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help me come up with a novel way of saying "i'd forgive ward everything if vic and ashley fucked"

Me: "I'm disassociating to pass the time."

Victoria Dallon without missing a beat: "Thinker 1- no, two."

Oooh I like these, so I'll chime in, but the short version is: No.

But the long version is: No, because.

1) In the case of second trigger causing a cluster, we need to understand how clusters are forming in the first place, how second triggers function, and then why for both of these things. Why is the shard clustering or going through a second trigger?

For the latter it's simple since we only have one example in canon, Brian, and in his case it was because his power wasn't solving his monkey's paw. This isn't the same thing as his power being useless or powerless in the situation, I'm sure plenty of brutes have been eaten by the Siberian and their power has been useless to save them. The crux actually is that he's being thrust into the same mindset as he was in his first trigger. Trump aspects are being added, because this time the threats are parahumans, and his little-sister stand in is about to have a fate worse than death inflicted onto her.

There's also a completely new paradigm to his trigger dilemma; he needs strength, any kind of strength, from any kind of source. His own isn't enough, it's never been enough. Nothing he has or has learnt can keep Taylor safe from all the shit she's been throwing herself into. Before it was fine if he had a way to hide Aisha from malicious intent, hide himself from violence, but now he needs something that can adapt to any kind of power that might harm himself or Aisha or Taylor or the other Undersiders. So if he can't rely on his own strength, he'll borrow others. Stranger/Trump shift, losing a bit of Shaker because its no longer a dangerous environment (just bad situations they keep falling into) but a dangerous group of parahumans he's defending himself from. His monkey paw has shifted and his trauma has taken on a new aspect. This is why he moves on from Taylor, who rejected his leadership and took it out from under him whilst he was suddenly granted power over other parahumans, and also moved on from her romantically, going for the anti-Taylor, a big breasted professional thief who prefers low stakes.

Now we've explained why and how second triggers form, lets look at Clusters.

Why do Clusters form? It's not because the Shards are all triggering at the exact same time and getting 'tangled' in each-other. It's because they're actively choosing to collaborate with each-other. It's not a simple thing to orchestrate and it involves an intense amount of cooperation, something some shards don't quite like at all (see Grasping Self in Ward). It's not an automatic thing either, I bet plenty of people were triggering in Japan when Kyushu sank, but Lung didn't cluster with any of them. Shards can trigger without clustering.

It also doesn't take too much of a leap to suggest that adding new shards to the cluster, which is usually already 3-4 members, wouldn't be something the other shards would accept. Firstly, all 3-4 original members would have their powers readjusted or weakened once again to spread to the new member, and the new member's shard would also have to weaken it's host and grant powers to the cluster. For a shard that has already invested a lot into it's host, enough to second-trigger in the first place, rather than just let the host die and move on to a new one, this is a pretty tall order.

However, a newly formed cluster trying to involve an already established shard/host might be possible. There's nothing in the canon to suggest it's possible though. Nothing to suggest it's impossible either.

2) We have no evidence of clusters ever having second triggers, and there's not a lot of sense that they would. In the first place, cluster triggers are already a heavily involved process, reproducing a clustermate's trauma to a sufficient level to cause a second trigger is a tall order. Consider also that they're not like our second trigger example, that they have a single power that needs tweaking to suit new circumstances, they instead have multiple minor powers that would all have to fail in order to call for tweaking.

But then that runs into the main conceit for some clusters; sometimes clustermates must die for interesting data to be gathered. Sometimes, it's a highlander style fight to the finish, sometimes it's trading tokens for power boosts, which practically suit your question. I'm sure plenty of writers have introduced concepts like clustermates eating each-other to imbibe their DNA and therefore their powers, strengthening their own, until there is only one survivor with 4-5 major versions of their powers.

It's therefore a little counter intuitive to change the powers of a clustermate when they've reached a fail state in the experiment and will probably die soon anyways. To answer your question, if their powers were to change, I think it'd be their main power only, if their shard even bothered to do something about it.

3) Okie, so clones and twins. We've seen that clones' powers can be identical and can also be tweaked to cause different effects. See S9k and Echidna clones respectively. We've seen that twins can have either extremely similar powers or radically different powers. Fenja and Menja in the former, Tristan and Byron in the latter. Why did Capricorn go case 70 where Fenja and Menja didn't? I suspect it has something to do with their triggers.

I think Fenja and Menja had the same trigger trauma, but that meant that the shard could distinguish between them, because they were both generating data. I haven't read a lot of Ward, but I think because Tristan and Byron's trigger trauma was different, the shard was getting fed conflicting data from the same genetic match and had to choose between keeping them separate but with the same power or merging them and getting two powers.

I think any kind of clone parahuman is unable to have a second trigger for the same reason Taylor couldn't have a second trigger. The power is already experimenting with some new power bandwidth, and Echidna's broken shard was helping somewhat with generating new criteria to create things like Chitter and Scurry, but it doesn't get to then receive the new versions and tweak them for later. They're disposable compared to the original host. A 'what if' to keep the original on their toes. All of the Echidna clones get killed in the end anyway. S9k clones were designed by bonesaw, so I can't really say that they're running off the same rules as their original parahumans.

To answer your question, the canon example of twins who had powers but weren't case 70s would be Fenja and Menja, and I don't think twins can second trigger while they're still alive. Again, the monkey's paw has to come into effect. I could see a case where the surviving sister second triggers without her sister, and it draws her dead sister into herself and you get altered powers and a case 70 situation. For Fenja and Menja, they could become Hel and get moon/sun, night/day alterations on their powers, but their powers are getting big and durable so I don't really know how you can riff off that. There really isn't very many problems they can't solve by getting bigger and more durable, not without that problem completely overpowering them before they can second trigger and killing them.

My headcanon here is; if there's only one twin surviving, they can second trigger and maybe end up with a case 70 situation where the dead twin comes back.

So what's the very long version? Yes, you just have to know what you're writing as an exception. I think all three of those should be allowed and would be very interesting.

Second trigger Questions

I've read both Worm and Ward twice now and I loved both. I just have a couple of questions about second triggers.

If someone where to have a second trigger right as some one else was triggering could they become a part of a cluster?

If some one is in a cluster and they second trigger does that effect their cluster mates and is it only their main power that is changed or all of them.

If twins who were not case 70 capes second trigger next to each other could they become case 70s?

GIVE. IN. GIVE. IN. GIVE. IN.

Drawing Cradle Fanart for a friend, accidentally made him a tumblr sexy man… should I erase my shin or give in to the meme…

I can see Amy hating herself enough to have an amnesia inducing meltdown. Calling Victoria through muscle memory and being too shocked and grief-stricken to talk when she answers. Mourning the living. Deifying her love and putting an ideal version of her on a pedestal. Awful yet sincere karaoke. A binoclard torque-dork with plenty of empathy would fix her I agree. Would she be a Sorry Cop?

People say that Amy Dallon is the Shinji of Parahumans, but I declare that she's actually Harry Dubois. I will put this theory in practice the moment I figure out how to write a quest fanfic.

now that would be a kickass crossover. detective victoria on the case and in her 40s. waking up in her trashed and gouged up hotel room with the wretch ripping up the floor and ceiling. being a member of The City's parahuman citizen militia. rather than an interinsula phone call, it's an interdimensional call to Amy. she used to be a basketball coach before she joined the force.

Disco Wardlysium, a game about being a cop. What capeotype are you? The Warrior Monk? The Wretch? Victoria Ambrosius Costeau?

hey what the fuck is up with Ward?

If Nursery wasn’t such a fucking creep, I’d feel bad for her literally having the definition of “my power is to sexually assault you”. On a decent person, that is literally the ultimate cursed power to bear and like… never ever fucking use.

Like, there’s no way to go hero with that power in the first place, but goddamn if Nursery isn’t like, “Welp… time to forcefully impregnate people”.

I think the main disconnect people have between Worm and Ward is that Worm is very fast paced and action packed with characters constantly dealing with new crises. Ward also has that but is much slower paced and focused more on character interactions.

Thats not to say Ward isn't without its flaws, its way messier then Worm and Victoria can be a frustrating POV sometimes. But overall I think it balances out

ward opinions (as of 12.3)

I might start liveblogging (if I do, it'll be tagged as #ward lb, so block that if you want), so I figured I might as well put out my opinions thus far.

Firstly, I went in with very low expectations, given the popular opinion of Ward. And so far, I've been very positively surprised. I really like Victoria as a narrator, and I find it a lot easier to relate to her than I did with Taylor. A lot of her thoughts and actions regarding Amy remind me of myself, and her experiences with and as the wretch sound a lot like how I've experienced dysphoria.

I like Breakthrough as a whole a lot. I find the Capricorn dynamic to be very interesting, and I fucking love Rain. Each of the characters have intriguing storylines that keeps me interesting in their development.

For storyline, I think the Hollow Point fight dragged on a bit, but I've never been super invested in fight scenes. I tend to get distracted and can't keep track of who did what, when, where, etc. I'm not able to visualize well and I can't really "picture" the fight happening as I read it, so I either have to put in a lot of effort to think logically about how things are happening or, more often, it just kind of blends together. I actually ended up taking ~6 months off from reading in the middle of 5.3 or 5.4 I think it was. That's just personal preference, though.

I'm personally much more invested in the character development and interpersonal dynamics, especially with Breakthrough.

I definitely thought the Goddess arc would be bigger and more disastrous, but I don't mind how it went. I knew that Chris eventually left the team and went with Amy, but I didn't expect it to happen like that, nor did I anticipate the Lab Rat reveal.

Currently, I'm loving the Cradle/mall cluster arc. I imagine if you don't like Rain/the mall cluster, their story would seem way too drawn out and obnoxious, but I really like it, with Rain definitely being my favorite character (at least thus far).

So far, my favorite moments have been Rain getting his haircut (I was reading it in class and had to try really hard not to cry during lecture lol. I still get teary-eyed thinking about it). I also really liked the Capricorn interludes. I relate to Byron a lot, and I don't think I've gotten so angry, especially while reading, at something in a while.

Character relationships I'm interested in seeing how they develop include Victoria and Tattletale, Victoria and Ashley, Rain and Tristan, March and Foil, Kenzie and Chicken Little, Vista and Bitch, and Victoria and Byron.

As with Worm, I'm constantly being surprised by moments of foreshadowing or just referencing small details. One example I can think of off the top of my head is the Lab Rat reveal. When it was revealed, I immediately went back to Worm to reread parts of it with this new context in mind, as well as to refresh my memory on who Lab Rat was. In Worm, he's described as "the last person one might expect to be a tinker. He had a mouth full of teeth that were screaming for braces, all crammed towards the very front of his mouth, overlapping and sticking out of lower gums" (27.3). That immediately hits two notes from what we know about Chris: 1) he has braces because him "changing" affects him physically. 2) he hid the fact that he was a tinker, claiming to be a changer instead.

I love these little details, and I'll notice some subtle foreshadowing as I read because of the things I've been spoiled on.

Of course, there are criticisms to be had (do we really need to know this character's chest size, Wildbow?), but overall, I'm really enjoying the story and characters.

I did not register that Taylor killed Aster until my friend started yelling at me about while I was recounting my thoughts on the chapter. My reading comprehension abilities are quite iffy

For a brief period before reading it, I thought the book was called "Wyrm". Even though I was aware this was a book about a bug villain and the other spelling made way more sense.

I think Ward is really good actually despite its many flaws.

Around Arc 2 or 3 I somehow got it in my head that Alexandria was the undersiders secret boss. Luckily this was not true and Alexandria was not involved in anything shady or duplicotus whatsoever.

Wormblr Confession Time:

At the risk of inventing Worm Catholicism and generating guilt where there shouldn't be, I'm making a post for myself and y'all to share our Worm Confessions.

Okay, here goes:

I got into Worm because I saw it mentioned on tv tropes.

I got into Worm fanfic because I saw THAT mentioned on tv tropes as well.

As much as I want people to find Brian interesting as a character because he IS interesting and a badass and doesn't get enough credit in general, Taylor/Brian is a boring ship and people were 100% justified in making other ships way more popular.

No aand while we're on the subject I think it's BS that Victoria considers herself a thinker +1 based off that. That's like if u stood up on a ladder and went "Look at me everyone! I'm a thinker +1 now!"

Do you think that victoria "being able to fly gives me a thinker 1 rating" dallon would be normal about that prt director guy giving skitter +2 in every single category

I think with enough time and effort I could be the Lakesbian of Kenzie or Bitch

i wish more worm characters had a lakesbian for them. I would love to be the lakesbian for lisa but i'm not insane enough about her, and I don't know enough. i think lakesbian just has a little alec vasil living up in that dome, and whenever they get an ask like "what does alec think about burger king" or something stupid like that they call him up on a little rotary phone and he says "-" see i don't even know what alec would think of burger king.

Things you never say to someone who just came out (Worm Editition)

Sylvester what are you doing here?!?!

No costume required just T Pose like a boss.

Byron and Tristan got real lucky in the Fallen Raid, because both of their costumes could be mistaken for Fallen Aesthetics (Leviathan and Behemoth)

Victoria x Lisa is the Elias x Peter of the worm fandom

Oh shit, June is almost over