Let Dead Dogs Lie By Silas Denver Melvin Vs. Harrow & Gideon's Perspectives On Cavaliership And Lyctorhood

Let Dead Dogs Lie by Silas Denver Melvin vs. Harrow & Gideon's perspectives on cavaliership and lyctorhood

Do you love to fight, or fight for love?

Cancel me if you want but... The fact that so many J*yT*m shippers go their way to write a full bible about Ra's being obsessed with Tim (plus writing extremely racist elements) and Tim hating Ra's and having Jason (and/or Kon) be all stereotypical BL top with the whole "I'm gonna kill that old pervert man" is...

Tiring. Predictable. Boring.

You cannot convince me this has nothing to do with Ra's being Ra's, you know, a non white villain who has a complex background and subjective elements. It's always that side of fandom having Ra's being an awful character to prop up Jason, having extremely racist scenarios where Jason rescues a kidnapped Tim forced in harem clothing, insisting Ra's is an abuser... It's tiring. Everytime I go into the Ra's tag, I see one of these people being awful to Ra's for the sake of it. Why can't you just write your JT stuff and leave Ra's alone, for God's sake!?

I'm. So. Tired. *Those* jokes aren't funny. Portraying Ra's in the most racist way possible isn't funny. This whole speech about why JT is okay but Ra'sTim isn't it's not funny either. You all just show how racist you are and how you don't care to show so if that way you can prop up a white character.

And honestly? A lot of people who are posting stuff in the Ra's tag these days should shut up. You don't know Ra's' character at all, we can all tell. But have fun with your awful treatment of poc characters, I guess! I bet you *love* posting it.

"Omg what if Ra's were obsessed with Tim's spleen and I write Ra's in the most awful way and I have lovely JT too? 🥰" amazing how you all wanna try to make your racism look fine but the worst part it's fandom eating it up and then insisting they aren't racist. Alas, who is surprised tbh? Wouldn't (and shouldn't) expect anything but horrible behavior from DC fandom.

If the coat fits wear it or whatever. Bye.

Indeed! While I have not watched The Vampire Diaries I have seen how deep and complex it goes with the mortal and immortal relationships and I do think it's very fitting to analyze Ra'sTim through "dating a vampire while I myself am not a regular human" eyes. For me, Ra'sTim works under the scenario of them being intrigued at the other, a very Sherlock and Moriarty type of chase if you will.

Ra's is intrigued because in his long life he hasn't seen anyone like Tim, whereas Tim is intrigued at someone being as supernatural as Ra's. And that's without even going in the villain/hero dilema which being so *much* flavor to them! ❤️

Something I wanna confess about the Ra'sTim age gap is that... It really isn't the horniest part of them (in my opinion). In fact I would be willing to say their age gap is the least interesting among most of my Tim ships, and here's why:

Ra's is usually from 300-800 years old. He's basically Edward Cullen but he looks 50 rather than 18ish. Ra's is so much older than ANYONE else that it doesn't matter anymore, because he's no longer a human working under what we as species and society call time and aging. Ra's is still human, but he's closer to a vampire in terms of mind.

So Tim dating Ra's isn't very different from Bella dating Edward (to me). Tim's 17ish in the Red Robin comic, so again, basically a sort of Twilight situation. Tim's soon to be an adult, he is aging, he is changing. But for Ra's a year is hardly a blink. Ra'sTim is no different from a Tolkien elf dating a human, where the age difference is no longer important. And while it *is* sexy to think of how this situation of immortal and mortal affects Ra'sTim, it's also true that it's not the same as the appeal in age difference in circumstances where it actually has an impact.

For me, the age difference in Ra'sTim is hardly as important as it in JeanTim (Jean-Paul Valley/Tim Drake) or BruTim or DickTim. In those ships, the age difference has an impact you can analyze and study. The aging is important. The changing is vital to how their relationship will work out, and you can even explore how growing old will affect them.

With Ra'sTim, it hardly matters if Tim grows old. Ra's is not attracted to Tim because of his youth, and because of the way Ra's *feels* the pass of time, I have always thought that it would be very natural of them to get together when Tim is going 40 and steps aside from being a vigilante to consider his life. But for Ra's? For Ra's it has been such a short time, and his passion is intact. Ra's loves through time and wars, and he is patient too. Tim being young is not the reason he loves Tim, and Ra's being immortal isn't the reason Tim loves Ra's either.

Tim fell in love with Ra's' mind and soul. It didn't happen in one night, and it might have taken years for Tim to admit so, because he's scared of being vulnerable and let someone back in his heart. But it's okay, because in the end, they have all the time of the world.

I don't think the appeal of Ra'sTim is merely the age difference, or even that they are nemesis: I think the appeal goes deeper, harder. It's about Ra's *wanting* to save the world and loving nature. It's about Tim and his savior complex, his need to be useful. It's about two men who always had expectations on there shoulders. Two men who are willing to sacrifice themselves and who love strongly. It's about how they challenge each other, how they fight and work together.

It's about letting someone *see you*.

These are so many words to say you didn't understand the point of the original post and usually I have manners and would ignore... But I'm gonna leave this here because you all are so annoying:

This whole "There isn't one true canon" to justify the horrible, ignorant and terrible way batfam fandom treats Lex is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you prefer some random comic of 40 pages written by someone who hated Lex, the major AND bigger canon has always been that no, he doesn't care about any hero but Superman. No, he doesn't care about Bruce Wayne at all. Yes, Lex is the smartest man of Earth. Yes, Lex has complex emotions about Kon and calls him son!

And hey! No, it's not okay to assassinate characters just because you "prefer that canon". It's hilarious to me that people will defend the assassination of a character by an ignorant fandom and then argue that they are picky with stories and "Talia sleeping with Jason didn't happen!" you cannot make this stuff up, I swear only DC fandom is this ridiculous.

Tim wouldn't stand a single chance against Lex, and I say this as someone whose fav is Tim. My second fav is Ra's and Ra's wouldn't stand a chance against Lex either. This is me being an objective person who knows that liking a character doesn't justify completely assassinating others in the process, which obviously it's something batfam fandom is unable to do.

And it's funny, truly, because people come to posts like mine to argue that "Doing Lex awful to prop up the bats it's good actually" but if someone said it's okay to do a bat dirty to prop up a super OH BOY we would see Troy burning down again. It's not like I expect bat fans to ever understand the situation and I don't care because I have moved on from that side of fandom since it usually is awful to characters like Selina, Jean-Paul and Ra's so the hate towards Lex doesn't surprise me anymore. I get how awful it can be to know Lex has so many things Bruce never will have... 🤭

Anyway! The assassination bat fans have towards Lex isn't right nor correct and it will never be. Making Lex homophobic isn't funny. Pretending he's some rich guy who comes from old money (that's Bruce btw) when he's the son of migrants just shows ignorance. Making jokes about him being republican shows that people have never picked up a comic. This whole situation is born from ignorant, unmature and annoying batfam fans and fandom wanting to pretend that's a valid attitude it's proof about how awful behavior it's justified when it's a majority doing so.

And again, Tim wouldn't stand a chance against Lex even if he were as stupid to try. Tim would need to be extremely immature and have the opposite of character growth to ever think he can trick Lex into being vulnerable and defeat him, and Lex wouldn't ever be vulnerable in the first place because that's literally how Lex character is: He doesn't trust anyone, he doesn't forgive, he doesn't leave untied knots, he's a genius that only Superman himself can go against to. Tim didn't *win* over Ra's so what makes people think he would win over Lex besides a blatant mischaracterization and ignorance of the real stories that have taken place in comics?

But hey, if we are gonna play this game of "It's okay to do so because people have different tastes" then I guess we can all proceed to be awful gen fans who bring up random no context panels to justify being awful to established characters! It's okay because I prefer that single representation of them over the years of history they have! 🤷

Whatever. Same old awful batfam fandom trying to justify their actions. How unsurprising.

Idk where the whole "Tim hating Lex and being annoying to him and somehow being smarter" comes from... Oh, wait! I know where it comes from!

Annoying, ignorant batfam fans

And it's not even surprising if we take a careful look. We're talking about the fandom that doesn't understand Clark, Kon and Jon at all and uses them for batfam prop up purposes. It's the same fandom that doesn't even comprehend Batman characters and says the most disgusting stuff about Jean-Paul Valley (aka Azrael) as if his character wasn't summarized in like, five comics you can easily read. The same fandom that doesn't get Selina Kyle despite the fact that movies like The Batman exist, that the Long Halloween got an animated adaptation, that she has DOZENS of praised comics you can pick up to understand her. The same fandom that doesn't understand freaking Ra's al Ghul as if the guy didn't have a trilogy that literally summarizes his character and also he's an archetype, how the hell do you get an archetype so popular as his as wrong as batfam fandom does?

*insert Misty breathing loudly here*

Okay I kind of got off the point. I was talking about the annoying portrayal of Tim and Lex, because those who do that don't even understand Tim. Tim would *love* to interact with Lex.

This is Lex Luthor, Superman's nemesis, the smartest man of earth. Tim would be thrilled that he can have a chance of going against him even if he's actually just standing next to a Bruce who tries to get Lex to answer a question just to get Lex drinking wine and telling Mercy to call security.

Tim is a detective, and we have seen how, despite everything, he admits greatness when he sees it. I do think he could get a bit sarcastic with Lex when on his Red Robin persona (we have seen how sarcastic he got with Ra's even when Ra's is definitely more likely to shut him up than Lex is) but I actually don't believe he would do that often as he would be too conscious that if someone is a master of speech, it's Lex Luthor. His words got him all the power of the world after all. You don't wanna start a sarcasm fight with someone like Lex.

And I believe as Tim Drake, he openly admires Lex. Maybe not in a idol way, but Lex is a genius, and I bet on the DC world Lex's career is studied both by people in economy and politics and STEM. Lex did so much with so little that I highly doubt there's a way for Tim to not admit that yes, Lex may be *bad* but he's certainly a genius and perfect at what he does. Credit where it's due, or something.

Lastly, I don't think Tim hates Lex. They aren't close enough for that, and Lex is often dancing in a grey area, and don't forget Tim is already fine with many figures in said grey space. Tim would consider Lex a danger, of course, because getting on Lex's bad side can get him killed. He also considers Lex someone who can and will do good, but Tim isn't gonna be the one to go on that trip of getting Lex to see what his genius can make for the world (that's on Clark).

The only thing Tim could dislike about Lex it's that Lex hurt Kon. And Tim loves Kon (in whatever way you prefer) and Tim comes to me as the kind of person who can't quite forget those things. He would be wary, perhaps, constantly on his tip toes when operating too close to Lex's doings and clenching his jaw when Kon interacts with the man because as much as Tim knows Lex is always in control and won't hurt Kon again... He still did. But if Tim held that against Bruce, wouldn't Bruce lose on the number of children he has hurt? Tim can't quite settle his feelings on that, but Kon got over it, so it's not something Tim keeps against Lex.

Tim is careful around Lex, and he's also a bit of a fan.

And well, he is thankful too. Lex brought Kon into the world, and Tim is thankful for that.

(My conclusion is that some batfam fans have clearly never read Superman comics but also it's funny they haven't read Batman comics either and maybe they shouldn't speak on stuff they don't know but that's just my opinion right)