Comic Discourse - Tumblr Posts

Okay you all Bruce fans REALLY need to leave Lex alone because it literally makes no sense. Lex doesn't care about Bruce, Lex doesn't care about Batman, Lex doesn't care about Gotham!

I'm so f tired of coming to the tag dedicated to one of my fav characters only to see insecure Bruce Wayne fans crying and writing whatever horrible s**t they can come up with to "make fun" of Lex when we all know they are trying to prop Bruce up since apparently they can't deal with the fact that Bruce Wayne is a WHITE STRAIGHT RICH MAN that literally comes from generations of rich people that came from England and were more likely rich and noble ever since...

Bruce fans are so insecure about their supposed fav that they need to bring down a character that doesn't even care for Batman. Lex doesn't care for anyone but Superman and the Metropolis gang: Lex cares more about Lois, Jimmy, Kon, Jon, Lana, and literally any superfam character over Batman. Heck, Lex cares more about Batman's villains than Batman himself. So why do you all *need* to keep doing this? It's tiring, ridiculous and only shows huge ignorance on the canon material.

And that's something that has me DONE with batfam fans: They refuse to read the source material and feed themselves on ridiculous fanon media and semi official content like the webtoon and pretend that's what Batman is and then cry when they see that actual Batman is cruel, arrogant and sad. These batfam fans can't stand that in canon there's someone richer and smarter than Bruce that, hold on, doesn't care about Bruce or Gotham at all!

Sorry that Lex doesn't care about the bats? But you all batfam fans are so - irritating! Don't you all have enough villains obsessed with Batman? Why do you desperately need Lex? Why do you jealous over the Clex relationship so pathetically?

I know I talked about less than a week ago but aren't you, Lex fans, tired of putting up with this? Why is it acceptable to destroy such a beautifully written character like Lex to prop up Bruce? I am tired, and I won't hold my words back anymore.

Idk where the whole "Tim hating Lex and being annoying to him and somehow being smarter" comes from... Oh, wait! I know where it comes from!

Annoying, ignorant batfam fans

And it's not even surprising if we take a careful look. We're talking about the fandom that doesn't understand Clark, Kon and Jon at all and uses them for batfam prop up purposes. It's the same fandom that doesn't even comprehend Batman characters and says the most disgusting stuff about Jean-Paul Valley (aka Azrael) as if his character wasn't summarized in like, five comics you can easily read. The same fandom that doesn't get Selina Kyle despite the fact that movies like The Batman exist, that the Long Halloween got an animated adaptation, that she has DOZENS of praised comics you can pick up to understand her. The same fandom that doesn't understand freaking Ra's al Ghul as if the guy didn't have a trilogy that literally summarizes his character and also he's an archetype, how the hell do you get an archetype so popular as his as wrong as batfam fandom does?

*insert Misty breathing loudly here*

Okay I kind of got off the point. I was talking about the annoying portrayal of Tim and Lex, because those who do that don't even understand Tim. Tim would *love* to interact with Lex.

This is Lex Luthor, Superman's nemesis, the smartest man of earth. Tim would be thrilled that he can have a chance of going against him even if he's actually just standing next to a Bruce who tries to get Lex to answer a question just to get Lex drinking wine and telling Mercy to call security.

Tim is a detective, and we have seen how, despite everything, he admits greatness when he sees it. I do think he could get a bit sarcastic with Lex when on his Red Robin persona (we have seen how sarcastic he got with Ra's even when Ra's is definitely more likely to shut him up than Lex is) but I actually don't believe he would do that often as he would be too conscious that if someone is a master of speech, it's Lex Luthor. His words got him all the power of the world after all. You don't wanna start a sarcasm fight with someone like Lex.

And I believe as Tim Drake, he openly admires Lex. Maybe not in a idol way, but Lex is a genius, and I bet on the DC world Lex's career is studied both by people in economy and politics and STEM. Lex did so much with so little that I highly doubt there's a way for Tim to not admit that yes, Lex may be *bad* but he's certainly a genius and perfect at what he does. Credit where it's due, or something.

Lastly, I don't think Tim hates Lex. They aren't close enough for that, and Lex is often dancing in a grey area, and don't forget Tim is already fine with many figures in said grey space. Tim would consider Lex a danger, of course, because getting on Lex's bad side can get him killed. He also considers Lex someone who can and will do good, but Tim isn't gonna be the one to go on that trip of getting Lex to see what his genius can make for the world (that's on Clark).

The only thing Tim could dislike about Lex it's that Lex hurt Kon. And Tim loves Kon (in whatever way you prefer) and Tim comes to me as the kind of person who can't quite forget those things. He would be wary, perhaps, constantly on his tip toes when operating too close to Lex's doings and clenching his jaw when Kon interacts with the man because as much as Tim knows Lex is always in control and won't hurt Kon again... He still did. But if Tim held that against Bruce, wouldn't Bruce lose on the number of children he has hurt? Tim can't quite settle his feelings on that, but Kon got over it, so it's not something Tim keeps against Lex.

Tim is careful around Lex, and he's also a bit of a fan.

And well, he is thankful too. Lex brought Kon into the world, and Tim is thankful for that.

(My conclusion is that some batfam fans have clearly never read Superman comics but also it's funny they haven't read Batman comics either and maybe they shouldn't speak on stuff they don't know but that's just my opinion right)

These are so many words to say you didn't understand the point of the original post and usually I have manners and would ignore... But I'm gonna leave this here because you all are so annoying:

This whole "There isn't one true canon" to justify the horrible, ignorant and terrible way batfam fandom treats Lex is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you prefer some random comic of 40 pages written by someone who hated Lex, the major AND bigger canon has always been that no, he doesn't care about any hero but Superman. No, he doesn't care about Bruce Wayne at all. Yes, Lex is the smartest man of Earth. Yes, Lex has complex emotions about Kon and calls him son!

And hey! No, it's not okay to assassinate characters just because you "prefer that canon". It's hilarious to me that people will defend the assassination of a character by an ignorant fandom and then argue that they are picky with stories and "Talia sleeping with Jason didn't happen!" you cannot make this stuff up, I swear only DC fandom is this ridiculous.

Tim wouldn't stand a single chance against Lex, and I say this as someone whose fav is Tim. My second fav is Ra's and Ra's wouldn't stand a chance against Lex either. This is me being an objective person who knows that liking a character doesn't justify completely assassinating others in the process, which obviously it's something batfam fandom is unable to do.

And it's funny, truly, because people come to posts like mine to argue that "Doing Lex awful to prop up the bats it's good actually" but if someone said it's okay to do a bat dirty to prop up a super OH BOY we would see Troy burning down again. It's not like I expect bat fans to ever understand the situation and I don't care because I have moved on from that side of fandom since it usually is awful to characters like Selina, Jean-Paul and Ra's so the hate towards Lex doesn't surprise me anymore. I get how awful it can be to know Lex has so many things Bruce never will have... 🤭

Anyway! The assassination bat fans have towards Lex isn't right nor correct and it will never be. Making Lex homophobic isn't funny. Pretending he's some rich guy who comes from old money (that's Bruce btw) when he's the son of migrants just shows ignorance. Making jokes about him being republican shows that people have never picked up a comic. This whole situation is born from ignorant, unmature and annoying batfam fans and fandom wanting to pretend that's a valid attitude it's proof about how awful behavior it's justified when it's a majority doing so.

And again, Tim wouldn't stand a chance against Lex even if he were as stupid to try. Tim would need to be extremely immature and have the opposite of character growth to ever think he can trick Lex into being vulnerable and defeat him, and Lex wouldn't ever be vulnerable in the first place because that's literally how Lex character is: He doesn't trust anyone, he doesn't forgive, he doesn't leave untied knots, he's a genius that only Superman himself can go against to. Tim didn't *win* over Ra's so what makes people think he would win over Lex besides a blatant mischaracterization and ignorance of the real stories that have taken place in comics?

But hey, if we are gonna play this game of "It's okay to do so because people have different tastes" then I guess we can all proceed to be awful gen fans who bring up random no context panels to justify being awful to established characters! It's okay because I prefer that single representation of them over the years of history they have! 🤷

Whatever. Same old awful batfam fandom trying to justify their actions. How unsurprising.

Idk where the whole "Tim hating Lex and being annoying to him and somehow being smarter" comes from... Oh, wait! I know where it comes from!

Annoying, ignorant batfam fans

And it's not even surprising if we take a careful look. We're talking about the fandom that doesn't understand Clark, Kon and Jon at all and uses them for batfam prop up purposes. It's the same fandom that doesn't even comprehend Batman characters and says the most disgusting stuff about Jean-Paul Valley (aka Azrael) as if his character wasn't summarized in like, five comics you can easily read. The same fandom that doesn't get Selina Kyle despite the fact that movies like The Batman exist, that the Long Halloween got an animated adaptation, that she has DOZENS of praised comics you can pick up to understand her. The same fandom that doesn't understand freaking Ra's al Ghul as if the guy didn't have a trilogy that literally summarizes his character and also he's an archetype, how the hell do you get an archetype so popular as his as wrong as batfam fandom does?

*insert Misty breathing loudly here*

Okay I kind of got off the point. I was talking about the annoying portrayal of Tim and Lex, because those who do that don't even understand Tim. Tim would *love* to interact with Lex.

This is Lex Luthor, Superman's nemesis, the smartest man of earth. Tim would be thrilled that he can have a chance of going against him even if he's actually just standing next to a Bruce who tries to get Lex to answer a question just to get Lex drinking wine and telling Mercy to call security.

Tim is a detective, and we have seen how, despite everything, he admits greatness when he sees it. I do think he could get a bit sarcastic with Lex when on his Red Robin persona (we have seen how sarcastic he got with Ra's even when Ra's is definitely more likely to shut him up than Lex is) but I actually don't believe he would do that often as he would be too conscious that if someone is a master of speech, it's Lex Luthor. His words got him all the power of the world after all. You don't wanna start a sarcasm fight with someone like Lex.

And I believe as Tim Drake, he openly admires Lex. Maybe not in a idol way, but Lex is a genius, and I bet on the DC world Lex's career is studied both by people in economy and politics and STEM. Lex did so much with so little that I highly doubt there's a way for Tim to not admit that yes, Lex may be *bad* but he's certainly a genius and perfect at what he does. Credit where it's due, or something.

Lastly, I don't think Tim hates Lex. They aren't close enough for that, and Lex is often dancing in a grey area, and don't forget Tim is already fine with many figures in said grey space. Tim would consider Lex a danger, of course, because getting on Lex's bad side can get him killed. He also considers Lex someone who can and will do good, but Tim isn't gonna be the one to go on that trip of getting Lex to see what his genius can make for the world (that's on Clark).

The only thing Tim could dislike about Lex it's that Lex hurt Kon. And Tim loves Kon (in whatever way you prefer) and Tim comes to me as the kind of person who can't quite forget those things. He would be wary, perhaps, constantly on his tip toes when operating too close to Lex's doings and clenching his jaw when Kon interacts with the man because as much as Tim knows Lex is always in control and won't hurt Kon again... He still did. But if Tim held that against Bruce, wouldn't Bruce lose on the number of children he has hurt? Tim can't quite settle his feelings on that, but Kon got over it, so it's not something Tim keeps against Lex.

Tim is careful around Lex, and he's also a bit of a fan.

And well, he is thankful too. Lex brought Kon into the world, and Tim is thankful for that.

(My conclusion is that some batfam fans have clearly never read Superman comics but also it's funny they haven't read Batman comics either and maybe they shouldn't speak on stuff they don't know but that's just my opinion right)

Once again got all intense about how annoying Ra'sTim haters are. I'm remembering that time on Twitter not long ago when they were calling Ra'sTim i*cest... Yeah I know, Twitter is hell, but come on! 😭

I think it's particularly funny because Ra's is a man who reduces his family to his blood ties and even then he is picky. He *will* disown his children (not hurt them! Do not confuse it!) if he considers he has been betrayed so the proposition that he would see Tim as family... And that Tim would see Ra's as family! It's just so funny to me. Tell me you don't read comics without telling me you don't read comics.

I believe Tim and Ra's (before properly interacting) used to see each other as villain and hero. Period. Tim studies Batman's villains and cases so for him Ra's is synonym of bad guy, extremely dangerous, probably best if avoided. Ra's keeps an eye in all the bats, so Tim (still Robin) is a threat too: awfully loyal to the Batman, highly trained, more likely will provoke lots of damage and won't die. And that's mostly it, until Ra's is forced to meet the bats more frequently due to Damian going to live with Bruce. Ra's is more aware of Tim's abilities, and Tim is more aware of the danger Ra's represents, which I think explains why their meetings go as they do.

I don't think Ra's labels Tim as Damian's brother, but he might label Tim as Bruce's son. Which doesn't mean that makes Ra's *feel* like he's related to Tim, and similarly, Tim labels Ra's as Damian's grandfather, but nothing to him. There's no familiar tie between them, nor is their dynamic close to that, so I do wonder why people look at Ra's saying he wants a heir with Tim's blood and think that's familiar and not low-key homoerotic.

I get it if people dislike Ra'sTim due to the "dark" elements (tho I consider them very tame if compared to ships as Hannigram for example) but there's nothing on them that makes it "i*cest" so I do get mad when people accuse them of so. Particularly when it's the fans of certain Ra's' child and her ship who do so, as if Ra'sTim fandom doesn't actually treat her better than gen fans. Hell, Ra'sTim fics always lean in portraying her nicely, erasing the awkward comic canon and allowing her to have her classical bond with Damian. I have even seen certain tendency to ship her with Bruce (tho yes I admit most fandom goes with BatCat, myself included). So the fact that they have this need of hating Ra'sTim is annoying, because Ra'sTim is NOT the fandom treating their fav poorly nor doing anything wrong.

It's awful that we aren't allowed to like Ra's as his own character, that we aren't allowed to speak freely of the interesting elements of shipping him with MEN. Exploring a queer, individual Ra's al Ghul has taught me a lot about storytelling. Exploring an scenario where he falls in love with someone who contrasts with him the way Tim does has made me realize that fanfiction can be more than "I disliked the ending" and that you can write your own opinions on characters that sometimes other people share. It has been amazing and I adore it.

So what I'm trying to say is... People should stop being these loud, violent haters. There's no need for this. Why can't people let others enjoy themselves?

"They" are all drawings on paper who are subjected to the rules of fiction, sells and the writer's in turn tastes. Fiction isn't real. Harassing people who draw/write about pixels kissing is bad and weird, actually.

Hope this helps.✨

Clearly you are someone who finds pleasure in harassing people over fiction and that doesn't deserve a second more of my time. I have a real life and I'm too aware of the actual global issues going on as to give a damn about people who scream in horror at pixels kissing.

That being said: Drawings aren't real. They can't hurt you. I hope one day your brain realizes fiction is non-real and that JayTim and BruDick won't come out of AO3 to haunt you.

Anyway, blocked! 💚

so i went to the blog of the person complaining so i could block them

(even outside of being anti "batcest" the way they doubled down on steph and babs not being batfam members despite how long and hard female comic fans worked to have them recognized as such was infuriating)

and they ship batjokes

and like ship and let ship

but,,,,

somehow shipping a man with his son's killer is more okay then shipping 2 ppl who share no blood, did not grow up together and almost certainly never referred to one another as siblings???

yikes on the hypocrisy

Not a BatJokes shipper being "anti batcest" 😭!!!

And yeah, even the weird attitude about who is "batfam" and who isn't was an screaming red flag to me. Personally I consider them all bats, because that's how their dynamic is. Now, asking WHO considers that they have a familiar bond is very different. As example: Jean-Paul is a bat ("batfam") but he has never shown to see anyone as family besides Cass, which was influenced by them having similar backgrounds and bonding over it.

Steph and Babs ARE bats, and they should never be limited to their role because of Tim or Dick. Just because Babs has a dad and doesn't consider Bruce a father, doesn't mean she isn't (canonically) a pillar of the bats and considered invaluable by Bruce.

Now, about BatJokes. I am a huge BatJokes (and Clex too) fan. Truth is that I don't go around considering if a ship is "darker" than another, I guess I simply run into ships I find interesting (for example Ra'sTim or SlaTara) and then, when they grow into me, I analyze their dynamic etc. So while I don't consider BatJokes more "problematic" than let's say BruDick, I find it very hypocrite to support the first one and attack the second, when in reality, censorship hates them both.

Like sure, you can like some ships and others not and it's valid to find things uncomfortable but GOD the hypocrisy here is Hannibal fans who are anti shipping level!!!

The anti rethoric has brainwashed so many people that some fans think "It applies to them but not me because -" and reality is that they will be burned as witches too when the antis come as they always do.

I genuinely find this tiring.

I find it laughable that people eat up the FANON thing of Ra's being a sexist jerk (put it next to conservative Lex Luthor please) and the few terrible NEW retcons done to his character. People not only eat it, but preach it, yet if you dare to pull this same "canon" card with his daughter you will get crucified.

If the poc female character has nasty retcons then that's not canon! How convenient.

But if the poc male character has nasty retcons then it's canon? Huh, definitely has nothing to do with the constant need of society to label poc men as dangerous and abusers ☠️

Anyway! Never forget that the original story of Ra's (that people who swear to love his daughter should read again, apparently) has him mourning his wife to the point he can't endure the idea of loving someone else, the only reason he approached Bruce was because his daughter loved him and he never dated to underestimate women in the field ✨

(yes I love my fic Ra's a bit evil but GOD these takes...)

you'd think Ra's and Poison Ivy would hang out more given their broadly similar interest in killing tons and tons of people to "let the planet heal" or whatever. obviously there are editorial reasons for not constantly throwing two big-name villains together but from an in-universe perspective I'd like to imagine they tried to chill exactly one time and discovered they cannot fucking stand each other for reasons completely unrelated to the eco terrorism. they had like the platonic version of a one night stand and now the vibes are so rancid they can't make eye contact.