point is practically confirmed.
Istaroth is based on Astaroth and Ishtar, and Ishtar’s morning star is an 8-pointed star just like the symbol of Khaenri’ah. And so the Black Serpent Nights probably served Istaroth in some way.
Khaenri’ah supposedly didn’t have a god, but let’s keep in mind Istaroth was forgotten by time. It’s also possible that, even if Khaenri’ah had a god, they still considered themselves the pride of humankind since Istaroth likely wasn’t associated with Celestia, as I mentioned
Speaking of Black Serpents, other prevalent Black serpents are the one in the Gnostic Chorus, and Nibelung, in a way (not sure if they are or not the same entity). So I would say that Nibelung is/was also allied with Khaenri’ah/Istaroth/Primordial One. Please refer to the section above for an explanation.
The 6 Pygmies and the Pale Princess is a book that is an allegory for the 5 Sinners of Khaenri’ah + Dainsleif and Istaroth. I include, at the end, a video that explains that properly and is very much worth the watch. From there (or at least, from the leaked volumes), we know that the Sinners basically betrayed Istaroth, which might explain why she ended up being forgotten and why Dainsleif is the only Pygmie that didn’t go fully down the Sinner’s path.
3. The relationship between the Primordial One and Istaroth
Like I say above, many things point to them being allied. At the very least, we can quite safely infer they both opposed Celestia/The Heavenly Principles and in turn allied with Khaenri’ah.
The cosmic/ orphic/world egg was created by Chronos (personification of time) and Ananke (most powerful dictator of Fate and mother of The Fates/Moirai). “Ananke and Chronos are mates, mingling together in serpent form as a tie around the universe. Together, they have crushed the primal egg of creation of which constituent parts became earth, heaven and sea to form the ordered universe.”
Ananke and Chronos have to be the PO and Istaroth - which one is which is a bit debatable, with their genders being a counterargument on its own. But I would say Chronos is Istaroth (due to her associations with time, although she is more a god of moments than of time) while Ananke is the Primordial One (who had the 3 moon sisters/moirai as shades + is probably the Dreamer/HSR’s SUNday parallel who plays the symphony that creates the fates reflected by the moons (read more in next section)).
The cosmic egg that birthed the world, together with the Abyss AND Venti, probably resulted from their Alchemical Marriage. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it was also the Gnostic Pearl depicted in the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, or even if the Black Serpent there was Ananke/Primordial One. In fact, that would only solidify the connections with the Black Serpent Knights and them wearing Istaroth’s symbol. And it would be extra funny if somehow the Primordial One and Nibelung were the same entity (since I already explained why I think they were are least on the same side)… and therefore were a black serpent/dragon.
Okay, but what is an Alchemical/Chymical Marriage? It’s a marriage between a Red King and a White Queen, the Sun and the Moon, gold and silver, sulphur and mercury. It’s sometimes pointed as the source of the Philosophers' Stone, and from that union of opposites is birthed an androgynous being. Btw, that marriage is facilitated by a dove, but this is off-topic and you can see why that is interesting in the last video linked. It’s also a process that sometimes involves ‘fermentation”, which is also off-topic but ties well with the wine-making process and other things mentioned in the last video too.
According to Jakob: "The Seal of Chymical Marriage was an ancient Fontainian ritual meant to seal off the source of life. Now it has been reversed, and all has been set free once more!" So, it can be used to separate the Primordial Sea from the world, which sounds similar to creating a world/pearl/philosopher’s stone/egg/dream bubble that floats in the sea of quanta or wtv is the logic used across Hoyoverse’s worlds. We confirm again this was necessary to create Teyvat's egg, and that the Primordial One couldn’t do it alone because two people are required for a marriage.
And do you know what Marriages also require? A ring. Who was escaping with a golden ring, that is an important figure of Khaenri’ah and the only Pygmy who didn’t act like the others/didn’t become a Sinner? Dainsleif, whose constellation is even a Serpent ring. May I point to the Das Rheinegold music drama, that is part of the series The Ring of Nibelung, and maybe use that as extra merit to associate the Primordial One with Nibelung?
4. About the world of Teyvat
Dragons = Vishaps = Sea slugs = Bees = Seelies. Yes. We already know that the the dragons and seelies in Genshin are based on irl sea slugs, I won’t elaborate on that. As for Bees, that is because we have seelie-like bees in Remuria, connected to the prophet Golden-Bee Sybilla (don’t mistake Sybilla with Sylla, who is a Dragon King, although I guess this is all the same family)
Teyvat is theoretically 2 worlds/halves, the version we know and the mirror world, that is probably the Abyss. Or maybe all of it is a mirror world, idk. We can even see similar world structures in Honkai Star Rail, especially in Penacony, where the world there is literally mirrored and a dream too. Some people say Teyvat is divided in 3 parts: the Light Realm, Void Realm, and the Human Realm. But I think the Pimordial One just transformed the Light Realm into the Human Realm, so there are still 2 parts only, and we know they can overlap anyway.
Cycle: People die » are absorbed by the roots » are supposed to travel to the top of the world tree (inverted, so top is in abyss) to become Irminsul fruit / stars » said stars form constellations that determine people's fate, or more accurately, since they are all in a dream, are data that allows the tree to predict their fates » it’s because people exist as stars that their fates and presence can be summoned in the form of shooting stars
Dainsleif confirmed that the leylines can be woven to determine Fate / have their records changed. The Loom used to weave them is a Symphony, or in other words, Remus’ Symphony of Fate is very similar or the same thing as a Loom of Fate, although maybe not at the same scale. It’s possible that other God-Kings also attempted to create their own Looms of Fate.
Add to that some Penacony’s parallels, and you can infer that the Symphony is controlled in a floating palace, that is actually a Grande Theater, by the Sun(day) (potentially Phanes or the Primordial One, basically the one who Dreams), and it’s reflected by the moons (Aria, Sonnet and Canon, so the musical associations are fitting). Considering that the 3 moon sisters are also probably the mythological Moirai who weave Fate, yeah, that tracks.
5. Finally, about Venti
Addressing the Venti is/isn’t the weakest Archon debate: Idk and I don’t quite care, because regardless of how much power he holds now, this theory is about his origins and role more than anything.
Venti is the one narrating the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, so clearly he knows about the origins of Teyvat and other important stuff. Yes, it can just be because of his ties to Istaroth who had the winds of time and bla bla, but I would say he has a bigger involvement.
In the Gnostic Chorus, there is a Black serpent, and I already mentioned how it ties with Khaenri’ah and Istaroth in the second section. Well, Phanes is a figure that has a serpent coiled around him too, Ananke, to be more precise.
Phanes was believed to have hatched from the egg of Chronos and Ananke (Istaroth and PO, section 3), OR Nyx in the form of a black bird and wind, OR from the cosmic /orphic egg placed in and hatched from Aether, who was the personification of the bright upper sky and another son of Chronos. Regardless, it seems like the egg birthed both Phanes AND the world?
Phanes is described sometimes as male, sometimes as androgynous. I don’t need to explain how that fits Venti. The androgynous part also fits with how a being born from an Alchemical Marriage should be androgynous due to being an union of opposites.
Phanes is also described has having wings and a crown. We are yet to see a crown, but at least the angel wings are there.
Some myths say that Phanes was Dionysus (god of wine… amongst other things), or Eros (god of love, yes I’m simplifying), and oh boy isn’t Venti the god of all of that too? Although this is complicated since it has to do with gods being iterations of past gods and such, you can read more about it here
In a certain play, after Phanes mates with Chaos, he creates flying creatures. It would also fit Venti well, especially given that tale from Amber’s Quest where he taught birds how to fly.
Okay, this gets less obvious now. Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge. Please, check the last video I link.
Phanes counterpart is Nyx (Night). In some tales she is Phane’s wife, sometimes his daughter, and in others she creates an egg from which Phanes is born, so wtv. I don’t know who Nyx is (besides being clearly The Night Mother from the book of the Six Pygmies), but it’s pretty clear that the Abyss half is under her responsibility in some way.
Oh, right, this was a sus leak that broke my mind months ago and seemed completely nonsensical, but since I started cooking this theory, I can’t help but look back at it. It claimed that Venti was the guide of the Primordial One. Humm… yeah, if Venti was part of a plan between Istaroth and PO, I can see that, although I don’t know what the goal could be. Maybe he is assuming Istaroth’s role now that she is gone in supporting the PO?
This is a very wild guess, but I really thing Venti has something to do with the Gnostic Pearl. Idk if that pearl is the same one that hatched the world, or something that holds the world together (think Mikha from HSR), but I can imagine him having some responsibility over taking care of it.
And if you think Venti holding Fate in his hands is a stretch… let’s talk about Apples. Especially in anime, Apples are often depicted as the fruit of Fate (look no further than Mawaru Penguindrum), and in Inazuma, the girl giving Fortune Slips is called Gendou Ringo, with Ringo meaning ‘apple’ in Japanese. Well… Mondstadt is a land full of apple trees, Venti loves apple cider and is often asking for apples to pay for his performances, is being given an apple in archon form in one of his birthday arts, created the Golden-Apple Archipelago, and even the top of his head in wisp form resembles an apple stem. Seriously, I go crazy with how many people never noticed that. This is too much in our face to not be relevant.
This sounds like a stretch, but apples are round and so the shape is not too different from a dream bubble. And do you know what the birthday art I mentioned had in the caption? “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core. Here, this half is for you. Let's take a stroll in the tiny little world. But remember to keep it a secret because... you're the only one I want to bring there.” If he isn’t holding Fate or a world in some way, then I don’t know what this is supposed to mean.
You know how I said that Teyvat is divided into 2 halves? That also connects well with his quote (when he gives us half of the apple/world), and with the idea that Phanes is the day while Nyx is the night. So maybe Venti is responsible for the half of Teyvat that we know/he gave us while Nyx is responsible for the Abyss side.
So… is there any proof that Venti is Phanes? No. Are there many many sus elements about him and connections with the things I listed? Yes. I could see the Traveler being Phanes and being entrusted the Light/Human half of Teyvat by Venti as a scenario just as likely, especially if The Abyss sibling ends up being/becoming Nyx, but I like this version more xD
But even if the main theory ends up being wrong, I hope people you got some things to think about.
Some videos for extra lore, more a less in order of relevance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZIR-tfzfd4 » Reinterpretation of all volumes of the Six Pygmies and the Pale Princess in light of finding out about the 5 Sinners of Khaenri’ah + Dain + connections of Istaroth with Khaenri’ah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3xYKtUniQ » More about the connections between Istaroth and Khaenri’ah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePjY4c0Rj0k » Elaborates on how a Loom of Fate is basically another database, as opposed to the Irminsul, and mentios how Istaroth can could create several Looms of Fate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAm9uElsKd4 » Parallels with the Penacony arc from Honkai Start Rail and list of evidences that Teyvat is a Dream bubble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhST-fz6Yps » Video is from before we learned about the 5 Sinners, and I’m not fully sold on the chronology, but I still think it does a good job at elaborating n the serpent thing from the gnostic chorus and other things we can infer about genshin thanks to parallels to Penacony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHCv8KFdL6M&t=1045s » Ties sacramental bread and blood with wine and the way wisdom/abilities can be passed down thrown ingesting parts of gods, and the concept of fairy rings and The Ring of Nibelung, with the concept of a Chemical Marriage.
Venti is Phanes + on Istaroth and the Primordial One
Not so crack theory: Venti is Phanes and is the androgynous being born from the Chymical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth, before she was betrayed by the Sinners
(I posted this before but now it's properly explained)
I am using this lore in my old mondstadt fic, Nameless (actually soon to turn into trilogy, since vol 2 is about venti rewinding time and vol 3 is present time story and I took so long to plan all the lore with all the canon crumbs and theories we had...)
Yes, a lot of the info about gods is pulled from wikipedia, I’m not being paid to research more, okay? I just want to feed the brainrot. My main sources besides those are the videos listed at the end.
I would love if this theory made its way to some big lore content creator for them to analyse and criticize, because I have been rotating this in my head but I don’t have their capacity or knowledge to tear this apart.
NOTES:
This post contain minimal mentions of 2 leaks, about the rest of the collection of The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies, and a sus minimal old leak about Venti
This post contains some references to the Penacony arc from Honkai star rail, but no knowledge about the game is required and in fact, I don't even play it myself and those are just sus parallels
0. Summary / main points
Istaroth and the Primordial One parallel Chronos (personification of time) and Ananke (most powerful dictator of Fate and mother of The Fates/Moirai), respectively.
Chronos and Ananke laid down the cosmic / orphic world that created/reshaped the world. In a way, that was an Alchemical Marriage, that also gave birth to the androgynous winged being Phanes/Venti, and to the Abyss,
Venti has many ties to fate, including extensive apple symbology visible even in wisp form. The apples, besides being a symbol of fate, also represent a dream bubble in accordance to the structure of Teyvat. Quoting his most sus birthday art, “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core”
Venti has at least some control over 1 half of Teyvat while the other half is ruled by The Night Mother/Nyx. He also offers us half of the apple in the mentioned birthday art.
Ananke was a serpent-like being, and we see a Black Serpent 1) coiled around Phanes 2) coiled around the pearl/cosmic egg in the Gnostic Chorus 3) in the Black Serpent Knights, who also had Ishtar/Istaroth’s star as a symbol 4) In Nibelung, if we consider serpents and dragons the same
Istaroth supported Khaenri’ah (thus why the Nation had her symbol) and both opposed the Heavenly Principles/Celestia, until she was betrayed by the Sinners/6 Pygmies and forgotten
The Primordial One was opposed by Celestia. We also know that Nibelung fought Celestia. They were either allies or even the same being (a black serpent), and their perceived opposition is not too different from how Remus went down misinterpreted by history
1. About the Primordial One
In case it’s not yet clear, this assumes that Phanes =/= Primordial One. After all, the book Before the Sun and Moon simply says that “The Primordial One may have been Phanes*”,* and the fandom just started equating the two.
I am of the opinion that the Primordial One and Celestia are in opposition, while Istaroth is on the side of the Primordial One, or at least opposed to Celestia too. Maybe the Alchemical Marriage was part of a plan of theirs. Read more about it in section 3.
And if the truth about Remuria taught us anything, is that some rivalries depicted in history are false. In the same way Remus went down as a Tyrant when in reality he never wanted to employ force and was even allied with Sybilla (a vishap), I would say that the Primordial One and Nibelung/dragons/vishaps probably found ways to coexist. We do know that Nibelung went to war against the Heavenly Principles/Celestia, but if Celestia and Primordial One opposed each other, that just makes an alliance between PO and the Dragon King more likely.
We don’t know if Primordial One = 1st Descender and Celestia = 2nd Descender, so I will avoid using those terms throughout the post. But if the 2nd who came = 2nd Descender = Celestia, then that would lend further credibility to the idea that Celestia and the PO are on opposing sides, since the 2nd who came basically stole PO’s ruling of Teyvat.
2. About Istaroth AND Khaenri’ah
Like I said above, I believe that Istaroth sides with the Primordial One and that both are in opposition to Celestia
Istaroth has the ability to create alt Looms of Fate through those seeds she gives away - those basically grow into trees that are databases of history outside the control of Celestia. I had already affirmed this for my fic before we got the 2nd Caribert quest, but at this point is practically confirmed.
Istaroth is based on Astaroth and Ishtar, and Ishtar’s morning star is an 8-pointed star just like the symbol of Khaenri’ah. And so the Black Serpent Nights probably served Istaroth in some way.
Khaenri’ah supposedly didn’t have a god, but let’s keep in mind Istaroth was forgotten by time. It’s also possible that, even if Khaenri’ah had a god, they still considered themselves the pride of humankind since Istaroth likely wasn’t associated with Celestia, as I mentioned
Speaking of Black Serpents, other prevalent Black serpents are the one in the Gnostic Chorus, and Nibelung, in a way (not sure if they are or not the same entity). So I would say that Nibelung is/was also allied with Khaenri’ah/Istaroth/Primordial One. Please refer to the section above for an explanation.
The 6 Pygmies and the Pale Princess is a book that is an allegory for the 5 Sinners of Khaenri’ah + Dainsleif and Istaroth. I include, at the end, a video that explains that properly and is very much worth the watch. From there (or at least, from the leaked volumes), we know that the Sinners basically betrayed Istaroth, which might explain why she ended up being forgotten and why Dainsleif is the only Pygmie that didn’t go fully down the Sinner’s path.
3. The relationship between the Primordial One and Istaroth
Like I say above, many things point to them being allied. At the very least, we can quite safely infer they both opposed Celestia/The Heavenly Principles and in turn allied with Khaenri’ah.
The cosmic/ orphic/world egg was created by Chronos (personification of time) and Ananke (most powerful dictator of Fate and mother of The Fates/Moirai). “Ananke and Chronos are mates, mingling together in serpent form as a tie around the universe. Together, they have crushed the primal egg of creation of which constituent parts became earth, heaven and sea to form the ordered universe.”
Ananke and Chronos have to be the PO and Istaroth - which one is which is a bit debatable, with their genders being a counterargument on its own. But I would say Chronos is Istaroth (due to her associations with time, although she is more a god of moments than of time) while Ananke is the Primordial One (who had the 3 moon sisters/moirai as shades + is probably the Dreamer/HSR’s SUNday parallel who plays the symphony that creates the fates reflected by the moons (read more in next section)).
The cosmic egg that birthed the world, together with the Abyss AND Venti, probably resulted from their Alchemical Marriage. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it was also the Gnostic Pearl depicted in the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, or even if the Black Serpent there was Ananke/Primordial One. In fact, that would only solidify the connections with the Black Serpent Knights and them wearing Istaroth’s symbol. And it would be extra funny if somehow the Primordial One and Nibelung were the same entity (since I already explained why I think they were are least on the same side)… and therefore were a black serpent/dragon.
Okay, but what is an Alchemical/Chymical Marriage? It’s a marriage between a Red King and a White Queen, the Sun and the Moon, gold and silver, sulphur and mercury. It’s sometimes pointed as the source of the Philosophers' Stone, and from that union of opposites is birthed an androgynous being. Btw, that marriage is facilitated by a dove, but this is off-topic and you can see why that is interesting in the last video linked. It’s also a process that sometimes involves ‘fermentation”, which is also off-topic but ties well with the wine-making process and other things mentioned in the last video too.
According to Jakob: "The Seal of Chymical Marriage was an ancient Fontainian ritual meant to seal off the source of life. Now it has been reversed, and all has been set free once more!" So, it can be used to separate the Primordial Sea from the world, which sounds similar to creating a world/pearl/philosopher’s stone/egg/dream bubble that floats in the sea of quanta or wtv is the logic used across Hoyoverse’s worlds. We confirm again this was necessary to create Teyvat's egg, and that the Primordial One couldn’t do it alone because two people are required for a marriage.
And do you know what Marriages also require? A ring. Who was escaping with a golden ring, that is an important figure of Khaenri’ah and the only Pygmy who didn’t act like the others/didn’t become a Sinner? Dainsleif, whose constellation is even a Serpent ring. May I point to the Das Rheinegold music drama, that is part of the series The Ring of Nibelung, and maybe use that as extra merit to associate the Primordial One with Nibelung?
4. About the world of Teyvat
Dragons = Vishaps = Sea slugs = Bees = Seelies. Yes. We already know that the the dragons and seelies in Genshin are based on irl sea slugs, I won’t elaborate on that. As for Bees, that is because we have seelie-like bees in Remuria, connected to the prophet Golden-Bee Sybilla (don’t mistake Sybilla with Sylla, who is a Dragon King, although I guess this is all the same family)
Teyvat is theoretically 2 worlds/halves, the version we know and the mirror world, that is probably the Abyss. Or maybe all of it is a mirror world, idk. We can even see similar world structures in Honkai Star Rail, especially in Penacony, where the world there is literally mirrored and a dream too. Some people say Teyvat is divided in 3 parts: the Light Realm, Void Realm, and the Human Realm. But I think the Pimordial One just transformed the Light Realm into the Human Realm, so there are still 2 parts only, and we know they can overlap anyway.
Cycle: People die » are absorbed by the roots » are supposed to travel to the top of the world tree (inverted, so top is in abyss) to become Irminsul fruit / stars » said stars form constellations that determine people's fate, or more accurately, since they are all in a dream, are data that allows the tree to predict their fates » it’s because people exist as stars that their fates and presence can be summoned in the form of shooting stars
Dainsleif confirmed that the leylines can be woven to determine Fate / have their records changed. The Loom used to weave them is a Symphony, or in other words, Remus’ Symphony of Fate is very similar or the same thing as a Loom of Fate, although maybe not at the same scale. It’s possible that other God-Kings also attempted to create their own Looms of Fate.
Add to that some Penacony’s parallels, and you can infer that the Symphony is controlled in a floating palace, that is actually a Grande Theater, by the Sun(day) (potentially Phanes or the Primordial One, basically the one who Dreams), and it’s reflected by the moons (Aria, Sonnet and Canon, so the musical associations are fitting). Considering that the 3 moon sisters are also probably the mythological Moirai who weave Fate, yeah, that tracks.
5. Finally, about Venti
Addressing the Venti is/isn’t the weakest Archon debate: Idk and I don’t quite care, because regardless of how much power he holds now, this theory is about his origins and role more than anything.
Venti is the one narrating the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, so clearly he knows about the origins of Teyvat and other important stuff. Yes, it can just be because of his ties to Istaroth who had the winds of time and bla bla, but I would say he has a bigger involvement.
In the Gnostic Chorus, there is a Black serpent, and I already mentioned how it ties with Khaenri’ah and Istaroth in the second section. Well, Phanes is a figure that has a serpent coiled around him too, Ananke, to be more precise.
Phanes was believed to have hatched from the egg of Chronos and Ananke (Istaroth and PO, section 3), OR Nyx in the form of a black bird and wind, OR from the cosmic /orphic egg placed in and hatched from Aether, who was the personification of the bright upper sky and another son of Chronos. Regardless, it seems like the egg birthed both Phanes AND the world?
Phanes is described sometimes as male, sometimes as androgynous. I don’t need to explain how that fits Venti. The androgynous part also fits with how a being born from an Alchemical Marriage should be androgynous due to being an union of opposites.
Phanes is also described has having wings and a crown. We are yet to see a crown, but at least the angel wings are there.
Some myths say that Phanes was Dionysus (god of wine… amongst other things), or Eros (god of love, yes I’m simplifying), and oh boy isn’t Venti the god of all of that too? Although this is complicated since it has to do with gods being iterations of past gods and such, you can read more about it here
In a certain play, after Phanes mates with Chaos, he creates flying creatures. It would also fit Venti well, especially given that tale from Amber’s Quest where he taught birds how to fly.
Okay, this gets less obvious now. Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge. Please, check the last video I link.
Phanes counterpart is Nyx (Night). In some tales she is Phane’s wife, sometimes his daughter, and in others she creates an egg from which Phanes is born, so wtv. I don’t know who Nyx is (besides being clearly The Night Mother from the book of the Six Pygmies), but it’s pretty clear that the Abyss half is under her responsibility in some way.
Oh, right, this was a sus leak that broke my mind months ago and seemed completely nonsensical, but since I started cooking this theory, I can’t help but look back at it. It claimed that Venti was the guide of the Primordial One. Humm… yeah, if Venti was part of a plan between Istaroth and PO, I can see that, although I don’t know what the goal could be. Maybe he is assuming Istaroth’s role now that she is gone in supporting the PO?
This is a very wild guess, but I really thing Venti has something to do with the Gnostic Pearl. Idk if that pearl is the same one that hatched the world, or something that holds the world together (think Mikha from HSR), but I can imagine him having some responsibility over taking care of it.
And if you think Venti holding Fate in his hands is a stretch… let’s talk about Apples. Especially in anime, Apples are often depicted as the fruit of Fate (look no further than Mawaru Penguindrum), and in Inazuma, the girl giving Fortune Slips is called Gendou Ringo, with Ringo meaning ‘apple’ in Japanese. Well… Mondstadt is a land full of apple trees, Venti loves apple cider and is often asking for apples to pay for his performances, is being given an apple in archon form in one of his birthday arts, created the Golden-Apple Archipelago, and even the top of his head in wisp form resembles an apple stem. Seriously, I go crazy with how many people never noticed that. This is too much in our face to not be relevant.
This sounds like a stretch, but apples are round and so the shape is not too different from a dream bubble. And do you know what the birthday art I mentioned had in the caption? “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core. Here, this half is for you. Let's take a stroll in the tiny little world. But remember to keep it a secret because... you're the only one I want to bring there.” If he isn’t holding Fate or a world in some way, then I don’t know what this is supposed to mean.
You know how I said that Teyvat is divided into 2 halves? That also connects well with his quote (when he gives us half of the apple/world), and with the idea that Phanes is the day while Nyx is the night. So maybe Venti is responsible for the half of Teyvat that we know/he gave us while Nyx is responsible for the Abyss side.
So… is there any proof that Venti is Phanes? No. Are there many many sus elements about him and connections with the things I listed? Yes. I could see the Traveler being Phanes and being entrusted the Light/Human half of Teyvat by Venti as a scenario just as likely, especially if The Abyss sibling ends up being/becoming Nyx, but I like this version more xD
But even if the main theory ends up being wrong, I hope people you got some things to think about.
Some videos for extra lore, more a less in order of relevance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZIR-tfzfd4 » Reinterpretation of all volumes of the Six Pygmies and the Pale Princess in light of finding out about the 5 Sinners of Khaenri’ah + Dain + connections of Istaroth with Khaenri’ah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3xYKtUniQ » More about the connections between Istaroth and Khaenri’ah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePjY4c0Rj0k » Elaborates on how a Loom of Fate is basically another database, as opposed to the Irminsul, and mentios how Istaroth can could create several Looms of Fate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAm9uElsKd4 » Parallels with the Penacony arc from Honkai Start Rail and list of evidences that Teyvat is a Dream bubble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhST-fz6Yps » Video is from before we learned about the 5 Sinners, and I’m not fully sold on the chronology, but I still think it does a good job at elaborating n the serpent thing from the gnostic chorus and other things we can infer about genshin thanks to parallels to Penacony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHCv8KFdL6M&t=1045s » Ties sacramental bread and blood with wine and the way wisdom/abilities can be passed down thrown ingesting parts of gods, and the concept of fairy rings and The Ring of Nibelung, with the concept of a Chemical Marriage.
Venti is more likely to be Phanes son than istaroths
WARING MANY TANGETS AHEAD, THIS POST IS KIND OF JUST ME POINTING OUT STUFF A BIT
It is said in venti's drip marketing that he is the prodigal son, the one in christantay that and I quote Kaeya has taken over my life, man — Friendly reminder that Venti is called the... (tumblr.com), this post here.
"The FUCKING prodigal son. Aka the christian parable in which a drunk son runs away from his family, spends all their money and eventually goes back and apologizes and IS TAKEN BACK IN BY THE PARENT."
Now while this isn't enough to disprove istaorth from being venti's parent I would like to point out venti's connection with death. Venti doesn't have connections to only time.
So we know venti has connection to shade as wind and time is both worshiped together. but doesn't have connection to time as he is associated with death as well. So I would like to propose that venti is Pahnes heir. As that would explain death and time connections.
To help build up this theory I would like to look towards the types of artifacts that we get. A feather of death, A flower of life, a goblet of space, a time measuring device and a crown. Which people have theorized to represent Phanes and the shades. With Phanes having authority over these aspects of Teyvat. If venti was the heir it would support him having connections with time and death
Thing to note. Barbatos the Goetia demon is said to when summon appear with Four kings and legions. Interesting. Looks to venti also having Four winds.
Anyways my biggest support to the theory that phanes is ventis parent is the elements that Anemo has reactions with and what is associated with them.
Hydro as we know has a strong association with life, with the primordial see, plus the healers.
Pyro seems to have a decent amount of death connected with them.
And elctro has had Istaroth visiting the nation of Inazuma twice, plus with a general theme of eternity, and time passing, not passing.
cant say much for cryo right now but what do all these elements have in common is that they can be swirled by ameno. I belive a simalar idea can be applied with venti using death and time. he is simply swirling the elements.
Venti is more likely to be Phanes son than istaroths
WARING MANY TANGETS AHEAD, THIS POST IS KIND OF JUST ME POINTING OUT STUFF A BIT
It is said in venti's drip marketing that he is the prodigal son, the one in christantay that and I quote Kaeya has taken over my life, man — Friendly reminder that Venti is called the... (tumblr.com), this post here.
"The FUCKING prodigal son. Aka the christian parable in which a drunk son runs away from his family, spends all their money and eventually goes back and apologizes and IS TAKEN BACK IN BY THE PARENT."
Now while this isn't enough to disprove istaorth from being venti's parent I would like to point out venti's connection with death. Venti doesn't have connections to only time.
So we know venti has connection to shade as wind and time is both worshiped together. but doesn't have connection to time as he is associated with death as well. So I would like to propose that venti is Pahnes heir. As that would explain death and time connections.
To help build up this theory I would like to look towards the types of artifacts that we get. A feather of death, A flower of life, a goblet of space, a time measuring device and a crown. Which people have theorized to represent Phanes and the shades. With Phanes having authority over these aspects of Teyvat. If venti was the heir it would support him having connections with time and death
Thing to note. Barbatos the Goetia demon is said to when summon appear with Four kings and legions. Interesting. Looks to venti also having Four winds.
Anyways my biggest support to the theory that phanes is ventis parent is the elements that Anemo has reactions with and what is associated with them.
Hydro as we know has a strong association with life, with the primordial see, plus the healers.
Pyro seems to have a decent amount of death connected with them.
And elctro has had Istaroth visiting the nation of Inazuma twice, plus with a general theme of eternity, and time passing, not passing.
cant say much for cryo right now but what do all these elements have in common is that they can be swirled by ameno. I belive a simalar idea can be applied with venti using death and time. he is simply swirling the elements.
Been thinking about the hexenzirkel cutscene latley and this one little thing bothers me, at 13 secounds into the cutscene barbatos says

Then righ after that Alice says


To me it almost souns lkpike the hexenzirkel is avoiding something, it just feels fishy to me. The reason as to why they would only converge in those places, plus this diolouge feels disjointed and i belive that is for a reason, something did happen at the encounter, just because you never lie doesn't mean you dont puporsely leave out information
Crack outlander narwhal theroy has evidince now???
Okay so a while ago I made a post saying that childes trauma whale was an outlander/descender because of the reasons that whales are often themed around the cosmos and outer space and that there are whales on the space train astral express. But now I have some more evidence to back up the theory??(how did this happen)
it is stated in the nymph artifact set in Fell Dragon's Monocle "And before the dragon falls into the chasm that dissolves all things, he will think of the times he once spent with the hero. And at last, he will say: "Yes, hatred shall not fill me. I know that you have not seen the sights I have, and that is why you wish to stop me." "The star-beasts shall drink the amniotic fluid of the world dry. A hundred years from then, all life on its surface shall be wiped away.""
It is stated by the dragon as they fal into the chasam that dissovles all things(Primordal water) "The star-beasts shall drink the amniotic fluid of the world dry" I belive there is a russian tale that speaks of a whale called ivan that drinks the see now i belive that is the narwal and it has also been supported by the fact in the 4.2 livestream(Spoilers for livestream ahead.) That one of its attacks swallows up you and the sea.
The secound major piece of evidince comes agian from the the 4.2 livestream

With both the splash art and the attacks we can see the whale breaking through the sky and with stars comiing down simalar to the Travler desending from the stars. Again another connection to the travller is how themmed with stars they are star all around them breaking childes constallation there are not many othe charchters are. And in the english livestream it Sarah the Eng voice of lumine says this

This otherworldly litralley being descibed as not from this world, so hopefully we shall get and answer in 4.2 baby.
Interesting things to note about the nameless bard
Spoilers for the 4.8 event lore
Been thinking about how because Simulanka's Druin had the same name as teyvat's Druin they were tied to the same fate. Implying that names carry fate. If we then look over to the nameless bard, who is explicitly stated to be nameless, so here is the question does the nameless bard not have a fate?