Opinion Tag - Tumblr Posts

Reposting this bc the fandom is acting like a bunch of whiny children over the ytmk crumbs in the new chapter.

Read. Read again. And then shut the fuck up 😇

Of course, don't apologize for protecting your identity.

And yes, even back when I used to hang out in anti spaces, the amount of people that attacked others based on content that shouldn't even be deemed "problematic" in the first place made me dislike the community.

To the next point, I do agree with you that words can definitely change meaning with time. So I might've been exaggerating from that perspective there. But what I mean is- the proshipper community came up with our definition of proship, and *we* are *still* using that definition for ourselves; meanwhile the antishippers *assume* our stance is a different thing and judge us according to that. How fair is that? That's what I meant by "no my opinion", of course they can have their opinions but they will be disregarded by me because there's already a definition of proship acknowledged by our community and it's not what they think it is. (Strawman much?) So while learning an anti's opinion on what proship means could be useful in learning their stances, it ultimately doesn't change the meaning of proship itself when we don't define ourselves that way.

(Don't apologize for the block of text! I wouldn't have sent an ask if I didn't want to read it.)

People calling you a proshipper is going to gain meaning depending on who calls you that. By most proshippers' definition you'd count as one because you don't harass (though we won't push the label on you). But if an anti calls you a proshipper they're basically accusing you of being a, say, predator or something because that's what they think it means.

It really is a shame how many people jump to conclusions and can't hold a normal debate.

I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.

And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.

(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)

Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)

I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.

Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)

Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.

It's your blog, you should ramble. And if that information about dealing with anxiety is also on the internet anyways people will find a way to access it so don't worry about that. I think.

I think you've already seen some terms by now: comshipper means shipping things that would be complicated in real life and darkshipper means shipping things that would be deplorable in real life. In that case I don't actually mind if people put "darkshippers DNI" or whatever in their bio, they're allowed to not like dark subjects but it gets icky when they're attacking an *anti harassment* identity. That being said, most comshippers and darkshippers are proshippers, yes. And most of us accept them in the community. Which makes others think we allow these acts in real life apparently. As for the ship you mentioned, I don't know the characters so I can't give accurate input but it's no surprise to me that antis attack even vanilla (?) ships.

Funny how you mentioned pro/neutral/antis. If you make a poll you should probably include stuff like "neutral but proship leaning" or whatever too. So funfact, I've seen neutrals get criticized by both sides here. Antis criticize them for not being *heavily* against proshippers as much as they are. And proshippers criticize them by saying "you either harass people or you don't, what's there to be neutral about". I guess there's nuance in some related topics ("what counts as dark content, what counts as romanticizing etc" not "should harassment be okay?" type). Not to mention people who don't identify as proship because they don't want to be attacked and all that.

A lot of people especially proshippers talk about how fandom used to be so peaceful back then but I can't find proof of those times right now. /neu

What I remember/ know (reciting from memory, will take time to find sources, might have incorrect bits) is that a portion of antishipping has its roots in misogyny and that's got to do with how the proship label came to be as well. Also the antis I see novadays acting like a cult or how some political bigots treat minorities. The gay comparison from the previous reblog reminded me of that. Bigots years ago thought gay and "mentally ill" or "predator" were the same thing and tried to define queer terms to their own accord. It sounds a lot like what antis are doing to us now. Of course I acknowledge that the former incident was much more serious than the latter.

I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.

And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.

(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)

Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)

I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.

Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)

Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.

Idea: You could add the amount of violent people who played those games vs those who didn't as well as people who played those games that turned violent vs those who didn't.

As well as *some* sort of media really being similar to propaganda. I've recently seen a video discussing that those military or real life criminal edits popping up recently are pretty much propaganda material or have more potential to turn impressionable young kids into criminals more than most violent video games. Or how young TCC members might idolize them but not actual criminologists with degrees. I still don't think those things will inherently definitely drive someone to be bigoted or violent (I mean I've seen them but I'm not like that) but it's interesting to think about.

Well... Maybe *I* might make a post about that but it's nice talking about it to people who are interested in it.

when I have time, I may write information about the different studies done about violent video games causing violence. Because when I looked up recently to see what politicians said anything about it, I learned that Trump blamed them for being the cause of violence in the US after a 2018 school shooting. So, there were numerous interesting articles, one even dating back to 2004-ish. Plus, I really enjoy psychological studies.

My ask!

That anon might be right, maybe we need more positivity in the community. So here is some proshipper positivity and validation because I'm wearing yellow today!~

Minor proshippers are valid! The safety rules of the internet still matter but you're not being "brainwashed" for it.

Adult proshippers are valid! You're not a creep for being so.

Proshippers who have been here since the beginning of fandom are valid! Thank you for your service.

Proshippers who realized just yesterday are valid! Welcome to the community.

Proshippers who are ex antis, whether they used to harass or never harassed in the first place, are valid! Your actions in the past don't have to define who you are now.

Proshippers who are loud and vocal about it and posting about it are valid! Thank you for helping build community, be careful out there.

Proshippers who remain quiet and don't get into fandom drama are valid! Sometimes you just want the peace and quiet.

Proshippers who feel like they can't be themselves in certain spaces are valid! I'm sorry for your circumstances, hoping you'll find more acceptance soon.

Proshippers who are also com/ darkshippers are valid! Keep consuming your "problematic content".

Proshippers who only like peaceful themes in fiction are valid! You're not a "fake proshipper" because of that.

Proshippers who are picky with their "problematic" or non-problematic content and ships are valid! You still have your place here.

Proshippers who are paraphiles are valid! Your existence is not a threat, and you deserve support and outlets for yourself.

Proshippers who are/ were traumatized or mentally ill, whether that affects their stance or not, are valid! You deserve all the support you can get, not to mention com/darkship content *is* a healthy coping mechanism.

Proshippers who are not traumatized, or don't have trauma relating to the specific content they like, are valid! You don't need to be any certain way to be a proshipper.

And many more.

And thank you admin for running the blog, always remember to take care of yourself if it gets too stressful.

ᦗᦗᦗᦗᦗ

So, let me get this right:

Being attracted to fictional serial murderers is okay,

Being attracted to fictional terrorists is okay,

Being attracted to fictional monsters is okay,

But being attracted to fictional children is wrong?

Hm, noted.

Could you specify what exactly you mean by that? Like what exactly do you think will cause an issue when adults and minors interact?

I mean there are the obvious stuff like discussing detailed NSFW acts with minors and NSFW about the minors themselves. Which shouldn't be done.

But I don't think talking about people's experiences within NSFW spaces is inherently a bad thing as long as you're not talking about their private sexual life? If it's spoken about with respecting language and all it's even similar to sex-ed in my opinion. Which is meant to prevent people especially minors from being (for example) groomed because they can tell the signs.

So I guess what I'm saying is people talking about these topics doesn't inherently create an NSFW space? Like I don't think telling a minor "hey be careful reblogging art like [X] because it is actually a fetish piece and you're inserting yourself in adult spaces" creates a sexual environment, despite being a talk about NSFW content experiences somewhat. Actually I can think of a blog that does this while not being inappropriate. And this can be applied to anti vs proship discussions as long as it's well-monitored.

Unless there is something I'm missing?

I think my oddness with the proship/antiship minors is that they often bring up the nsfw content in communities. Many social media platforms have made it so those under the age of 18 are private or are unable to access mature content. Not to mention that most adults in fan base communities are uncomfortable with engaging with minors in an nsfw setting. So, when proship discussions take a hard turn into nsfw discussions, it’s hard to keep everyone in a safe environment. With their being so many minors in the proship community, how do I also learn about their experiences while also keeping the adults comfortable when it takes that inevitable turn?

Five times? Oof. Well, you are patient for rewriting all that.

Now you've made a few points that I could also discuss further but to make it simple I will number them:

1) Kids being in adults spaces and adults making non-kid-friendly content for media made for kids has been a discussion in the proship community too. I remember this from years ago, which was when I first started agreeing with proship beliefs despite hanging in anti spaces. XD Anyways for the first part it's easy to tell, it's the parents' responsibility. For the second one, I think that adults can participate in kid-friendly fandoms but appropriate tagging and not allowing kids into the adult sub-spaces is a must. They can also pick a different name for the NSFW content to tag their works with them and not the main tag, like a certain fandom I know.

2) I've seen a poll on tumblr made that way, I can try to send it to you if you'd like (and if I can find it.)

3) I struggled to find some resources here and there too, but if you accept screenshots of things antis say there are plenty on tumblr that fall in that category. Similar to anti kink stuff, like sorry to bring that up but they're pretty much antishippers but instead of shows they talk about people's fantasies, which are also a piece of fiction. Anyways. I think I found a piece about antis being cult-like if you'd like it?

4) That is an interesting topic, however, I think it has a major US-centricism flaw. If you're planning to make it into a poll or a larger subject in general, please either consider different kinds of fandom and political spaces across the world or let it be known beforehand that it's a matter regarding the USAmerican fandom spaces only. Because it's disheartening to get into a subject you like only to find it doesn't apply to you at all.

An observation is that I (and another blogger that shows up when you search the pro-antiship debate, apparently) think both antiship and proshippers are more left leaning, antishippers are criticized because some points they make resemble right leaning people's a bit too much. Such as the censorship and all.

Which brings me to my last point, which isn't really a criticization, that it'd probably help you to look into labels like profic, anticensorship and all that. The last one being more related to political topics. While most proshippers are also profic and anti censorship, some of them don't like to be involved in debates regarding real life matters because they're here for the ship part. Meanwhile someone whose general stance is anti censorship and freedom of speech might be more interested in it.

I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.

And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.

(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)

Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)

I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.

Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)

Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.

I think you could achieve that by keeping it small and simple? Monitoring is definitely a hard subject especially if it's like a Discord server or a Twitter page (where people are more active). If you ran a blog similar to this or just kept running this one as you do would it still be hard for you to monitor it? I mean you'd be basically receiving them in your inbox and you could clear out anything that's potentially dangerous. There are replies and reblogs too but a lot of posts don't reach an amount that's unmanageable. Assuming you're trying to get people to talk about their experiences via a post you could set up the rules in the post to show what's acceptable and what is not and block anyone who breaks them. That's what I can come up with.

Or of course, you can ask people or minors to simply not bring that sort of content to your blog. No use forcing yourself to talk about something if it brings you stress.

(And I know that not every minor is honest but if you look at it literally everyone has a chance of being a liar?)

I think my oddness with the proship/antiship minors is that they often bring up the nsfw content in communities. Many social media platforms have made it so those under the age of 18 are private or are unable to access mature content. Not to mention that most adults in fan base communities are uncomfortable with engaging with minors in an nsfw setting. So, when proship discussions take a hard turn into nsfw discussions, it’s hard to keep everyone in a safe environment. With their being so many minors in the proship community, how do I also learn about their experiences while also keeping the adults comfortable when it takes that inevitable turn?

1- To me an anti giving away a false sense of comfort with "I'm against everything that's bad in real life so I only depict acceptable themes in fiction" and then actually depicting a complex and serious subject is worse than a proshipper making a dark fic with messed up themes but also properly tagging it and calling the abuse what it is. Some might disagree but oh well.

2- [The poll with "adjacent" options, though I didn't read many of the notes on the post so I don't really know if there is useful info]

[The only poll that matters, obviously... haha]

[The anti and cult article, though I haven't read all the details]

3- Definitely an interesting bunch, and everyone is welcome even if they just want to lurk. (Funny enough there are non-profic members of the kink community so I guess that happens)

4- Even so, even if you added European voices for example, it'd still be western-heavy. Which is fine unless you're trying to make a general statement about the state of internet in the whole world. Like take Japan for example, besides the politics, the way dark content is viewed is so much different than the western fandoms. I think the way living under a censoring government affects one's views on this topic is very interesting too, though it's not the same thing as your initial subject. Oh also, apparently there is an alt right proshipper population as well?.. It's all complicated and nuanced, and I'll be honest I'm not really interested in politics except for the sociological effects and such.

I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.

And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.

(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)

Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)

I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.

Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)

Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.

1- Yeah agreed with that one, it's similar to what I was meaning to say. Tagging correctly is an important part of curating your online experience and it shouldn't be ignored.

2- Of course! Though I only sent the second link for the laughs haha. It's not a discussion post. But now that I think about it there is another poll that has no adjacent options and less notes if that interests you.

3 (actually 4)- Oh yes I'm sure making an all encompassing study is hard that's why I don't think it's bad when people make US or Western centric arguments while acknowledging that it's not universal.

Outside of that though if you really want to talk to East Asians you should probably go on Pixiv or Twitter or other social media they frequently use in their respective countries, there would probably be some people who wouldn't mind talking with you about the topic via translation. And some other things hm... I know some African content creators are on FB and YT, some Latin folks have moved to Bluesky and all that. I'm not necessarily saying this related to the proship discussions (I doubt most of them care for it) but there are probably some ways to lift the language barriers as long as you know where to look, if you were looking for ways to communicate with people from different cultures. As for the Middle Eastern part I know plenty of people but then again I don't care for politics much. There are lots of folks I'm not able to include in this but you know how it is.

That got a bit derailed, but anyways I'm sure a lot of people would have a thing or two to say about their experiences with censorship and fanatics at least even if it's not fandom discussions.

I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.

And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.

(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)

Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)

I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.

Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)

Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.

“i asked chatgpt-” ohhh ok so nothing you are about to say matters at all

Just so you know I'll likely be posting more fundraisers as my blog gets more followers.

They might not even get any donations via my post but it's the thought that counts.

And I'm not forcing anyone to donate when I even can't myself, but I don't want to hear anyone (especially privileged white babies) saying it's all a scam or fake or annoying or whatever.

You might be inconvenienced by seeing them on your dash. They're "inconvenienced" by bombs raining down on them. Grow up.

I've seen more cases of guys condemming grown women who simp over/draw nsfw of underage fictional male characters than i've seen of guys condemming women who are actual sexual predators towards actual underage boys in real life.

Just this makes it clear what is their priority in this witch hunt in the name of defending some fictional character's rights; it is not about a genuine concern for minors, but rather an excuse to shame women over their fictional tastes. Take Erin Clover for example; she never did anything to be called a pedophile. All she did was simp over Bakugou, ship herself with him and make nsfw of him and her insert. She didn't groom any minor. As a matter of fact, she always made it clear that her account was 18+ and that she did not want minors following her. Yet antis think that drawing nsfw of an underage fictional character is equal to being an actual child predator. They do not care about logic; they just want to spreas hatred as much as they can.

When i see cases of women being actual predators to underage boys, there is always a big group of men who say things such as "Nice", "Lucky bastard", "When were these ninphos when i was a kid?", "I wish i was him", acting as if the victim should be grateful and making excuses for the perpetrator.

If fiction affects reality and liking certain things in fiction mean you want to do them in real life as antis claim, then why aren't these actual predators receiving the same treatment Erin received? Oh, that's right. Because antis don't give a fuck about actual victims. They're too busy defending pixels and putting dirt on a innocent person's name, acting as if she was a monster and they were the heroes. Though i'm not surprised, considering we're talking about the same group of people who exposes minors's faces on Tik Tok without their consent just because they're proshippers, tells a victim they deserved their trauma because they're proship, spreads misinformation about the profic/proship/comship community and its terms, tries to censor fiction, tries to police people's tastes, ignore actual therapists's advice etc.

These people are not heroes. They are the scum of every fandom. Erin (and anyone who went through the same as her) did not deserve to go through all that. Making nsfw of a drawing is not a crime. Harassing people is a crime. Antis are criminals.

...Not to be biased but that says a lot about them.

To be honest I can barely remember being able to debate (debate not argue) with one.

Oh well.

Antishippers, I’m a loss right now. How can I involve you guys in this conversation, where you can give your opinions, thoughts, evidence and experiences? When I try to pull you into the conversation, I’m met with silence and probably even ending up on several blocklists. I WANT you to share these things with me. I WANT you to be able to share your thoughts. I will ask questions, sometimes ones you don’t like, because that is how one can learn. I want you in the discussion, yet you guys act worse than adults in politics. At least the adults take the time to insult me more for asking them questions. I know they at least saw what I said. I’m trying to have you involved. If you want to change minds, leaving me with only the proshippers as those willing to talk is actually the worst way to do so. I can give a few DOZEN empirical journals about how this behavior actually makes things worse. Anyway, if you’re an antishipper please take this poll and share it. I’m proship heavy on it right now and I WANT your opinion on the topic.

Not the same thing but the anti stance tag in proshippers-against-censorship's blog is close enough I guess. Though most are aggressive some are just curious antis. I'll admit that I've been looking for anti blogs that are open to discussions or asking questions like some of them but I haven't been very lucky.

Also what empirical journals if I may ask?

Antishippers, I’m a loss right now. How can I involve you guys in this conversation, where you can give your opinions, thoughts, evidence and experiences? When I try to pull you into the conversation, I’m met with silence and probably even ending up on several blocklists. I WANT you to share these things with me. I WANT you to be able to share your thoughts. I will ask questions, sometimes ones you don’t like, because that is how one can learn. I want you in the discussion, yet you guys act worse than adults in politics. At least the adults take the time to insult me more for asking them questions. I know they at least saw what I said. I’m trying to have you involved. If you want to change minds, leaving me with only the proshippers as those willing to talk is actually the worst way to do so. I can give a few DOZEN empirical journals about how this behavior actually makes things worse. Anyway, if you’re an antishipper please take this poll and share it. I’m proship heavy on it right now and I WANT your opinion on the topic.

Threaten you say? We might have that in common. (1) (2, scroll down)

I've also been informed that an alt right proship or "proship" section exists and that some are being aggressive towards people who don't like the content they like.

Safe to say we don't reclaim them, proshipping is an anti-harassment stance at it's core.

So, sorry that you dealt with that (though the amount of antis who threat are much higher in my experience). Eh if you really do want to find a proshipper to ask questions to here I am.

Antishippers, I’m a loss right now. How can I involve you guys in this conversation, where you can give your opinions, thoughts, evidence and experiences? When I try to pull you into the conversation, I’m met with silence and probably even ending up on several blocklists. I WANT you to share these things with me. I WANT you to be able to share your thoughts. I will ask questions, sometimes ones you don’t like, because that is how one can learn. I want you in the discussion, yet you guys act worse than adults in politics. At least the adults take the time to insult me more for asking them questions. I know they at least saw what I said. I’m trying to have you involved. If you want to change minds, leaving me with only the proshippers as those willing to talk is actually the worst way to do so. I can give a few DOZEN empirical journals about how this behavior actually makes things worse. Anyway, if you’re an antishipper please take this poll and share it. I’m proship heavy on it right now and I WANT your opinion on the topic.

I am a proshipper for the most part. But there is a small area of exception for me personally - sexual RPF featuring minors. I saw the ask explaining how celebrities aren’t helpless babies and in most cases, I agree.

I CANNOT STATE ENOUGH that I don’t give a shit about the portrayal of underage characters in fiction. But in real life… minors in the public eye are sexualised enough. There are so many of them that didn’t want to be in the public eye in the first place.

I just don’t think it’s respectful to the CHILD to write sexual fiction of them. And circling back to the asker’s point… some of them ARE helpless babies as far as you meant it. Minors who have elected to be in the public space have elected to be in the public space. But so many of them have been pressured into it by their parents, etc., and do not like the fame at all, let alone this consequence of it.

I agree that arguments on RPF often infantilise grown adults who are capable of decision making, but in this case the people who are being discussed are NOT EVEN ADULTS.

I am asexual. This affects my view of this when I say it: if I came across sexual fiction of me, I would feel disgusted and violated beyond belief. And if I set a boundary by saying so, then that boundary should be respected. In my opinion, it is just general human decency to do so.

(Yes, I would have the intelligence not to Google myself, but people CAN be sent fanfiction of themselves.)

If you disagree, I respect that because that is your opinion. But this is mine.

It's fair to be squicked out and have an opinion, as long as you don't attack others who don't share that opinion.

Proshipper + agreeing with people above. It's very frustrating to me that people are taking a "comfortable route" while talking about uncomfortable topics, being disrespectful and lighthearted about it, as well as using wrong terms for it (for example even if someone says "CP" instead of "cheese pizza" it's still not exactly right because the correct term is CSEM or CSAM).

Mocking and insulting people for triggers and coping mechanisms is a no debate for me. Stop doing it.

What are your opinions about censoring words? Gooner, kiddie corn, etc.

Also, if you could preface it with pro/anti/neu if it’s not clear by your account? (Meaning your wonderful urls.)

Oh yes you got a point there. I did not bring up the antis refusing to use CSAEM because it's used by proshippers point because I didn't want to look like I was whining about antis all the time but that was kind of what I had in mind.

To be clear I don't think all the people who have called it "CP" are terrible or anything. And I don't think not knowing something makes you ignorant versus knowing the thing and choosing not to care.

So yeah CSAEM is a relatively new term and while it's mostly used in online spaces, after learning the reason why, I stopped calling it "CP" as well. Basically it sounds like it implies children can be used for pornography, or more like it still is pornography even though non consenting children (like any children) are present.

I'm aware that not all people who use the term mean it that way- but after learning this, calling it "CP" instead of Child Sexual Exploitation/Abuse Material (which is a broader term anyways) makes me disgusted, personally.* And I can't speak for all people but if a victim was told that what happened to them was "pornography" rather than exploitation and abuse it'd be more damaging I think.

*: Regardless of my personal emotions regarding this (apparently debatable?) topic my point still stands that some people who use the fake words mentioned in the original post can still use wrong terms for what they mean to say. Such as calling a darkship fanart "kiddie corn" in the first place.

Mocking and insulting people for triggers and coping mechanisms is a no debate for me. Stop doing it.

What are your opinions about censoring words? Gooner, kiddie corn, etc.

Also, if you could preface it with pro/anti/neu if it’s not clear by your account? (Meaning your wonderful urls.)