Asoiaf Theories - Tumblr Posts
Young Griff: Not a King
So, theories about Young Griff, aka (F)Aegon VI, abound. After all, we as a fandom have had a lot of time to stew in our thoughts, and it can be fun engaging in conversations about said thoughts. However, these conditions lead misconceptions to run wild, especially about a character like YG and his future.
I've seen a lot of people talking about the Targaryen Restoration, the second conquerors, and the three heads of the dragon in the context of Dany, Jon, and YG. A lot of the time, at least from what I've seen, these people accept that YG is not the Son of Rhaegar and Elia. I, personally, agree with that, there is a lot of textual evidence pointing to that conclusion. BUT I don't agree with him being the third head of the dragon. Now there's a lot to be said about when he was introduced and his prevalence in the story, but I'm not going to focus on that. I'm going to talk about YG's character.
GRRM clearly has a lot of opinions about what makes a good leader: Dany, Jon, Arya, and Bran are all great examples of characters who embody these. Each of those four are of the key five, are similar to YG in some way, and are being set up for or are already in leadership roles. These things all make the differences between them and YG all the more striking. The four are all wise for their age, intelligent, compassionate, and are invested in the lives of their people. YG does not have any of these characteristics.
He wants to rule not for the good of the people or to help the oppressed but because he was taught it was his birthright. A very entitled reason he shares with characters like Stannis, Joffrey, and ACOK Theon, men who the audience isn't supposed to root for (this is excluding the "Stannis the Mannis" crowd, who are stupid). YG also is only interested in carrying on the status quo of Westeros, something GRRM repeatedly points out is BAD. The sexism, homophobia, racism, and feudalism are not things the audience should support. So why should we root for someone who is supporting these things and whose arc isn't setting up a radical change of heart?
Am I saying I hate YG? No, I think he's a tragic character who is a victim of the greed of the men around him. But, he is not going to be a good king and would not get along with Dany and Jon at all. Jon hated Joffrey when he came North, why would he like and support a boy who reminds Tyrion of the little shit? YG has no respect for Dany and even for women in general, that is not setting up a healthy working relationship. And YG is so obviously a subversion of the "exiled king" trope (not the only one), him being successfully crowned, even alongside Dany and Jon, is wayyy too easy, especially for GRRM.
All this to say: no, I don't think Young Griff is going to be king of Westeros precisely because he does not have any leadership or even personal qualities GRRM believes should be in a leader.
On Euron and Daenerys
Something I don't think I'll ever get over is the absolutely devastating effect Game of Thrones had on how Euron Greyjoy is perceived by the fandom. In the show, because they were allergic to magic for some reason, they totally took away the supernatural elements from Euron. This left them with a villain with no motivation so they created the dumb fucking man we got in the show. A man who wants power and is apparently planning on marrying a queen to get it, end of story.
People for some reason decide to project Euron's characterization from the show onto his books counterpart. In the books, Euron wants to bring about the apocalypse, that's his goal, that's why he's collecting Valyrian artifacts, why he wants a dragon, and why he wants control of the iron fleet. And yet, people believe that Euron will end the books in much the same position as the show, except this time he'll be allied with and possibly even married to Daenerys. This makes no sense for both characters.
First of all, Dany would never marry Euron. Ever. He's a psychopathic misogynist who wants to destroy everything she holds dear. Even by Dany anti standards this doesn't make sense, after all, how can their "mad queen" become the supreme tyrant of Westeros if Westeros is gone? Also Euron has very little political power in the grand scheme of Westeros, sure the iron fleet is powerful, but a marriage alliance with the ironborn is far from the most advantageous match. Dany marrying Euron makes no sense for her character, even the extremely wrong interpretation of Dany antis.
It also makes no sense for Euron's character. Yes, he sent Victarion to try to broker a marriage pact, but this is influenced by a fundamental misunderstanding of who Dany is. Both Victarion and Euron are operating with the misogynistic idea that Dany could be easily controlled by a man. Euron has a history of sexually exploiting people for his gain, Falia Flowers for example. Dany has been around men who employ similar methods before, she wouldn't fall for any of his tricks and could easily get rid of him. So, once Euron actually knows about Dany as a person rather than a far off legend, he would know that killing her is his only option. Therefore, he wouldn't bother pursuing a marriage pact. Also it could be said he's using the marriage pact as a way to get the dragon binder close to the dragons, instead of actually pursuing it, which is why he sent Victarion, who hates Euron. But I'm not going to go into that theory lol.
All this to say, the way the show chose to protray Euron Greyjoy has caused the fandom to develop a very warped perception of the character. Euron is not seeking regular power, he doesn't want to rule Westeros, he wants to destroy it. On top of that, the deliberate misinterpretation of Dany's character leads to the prevalence of the Dany x Euron theory. They will not get married, they will not be allies, Dany will be key in defeating the Others, and Euron will die having failed his goal.
In this post, I talked a bit about how the removal of magic in GOT destroyed the character of Euron Greyjoy. Now I'm going to talk about how it negatively impacted Daenerys' character.
Magic is fundamental to Dany's storyline, which is why her story is one of the only ones that still has magic in it on the show. However, that magic is drastically reduced, there's now simply hatching the dragons, the calling she feels to do so, and like two visions in the House of the Undying. Meaning, aside from dragon riding, Dany's magic is only in the first two seasons.
I want to talk first about how they reduced her dreams. In AGOT, we have almost a dream per chapter for Dany, each of them pointing to her future as the Mother of Dragons, a dragon rider, and her later story points. In ACOK, her visions in the House of the Undying point to not only her future, but those of other characters (i.e. the Red Wedding, Tyrion, Jon, the Others, etc). ASOS sees the first appearance of Quaithe in Dany's dreams, and in ADWD, Dany dreams in the Dothraki Sea and sees Quaithe a few more times. That's a pretty big difference from the show's portrayal.
The removal of these dreams serve to make Dany seem much more similar to the rest of her family than she really is. It's a way for them to make her seem less remarkable and force their "parallels" with Aerys. In the books, while other Targaryens have dragon dreams, none of them are quite to the same level as Dany, with the exception of maybe Daenys (we don't actually know). She's meant to be set apart, just like the other main five. She, Jon, Bran, Arya, and even Tyrion are meant to have stronger connections to magic than any other main characters.
Jumping back to Quaithe, removing her really shows how little they cared about George's plans for Dany's character. Her connection to the resurgence of magic is touched on in the show, but not to the same extent as it is in the books. Quaithe is constantly telling Dany to go to Assai, one of the magical centers of the world. Obviously there is something important in Asshai that has to do with magic and the dragons. But apparently, D&D decided to fuck around and drop that whole idea, leaving Dany with an easy and pretty boring storyline after Meereen.
Finally, the show removed most of the prophecies. I did cover this partially in the dreams section, but there's more to be said about erasing the prophecies. Mainly the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai prophecy. Obviously, in the show, it was decided that the prophecy should be completely thrown aside and Arya should kill the Night King and the War for the Dawn be over in a few hours. This is a gross mishandling of the themes, which makes sense given who the head writers were. Prophecies are a key part of ASOIAF, and the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai is definitely the most important. Targaryens throughout history made unwise decisions in the name of the prophecy: Viserys II forced Aegon IV and Naerys to marry, Jaegaerys II forced Aerys and Rhaella to marry, (according to HoTD) Viserys I killed Aemma for a son, and Aegon conquered Westeros. Clearly this is important, writing it out in the name of "subverting expectations" is the dumbest fucking idea ever, right after mad queen Dany.
D&D also wrote out many magical objects that clearly are meant to have importance to the story. The glass candles and the dragon binder are magical objects that will change the course of Dany's life as she knows it. Whether the dragon binder Victarion has will work or not is irrelevant, its very existence could drive Dany off course from Westeros to Asshai. Maester Marwyn is bringing a glass candles to Dany and Quaithe warned her that they are burning again. The magic the glass candles have would have a massive impact on how Dany will proceed. After all, they could allow her to communicate with people in Westeros or Asshai or enhance her dragon dreams. They will also put her in direct conflict with the Citadel, as the Maesters use the glass candles as examples for magic's nonexistence.
Magic is integral to the ASOIAF universe. Removing it makes the story so much more boring and damages or destroys character arcs. Daenerys suffered so much in the adaptation, and one of the greatest blows was the removal of magic in her story. It shows how lazy D&D were, since they couldn't be bothered to figure out the magic system of the world they are adapting. It removes the interesting ideas George came up with, making it into someone's historical fiction smut fic when mixed with the other ideas D&D put in.
I am all for targaryen restoration to be honest. let my girl Dany have some kids that she so righteously wants.
Dany deserves the world, honestly. Being able to have a family and live in peace is the bare minimum owed to her.
Robert Baratheon and Aerys himself destroyed her family before she was born. She was happy in Braavos, but was forced to flee after Ser Willem Darry's death. Viserys was cruel and abusive while they lived in poverty. She found a bit of happiness (fucked up as it is) as Drogo's Khaleesi (aka bridal slave), but that was torn from her along with her poor Rhaego. After she leaves the Dothraki Sea, she knows no peace and is surrounded by the untrustworthy.
Despite all she's been through, Dany is kind, patient, merciful, and cares for others. She's a good queen despite her age and the false peace in Meereen, willing to sacrifice so much for the good of her people. She longs for children but she uses this longing to fuel her love for her people instead of letting it overwhelm her.
Dany deserves to live a long and happy life with children and peace. If that comes with the IT, she will be the greatest queen Westeros ever had, and if something else happens to with the throne, well, she'll still be happy with the simple life she always longed for.
hello! do you have any theories considering Dany's childhood? like the house w the red door, the lemon trees that don't exist in braavos, etc?
I have no beliefs about Dany’s childhood other than what’s stated in the text, and find the “alternative” theories that certain people have suggested frankly ridiculous. It is known to many that Daenerys was born in a storm on Dragonstone before the Targaryen children escaped to Braavos with Willem Darry, where they lived until he died of illness, and then wandered the Free Cities afterwards. There are records. People talk about it, Stannis among others. Her identity is not in doubt.
Oh, I suppose I might have an extrapolation from the text that the house with the red door was near the Sealord’s Palace, in the district of Braavos where trees grow in the courts and gardens of the mighty. And it could be possible that the lemon tree was a gift from Oberyn Martell to the Targaryens for the betrothal contract between Viserys and Arianne. But that’s about it for my theories of any type. Please follow my links, hope that helps, and if you have any further questions just let me know.
Hi there! Love your blog
I don’t believe in lemongate. This post here is very good and has many links that explain many of the evidences against the theory that Dany’s origins are somehow a lie. But to summarize, there are records of Dany’s birth, people know about it. And Viserys himself was 8 years old. This is young, but not too young that he wouldn’t remember his sister being born.
Maybe you could try to say that Rhaella gave birth to a stillborn and somehow someone brought a new baby to take the place of her child. But why would anyone do that? The Targaryens were being hunted. If Rhaella gave birth to a stillborn, wouldn’t it be better to simply tell the truth, that the child died? Why bring another random kid to pretend to be Rhaella’s child, only so that this kid can be hunted for being a Targaryen? And if the theory about Ashara and Ned being Dany’s parents was somehow true, why would Ned or Ashara or anyone want to have their kid pose as a Targaryen kid that was being hunted down exactly because she was a Targaryen? And wouldn’t Viserys remember if he had waited for a new baby to travel the distance to join them? Because if Rhaella had a stillborn, they wouldn’t immediately have a new baby ready to replace her dead baby. They would have to wait for someone to send this kid to them to replace Rhaella’s baby. And Viserys would remember having to wait for a baby to arrive after his mother’s death. So yeah, I don’t really think it makes sense. Besides, it’s not true that trees don’t grow in Braavos:
Trees did not grow on Braavos, save in the courts and gardens of the mighty. - Samwell III, AFFC
Trees grow in the gardens of the mighty. So most likely, Dany lived there, and the big “mystery” about the house with the red door is probably going to be revealed when we find out someone powerful in Braavos has some connections to the Targaryens. Maybe even the Sealord, because the Sealord was a witness of the marriage pact between Arianne and Viserys. So maybe, the Sealord will have some interest in Dany.
Finally, I just don’t see any narrative purpose in having Dany not be Aerys and Rhaella’s child. How is this important to the story? So, Dany is not Aerys’s daughter. So what happens? Does she find out and gives up on her claim? But if the point of the story is for Dany to give up on her claim, wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be Dany’s choice to do it for the greater good, and not something that happens just because Dany’s not the heir anymore? And if Dany is portrayed as a good person because she gave up her claim in favor of someone else who has the right blood, wouldn’t this just endorse the narrative that blood is the most important thing in a ruler? Why would GRRM write something like that? And if Dany is a bastard, what does this add to the narrative? It shows that anyone can rise despite being a bastard? But we already have that story with Jon Snow. And with Dany as well. Because she rose from nothing, whether she’s a trueborn princess or a bastard, Dany’s achievements are her own, they don’t change if her parentage changes. And what happens to Dany’s concerns that she might be mad like her father? With this theory, her concerns can conveniently go away and you lose all of her internal struggle about it. You lose the theme of children not having to be like their parents, because in this case, Dany would no longer be Aerys child, so if she’s not mad, people will simply say that it’s because she’s not Aerys’ daughter, and not because “children are not their parents”. So this theory undermines one of the themes in her story. The only other thing I can think is that maybe this could cause political conflict if someone can prove that Dany is not Aerys’ daughter (which is very unlikely to be proved). But I just don’t see anything that I would consider to be really meaningful in the idea that Dany is not who she thinks she is, and I also think it’s redundant, because we already have a secret parentage with Jon. The fandom has a ton of secret parentage theories, but I don’t think that every single character has to fit into some kind of big conspiracy of baby exchange or secret parentages, I tend to think those theories are all really far-fetched and unnecessary.
dany remembers a lemon tree near the house with the red door in braavos
arya notices that there are no trees in bravos
sam mentions that the exception is courts and gardens
there’s the sealord palace in braavos and as depicted on the map it has greenery
dany describes house with the red doors as having ‘wooden beams with carved animal faces adorning them’
“The Sealord’s Palace contains the Sealord’s menagerie.”
elissa farman stole three of rhaena’s dragon eggs and sold them to the sealord….
house with the red door is the sealord’s palace and dany’s dragons hatched from rhaena’s stolen eggs. what is also interesting is as @adreamofspring mentioned, rhaena was the one who started the tradition of putting dragon eggs to baby targaryens’ cradles to make them bond quicker and as @etherealdany noticed dany becomes stronger after her second dragon dream. did dany have those eggs since she was born and was separated from them because of illyrio?
idk if anyone else watched the newest glidus and alt schwift x stream but the omni-walder theory is the funniest shit i ever heard