Ao3 Discourse - Tumblr Posts
Actually I do think if you tag a ship in the relationships tag but its only vaguely, minimally implied or is only present for half a line you do deserve to have your WIPs disappear forever without possibility of recovery.
"Why can't the freaks on AO3 just go and make a site for all the gross stuff and leave AO3 alone."
Because AO3 is that site. Because AO3 was that site long before you decided AO3 was better than the sites you bullied us off of before, and I can promise you if someone somehow comes up with a fanfic site you like better specifically for the 'gross stuff' you'll try to bully us off that too so you can benefit from it.
AO3's specific core purpose is to preserve fanfiction, yes, but it was also instigated as a host site for the fanfiction that kept getting yeeted off other platforms like Wattpad. Its designed to preserve all fanfiction, not just the fanfiction you, personally, think is 'allowed' to be written.
AO3 is the site for all the gross stuff the freaks make. We've been there just as long as you. We've been funding it just as long as you have. AO3 has specifically said you have a place here. The timeline was literally:
Wattpad/FF.net/LiveJournal purge fanfics > AO3 is born > The people who's fics got purged moved over to AO3 > AO3 gains popularity as the best functioning site > The people who pushed for the fics to be purged off Wattpad move to AO3 > The same people try to push for AO3 to purge fics.
AO3's source coding is open-access. You go make a polished, strict, rigid site where nothing 'icky' is allowed. You go make a site where you can control what is hosted. We already have our space.
Imagine this:
You live in a town. There is a park that allows both people and dogs. You live in this town and decide dogs should not be allowed at the park. You complain and push and get dogs banned from the park.
The town builds another park for the dogs. Now there is a dog park and a people park. You see the dog park and think it looks better than the people park. You, a person who neither owns a dog nor likes dogs, begins to use the dog park.
That's okay. The dog owners don't mind sharing their park. Its a nice park. Its definitely better than the people park.
You like the dog park better, but you don't like the dogs, so you tell the dog owners they're not allowed to go there anymore. They're not welcome. Its a dog park, but you personally don't like dogs, so they're not allowed to bring their dogs here anymore. You start harassing the dog owners and trying to bully them out of the park.
"Just go to a different park!" you yell at them. "Go build your own park if you want to bring your dogs in!" you cry.
You are an anti. The dogs are works of fiction. The park is AO3. Your perspective is as ridiculous as the above anecdote sounds. AO3's entire existence was founded on you encouraging sites like Wattpad to purge and ban fanfiction that didn't fit certain, bias-flexible criteria. AO3's core purpose is to host and preserve fanfiction.
If AO3 did not want that kind of fanfiction, it would not allow it. Simple. AO3 itself dictates that fanfiction has a place there. You cannot storm in and demand its not allowed to host it because you've finally realized sites like Wattpad fucking suck, and not just because of their content regulations.
You're a guest in AO3's park. Act like it. Don't like the rules? Their code is open-source. Build your own park.
Tags and summaries are actually part of your storytelling. Please, for the love of god, stop making summaries that are just things like;
Read for the story
Idk I'm bad at summaries lol
Non-ownership disclaimers*
Character/Character slash fic
DON'T LIKE DON'T READ
[Ship name] highschool AU
[character] meets [character] and they work together and fall in love
Read the tags and check it out
*Which, by the way, you don't need to do, because AO3 does it for you. You don't need to tell people you don't own Marvel on AO3. AO3 would bodyslam Anne Rice for you.
Please. For my sanity. Even if you just copy and paste an interesting paragraph from the story. Your summary is supposed to summarise the story. Its supposed to tell you about the story. Your tags are also designed for that purpose; to tell the reader what you've written.
Is it an AU? Canon divergence? Crossover? Fusion? Who's dating who? Who's gay and who's just a himbo on thin ice? Is it 90s slasher gore or just a little MTV style blood splatter? First person? Third?
You don't have to tag every single aspect of the fic, especially if you want to keep some parts of it secret to not give away scenes or plot points, but please, at least give the reader enough to have a general idea of what they're going into. At least give them enough for them to decide if the fic is something they want to check out, because I know I'm not alone when I say I'll just scroll past a fic that has absolutely no visible information or detail. No matter how high the wordcount.
The onus of responsibility is on you, the reader, to ensure you're prepared to encounter - or avoid - content in whatever capacity. And here's a fun little fact for you:
You can filter by kudos and other criteria in order to find works that likely fit your "quality demands."
You can look at rec lists. Collections. Bookmarks. You can ask for recommendations from other users who share similar standards and interests to yours. And, yes. That means every. Single. Time. Because again; if you have specifics you want, its not up to the author to jump through hoops to bestow their works at your heels like a peasant to a 14th century King. Its up to you to go looking for it.
If you're so bothered by other writers and their "mediocre" content, here's a suggestion.
Write it yourself and stop complaining.
"Then just…. don't skim the unfiltered character tag? Filtering out a NOTP, a rating, and a few major squick tags takes literal seconds and is how the site is meant to be used."
Do you fucking hear yourself? Do you have any idea how many ships there are, especially in a big fandom? Am I supposed to astral-project to imagine every single combination of characters I'd find disturbing to read about? Every possible setting? And if I miss something, it's on me? Are you for real?
And hell, that's not even a solution. It's not that I would never read an incest fic, I would. It's not that I would never read that particular incest ship or that particular rating, I would. So why the hell would I filter for it? But shit like that is something you need to ease into, and that means not dumping it in the summary or tags that you read specifically to decide if the actual fic is worth it.
What's squicky can be so heavily context and situation-dependent that it is ridiculous to the max to act like authors are free to be as gauche as they like in tags and summaries, and it's readers' fault if they get majorly squicked by something they wasn't quick enough to "argh my eyes my eyes stop reading" on.
Let me say this even more bluntly:
I love reading rapefic, it's a major kink for me. When it's written well, and in a specific way. Ergo, I'd still absolutely hate it if it were commonplace for people with rapefics to make the summaries and tags explicitly vivid. Please, in all your apparently infinite wisdom, go ahead and tell me which combination of filters I should use to not get upset by shitty summaries while skimming fic summaries for something I'd actually like!
Poor or gauche writing in and of itself can make something squicky or potentially upsetting.
So screw everyone who replied to this post with some variation of "Just get better at Not Reading Things while reading". You can't always predict what you'll find squicky and you can't filter for "this thing I only find squicky when it's not done in a way I subjectively find tasteful". Maybe don't be so intent on making the archive miserable to use, mkay?
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No, because this time you've actually made an interesting and worthwhile discussionary point. Amusing petulance aside.
The language used in the post is not intentionally invasive. Its a reflection of actual terminology and laguange used by people of a similar opposing mindset to you. AO3 is the 'freak website.' The place where 'everything is gross.' Where you automatically must be suspicious or a degenerate if you're found to be using it.
"Why are the freaks taking over AO3" is a common complaint point amongst people who oppose specific types of content and subjects. The point of the post I made, and the language used, is to correct the fact that the 'freaks' have always been there. The actual creator of AO3 writes Wincest (an incestual ship from Supernatural) and specifically created the website in order to protect fanfiction from censorship.
Not least, if you're going to insist on calling people like me freaks, I'm going to brandish that label proudly. Its no different to reclaiming insults and slurs aimed at you. You want to call me a freak and call my content gross and icky and wrong? Sure. I'm a freak that writes gross, icky incestual monsterfucking smut.
And by god, I'm proud of it.
The language used in the post was intentional only in regards to being structured to reflect the types of complaints and false information and opposing posts that I see often. You're welcome to interpret it otherwise, but in any case, in order to appease you, here:
AO3 is actively and intentionally a safe space for people to create fictional content, regardless of what that content might depict, including rape, bestiality, incest, pedophilia, grooming, monsterfucking, necrophilia and so forth.
AO3 is, has been, and will always be the site for those people. People who are not automatically pedophiles or 'evil' because they wrote a fictional scenario. People who engage with the right to creative freedom.
People the law has actively sided with. Because, might I remind you, the FBI has actively told people to stop reporting fanfiction and fanart because it does not violate the law.
People have questioned lawyers, solicitors and local police services and have all been told that it does not break the law.
(And, yes, something can be both legal and still immoral, but fictional crimes can't be immoral because they don't actually exist.)
Not least, AO3 is the literal physical dead dove bag. AO3 actively warns you that, in using it, you understand and agree to the presence of specific content types and subjects. By using AO3 you're actively saying you agree to co-existing in the same space with it/them.
Its like me walking into a sushi restaurant to order pork udon and being pissed off because someone on the table next to me is eating sushi.
If AO3 was breaking the law with what it was hosting, it would simply be shut down or forced to remove the content. As it stands, guess what? It isn't and it hasn't been.
It is a pretty interesting subject, though. Your original point, I mean. I did digress a little, I apologise. However; the main point is that the language used in the post was merely an active response to that exact language being used in posts opposing AO3 and its rules on anti-censorship. Because its explicitly ironic that you're demanding a website solely structured on anti-censorship to... Censor itself.
Its like going to a steak house and demanding they only serve vegan dishes. (Which is another restaurant simile, sorry, but I went to an amazing sushi restaurant today and now they're on my mind, so.)
TL;DR: If you call me a freak and use 'gross stuff' as a pipeline to try to dictate what people can and can't write (because yes, people have actively said you can't write about twinks because its 'basically pedophilia') I'm going to tell you I am happily a freak and you can pry my 'gross stuff' out of my cold, dead hands.
I’m convinced everyone who criticizes the people donating to AO3 are just bitter.
Every year, as AO3 roll in with their donation campaigns, there are always these group of people who create posts in how “donating to AO3 is wrong” and that “people should donate to creators instead” (while linking their own accounts, because I’m guessing what they don’t like is that the money isn’t going to them). And here’s the thing: Why can’t people donate to a website that is, most likely, where they get their enjoyment and support?
There’s this thing in which people looove to make people feel bad for enjoying things. “Why don’t you spend your money with something important like *insert whatever cause OP wants to promote* instead of wasting it in *insert thing people enjoy*” and the reason that’s such a shitty take is that it makes it seem like people’s personal enjoyment is not worth it, which is a fucking lie.
If you personally like something, and have the funds and the will (this is important and what most don’t get), then you’re allowed to use that money however the fuck you want. That’s money you worked hard for, so what if you want to use it for a cute pin? For a ocasional fancy meal? For the subscription to a streaming site so you can watch your favorite show? For the website that currently hosts the many fanfics you’re reading or waiting to read? It’s your business, and whoever comes up with the “well, you should use your money the way I want to” is just a fucking asshole. The world is horrible enough for a random person in the internet to make you feel bad for wanting to support something you like.
The reason AO3 always gets so much money is because people WANT them to continue working. They have different resources so people can literally see what they do with the money they get, which includes supporting creators as well with their legal team. Are they perfect? No. Nothing is. But they’re doing a good damn job so far.