Shinichi Sakamoto - Tumblr Posts
For some reason, I love following Innocent’s Russian fandom on Tik Tok.
My Muse
I will RP Subyss from Innocent manga, by Shinichi Sakamoto.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/f9f22ea602cb1cff1eae6afbcd64b953/a4462744c40c3f07-3b/s400x600/500f7b2eabca705235a8a22a33a4dd1d34ccc2f8.png)
Like for a starter.
My Muse
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/f4a09eb014bfa006261c2226ff23b9ef/4af870fd06f2caa8-f3/s400x600/e72d0dbcd47019e82dd2b0d7fbcec5205e2eab2b.png)
Rules: Nothing to extreme, and you’ll be good to go.
My muse is Subyss\Soubise from the Manga Innocent by Shinichi Sakamoto
Personality: Total psycho for hire, mad, sadistic and proud of his ancestral heritage. He views torture as an artform, of which he is very proud of. He seems very much addicted to it, to the point he would get drunk if he can’t torture people. Is also very dumb.
Family: Belongs to the Guillaume dynasty from I could gather...but Soubise is a surname, or it could be at most a code name.
Eye color: (Headcanon) Red
Age: From what I could gather, even though no direct age is given, he seems fully adult, and is probably in his late thirties when we first meet him. In the Memoires, he’s refered to as an old man, and he calls Nicolas-Gabriel “young master”.
For hcs, do you think Subyss would ever bother with aftercare regarding any apprentices, and if so what would that look like?
I mean, we know he has medical after-care knowledge, since Damien is still somehow alive after two months under Subyss' dubious attention.
![For Hcs, Do You Think Subyss Would Ever Bother With Aftercare Regarding Any Apprentices, And If So What](https://64.media.tumblr.com/846c7e0d3e45daf75414b015bfcb55f3/38170d3e07854921-9b/s500x750/6570ca5569a47bafba6c501d6b17a1ffda1d9611.png)
In the French translation, it's called "garder en bonne condition" which means to "keep in good condition", whatever that means in this context.
So yes, he would probably perform aftercare, if only to keep them alive and able-bodied. I have doubts it would go further. Proper after care would include giving them fresh water, perhaps boiled if it's cold or the water isn't clean enough. He would also probably put any dislocation back in place if need be and apply cold compresses on bruises, if he feels particularly generous. But frankly, I don't think that would happen too often. He might also feed them very salty foods or even coffee if his budget would allow it, not to alleviate their pain, because, let's face it, he's a sadist, but to "freshen up the sensation". He would probably also salt any open wound, to clean and increase the pain.
However, if there are no serious injuries, then he won't bother with after-care. From what we can understand, tending to someone he tortured is simply "cleaning up his mess" to him, a chore he hates to do.
Missed opportunity
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/3f878ccd8b8ba555d7ef34043c368265/dfe053f1e8d4a2b1-3e/s250x400/04c9ea1388c8248db7fb1f4edfec115e3644f86c.png)
Yes, the eldest child of Jean-Baptiste...Like, Charles is pretty isolated...Like, they are both of a similar age, with Claude being only a year older. They both share a birth mother, and are thus the only full-blooded sibblings. Plus, the only two expressions she shows us is nervous and haughty. Like, imagine the banter potential with Charles. Plus, given her child-like features, I actually think it would create funny scenes when they walk together in public. This girl is fifteen, she looks ten. Plus, her historical self might have had the most tragic fate out of all Jean-Baptiste’s offspring's. And maybe we could have a strong female character who isn’t a psychopath nor an obnoxious feminist. It’s not like Shinichi Sakamoto cannot wright those, because he could, for example in his manga Masarou.
Since the Inosan-Fans seem to like my post about Madeleine-Claude so much...
suggest you give me your headcanons about her in the comment box bellow.
I will just post what we do know about her historically...You fill in by “rounding up” Sakamoto-sensei’s work.
She was born around 1738. I allow all of you beautiful fans to choose a Zodiac sign for the Innocent verse.
![Since The Inosan-Fans Seem To Like My Post About Madeleine-Claude So Much...](https://64.media.tumblr.com/33c33ee3c6ec59e6e6c09e37121c06f1/1935e0135a4ce18d-5b/s500x750/0675057b5435310a5e3cfe17b3ffbf07e5e3ee64.png)
![Since The Inosan-Fans Seem To Like My Post About Madeleine-Claude So Much...](https://64.media.tumblr.com/0f1723b0412c0c4f8233ca9e3a65f4ef/1935e0135a4ce18d-0d/s250x400/dd3faaad7394bd13ac3a13af57e448325d829b43.png)
It would make her 15 years old in 1753.
The next year, she was married to Pierre Hérisson. Given the fact he was ten years older than her (”Dictionnaire historique et anecdotique des bourreaux”) and lived in a separate city, I doubt the it was consensual on her part.
For some reason, we see her back again at the end of the second volume, in 1757.
![Since The Inosan-Fans Seem To Like My Post About Madeleine-Claude So Much...](https://64.media.tumblr.com/51becf24a5bc84b669d2596ecefe95e4/1935e0135a4ce18d-91/s250x400/0f9051ca4a86727211443cd2724beac3e111cffa.png)
![Since The Inosan-Fans Seem To Like My Post About Madeleine-Claude So Much...](https://64.media.tumblr.com/5b33e50bf94a66e3918dc234f2adf645/1935e0135a4ce18d-d2/s250x400/068a8c952d165118883fcabd692898ea44ed849f.png)
Please, send me your thoughts and headcanons for the Innocent manga verse.
We also know she probably died in her early fourties. Her legacy was one daughter, who married her own uncle.
Rigor Mortis
A short fanfiction about Innocent manga.
The surface behind him was soft. The pain in his legs was still nauseating and even the pressure of the soft blanket was beyond uncomfortable. Twisting in his bed, trying to find a position that wasn’t painful, he only slept lightly. Between the cold of the room or the pressure on his calves, he had to constantly choose. Slowly, he opened his eyes...Still disoriented, he recognized his own room. As he uncovered his senses, a strong smell of vinigar, salt and hazel tea hit his nose. Charles tried to raise his torso in an upright position but had to lay right back down. It hurt so much. Oddly enough, now he felt a new kind of pain in his back, right were the kidneys are. He winced.
“You are safe and sound now, Charles. It’s all done now.” said a soft, feminine voice. He turned his head, right to his older sister. She had that worried look on her face she usually had. It was just unusual to hear her talk. She never did so in the presence of their grandmother.
“Oh, you’ll need to clean yourself today. You slept here for almost 12 hours now.”she continued, bringing him a little cup of the hazel tea. It was warm and invigorating.
“Thank you.” he murmured.
He drank his tea slowly. He started to feel almost relaxed for the first time since last night. His legs still hurt, but he felt a certain improvement in the circulation...Not that it felt exactly good at the moment.
He took his cup down on the bed side table to painfully turn around, so that his legs would hang out of his bed. It hurt so bad!
Catching his breath, he asked: “Claude, can you please pass me the cup
-Well, yes.”
There were tears in their eyes. His because of sheer pain and her...After he finished drinking, she helped him put his cup to hid bedside table and...She hugged him tight.
“Please, don’t defy father or grandmother again. I really hate to see you hurt!” she said, chocking on tears.
He didn’t knew how to react. On one hand, receiving such affection was nice, on the other, he simply could not agree with neither of them. They were both archaic and cruel.
Charles finally recoiled. “Thank you...Please, I need to rest.” It was half-truth, half-lie so she would leave him alone.
She did leave. “Also, don’t forget to bandage yourself. Please, ask for help if you need to. I know father’s corrections are no jokes.” she said before leaving.
Oh you think Charles would be a sexual abuser? That's intresting!
Okay...This issue would be complicated.
I think that Charles when we meet him all grown up would be uninterested in rape by the use of physical force or threats, since he tries to distance himself from the image of a brute. Also, just as his historical counterpart, Shinichi Sakamoto's Sanson is a clear rebel to the idea of endogamy, so I think sexual abuse of family members or employees would also not get his interest. Patient sexual abuse, we have no hints towards this. Brutalizing prostitutes he would sleep with would also probably not be that attractive to him, since it would directly go against the highly idealized vision of his profession he had come to believe. It would go against his self-image of "benevolent lord of the outcasts." That said, I do think he would probably not be against some rough sex if it is consensual, on some level.
However, playboy!Charles is perfectly fine about obtaining sexual favors through lies. In that vein, he's portrayed as fairly similar to his historical counterpart. If you agree to make this content adult only, than I could show you panels of the manga of why this is the case. The second circonstance in which he would be interested in raping someone would be in an attempt to spare them judicial torture. And it would only work if the victim is a woman...So, I don’t think Charles would be interested in raping someone of his own sex, because part of the reason he would do that is to get the victim pregnant.
What do you think Charles would call himself while punishing Gabriel?
Also- do you think Henri would have been punished often after that one incident when he was a kid?
Also, I can see Charles using plain old whippings or spankings as punishments
First question: My answer is "Papa". Simply put, I believe Charles would try and "coo" Gabriel into obeying him. He's the type to use psychological manipulation as opposed to brute force to immobilize someone. Again, this is why I don't think Shinichi Sakamoto's Charles-Henri to be a copy of his father...They have a few key differences in personality, one of them that Charles uses cunning as a modus operands. This is a personality trait that shows to be pretty consistant in his character.
We do not see Charles being so extreme after this incident. This "peek" of abuse might have simply resulted in the two kind of calming down. Of course, Charles would use scolding on a medium to regular basis, but I just don't think he would go to corporal punishment extremes quite often.
About the last point, completely agree. It was a common punishment method at the time, and I just can't see Charles being using the boot on a regular basis. I imagine he would use birch rods for it, as was common at this time, with the occasional martinet. It would fully suit his weird cosplay of social integration.
Is that what I think it is?
![Is That What I Think It Is?](https://64.media.tumblr.com/d40baa3a0ebdd8bbc1a12bc81bb3938e/b4a706bb311e1c1b-88/s500x750/de82b7d0556018115e181f51ba5253f472e9493d.png)
Subyss displays someone’s chastity belt. It’s canon. The only question left is how Subyss acquired this. Did he just purchasted it for himself to put on display or did he “borrow” it from a woman...
Although, it does have plenty of dark comedy potential if it is the second option.
Innocent manga’s torture instruments
In chronological order:
The chair chair to tie up people:
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/17baa5b1ca61ad650baf615fdfeb95ae/ef1faabdf0c79440-80/s500x750/db34668736a010c396a7fa564f41d09fa0280c90.png)
I love the attention to detail. One thing that is noticeable immediately is the chair has things to restrain the torso, the knees and the legs. The background of the pannel is a lovely detail, showing this place was not originally built to be a torture chamber. If it would, it would have architectural elements to accommodate a strappado, which the room here clearly does not. On the other pannels, it is shown to be quite close to the wall, but not on the wall and it is not nailed to the ground. The room is also equipped with what seems to be a chamber pot. The proportions also make it pervertible as a spanking chair for OTK. It’s functional. Only worry would be if the victim can probably thrash hard enough to tip the chair, since it isn’t affixed to the ground. However, with the amount of brainwashing they do, it would probably counter this issue.
Next...
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/bcb128bc1ae5c2e49c3ed1f60058e908/ef1faabdf0c79440-91/s1280x1920/956e75a68b8b4ee22b7337c098acc7bf4de8db52.png)
I think this is a strappado, although because probably the sealing isn’t high enough to use it to full effect, it has been repurposed as an immobilizing device.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/b240cc1cb2a1efe10946cf3f7aafa695/ef1faabdf0c79440-65/s500x750/23ec634f356a24253811007c7c37596a73108141.png)
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/4ad8958604cea16c84f2b2b0336f5771/ef1faabdf0c79440-a4/s500x750/7be299053d199fb4ed519987a9ab6c600faaa847.png)
The branding irons here are perfect.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/1f7fdca8d8ccacf4e743175d8c5f8b9a/ef1faabdf0c79440-64/s400x600/d2005478c1190e68cb0d6c6e60942c150c5be07b.png)
We have another spiked collar, I think Subyss just wants to show his collection at this point, what looks like ferulas, an axe, a rapier and I think this is a sword of justice. We also have a rectangular metal spoon. Some bizarre bird cage is here on top. Okay, I think Subyss might deal with juvenile delinquants from time to time and cannot be bothered with taking them off the wall I guess. However, WTF the magistrates would store their self-defense weapons in the torture chamber, that would remain a mystery.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/042794ca7671d4078a6237dbc97b7c93/ef1faabdf0c79440-11/s500x750/cf358058f0785a9172127ee262c810444a41e0b3.png)
Damien’s restrain bed is perfect to historical depictions and functional.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/180d449922b6697a72ef02cc22d938d0/ef1faabdf0c79440-2f/s500x750/f3fcc2f6a5b7ee1615552cedccd65d99b7a1e30e.png)
We have here a chastity belt, a knee breaker, I think a bridal scold and a hammer. As well as WTF items that are decorative and meant to scare the prisonnier, although here I doubt they are for that as Damien probably saw them a billion times already.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/acdd0bcf021a9f9a88916b5445df2cff/ef1faabdf0c79440-57/s500x750/85f48e93b1f2f76ebd5810a4e9e2de063adfd235.png)
I think these are thumbscrews, manacles and spiked collars. They look...Barely visible.
![image](https://64.media.tumblr.com/3dd407cd8dbd714c8e2e0e5c42dfde8c/ef1faabdf0c79440-63/s400x600/368f935f35e95597db622a68dd4d5ec6fbd9cbfb.png)
Witch pricker. Perfectly simple and functional.
The thing Innocent manga got right
You heard me talk extensively about the plot wholes and the bizarre word choice of the author that makes me think ask myself: "How much did the translators of the source material had to drink?" But I would talk about one positive aspect of the manga that many people who are huge fans of the series didn't notice.
The guys have erections from getting tortured, and they are not shamed from it. There is anecdotal evidence that some men and boys who experienced trauma and abuse would get erections during those phases. Now, many of us have learned since that yes, female rape victims do have orgasms, that doesn't make it okay. But with guys, with how usuriously their abuse is taken, rarely get that same level of comfort from general public opinion, and often times media mock those reactions.
But here, we have the guys experiencing the consequences of the testosterone surges caused by the extreme situation they are in, and the narrative does not shame either Charles-Henri nor Damien for their bodily reaction. It doesn't make them masochists nor perverts.
Gentlemen, if you experience symptoms similar to sexual pleasure because of the abuse you experience, this does not make you a pervert and it says nothing about the content of your character.
A huge thank you for Shinichi Sakamoto to say this message and to anyone who helped translate Innocent.
A little meta/rant about Charles ahead, related to probably one of the more uncomfortable scenes in Innocent.
The one, where Anne-Marthe gives him a massage on the night before Damiens’ execution. Oh boy is this scene unsettling. I’m not going to even comment on the fact, that a grown ass woman is staring at the naked body of a teenager, with some focus on his butt, and making comments on how well trained he is. While this is creepy to me, I doubt the scene is meant to be taken sexually (even if it easily could be, I have a friend who truly freaked out during that scene, because she was afraid something sexual could come any second). I believe Anne-Marthe is objectifying him there though - she views him as the result of her parenting, as a product. Charles is well-built, because she has forced him to train. In a way, he is treated a bit like cattle there - the way a person would stare at a cow to check if it’s well-fed.
What I find truly unsettling is Charles’ reactions to the whole thing. Up to this point, the manga is told solely from his perspective, so the reader knows he is scared. She is the person, who has “taught his body pain” like Marie says, and his body has known nothing else but pain until then. He is conditioned to not disobey her, to a point she has become the “moral compass” he resorts to whenever he feels lost, even as an old man of 50+ years. He is conditioned to believe he has done something wrong, so when she tells him to undress and lie down on the bed, he doesn’t even question it. You see that he is frightened, but he doesn’t even ask why. He is hesitant, because he fears the punishment, but he doesn’t put up a fight, he simply looks at her with fear.
![A Little Meta/rant About Charles Ahead, Related To Probably One Of The More Uncomfortable Scenes In Innocent.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7a1b93ca556b63010c00033bcc8f829d/4ff91c5d3af58402-76/s250x400/e138c89a850da7f13d68efb7636605e78572b68c.png)
And I would like to point out he isn’t a child. He is a young man of 18 years in that scene, who would let her do as she pleases with him, because he has been taught, that he deserves whatever is to come. And what is worse, the very last straw in this scene, which makes is to unsettling to me, is that he is naked, because it makes him so much more vulnerable, than he would be if he had clothes on. And I don’t mean vulnerable only to physical pain. He is defenceless, bared. It’s so uncomfortable, I think Sakamoto Shinichi deserves a praise for conveying so much in 1-2 pages.
I’m really careful when I use this word, because I don’t want to water down its meaning, but Charles is a person, who has been abused almost beyond repair. I don’t think he has an identity at all. He has beliefs, but he doesn’t know who he is to have the confidence to defend them to the very end, because he has been taught that he is wrong by default. And yes, I believe it makes perfect sense, that he’d eventually copy his father and become him the very moment he finds the littlest thing they have in common, but this could be a meta on its own and I might write it some day (if I’m not too lazy to).
Charles never became Jean-Baptiste 2.0
It’s more complicated
Yes...You read it correctly. Charles didn't instantly became like his father after having sex, and in fact, he never did, and no, this isn't a product of classic toxic masculinity.
So...Character backstory, from what we see
We know that he grew up to be a very empathetic child. He also spent an unspecified amount of time (probably a few months or even years) faking his identity in a boarding school out of all places. Plus, given the educational methods of the time, he would have been highly encourage to re-sensitize himself to shame and basically...embrace his social needs or collect a beating. At least it's what I could get from sources on education from this time period. Also, showing desire for social integration is a basic human instinct, and so, I don't think he'll even need the threat of corporal punishment to motivate him into it, but would also contribute to further weaken his sense of self by allowing him to forget his identity. https://www.google.ca/books/edition/L_universit%C3%A9_de_Paris_et_les_j%C3%A9suites/5ADQAAAAMAAJ?hl=fr&gbpv=1&dq=ch%C3%A2timents+corporels+chez+les+j%C3%A9suites&pg=PA158&printsec=frontcover
After his expulsion, Charles-Henri was given a privet tutor: Grisel, who became one of the closest person of his life...And he lost him at age 14.
So, the Charles we meet in volume one already has lived through a lot of grief, and has a sense of self already very fragile, from the constantly switching system of values he would have to adapt to for anything from 2 to 4 years, at the formative age of early adolescence.
Now, let us take a look at Innocent, volume per volume 1-2, of how Charles felt into this.
Vol 1 of Innocent:
Oh, here we have in the first pages father and son walking to get a letter of recommendation. On the way, the people walk away from them, pass waters to "purify" the street after their passage. The reason for this "pleasant little walk" is so Jean-Baptiste could ask for a letter of recommendation for a school in Toulouse.
(Side note, this is either a mistake, as in Sakamoto-sensei not knowing the situation of executioners was different in Southern France than in Northern France, or it's absolutely brilliant characterization if intentional, but the choice of city seems to be a mistake, because non of the characters seem particularly nervous at the idea of going there)
Anyway, so the Prévot des Marchands gives said recommandation letter to Jean-Baptiste, but instead of giving it to him in hand, he drops it on the floor for him to pick it up. Jean-Baptiste absolutely does not respond to this attempt at humiliation, and scolds his son for not thanking the Prévot properly, and not keeping his posture strait.
This could hint at a father-son conflict, and Jean-Baptiste, given the context mentioned above, has reasons to believe Charles is putting up a manipulative act, if he knows about the Jesuit education methods, but he would surely know how "norm" of the time felt entitled to treat people who where considered shameless. Since, at this point, Jean-Baptiste still doesn't plan to train Charles as an executioner, it is probably the main thing creating tension. It's probably a situation of "One, no, I will not go softer on you just because you act all sheepish, two bowing your head in humiliation is beneath you, man up and three, I am not so unreasonable as to whip you for not bowing your head and blushing on command."
But, from Charles' perspective, he is humiliated and just, emotionally exhausted. Plus, from his point of view, his father's scolding doesn't make logical sense, since why is he reproaching him for acting like a socially integrated person if he's about to send him to an establishment for socially integrated people.
Once they are at home, the rest of the family joins in on the entire thing, and Anne-Marthe and Jeanne show themselves to be a lot more coherent and reasonable, not necessarily ethical, but sensible, and reason that since Charles doesn't want to go to school anymore, because of the non-stop heartbreak it lead, he should contribute to the family by becoming his father's apprentice. Charles, who's strongly opposed to killing people, throws a temper tantrum at this (and is probably already frustrated by the humiliation of being shooed out of the streets and his father's contradictory directives) and burns the table cloth.
As a response of his refusal and temper tantrum, Jean-Baptiste tortures his son. However, the frame leading up to the torture scene is quite...stricking. Jean-Baptiste strait up commands Charles to go into the room. There's no lying, there's no tricking, no asking, it's sheer intimidating posture. Oddly enough, even if his gesture is commanding, it is not necessarily rude, he uses his hand to indicate where he expects Charles to go instead of his finger, almost as if inviting him to the torture chamber. This is a behavior that Charles will copy, refraining from using "rude" gestures and languages, even when torturing someone. This is a limit that both Jean-Baptiste and Charles-Henri respect, and it's a rather weird one if you think about it.
Also, in the lion episode thing, we are given more hints, that even if Charles wasn't rebelling against his father and did his best to obey him...It just won't work. Jean-Baptiste, on top of contradictory orders whenever something doesn't concern the function of executioner, is either unable or unwilling to keep tabs of his eldest son's skill set, which if one looks at it logically, talking himself out of beheading the lion was probably the smartest move on Charles' part.
Vol 2 of Innocent:
So, the volume 2 starts with the continuation of Jean de Chartois' clumsy decapitation. Now, we get a flashback here of Charles getting punished for saving the frogs from dissection. Little!Charles actually squirms at the punishment, trying to get away, showing he probably still had functioning instincts. So again, we have someone who once had normal fight or flight instincts and some sense of self, but it was slowly but surely stripped away from him.
After snapping and completely butchering his friend, Charles snaps back into reality. Here, we see that he's still somewhat self-righteous, and that his complete denying of self is something he only does in front of family members. He was able at 14 to convincingly prove many aristocrats, many of them seem older than his father, and pull it off quite well. He screams his innocence now.
Now, when the crowd actually throws stones, he freezes. This probably isn't the first time he is confronted to an agressive crowd wanting to harm him, so this freezing seem to be caused by the fact he was in a frantic state of mind, and just barely starting to notice his surroundings again. When a couple of people had layed him down for a beating, he's so guilt-ridden and confused that he doesn't even try to defend himself before his father steps in, takes responsibility for the happenings, and Anne-Marthe makes sure this botched execution isn't recorded by bribing someone.
When Jean-Baptiste orders around the clean-up proceedings, Charles-Henri tries meekly to grab his attention. He's nervous, but he isn't as scared of him as expected. Also, here is another proof that Charles-Henri is already brainwashed and crazy. Any normal person would be terrified of a person who not so long ago nearly tortured them to death, and the reaction of most people wouldn't be to timidly ask for their attention. And this isn't even a gesture of defiance.
Now, at this point of the plot, Charles is both suicidal, self-loathing, and already long-brainwashed.
In the dissection scene, Jean-Baptiste, after his stroke, has temporarily regained his strength, at least partially, and now officiated at two executions (at least it's heavily implied), and asks Charles to restart his training. Here, in this phase, Jean-Baptiste is present.
Here, Anne-Marthe's comment about Charles-Henri reaction to the smell seems to imply this isn't the first time. Here, Jean-Baptiste doesn't really react. His frustrated, but keeps it to himself. This, and the introduction scene, does seem to imply Jean-Baptiste isn't that punitive, he's still strict, but most of the time, when his children behave in a way that displeases him, he verbally tells them off, or lets it slide. The boot scene, even if from Charles' reaction, it wasn't the first time it was used, is only done for "big stuff". Like burning the table cloth and refusing to take the family business.
Volume 2 really hammers home how brainwashed out of his instincts Charles is at 14, since he decides it's a good idea to tell his father, who tortured him to get him to take on the family mantle, that he would like to become a monk. Also, his turn over into accepting to become an executioner after wards, is that as much as Charles-Henri resents his father, he still cares for his approval, and that his desire for acceptance is still firmly rooted into him. Because, if he didn't care, Charles could easily say: "well, if you think I'm such a failure, does this mean I am free to leave ?"
But he doesn't. Charles-Henri seem to be unwilling to give up his social self in any way, shape or form. He keeps his empathy, no matter how much mental anguish it causes him, and despite it being easier and less painful to harden himself into denying his needs for love and acceptance, he still doesn't do it, even though it's painful. Also, this doesn't show weakness to me, but a strong will. He was able, at a very young age to lie about his identity in a boarding school of all places, was able to stay academically curious and somewhat successful, was willing to undergo torture to not become executioner (he eventually gave in, but he still was willing to under up to seven wedges for a duration of what is implied to be at least 6 hours) and clung to his empathy and desire for love and acceptance despite all the grief, self-loathing, guilt humiliation and anguish it causes him. He's brainwashed and weathered, but he still clings on.
So, I will skip the later part of volume 2, because he mostly takes in confidence, and we have the scene I already discussed previously. Also, here, we learn that Charles is more than capable of self-reflection, and changing his perspective.
Vol 3 of Innocent
Here, Charles finally shows a level of courage we didn't see in him previously. He talks back to his grandmother, despite fearing her. This is also the volume in which Jean-Baptiste's true self shows, or at least part of it. Despite his weakened state, he chooses to try what he can to save a child he didn't agree to have in his house, and allows him to stay until his wound heal (which would have coincided with learning that Damien stabbed the king, given the extent of the damage, and bone scarifies rather slowly. Also, his torturer is Subyss, the least discreet person in the world) Which isn't that extraordinary, but it shows Jean-Baptiste is capable of basic human decency. Also, Jean-Baptiste strait up snaps and regresses to a child-like state upon learning about Damien's écartèlement. In truth, Jean-Baptiste and Charles-Henri are both horrified by torture and violence.
Also, we learn here exactly why the family was able to maintain their position despite their rivals: one, Anne-Marthe is very good at getting rid of them, and two, the current geographically closest potential rival is a complete idiot. But this isn't about how dumb Subyss is. So, in that scene with Subyss, he stays quite physically close to that man, who just threatened to pierce his vocal cord.
After this show of horror, Charles, once out of the torture chamber, can barely walk he's so shocked. His uncle warned him...However, it does show that Charles-Henri has a strict sense of honor, willing to visit a condemned at the expense of his own sanity.
There is also the massage scene, in which Charles' mental damage and brainwashing is further empathized. But here is some good meta on it: https://www.tumblr.com/feuerblut-a/189879782995/a-little-metarant-about-charles-ahead-related-to
At this point in the story, Charles-Henri is mentally strong enough not only to stand up for himself, but also complete the execution Nicolas-Gabriel was unable to.
Vol 4 of Innocent
Not too much change from volume 3 in terms of Charles' mental state, exept for one thing: Charles is deeply traumatized by the event. Despite this, he's still able to cling to something positive: the crowd didn't resort to cannibalism unlike the last time, and this is proof that the world is improving.
Also, so far, the similarities between Jean-Baptiste's and Charles-Henry's personalities were quite positive. Both are hopeful (Jean-Baptiste deciding to carry on the amputation, and Charles-Henri seeing an improvement in society despite the horror of the quartering), capable of empathy and somewhat sensitive.
Also, Charles does show up the courage to finally stand up to Anne-Marthe to defend his younger sister. Which, frankly, is admirable.
However, he is still caught in grief, trauma and his ability to trust had just been used in a horrific way.
Vol 5 of Innocent
Here, we fully see the mental scars left by the écartèlement in which he participated. The trauma seemed to have negatively impacted some of his cognitive skills, namely critical thinking.
He entrusts Griffith to be alone with Marie-Josèphe, and the reason he trusts this man is because his father spoke highly of him. Which wouldn't be a problem, if, and it's a big if, his father was a somewhat normal person. But this is the man who trusts Anne-Marthe as a middle-aged man. I know this woman is his mother, but that kind of naïve trust in a person who he knows is an intrigant, is somewhat misplaced, to say the least. Also, this was the man willing to send you in a city where you'll be lynched for your supposed education (unless it's a writing mistake), Charles ! So, no, this is not a good idea.
Now, to further point out how much his cognitive abilities had been lowered, there's this scene of critical thinking and self-esteem is so crushed, that when he sees Jeanne Bécu, naked in front of him, he thinks she's a vision Père Grisel is sending him from Heaven. Any reasonable person would have asked her to leave, but not Charles.
So, in this sex scene, we have a very traumatized, brainwashed young man, who's mind has already started to deteriorate, who experiences an extreme of acceptance and pleasure all at once. For the first time in a long while, he's not only accepted but desired, and on top of that, it's his first time having sex. So of course, it's going to alter his mind.
For Charles, the overwhelming pleasure is double. Both the fantasy of having a woman desire him so much she strait up comes to his house and begs him to f-ck her, he who is so used to rejection, and with that comes the physiological pleasure associated with the sexual act. On top of that, learning that his father had basic human empathy (he treats it as new information, but, somehow, given the events of vol. 3 of which he partook, he probably might have forgotten some information), which also deeply changes his worldview. He learns that he can be masculine and stoic, and still keep his soft heart.
Vol. 6 of Innocent
So, here, Charles is no longer the meek lamb. After tasting the highest pleasure he ever experienced or could conceive of, he wants more, and so he takes it. Seven times in a row. One can be surprised at his sexual stamina, but he is experiencing something new, pleasant and addictive. The last volume ended with his thoughts put that he now is addicted to this pleasure.
To be accepted and desired in this way gave Charles a new confidence, and he now pursues in mind a new goal: become a competent executioner so that his requests can be taken seriously. Which is quite the sensible idea, especially since now, his chastity vow plan has failed.
However, when Marie enters, he tells her off for letting her resentment take over, which to be fair is a good point, and that she is too young to be an executioner, which again, good point, but the arguments he uses are those of his father. He now tries to imitate this man's verbal mannerisms in order to seem more "strong" and "manly". Charles talks about the family honor and how it's important to preserve it, something his younger self didn't care about at all. Marie-Josèphe tells him off, saying she sold her body to get it, and thus isn't willing to step back, but Charles has enough firmness to say he didn't ask for her opinion.
I would say here, that this is actually quite consistant with the Charles we met in Innocent vol. 2, where he is shown to be able to put himself into question and change his views. He seems to realize that maybe allowing his 11 year old little sister to be an executioner isn't a wise idea.
Executioners of the XVIII century had a series of moral requirements to meet, and Marie does not fit any of them. She's rude, impulsive and rebellious, which are actually not personality trait you would want to see in an executioner. Her sadism also make her a wild card, and quite unpredictable, and more willing to deliberately butcher executions on purpose. The executioner was a civil servant, in a sense.
However, Marie-Josèphe is able to notice, because it's about as subtle as a multicolored hammer doing poll-dancing with a chicken, that Charles-Henri does try to imitate his father's mannerism, and accuses him of becoming like him.
Those are the words that make Charles quite violantly angry, and he slaps her. A fist-fight ensues, and at the end of it...we see how ruthless this new Charles-Henri has become. He orders André to lock Marie in the torture chamber until the proceedings are done.
So, Marie gets out thanks to André, they both make it to the condemned cell, and Charles tries to convince La Tour to kneel, and that he recognizes that the execution is meant to fail. He had learned from previous experiences, how to talk himself out of impossible situation can be a reasonable course of actions, and the knows that the execution was meant to fail.
He tries to convince Marie of this, and that she shouldn't play into it. He under estimates her, but frankly, his expectations are reasonable. He knows that Marie is skilled, but she's only eleven, and shows genuine concerned for her safety.
When he learns she manipulated La Tour to make sure the execution goes smoothly, he seems revolted at the idea, which again, seem to show he still has his former values.
Later on, we discover a Charles enjoying hunting, he who previous was squeamish at the idea of eating meat. So, again, some change.
We see Charles taking an interest in women...And we here get a huge difference between Jean-Baptiste and transformed Charles-Henri. Jean-Baptiste is NOT a womanizer, and yes, the man does seem to have a high libido, he's not interested multiple relationships. What we know historically of Madeleine Tronson was that she was the daughter of Jean-Baptiste's tutor (curator, in the legal sense, not like a private tutor), whom he probably met as a young boy. Also, in the manga at least, his relationship with Jeanne Berger seems to imply an arranged marriage.
Charles meets Marie-Anne Jugier as an adult, and she isn't a woman of his cast. Shinichi Sakamoto's Charles-Henri Sanson is just as averse to endogamy as his historical self.
Do you have any headcanons about Innocent characters of your choice in a relationship?
Jean-Baptiste:
Would seldom understand, even on a pure cognitive level, the concept of romance and courtship. That doesn't mean he cannot fall in love or experience sexual attraction, just, that he's from a subculture that doesn't really do that and never had the time nor interest to read about it beyond "that thing that gets people to do dumb stuff"Because of his rigidity, I think he's a very loyal spouse. Not necessarely out of love, but because adultary is morally wrong. I think he only loved, romantically, one woman, and that woman was Madeleine Tronson. He never needed to court her, because they were very close friends with an almost fraternal bond even before anything sexual was involved. With Jeanne Berger, he does care about her on some level, appreciates her care and affection and is attached to her, but...I would seldom consider it anything romantic, or even count as love. I think it was probably an arranged marriage with someone who's both young enough to be adaptable and not have children from a previous relationship and thus complicate successions and be moldable to his needs, and with the skillset of someone from a poorer executioner family.
In terms of parent-child relationship, with Anne-Marthe, he is still emotionally quite dependant on her, and, if intriguing is needed, would need her to help him, a lot. That doesn't mean he's dumb or incapable of dealing with rivals himself, but, intrigues are not his strong suit. The subtle art of reputation destruction and doing small gestures to tip everything down. He can fight, he can play mindgames to some extend, but not this. Most men are like that, and while some can be violent and emotionally manipulative, lack the skillset for relational agression. Jean-Baptiste is the most loyal son one could hope for, and honestly, to anyone who has children, I would hope they'd be as loyal as Jean-Baptiste, only more emotionally independant. With her, he allows himself a level of trust and emotional vulnerability like he never does with anyone. Coming from an old dynasty, this marriage to Jean-Baptiste symbolizes his full intergration to his cast.
With his children, Jean-Baptiste is strict and emotionally distant, but doesn't seem to have issues with rewarding what he perceives to be desirable behavior with some praise and headpats. He's more liberal with punishment than reward, and would only show sincere affection beyond "good boy" headpats when they are unaware of it, like dizzy, tortured silly, maybe dead. If they have a medical issue or questions about the world, he's very dependable, even if intimidating. He can cry in front of them, but that's only if he's at breaking point. Jean-Baptiste is in his own way, a very loving father, and a highly empathetic one, but, he crushes his own fluffier fealings, and rarely shows it, unless he's at breaking point. Also, being mentally unstable, a hardened pariah and executioner he would interprate a desire for good reputation and social intergration beyond that of executioner in training, he would interprate it, emotionally, as betrayal and slowly becoming a stranger. Even when he knows it's necessary, he still hates it.
With friendships, because of his lack of experience with it, Jean-Baptiste can be guillible.
Marie-Anne Jugier:
Oh, this woman, despite being over thirdy when she married, and seeing several people experience great hardship, and managing a household quite well, is surprisingly naïve with relationships outside of blood relations. Never having experienced neither friendship nor romantic love before meeting Charles, she had that innocence to her that is very unusual in an adult woman.
I have a type
![I Have A Type](https://64.media.tumblr.com/e011c8cfac755184ad71ea40d2183237/34ff071470e8ccb1-26/s400x600/40de355fb36df13b47b062e0ea7b1f9e752d9ce0.png)
![I Have A Type](https://64.media.tumblr.com/57e88e81b8af25d0aacb5f5d35071565/34ff071470e8ccb1-dc/s500x750/e19504a2f3f0878dee88705dd6df301fdbb9dece.png)
![I Have A Type](https://64.media.tumblr.com/790f3e17fa3b0376709e31995582e21e/34ff071470e8ccb1-13/s500x750/51ba290a2882a7aad078b94a37b68141b893b8db.png)
![I Have A Type](https://64.media.tumblr.com/5cddd0aae1cc369c1332751f6a4ae1d1/34ff071470e8ccb1-95/s640x960/2d413b965cc0bf5e9c2475088d5f07a8be326fa0.png)