Proship Discourse - Tumblr Posts
What's your opinion on proshipping?
uuuuhhh idk really. So i'm gonna ramble for a second!
I'm aware of what proshipping actually means, something like ship and let other people ship, but things like tiktok and twt has kind of skewed my view on what proshippers are — which are weird noncon loving weirdos who like brothers kissing — but ik the rational side of my brain is telling me that what I just said is a fat generalisation. ofc some proshippers are like that, but ik most proshippers aren't and just dont care what other people do in fiction.
i do kiiiinnndddaaa believe that what you like in fiction does reflect your person in some way, since it does with me. for example, I consider myself to be very gentle and a hopeless romantic, and I project that onto the media I consume and create. but I have also written about some very harsh and dark topics in the past, just never in a way that glorifies or sexualises them.
I do believe that fiction does affect reality in certain scenarios... but I also know that some things are purely fantasy and it's fun to let go of morals and be gross and freaky (in a FICTIONAL SPACE!!!). but I don't think you're free from judgement from other people purely because what you do is fictional. If I found out that someone i followed on social media/or knew irl had a thing for noncon then I don't think I'd be able to look at them the same.
I wouldn't consider myself an anti (anymore) bcs they've grown a bit of a harsh name for themselves, but I certainly wouldn't consider myself a proshipper mostly because they have ALSO grown a harsh name for themselves and I've had very rough and weird experiences with them. I feel very strongly for fictional characters and their experiences, even if its a random oc that I see on my dash, and that in turn means that i cant really view fictional characters as little puppets in which we use to tell stories or project onto. idk whether it's because my imagination is vivid or something to do with autism, but it's hard for me to move on with my day after reading something abt my fav character being attracted to a child (even if it is technically canon... salad fingers...)
there have been times where I come across a darkfic, skim through it due to morbid fascination, and just regret it to the point that I feel myself physically restrain the need to type out my strong opinion furiously in the comments. but I know that no one forced me at gunpoint to read it and it was all my doing. I believe heavily in curating your own online experience, but have a hard time following that advice myself lololol.
and I think that's the problem with antis. they don't curate their online spaces enough and end up looking at the things that make them feel mad and weird. that was definitely my issue not too long ago and it just made my mental health terrible and life all dull and sad. but now that I've kinda realised that searching for the content that makes you upset and doomscrolling through it to the point it makes you seethe, and then venting about it isn't doing anyone good, I've instead channelled all that energy into finding people who share the same views as me and like what i like !!!! trust me, that is SOOO much more better.
but at the end of the day, I dont think I'll ever feel neutral about proshippers. If i see any terms like "proshipper" or "comshipper" or "anti-anti" I would feel that little ick in me, a hint of disgust... but I'll do my best to move on with my day !! people have the right to feel disgusted, grossed out, even sad about what proshippers do, they have the right to think of them as weird and strange because of proshippers liking what they like, and proshippers should expect that not everyone will feel how they feel. Especially since people who aren't in fandom spaces are sure to side eye you if they find out you post about twincest or dad x daughter relatiobships. but they do not have the right to go out of their way to bully and harass proshippers who are in their own little bubble with their own little audience, posting what they like. ofc you can vent about the things you don't like to people and on your socials, as long as you're not actively searching for it.
I have no idea if this sounds hypocritical or weird, I've read over it a few dozen times and I think I sound decently coherent. idk maybe someone wants to fill me in on some things, but I stand by my opinion.
you’re allowed to feel grossed out by whatever and whom ever and it’s fine to think that way about proshippers too
what is not okay is going to them and telling them your opinion of them. Proshippers have embraced being proud freaks, so your personal judgement of them over the fiction they consume isn’t something they want or need to hear from you
I agree with this, and I thought I made that obvious in my original post !!! it's not okay to go out of your way to shame and insult proshippers since it takes less energy to block them than typing out a comment. I just also think that people have the right to judge you based on what you consume, just not let that judgement be known unless it's with people who agree with you and in your own space 😭 it's kinda like how many proshippers complain about antis, so let antis complain about proshippers. ‼️‼️IN THEIR OWN SPACE ‼️‼️
also this is my blog that I'm posting on, so I'm not really going to proship spaces and shoving my opinion down their throat. be a freak, idgaf, as long as I don't see it 😼
Of course, don't apologize for protecting your identity.
And yes, even back when I used to hang out in anti spaces, the amount of people that attacked others based on content that shouldn't even be deemed "problematic" in the first place made me dislike the community.
To the next point, I do agree with you that words can definitely change meaning with time. So I might've been exaggerating from that perspective there. But what I mean is- the proshipper community came up with our definition of proship, and *we* are *still* using that definition for ourselves; meanwhile the antishippers *assume* our stance is a different thing and judge us according to that. How fair is that? That's what I meant by "no my opinion", of course they can have their opinions but they will be disregarded by me because there's already a definition of proship acknowledged by our community and it's not what they think it is. (Strawman much?) So while learning an anti's opinion on what proship means could be useful in learning their stances, it ultimately doesn't change the meaning of proship itself when we don't define ourselves that way.
(Don't apologize for the block of text! I wouldn't have sent an ask if I didn't want to read it.)
People calling you a proshipper is going to gain meaning depending on who calls you that. By most proshippers' definition you'd count as one because you don't harass (though we won't push the label on you). But if an anti calls you a proshipper they're basically accusing you of being a, say, predator or something because that's what they think it means.
It really is a shame how many people jump to conclusions and can't hold a normal debate.
I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.
And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.
(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)
Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)
I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.
Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)
Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.
It's your blog, you should ramble. And if that information about dealing with anxiety is also on the internet anyways people will find a way to access it so don't worry about that. I think.
I think you've already seen some terms by now: comshipper means shipping things that would be complicated in real life and darkshipper means shipping things that would be deplorable in real life. In that case I don't actually mind if people put "darkshippers DNI" or whatever in their bio, they're allowed to not like dark subjects but it gets icky when they're attacking an *anti harassment* identity. That being said, most comshippers and darkshippers are proshippers, yes. And most of us accept them in the community. Which makes others think we allow these acts in real life apparently. As for the ship you mentioned, I don't know the characters so I can't give accurate input but it's no surprise to me that antis attack even vanilla (?) ships.
Funny how you mentioned pro/neutral/antis. If you make a poll you should probably include stuff like "neutral but proship leaning" or whatever too. So funfact, I've seen neutrals get criticized by both sides here. Antis criticize them for not being *heavily* against proshippers as much as they are. And proshippers criticize them by saying "you either harass people or you don't, what's there to be neutral about". I guess there's nuance in some related topics ("what counts as dark content, what counts as romanticizing etc" not "should harassment be okay?" type). Not to mention people who don't identify as proship because they don't want to be attacked and all that.
A lot of people especially proshippers talk about how fandom used to be so peaceful back then but I can't find proof of those times right now. /neu
What I remember/ know (reciting from memory, will take time to find sources, might have incorrect bits) is that a portion of antishipping has its roots in misogyny and that's got to do with how the proship label came to be as well. Also the antis I see novadays acting like a cult or how some political bigots treat minorities. The gay comparison from the previous reblog reminded me of that. Bigots years ago thought gay and "mentally ill" or "predator" were the same thing and tried to define queer terms to their own accord. It sounds a lot like what antis are doing to us now. Of course I acknowledge that the former incident was much more serious than the latter.
I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.
And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.
(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)
Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)
I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.
Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)
Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.
So, let me get this right:
Being attracted to fictional serial murderers is okay,
Being attracted to fictional terrorists is okay,
Being attracted to fictional monsters is okay,
But being attracted to fictional children is wrong?
Hm, noted.
Five times? Oof. Well, you are patient for rewriting all that.
Now you've made a few points that I could also discuss further but to make it simple I will number them:
1) Kids being in adults spaces and adults making non-kid-friendly content for media made for kids has been a discussion in the proship community too. I remember this from years ago, which was when I first started agreeing with proship beliefs despite hanging in anti spaces. XD Anyways for the first part it's easy to tell, it's the parents' responsibility. For the second one, I think that adults can participate in kid-friendly fandoms but appropriate tagging and not allowing kids into the adult sub-spaces is a must. They can also pick a different name for the NSFW content to tag their works with them and not the main tag, like a certain fandom I know.
2) I've seen a poll on tumblr made that way, I can try to send it to you if you'd like (and if I can find it.)
3) I struggled to find some resources here and there too, but if you accept screenshots of things antis say there are plenty on tumblr that fall in that category. Similar to anti kink stuff, like sorry to bring that up but they're pretty much antishippers but instead of shows they talk about people's fantasies, which are also a piece of fiction. Anyways. I think I found a piece about antis being cult-like if you'd like it?
4) That is an interesting topic, however, I think it has a major US-centricism flaw. If you're planning to make it into a poll or a larger subject in general, please either consider different kinds of fandom and political spaces across the world or let it be known beforehand that it's a matter regarding the USAmerican fandom spaces only. Because it's disheartening to get into a subject you like only to find it doesn't apply to you at all.
An observation is that I (and another blogger that shows up when you search the pro-antiship debate, apparently) think both antiship and proshippers are more left leaning, antishippers are criticized because some points they make resemble right leaning people's a bit too much. Such as the censorship and all.
Which brings me to my last point, which isn't really a criticization, that it'd probably help you to look into labels like profic, anticensorship and all that. The last one being more related to political topics. While most proshippers are also profic and anti censorship, some of them don't like to be involved in debates regarding real life matters because they're here for the ship part. Meanwhile someone whose general stance is anti censorship and freedom of speech might be more interested in it.
I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.
And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.
(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)
Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)
I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.
Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)
Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.
1- To me an anti giving away a false sense of comfort with "I'm against everything that's bad in real life so I only depict acceptable themes in fiction" and then actually depicting a complex and serious subject is worse than a proshipper making a dark fic with messed up themes but also properly tagging it and calling the abuse what it is. Some might disagree but oh well.
2- [The poll with "adjacent" options, though I didn't read many of the notes on the post so I don't really know if there is useful info]
[The only poll that matters, obviously... haha]
[The anti and cult article, though I haven't read all the details]
3- Definitely an interesting bunch, and everyone is welcome even if they just want to lurk. (Funny enough there are non-profic members of the kink community so I guess that happens)
4- Even so, even if you added European voices for example, it'd still be western-heavy. Which is fine unless you're trying to make a general statement about the state of internet in the whole world. Like take Japan for example, besides the politics, the way dark content is viewed is so much different than the western fandoms. I think the way living under a censoring government affects one's views on this topic is very interesting too, though it's not the same thing as your initial subject. Oh also, apparently there is an alt right proshipper population as well?.. It's all complicated and nuanced, and I'll be honest I'm not really interested in politics except for the sociological effects and such.
I hope you as the admin will be okay mentally while running this blog! It can be hard.
And also antis posting on here should probably know what's the actual meaning of proship before doing so. "Proship in my opinion means [something completely different]" there's no "your opinion", it's a word that already exists with an already existing meaning.
(Unless what one says is like "proship in my opinion means ship and let ship or anti harassment" because those *are* included in the definition. But you know they're not acknowledging what it is because being against "no harassment" makes them look like the bad guy, which they pretty much are sometimes.)
Thank you so much for your concern, but please don’t be afraid. I also run a side blog regarding mental health (apologies, I won’t link it as it has more information about myself there and I’d like to keep it separate from my psychology/sociology study.)
I have noticed that antiship people tend to have a “different definition” of proship based on who. Such as the en.stars fan base which considers a 16 and 18 year old to be EXTREMELY problematic and pedophilia. From a someone with a grass healthy relationship, those individuals seem rather grass deficient. The psychology and maturity is hardly different between those ages.
Anyway, I digress, unfortunately in order to understand someone when they speak, we must come to terms with the ways in which other people are defining words. For more information about such a topic, I highly recommend the book “How to Read a Book” by Charles Van Doren and Mortimer J. Adler. (PDF) So while there is a word that exists with a definition, it is like using the words gay, retard, and molest. The words have taken different meanings. Likely, the words people associated with them are: homosexual, a slur describing one of special needs, and improper sexual advances. Originally these words meant happy, to slow, and to disturb. Not only do words change but their perception can as well, such as me calling people homosexual is often met with dislike. Like it or not, this is at the very least something important to consider when making these discussions. (Sorry for the large block on this, I find the subject fascinating!)
Unfortunately, even with my brief interactions, I’ve been finding myself in a rather, perplexing position. I’ve been accused of harassing individuals in a tag and being a drama blog (though apparently being mistaken as not being op makes it better?) while mistakenly being accused of being proship (I state myself rather clearly in my bio.) I’ve sifted through dozens of blogs that were academically impossible to use in a healthy discussion since the tags or blog included threats, suicide baiting, amongst other deplorable words. This topic is interesting, but I’m watching a lot of unhealthy behaviours. I even blocked a fandom callout blog recently for existing in the sense of wanting to harass others. So, it’s interesting, but so hard to find people who are genuinely interested in having a civil conversation from that perspective.
Threaten you say? We might have that in common. (1) (2, scroll down)
I've also been informed that an alt right proship or "proship" section exists and that some are being aggressive towards people who don't like the content they like.
Safe to say we don't reclaim them, proshipping is an anti-harassment stance at it's core.
So, sorry that you dealt with that (though the amount of antis who threat are much higher in my experience). Eh if you really do want to find a proshipper to ask questions to here I am.
Antishippers, I’m a loss right now. How can I involve you guys in this conversation, where you can give your opinions, thoughts, evidence and experiences? When I try to pull you into the conversation, I’m met with silence and probably even ending up on several blocklists. I WANT you to share these things with me. I WANT you to be able to share your thoughts. I will ask questions, sometimes ones you don’t like, because that is how one can learn. I want you in the discussion, yet you guys act worse than adults in politics. At least the adults take the time to insult me more for asking them questions. I know they at least saw what I said. I’m trying to have you involved. If you want to change minds, leaving me with only the proshippers as those willing to talk is actually the worst way to do so. I can give a few DOZEN empirical journals about how this behavior actually makes things worse. Anyway, if you’re an antishipper please take this poll and share it. I’m proship heavy on it right now and I WANT your opinion on the topic.
I was gonna wait for the poll to close to share this, but I think I've gotten enough results on that one to move on. I've chosen to make this into a full-on survey because I don't wanna spam this blog with polls lmfao. I also included the poll question in case anyone who answered wrong the first time can change that. Once again, you don't have to be associated with either side (or even identify as 'neutralship') to take this. This is an open discussion.
Additionally, I encourage yall to reblog so others can answer too!/nf
Once again, please be civil in the reblogs. Also, rude/inflammatory answers on the final question will not be counted.
Please return us to a world where Notp and squick are used for a ship you don’t like instead of just making up a load of bullshit about how immoral it is or w/e lol
We defending rpf pedo and racist fantasy fanfics on ao3 now 🥺🥺👉👈
some things shouldnt get preserved, thats how you end up with ppl getting hurt dude. Your kink is not my kink and ill mind my business until ppl start bringing actual bigotry and irl kids into it
Contrary to popular belief, arguing for the preservation of content deemed 'other' does not mean I don't have my own personal limitations on content I agree with or content I would, privately, prefer to cease existing.
Also—Fanfiction does not actively result in people getting hurt. Never once, in history, has there been a legal case where someone has explicitly stated online fanfiction directly influenced them into raping someone or harming a child.
What we are defending is the right for a space to exist on the internet that is, to some extent, immune to bias-based purging. If you're incapable of actually addressing the broader issue of the damages that content purging and bias-based regulating and censorship causes, then forgive me, but might I suggest you take a step back and do some research and exploring before you speak on the matter.
If you can't see someone talking about how censorship can and has been abused in the past in order to force people to conform to things like corporate and religious beliefs on content rights without immediately laughing at them and going whahh you want pedos to fuck kids, you're not mature enough nor possess enough understanding of the topic to get involved.
Do you know what actually gets people hurt? What actually claims lives, millions of them, every single year?
Poverty. War. Bigotry. Religion. Capitalism. Classism. Inadequate humanitarian efforts. Inadequate support systems and social structures.
If someone is going to hurt another person, they're going to do it no matter the catalyst. If someone is that mentally unwell or in that mindset, not reading Starker smut isn't going to stop them. Something else will eventually trigger that thought and action. I have never, ever read any of the fanfiction that I have over the years and thought afterward hey, lets do that in real life.
And the people who do? They're not mentally sound, and anything has the potential to trigger them into thoughts and actions. Remove fanfiction, and suddenly its the movies triggering them. So you remove the movies. And suddenly its song lyrics. Its historical footage. Its the Bible. Its their dreams.
I encourage you to broaden your understanding of why people campaign for AO3 to retain its current policies, and why even if you don't condone certain content, it is so much safer for everyone involved for it to have a space to exist where you have to actively choose to look for it in order to find it. AO3 offers a huge database of filters that can actively prevent you from seeing something. If AO3 goes, all those writers and their fics with the things you hate are just going to flock back to sites like Wattpad where its a no man's land and you can trip over underage rape fic at any given moment.
Would you rather play russian roulette, or know exactly which guns are loaded?
This is one of the most baffling antis I've ever seen. You're ok with games about killing and murder, and a movie literally about a creepy demon trying to marry an underage teenager, but LOLICON IS TOO FAR?!?! THEY LITERALLY HAVE "DNI IF YOU HARRAS PPL OVER FICTION" AND ARE TELLING PPL HOW THEY CAN USE FICTION??? THEY LIKE KILLERS AND CANIBALS BUT LOLICON IS TOO MUCH??? If they think lolicon normalizes and justifies REAL child abusers, then by their logic they think REAL cannibalism and killing and stalking and kidnapping and snuff are all ok. You can't just cherry pick which abusive material in fiction is ok. Its either all unacceptable or all acceptable. THERE IS NO INBETWEEN. You are either profiction or you're not.
On today's episode of antis 📺
Part 2
So this person doesn't like when people make loli / shotacon art but they can have interest south park and couple other things that would be considered proship plus their content warning took me for a loop some of the things that stood out was the " mention of snuff films " like HUH !? ~ ☆
Not me on the internet seeing yet another person discussing proship v antiship. Could, uh... This is gonna sound real stupid because I've existed within fandoms for a long time. But could someone genuinely explain what the discourse is?
I would assume proship is ship whatever, who cares. And antiship would be against shipping. But it doesn't seem that way?? Because I can't wrap my mind around someone against shipping. And some people are like "proshippers DNI" and some people do the opposite. And that confuses me even more. What do you mean? If people ship stuff you don't want 'em near you? If they don't ship stuff?? It's tumblr, this feels like a relatively small issue but people make it a very big deal and I fear I may just be stupid.
Any help would be nice. I'd love to hear this explained from a neutral party, but folks from both sides will also do. It feels important and I haven't asked, so I feel now might be a good time.
so basically, the proship vs antiship Drama boils down to proshippers saying fiction is fiction, and even if you ship something that would, in real life, be really fucked up, since it's just fiction, it doesn't really matter
whereas antis insist that shipping anything that would be fucked up in real life (minors/adults, incest, etc) then you support that thing in real life and you're a Bad Person (and you should die)
it's honestly not much deeper than that, despite that fact that i could probably go on about it forever. one side says 'fiction is fiction, and as long as you tag properly, do whatever' and the other is sending death threats and accusing people of being pedophiles because they shipped the wrong ship (<- the way antis throw around the word pedophile is infuriating)
(if it was not obvious, i'm firmly against antis, even if i don't consider myself proship)
i do kinda get where antis come from, at least when you just take their arguments in a vacuum, but i've personally seen too much vitriol to ever give an anti the benefit of the doubt. like. people have died because of anti harassment. there's so many horror stories, and it's Not pretty
uh, basically that's it! hope that helped explain it?
Thanks! This helps a lot. I would like to see the other side of the argument as well, just to get the full picture. But as it is, the other side doesn't sound all that pleasant.
I cannot condone threats and stuff, and over something as mundane as fiction characters? I'm honestly gonna try and avoid this whole thing where I can, but I'm terrified that it'll come up again when I can't avoid it.
proshippers go get therapy challenge