St5 Speculation - Tumblr Posts

Very interesting given the canonicity of Vecna being able to acquire others’ powers through consuming their soul; as well as our predictions of Will being the one to stand for love possibly being his greatest adversary. Gay love will save the world!

Peter Pan Parallels: Is The Upside Down Neverland?

Lately I've been thinking about Petergate and I came up with what possibly could be another angle to the already complicated Peter situation— what if the name Peter is a reference to Peter Pan?

I don't think this is the only reason that the name Peter becomes prominent, although the show itself does seem to contain other references to Peter Pan, and even creates a correlation between the Upside Down and Neverland.

Peter Pan as a character has origins in early works from author J.M. Barrie, and the Peter Pan story as known today originated in a play written by Barrie before being adapted into a book and subsequently several film adaptations. The story of course being about a young boy named Peter who brings some kids to a magical land where they can never grow old.

It's written very small, but Peter Pan is on the season 4 DNA board!

There are a few instances about never growing old in the show, and they usually come from Will or involve Will.

The first instance is from season 3 during the rain fight, where Mike exclaims that they "aren't kids anymore" and they can't "play games for the rest of their lives." This is then brought up again by Will in season 4, but in a much more hopeful lens.

And then we have the Upside Down, a magical land that appears to be somewhat stuck in time.

I say "somewhat" because I'm honestly unsure if the UD actually frozen in time, or if there is just an impression of Hawkins the night that Will was taken. However, the emphasis this season on clocks as well as Nancy's mention of being in the past does at least allude to the idea of being frozen in time.

Does the UD actually function like Neverland and keep someone from aging? Will was only trapped in there for a week, not enough time to see if there was any anti-aging going on. Henry was in there for a few years, however since he changed so much physically it's hard to tell if he aged at all (and given that he was in his 30s, any aging wouldn't have been very apparent)

ALTHOUGH there could be a point to be made about the fact that Will and Henry were both able to survive in the Upside Down for as long as they did in the first place, maybe it has to do with both of their powers, but perhaps the UD was preventing them from dying?

Starting with Will, we know that he was in the UD for a week without any food or water. The body can survive that long without food, but water is another thing. The show makes a point to have Erica say this in season 3:

—which leads me to believe that they want to draw attention to the fact that Will was miraculously able to survive for so long in a place without any water. Perhaps the UD was able to keep him alive?

Something similar happens with Henry, too. It seems like his body was adapting to the new environment overtime, but still the details of his survival are vague and his ability to stay alive after all that time is still rather anomalous to say the least.

There's an indirect reference to the UD as Neverland in season one, when Troy states that "Will is in fairyland now with all the other little fairies." and while YES he means this in a derogatory way, the dialogue is still a way to point at the fact that Will really is in a magical land, and possibly even a hint at his powers.

Notice as well how Will's light magic bares a resemblance to pixie dust from the Disney movie.

Between Henry and Will, we can see both of them as being Peter Pan-like. Henry as Peter as in the one who lures children into his magical fantasy land, or Will as Peter the boy who doesn't want to/has trouble growing up.

Another aspect of Peter Pan is his shadow, which is detachable and seems to have a mind of its own. Which reminds me a lot of this:

Barrie's intentions behind what the shadow represents is pretty vague, although it has been tied to the idea of wholeness, Peter's attachment to the human world as well as duality, wholeness, and lightness within dark and darkness within light. (more to come later)

Transformation Theory: Tin Foil Hat Version

(Or, Robin does some deep dives on Noah Schnapp fan accounts)

Here’s an extension to my transformation theory, except it’s me fully embracing conspiracy and rumour and reading too deep into things.

Let’s start with this bit of “James’” “leak” which for the purpose of this post, I’m going to believe is true. Again, it’s the tin foil hat version of this theory.

A little while ago, we got a tiktok from Noah where he appeared to be in a makeup booth. We don’t see much, but we see them shaving his sideburns and trimming and filing his nails.

The caption on this tiktok was, “Never got to finish this but something big is coming.”

(also I don’t have tiktok and refuse to redownload it, so I’m getting all of my info from Noah Schnapp fanpages on instagram)

A little bit after that Noah goes to Paris for a Stranger Things fan meetup, and he’s seen wearing sunglasses a lot even in doors. Apprently Noah stated that he had conjunctivitis, or pink eye. In this picture, you can kinda see some redness and swelling on his right eye.

Now it’s a pretty well known secret that Noah was supposed to begin filming in May, but that this was delayed because of the writers strike.

I go back to Noah’s tiktok where he appears to be having his hair and makeup done, with the caption “Never finished this but something big is coming” if this is Noah getting into makeup for the show, then of course he never got to finish it because the production was delayed.

Now we don’t see any intense makeup or prosthetics in the tiktok, but of course, revealing that would be a massive spoiler, which explains why the tiktok is pretty bare bones. We do, however, know that Noah got an eye infection shortly after this tiktok was filmed.

I’ve had pink eye multiple times before, and it almost always comes from my contacts. To my knowledge, and maybe I am wrong, Noah doesn’t wear contacts on a daily basis. But he might have gotten an infection from contacts and/or makeup that he put on for the show.

Now, I don’t actually know all of the technicalities for this so please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that Noah and the makeup team could have done a makeup and costume test without crossing the picket line, it’s when filming happens when those lines get crossed (?? again I don’t know for sure, and looking it up didn’t get a clear answer) and doing a test for the makeup and prostethics on Noah before they started filming anyway would have been appropriate. They could have had Noah try on the makeup and prosthetics but then couldn’t procede with the actual filming part.

So, right now my timeline is this:

Noah arrives on set in May for a makeup test with heavy makeup and prosthetics

Noah gets an infection in his eye because of makeup and/or contacts

Filming is delayed so Noah decides to do some traveling instead but is seen wearing sunglasses because of this infection

The way I see it, there’s three to four distinct possibilities for this flashback if it’s related to a plot point and not just a tiny snapshot of the past.

1. Will had his eighth birthday specifically mentioned in the shed scene, where he got a box of coloured pencils and drew the famous rainbow ship. This is interesting because of birthdaygate and rainbowshipgate both being big theories; specifically the whole birthday thing needing to be resolved in Season 5.

It was mentioned that Lonnie left around 4 years prior to Season 1, which matches with this timeline as well. Therefore:

2. This is a snapshot of Lonnie’s abuse of the boys witnessed when Mike was there. This could serve as a great callback to Lonnie’s mentioned homophobic abuse of Will, and I’ve theorized for a while that Mike was witness to this and only added to his repression of his own sexuality.

3. This was when Lonnie left and they built Castle Byers - with the additional information that this supposedly is apart of Episode 4, this seems possible. I have an entire theory that Mike and Will visit Castle Byers in the Upside Down during that episode for a while now. It was mentioned only Jon and Will built the fort, but this could be Mike’s first witness of it and a snapshot of he and Will playing.

Then the next possibility because the boys would have been eight years old in 1979:

4. The flashback is connected to Henry’s banishment to Dimension X in 1979. I know of a few people who have theorized that this date is important in Will’s life to (from him being involved in the creation of the UD to this being the split point of a timeline). It could also be tied to any of the previously mentioned scenarios as well, except Will’s birthday. The one reason I do think this is unlikely is that there are only scripted lines for Mike, and having some massive reveal here feels like it calls for a larger scene with actual dialogues than the casting call implies.

I can’t sleep because I just have so many thoughts rolling around in my head. The more and more stuff we get about S5 the closer I can get to being able to ‘predict’ where they’re going with it, not with hard facts about plots and locations but the thematic aspects as well.

The way children and childhood seem to be highly symbolic for this last season is very juicy. The random children in the mansion. The Derek kid at the farm. The supposed leak about Robin with all of those kids. The disappearance of Holly Wheeler. The rest of the kids in the Creel House / Playground scenes. The kids on the military school bus. The multiple flashbacks to our characters as their younger selves. Taking inspiration from children’s novels such as a Wrinkle in Time.

I said before I think this show is actually presenting lots of commentary on childhood nostalgia, meanwhile almost the entire media and general audience dismisses it for being un-self aware. But it’s very aware.

Finally reading the book and Mike Wheeler is clearly inspired by Calvin from a Wrinkle in Time (which is a known major inspiration for the show as a whole and Season 5). Walk with me.

The "I hate myself" part makes me go a bit nuts here because. Wow! The alleged Scriptgate line.

Calvin is one of the three child protagonists from a Wrinkle in Time, and Meg's (somewhat) love interest. He is the inverse of Meg, a popular guy at school and star of the basketball team who achieves academically. But his home life is fraught and cold, and his needs are neglected by his parents. I have a bit more analysis on the Wheelers/Byers dynamics and a Wrinkle in Time here. He is 'different' like Meg and Charles; but he hides his true self in order to fit in at school. It's only through meeting the two throughout the novel that he embraces his 'different' status.

He is also gifted in communication, much like how Mike is known for delivering his rallying speeches Both Charles and Meg express disbelief at his assertions that he is odd at first because of how he appears to them, in a similar way to how El does in Episode Three. They face a lot of bullying at school because their differences are overt, and they don't attempt to hide them.

I really believe the Duffers' use of the word "different" is in direct reference to aWiT - it appears thirty times within the novel and Being Different is such an important motif that it got an OST (that I expect to return soon for Mike) in Season Four.

The framing for the two times Will and El mention their differences is almost exactly the same - both characters on the left, with Mike left obscured in the background, his expression hidden and left out of the conversation. It's such great foreshadowing that this will get brought up again; the context and meaning of the shots will change when we finally learn that Mike is different after all. He was just incredibly good at pretending not to be.

Bonus:

Hey uh..... why does Calvin's outfit in the 2003 Disney adaptation looks so familiar? I mean remove the green sweater and...

Wow, so the Duffers are really really going all in for the Wrinkle in Time inspiration for Season 5

I made a few posts about two months ago that are good supplemental reading material about how 'being different' in itself is a reference to a Wrinkle in Time, and how Escape from Camazotz is not about Eddie but another reference to the novel that symbolizes forced conformity.

We have (hopefully) photos coming later today of Mike, Holly, and Will riding on bicycles. Now this is so so interesting because the writers have already confirmed a Wrinkle in Time will be an inspiration for the season multiple times. Not to mention that it has already been written into the show since Season 1:

The 'A Wrinkle in Time' plot goes as follows: "Combining theology, fantasy, and science, it is the story of travel through space and time to battle a cosmic evil. With their neighbour Calvin O’Keefe, young Meg Murry and her brother Charles Wallace embark on a cosmic journey to find their lost father, a scientist studying time travel. Assisted by three eccentric women—Mrs. Whatsit, Mrs. Who, and Mrs. Which—the children travel to the planet Camazotz, where they encounter a repressed society controlled by IT, a disembodied brain that represents evil. Among the themes of the work are the dangers of unthinking conformity and scientific irresponsibility and the saving power of love." - Encyclopedia Britannica.

At a point in their journey, Charles Wallace becomes willingly hypnotized by The Man with the Red Eyes (a vessel for the IT). He tries to put up a fight but eventually succumbs to the hypnotism and is also kidnapped onto the planet / realm Camazotz.

Meg and Charles are siblings. Calvin is a boy from school who befriends Meg and then becomes her love interest. In the original movie adaptation, and at the beginning of the 2018 adaptation, he sports a distinctive green and beige varsity jacket layered with a red and orange plaid shirt.

I've talked about the themes in the novel in those two posts about, but I'll briefly emphasize that the main theme is nonconformity and how being different is good. Calvin and Meg in particular bond over their shared experience of 'being different', and Calvin is finally able to *cough* come out of the closet and start 'being different' openly.

And there is no world in which is this not intentional. :)

I’m a bit curious about what El’s storyline will be this season because I haven’t seen many leaks or sightings of Millie on set for a really long time

Very very glad you asked, I wanted a space to speculate 👀. About their filming:

She’s with Hopper for sure, and the current speculation is that they get found out by the military at the Radio Station some time during episode 3 and then are either whisked away by them and being used as tools to help, or they are seriously on the run from that point onwards.

David Harbour has been filming for a movie that just recently wrapped so he hasn’t been on set much so far, but should be doing a lot of stuff soon and Millie should return to film with him then.

Then my actual theories on what’s going on:

Remember that TLOU was a big inspiration for the Duffers and we can possibly infer what Hop and El are doing by looking at Joel and Ellie. I love finding parallels and using them to predict plots, if you haven’t noticed. It’s served me very well in other fandoms.

The military is running scientific experiments on kids. Headed by a certain blonde guest star. You heard that here first, possibly. I do not know more than that, but that’s why there’s kids in the military barracks and a scene where a whole busload of them get transported into the hands of the military.

My speculations are 1) it has to do with finding out how to develop powers in already-born humans (versus new babies) or; 2) has to do with UD-related illnesses the doctors are trying to cure or; 3) they are doing experiments to find out who can survive the UD and why. The only thing I’m sure of is that they require kids which is interesting….

El has special blood from Henry, much like Ellie has special blood/immunity to the fungus from TLOU. Both were even transmitted through the womb. Ellie and Joel throughout the story journey to a hospital with a bunch of doctors who say they’re working on a cure to the zombie virus, but try to kill Ellie at a chance to potentially create a vaccine. Since I have military doctors confirmed to be running experiments on kids it’s not a stretch that this could be a parallel we see in Season Five, and I highly believe this is what’s going on.

You also have to remember… Hopper’s previous daughter (SARAH) died under what I think are suspicious circumstances after he himself served in the military. So. 👀

I have a question if you are able to answer: if El and Hopper end up on the run, what does that mean for Jopper? Do you know anything about what Joyce is doing or who she is with?

I actually believed Joyce was with them the whole time until a month ago when Tate got the video of the Winona double at the farm. It pretty much makes Hopper and El the only ones to not be on that set at some point, and we (whenever I say we I'm referring to a few people I talk to who discuss these things) figure the farm is the new base of operations after the radio station gets taken by the military.

I think she is with them in the early part of the season of course until around Episode 3 when this split happens and they go to the farm set.

But that might be only sometimes, because when Karen gets admitted to the hospital, and then eventually discharged, Joyce is written as her 'case manager' on the found props. Why not Ted? Well...... we think he might be missing/dead/in dire straits. Especially with this Wrinkle in Time stuff - but I am not as sure about what happens there anymore at all.

Anyway, Karen is also at the farm, so I think Joyce and Karen are together with their kids for a few episodes before they separate and the adults end up joining Hopper and the military. Cara (Karen) has done night shoots with the military already and I highly doubt they are leaving Jopper separated again after last season and Hopper's wish to reunite with and protect his family.

There's barely been any spottings of her though unfortunately. Almost all of the news relies on stuff being filmed out in the open for people to see, so if they're filming on green screens and secret shoots then you get nothing. Like - I have no clue what Lucas is up to.

Do you have any info on what's happening at the mansion? I heard that the whole cast was there.

No clue. I really only get stuff originating from paparazzi, and they can only see what happens outdoors (and even then only share very selective information to people).

This is also why, if you see people claiming to know endgames or detailed information on what scenes are about - they’re most likely lying or heavily exaggerating unless they are very lucky to have direct access to actual production.

Take Me To Church-Gate

A few weeks back, I received a tip that Noah and Finn came into Atlanta for a couple of days to rehearse a scene alone together that never ended up being filmed. This was around the time of the convention that Finn ended up missing in early June (and we initially theorized was for the playground scenes).

I since received confirmation of not only this, but that the rehearsal in question was for a scene at the UD church set. The filming never went through because Noah got an eye infection / sty, so the shoot was rescheduled for early August. If you've seen me mentioning looking forward to August, this is what that was about.

The Eye Infection:

Let me link this post to begin with, barring the 'James' stuff who has proven to be false. I heard about the eye infection and my alarm bells rang immediately - I have a friend myself who wears contacts occasionally and whenever they get sties, they're always caused by the contacts. When has Noah worn contacts before in the show? When Will is being possessed by the mindflayer in Season 2.

The church is an interesting location, because it most definitely has to do with Henry as well. When the original countdown for TFS was being posted, there were images of a church - a location that may have been changed during development. The characters most likely go there as part of the continuing Henry investigation.

And we know Henry was exorcised at some point, but it failed. The sign going into the church is also a likely clue to this, referencing Mark 9:29 - a verse about a failed exorcism.

Conclusion for this part: Will very likely becomes possessed again while in this church. My source tells me they usually only do big rehearsals like this for scenes involving action, too.

My opinion is that Will was never fully exorcised either. I mean, he still has a clear connection to the mindflayer with all the tingles on his neck and the possible literal psychic connection he has to Vecna as well.

It's Byler, Too:

I suspect that Jamie has some part in the scene as well (given they scheduled it during his latest block on set), but the focus is on Will and Mike - being the only two other main characters on set at the time, and the only two rehearsing.

But going back to the church thing.... I wonder what kind of symbolism is created by bringing two gay characters who both have a lot of internalized shame into a location that is honestly the source of said shame? It's honestly not even symbolism. It might just be referenced in plain text. Looking back at that church sign:

"This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer"

"This kind" really evokes the dehumanising language used by homophobes to refer to gay people. And the driven out by prayer part, well that really evokes conversion 'therapy' practices of praying the gay away. So what if this is where Will and Mike finally admit their love for each other, and kiss. And what if that is actually what's able to drive the 'demon' away - gay love.

Especially during the Satanic Panic arc we are sure to see come full circle with the reckoning of the Hellfire Club in Season 5.

An arc which Mike is surely at the centre of as well, being not only a Hellfire Member in the past, but being family to the new disappeared child in town.

And it's not like Mike's love is what's been shown to us time and time again as the way to break Will out of his mindflayer trance. Oh, wait.

Consider it incredibly fanfic-y, but it's on the table now. An action scene at the church involving Byler where Noah is wearing contacts - Will becoming possessed just like Henry again and being made to fight Mike as not only part of the plan to get all of the Wheelers, but also as something that would break Will's spirit permanently. They're all alone with nobody to help save Mike. But the plan is thwarted through the power of love, and in a place that represents a lot of shame for gay men (especially in the 80s) - they finally come together. And it is love that frees Will from his trance. Whether through a confession or true love's kiss. It would be so dramatic and atmospheric.

Additional evidence:

Jopper's Season 4 reunion and kiss inside the Russian church, of which this would be a parallel.

The whole idea of "we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame was on the other side" from David Bowie's Heroes - the shame being in the actual church from the rightside up, but they're alone together on the other side / in the Upside Down.

It is also very likely that this scene is from Episode 5 or 6. I've asked and nobody seems to know which episode it is from, but following the logic of Episode 4 being when the characters enter in groups into the Upside Down, and here Byler are all alone, it is definitely after some time has passed and groups have split further. They're definitely not having any kind of confession in the first half of the season, so this timing sounds positive.

Multiple rehearsals. Noah contacting his acting coach recently for advice. Them even having to cancel an entire shoot because of a sty indicates close-up shots for sure.

Anyway. I'd really love to see people's thoughts on this. I feel like there's even more I could get into in follow-up posts, especially if other people chime in with their thoughts. I have been buzzing about this scene for weeks now. I want to start another gate for old time's sake, so please use #churchgate if you want to make your own posts about this!

Hematology... Blood tests to check for "rabies" aka the UD sickness? Clearly related to the HIV metaphor they'll present next season imo

i feel like there’s a message here but i can’t quite decipher it. Maybe I’m just going insane

we’re being taken back to november 6, 1983 and yes and i already knew that but i’m still losing my mind about it anyways

nancy entering into a trance by vecna // will ??????? 🤔

Bruh what if S5 starts with Will getting Vecna'd on that hill? I mean it is a huge possibility. My baby boy has it coming for him i am afraid

Hey nonny, I'm sorry that i took a bit to get to this.

Listen this may very well go into cornplating territory. But listen to me. I've been dying to talk about the possibility of Will already being in a Vecna vision. Check this out

I'm sorry but from the moment we go on Will's pov feeling the neck thing until the colour of the sky changes (like it did when Vecna transformed into Max's mom) NOBODY MOVES EXCEPT JONATHAN!!! Check Hopper and Mike out!!! That's so fucking weird bro!! I invite you to rewatch the scene again. It looks weird, it looks jarring, it takes place in a WHILE. Know when we saw that last?!

Lucas in the scene when Max takes off the headphones and stars taunting Vecna. I invite you to rewatch that one too because it is jarring how still he is. Literally unmoving while Max talks,moves,etc. And if you closely look at him, the only thing he does for a while is . Look at her. Like Jonathan here. Literally only sideways glances. Lucas genuinely looks entranced and it turns out it was Vecna already!!

Now. What's super fucking weird about this is that we immediately get so many pov shots of El and the other characters it can't be solely a Vecna vision. Like, Erica and Lucas, the entire school,everyone is seeing this. But...Maybe it's both??? Anyway I haven't put my finger on it yet but my gut says Will is getting visited by Vecna RIGHT there and then. As a recruitment attempt, but visited nonetheless.

An American Tale

I was looking at this shot of Holly’s room and noticed this poster next to her bed:

(It is also notable that she has a violin)

Here are some interesting snippets from the plot of “An American Tale” that could potentially hint at her story this season (+ some familiar names and elements from ST)

Why do you think they are using Wrinkle in Time as an inspiration though? And Meg and Calvin are married in WiT.... lol..?

Not sure if you mean storyline wise, or why I even think they’re using it at all? I’ll answer for the latter - the Duffers have posted about it multiple times and tesserring was already referenced by Scott Clarke in Season 1. The second image might even be a picture of a shot within the show. Episode Six is named Escape from Camazotz.

Clearly, they are kind of obsessed with this book especially in lead-up to Season Five.

And yes… I said that not all of the comparisons are 1 to 1. They’re just costume references sometimes. Mike is dressed as Peter Bishop from Fringe in Season 1 (another Duffer favourite), but I don’t think it’s a literal indication that he himself was stolen from another dimension by his father.

I see this scene as being Mike opening up to Nancy about his perceived helplessness and inability to protect his loved ones. It is about Holly (and Karen) but it's not about the grief of losing Holly specifically.

Mike is going to be put through the wringer this season trying to step up as a leader and protector, but as one without powers who can't just blast away his enemies like El. He is vulnerable and human. Other than for romantic storyline purposes, this is why they're keeping the two separated so much. For Mike's own development he has to stand on his feet without her and her power.

Mike's insistence on El being a 'superhero', and that being a good thing for her can turn on its head in a scenario where Mike is put in her shoes. Mike now being the hero relied on by his younger sister, mom, and likely Will. Being a superhero means you are the leader, it means you are strong, it means you can't fail. And you can't be vulnerable. El knows this well - she failed to save Max from Vecna in what is notably the team's (and her) first big loss. Mike will fail to protect Holly and Karen from the invasion in their home. Will he fail to protect Will next?

holly wheeler - who/what are you? an informal post about all of the holly oddities I've discovered so far.

where do I even begin with this one? I'm just going to jump into it and show you all the weird connections I've found that mostly relate to holly-el/jane, holly-alice and holly-sarah. I have no real conclusions so far so I invite everyone to take a look and share their thoughts.

oddity one: the hair

All four are blonde girls, and three have pigtails or twin braids, reminiscent of rabbit ears.

oddity two: the rabbits

terry ives' home, inside what should have been jane ives' room:

holly wheeler and her rabbit lite-brite:

alice creel and the dead rabbit:

And why the rabbits? Well, they're all a reference to Alice in Wonderland. The first rabbit in the painting in Jane's room is just literally the rabbit from AIW, fitted with a pocketwatch.

Alice in Wonderland:

Just check out #whiterabbitgate for more on the two above, the song 'White Rabbit' is also connected to El and just general HNL activities.

The Rainbows:

(above is the Terry Ives flashback from season two)

Holly's outfit in Season 5 is incredibly colourful and there are at least 3 different rainbow items inside her room.

The Flowers:

^ Holly even has yellow red and blue flowers on her bicycle basket.

My questions have already been: why is Vecna/Henry seemingly interested in her enough to not only lure her but continue 'playing' with her for multiple scenes? Why is Holly suddenly relevant?

I'm also a BTVS fan, and the idea of a younger sister suddenly introduced had me thinking of Dawn. Dawn was Buffy's younger sister introduced suddenly in Season 5 (literally out of nowhere) - until it turned out that she wasn't a fully real person, but a powerful energy turned into a human that was sent to the Summers' house where they would protect her. She never existed until she was fourteen, but they all believed she had with false memories. Furthermore, she becomes the target of that season's villain which Buffy has to protect.

So then we get to Holly's room:

Most notably for this post are ALF and the 'A Royal Pain' book. Let me just show you the plot summaries for both, starting with ALF:

I initially thought the ALF reference was just a reference to El (and it very much could be a dual thing). But considering the strangeness.... and the parallels that are coming to light between them.

A Royal Pain:

There has already been baby-switch precedent in the show. In fact it's a major theory about Jane Ives and El - that they aren't the same child. But when it's been specifically brought up, it's been in relation to the Wheelers. Karen, was your other daughter swapped in the hospital? Or something even crazier?

I'll get to more when my ideas are less of a mess. But there's also something interesting @bylerposting has brought up - the way that Mike has this whole interesting out of place dialogue with El.

But what if it wasn't about El - what if it was also subtext for Holly? She came into the family even though she wasn't a biological daughter. The Wheelers were like her new parents, and Nancy was like her new sister.

And there's so much more I'm thinking of but can't get to right now, like Holly with the lights and her perception of the supernatural before others sense it. I just want to get this ball rolling for real.