Natal Chart Placements - 4th House, 8th House, And 12th House

Natal Chart Placements - 4th house, 8th house, and 12th House

The 4th, 8th, and 12th house in Astrology deals with your secretive side or the side you would rather not broadcast. It matters which sign and element you have in these houses to have more context. People with air in their 4th, 8th, and 12th house are likely to have intuitive messages or knowing about certain things. It's like the information just trickles through the atmosphere into their subconscious. Some of these people are flat out psychics or have abilities whether they honor them or not. Certain elements in these houses won't really have intuitive type of behavior. Let's explain a little bit. Someone with Aries in their 4th house will be comfortable and maybe even private about the things they do or get into. They are comfortable with taking action which basically makes them assertive. Someone with Aries in their 8th house is secretive and more protective of the things they do or get into. Their passionate side may show a bit more dramatic. The anger will either show freely or it will be hidden until a climax. The ruler of Aries which is Mars and the house that it is in will determine how one's passion or anger is shown.

Obsessions for 8th Housers?

Do 8th housers get obsessed with someone and stay obsessed for years? It may not be romantic interest but even someone who displays the traits and emotions that the native embodies inside - quite literally the shadow work.

It happens in their life that they often get obsessed with someone, thinking about them all the time, when they speak they only speak about that person, they cannot even attempt to think about someone else, their emotions are tied to that person's behaviour, their memory is flooded with that person, they think about all the conversations with them and all the encounters with them, they make up scenarios in their head, begin their day with that person and end with that person. The subject of their obsession may not even know that the native is obsessed with them, native pretends everything is normal on the outside but secretly inside they are obsessing over that one person like crazy

You would wonder what the hell is this? Is it something deeply psychological issue? It turns out that these natives get obsessed with people who have something in their physical or material life that the native lacks but wants to have. 8th house deals with intense emotions and envy too is felt intensely. They are often not happy at the success of others and may even feel envious of other people's accomplishments. 8th house is psychologically complicated for a reason. If the native does not have certain things in life, he feels envious and bitter against someone who does have that thing. It could be something like respect in society, powerful job, elite lifestyle, somebody's looks or intelligence.

The natives may not even realize they are doing it and since envying someone is frowned upon socially as ethically incorrect, they feel ashamed of their emotions and add to the self-sabotage. That something is wrong with them or that they are a bad person for envying someone else's good fortune. Even talking about this behaviour is taboo because who wants to admit that they are an envious and greedy person? The envy is not unfounded because in - the material world a lot of people compete for few resources so most people are bound to lack the resources; - not everyone starts from the same point in life; - not everyone has the same natural inclination or potential; - not everyone wins the genetic lottery or is exceptionally lucky; - not everyone has the required intelligence or ability to understand concepts. The usual things that successful people say "I am here because I worked hard, the harder I work the luckier I get" is not quite correct because our decisions, choices, thoughts, instincts, impulses, motivations are often unconscious and only make sense in the hindsight. They also underestimate the extreme luck they had to beat the competition and know the right method that makes them successful at something.

On top of that, many of them go on to flash, rub it in other's faces, identify with their success and use it for hierarchy control. That others are inferior to them, "you are an inferior human because you are not as successful as me". Often they do it unconsciously because they do not realize it is their insecurities and inferiority complexes, despite the success, that they still want to prove themselves to others and maintain their dominance over others. It is true that not everyone who gets successful in life is capable of handling that success emotionally, it goes to their head, they become arrogant and flamboyant, they are convinced that they are great and special, that they know better than others, that they must be better humans with better karma. This is no surprise, what I am telling is the insights I have observed over the years.

Take this astrology page, for example. I know astrology because it was a natural impulse in me, it is easier for me to understand the language of astrology than others who are simply not meant for it, since it is my natural interest I also spend a lot of time thinking about it so I automatically get better at it naturally, for some reason I was born with the genetic lottery in occult and a natal chart with karmic influences in the field of occult. None of my family members are into astrology and some of them do not even know the basics. Astrology is like Spanish to them, completely dumbfounded they are when they see the birth chart. Does this mean I am a better human than them because I understand something they do not? Can I use the astrological knowledge to dominate and show off to others? No, that is arrogance, pride, being self-important and being delusional that my astrology knowledge is something I willed. I did not will it, it happened to me. And it is not permanent and eternal, I will die someday and with that my astrology gifts will end too. It is my purpose for this lifetime, not eternally giving.

For these reasons, 8th house is the shadowy and complicated thing that we do not understand on the surface. How easy it is to slip into entanglements of pride, ego, arrogance, possession over your material accomplishments. What we do not realize is that behind the glamour of success is deep fear of uncertainty, insecurity, lack of agency over one's life and fear of losing everything they have gained in life. Fear of losing good fortune makes someone dominate others so nobody else takes their place, become arrogant because internally they do not believe they actually deserve their good fortune, manipulate and misguide others so they do not become successful like them, build a brand for themselves so they leave a legacy and remain important even after death, they try to act like they know the secrets of success because they cannot digest that their success might just be a fluke or gamble of luck.

However, if these tendencies are ignored and dismissed, they bottle up inside and inflate the native's ego. With transition to 8th house or activation of 8th house in its ruler's dasha, this inflated ego is threatened and forced to collapse, undergo change and transform. The end result is to gradually realize that ego is merely an attachment to material form but what we forget to see is the wholeness of Self beyond the ego. When you go beyond "I, my, mine, myself", you realize that you are a nameless, faceless and invisible something. How scary is it to be a nothing in nowhere as a nobody! So you cling to the past, identity, material life, out of fear that you will never come back from the underworld.

So the obsessions that happen to 8th housers are indication of personal issues that native denies. For eg, it may be someone you deeply hate, even the way they talk just disgusts you, the way they move sends chills down your spine, you hate their vibes and how selfish they are. But at the same time, you are obsessed with them, does this person deserve your obsession? No. But can you shake it off? Not unless you accept the hard truth that you are just as selfish, deceitful, egotistical as the subject of your obsession. The rule of 8th house is that awareness and consciousness will set you free while denial and refusal to look into the shadow will keep you trapped.

Similarly, if you are envious of someone's fortune, can you identify your insecurities and label them? Can you achieve that fortune in some way? If not, can you adjust your perception around it? Often feelings are the guiding lights in this house. What no one can tell you, you feel your way through it. Here is no guru and no mentor, here is you and your feelings. That is why being in tune with your feelings is painful, mentally uncomfortable and tiring but essential task for 8th housers. Lucky are those who identify this psychological hurdle. There are many 8th housers who never realize that they can solve their own problems with change of perception or becoming more conscious of their feelings. Often, the obsessions with people will end when you are self-aware and witnessing your feelings, no matter how uncomfortable they are.

Why I Think That 8th House Placements Are Most Valuable

OBJECTIVITY:

During my 8th house initiation, I met not one but 10+ bad people back to back; they were coming into my life one way or the other as if a bee attack. In the beginning I was very frustrated to see all these narcissists and sociopaths around me, but later on I started peeling my own layers and realized that I was not an angel like I thought. These encounters were like a mirror to me, they showed me what I could not see otherwise in myself. They showed me my own vanity and narcissism. They showed me my own darkness, ignorance and blind spots. I thought I was a normal person until I realized I was actually an emotionally manipulative asshole who had simply not matured yet. And this trickster exists in everyone, but they do not realize it until they go deep within. Most people live their lives on surface levels, while those who do go deeper keep their lives private and secretive so you would not know their affairs unless you are personally involved with them. The reason for keeping their lives private is that the world does not seem to understand them, the world ridicules them and outcasts them.

VANITY DETECTION:

8th housers and scorpio placements have an inbuilt vanity detector in them. They can tell who is being insincere, self-contradictory, manipulative, arrogant, who has ulterior motives, etc. They will physically feel sick and disgusted around people who do and say superficial things. Their disgust pushes them to seek answers that are beyond superficiality. This is why 8th housers run from public eye because they want to stay away from persona as much as possible while being true to their emotions and authentic self. These natives learn from their experience, which is why they try to be the most authentic that they can because they want to be that one source of true light in this blind world of superficial niceness and social performance.

TRAUMA AS AWAKENING:

8th house gives trauma like no others. But these traumas, after you have gone through the duration of it, will show you hidden insights. They will push you away from material life and deep into spiritual layers. You will see deeply materialistic natives turning spiritual and emotional. Nobody knows true empathy like an 8th houser because they have actually known their own narcissism and its impact on others. They know how dangerous they can be because they have seen their own darkness, which is why they show true kindness and empathy towards everyone. These natives know that even if the situation gets very bad, they will still survive and come out on the other side with a bag of lessons to understand and accept. These natives are the type to ask "What if I was in their shoes? Will it still be so funny?" this is why they can be so kind, understanding and empathetic.

DISSOLUTION OF EGO:

Self actualization is their favorite hobby. The thing with 8th house is that it forces you, breaks you, crushes you to your extreme limits. It tests your limits. It tests how much you can bear and still survive. And this house is deeply psychological. So the events and trauma of life really deeply impact the ego of the native. No matter how hard shelled they were, they are forced and crushed to the ground until they awaken. The native suffers so much, so much, so much that the suffering finally breaks their ego attachment and helps them see their own ignorance and blind spots.

In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice. ― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

DARKNESS:

While it appears that the rest of the world who do not have 8th house placements can live a conventional life blindly it is the 8th housers that are being faced with revelations and setbacks that are hidden and complicated. These setbacks are so "below the surface" that the 8th housers are compelled to analyze people and wonder how others can live their lives so carelessly and still be highly functional. It is the 8th housers who are being faced with the darkness of psyche again and again until they surrender to it and begin to explore the irrational and unconscious side of the life. There are two worlds: one in which the non-8th housers live and the other in which the 8th housers live. The world of 8th housers is deep, beneath the surface, seeing the hidden patterns between people and situations, seeing the hidden patterns between people and their fate. They are forced to look at the world this way otherwise they keep encountering problems in physical life that have no solutions.

TRANSFORMATIONS:

8th housers go through a lot of revelations and transformations. While other people can live their lives with same set of beliefs, thoughts, perspectives, ideals as ever; 8th housers are always being faced with shocking, manipulative, psychically controlling situations that make them change their whole beliefs and perspectives and start again, only to be challenged again by another psychic complex. Their whole life is a series of complex psychological problems that they have to change their beliefs about people and events from experience all the time. While others can be living their life through a breeze, 8th housers wonder why they are making errors in judgment, why they find themselves in complicated situations though they had good intentions, why they are being tested though others seem to be winging it easily.

8th house placements are not for the weak-hearted. Whoever said that humans are sweet kind angels can take a hard look to all the cruelty, wars, murders, rapes, crimes, genocides that happened in this world. Is that what you call sweet kind angel? There is potential for cruelty in each one of us, no matter how self-righteous and strong willed you claim to be and nobody knows this better than 8th housers/plutonic people. In their own journey of self discovery, they will see the images of their own devil, trickster, all the wrongs they have committed unconsciously in past, all the secret fantasies, the evil dark thoughts they hide from the world. These natives know their darkness, they do not claim to be saints because they are not. Nobody is.

💣Venus in the 8th💣

If you have this placement, I bet you go crazy for stories about forbidden love affairs and were probably a hoe for Twilight.

Your love life feels cursed and rich at the same time. Every relationship and encounter has had a level of edge and profoundness to it, and deep down that's how you like it. You're the kind who remembers the names of your one night stands, because they had that part of you. You like to think that sticky situations, forbidden love, scandals, all that good stuff, just love to follow you around, but in reality it's you who can't leave all of that alone. You have an unconscious need to sabotage and purge yourself through relating. It's as if drama fulfills your experiences. Jealousy, worship, and knowing that you turn people on and are attractive to them can all be like dopamine to you. This is where it gets scary. You can easily measure your worth by how wanted you are by others, and could get to a point where you're not fulfilled unless you have someone hooked on you or are hooked on them. If you don't come to terms with this, you can easily develop a victim mentality and end up not taking responsibility for your actions

If you and your lover haven't gone through the throws of each other's psyche, your relationship isn't there yet. Depth equals substance. Demonstrated devotion and vulnerability is what will really make you confident that people want you. You'd love for someone to look at you and think "mine". There's a part of you, no matter the sign your Venus falls in, that wants someone to own your entire being and give themselves to you in return. You sometimes expect this right off the bat in relationships and mess things up with these expectations. In the beginning of a relationship, you probably find yourself thinking something's off if you don't think you're willing to die for them yet. You need to remind yourself that true intimacy takes time. It's not something you can just shop for. It also takes trust which is something you struggle to have sometimes. When someone breaks your heart, you can't bear it. The pain is real on all levels, even physical, that's why you want to avoid it at all costs. It's exhausting. You dread having to give your entire self to someone all over again just to get fucked over a second time.

No one knows shit about your love life unless you want them to, and the ones you do tell won't know everything. Your loved ones are YOURS. They're your babies, and you dare other people to mess with them. The capacity in which you love is boundless and deeper than most people. The Plutonic lessons in your life are learned through experiences with others, which is usually painful. If you chose to evolve positively, you will grow to be able to withstand anything and gain unspeakable wisdom. Your deepest desire is to belong to someone who will love you from head to toe and never leave.

Marry a Sun in 7th houser

Projection

As I said in a previous post about 7th house Sun, here the native has an underdeveloped ego. They do not feel respected enough, do not feel complete on their own. Every human wants a relationship but these natives NEED a relationship like it is their energy drink, batteries, electricity generator. Like their system wouldn't work if they are not relating to somebody all the time. Imagine driving a car with no lights at night, how hard is that. But let's say somebody else is telling you the directions, somebody else who knows the roadmap, somebody else who is guiding you, you can drive the car even in dark because of their instructions. This is what it feels like to have this placement. Like they do not have the same confidence in themselves but if someone else is by their side, they suddenly have all the confidence in the world. Reason being that they project themselves upon others and only understand themselves in relation to others. In this situation, she needs a man or close people to intuitively tell her who she is. She understands herself in relation to others; as a disadvantage of this placement, she can confine herself to identity like "Somebody's wife", "Somebody's daughter", "Somebody's friend". Ironically, she even likes that position. Yes, there is a secret desire to be independent, to be somebody on her own but the greater desire is to be dependent on someone else!

With these ladies, there is a sense of invisibility. As if they do not know who they are unless they are in a relationship or surrounded by other people. For ladies, it is always advisable to look up the birth chart of their mom and see the ascendant, moon and sun. It will show how her core personality has shaped and influenced your own core personality. For example, I find this description of Mother Complex in relation to 7h Sun daughter really apt because of how empty a daughter feels:

Identity with the Mother =

If a mother-complex in a woman does not produce an overdeveloped Eros, it leads to identification with the mother and to paralysis of the daughter’s feminine initiative. A complete projection of her personality on to the mother then takes place, owing to the fact that she is unconscious both of her maternal instinct and of her Eros.

Everything which reminds her of motherhood, responsibility, personal relationships, and erotic demands arouses feelings of inferiority and compels her to run away—to her mother, naturally, who lives to perfection everything that seems unattainable to her daughter. As a sort of superwoman (admired involuntarily by the daughter), the mother lives out for her beforehand all that the girl might have lived for herself. She is content to cling to her mother in selfless devotion, while at the same time unconsciously striving, almost against her will, to tyrannize over her, naturally under the mask of complete loyalty and devotion. The daughter leads a shadow-existence, often visibly sucked dry by her mother, and she prolongs her mother’s life by a sort of continuous blood transfusion.

These bloodless maidens are by no means immune to marriage. On the contrary, despite their shadowiness and passivity, they command a high price on the marriage market. First, they are so empty that a man is free to impute to them anything he fancies. In addition, they are so unconscious that the unconscious puts out countless invisible feelers, veritable octopus-tentacles, that suck up all masculine projections; and this pleases men enormously.

All that feminine indefiniteness is the longed-for counterpart of male decisiveness and single-mindedness, which can be satisfactorily achieved only if a man can get rid of everything doubtful, ambiguous, vague, and muddled by projecting it upon some charming example of feminine innocence. Because of the woman’s characteristic passivity, and the feelings of inferiority which make her continually play the injured innocent, the man finds himself cast in an attractive role: he has the privilege of putting up with the familiar feminine foibles with real superiority, and yet with forbearance, like a true knight. (Fortunately, he remains ignorant of the fact that these deficiencies consist largely of his own projections.)

The girl’s notorious helplessness is a special attraction. She is so much an appendage of her mother that she can only flutter confusedly when a man approaches. She just doesn’t know a thing.

She is so inexperienced, so terribly in need of help, that even the gentlest swain becomes a daring abductor who brutally robs a loving mother of her daughter. Such a marvellous opportunity to pass himself off as a gay Lothario does not occur every day and therefore acts as a strong incentive. This was how Pluto abducted Persephone from the inconsolable Demeter. But, by a decree of the gods, he had to surrender his wife every year to his mother-in-law for the summer season. (The attentive reader will note that such legends do not come about by chance!)

Narcissism in Husband

Like attracts like. Here with Sun in 7h, boyfriend/husband shows narcissistic behaviours, any of these:

Wanting attention to himself

Golden child of his family

Wants to feel powerful and authoritarian

Wants ego boost

Can be self-centered and selfish

My way or highway; decision maker

Was overly inflated by parents

Trophy husband;

Wants to be your center of attention

Feels important

Asserts his authority

Is faithful, Sun for some reasons gives loyalty to husband

Dominating - Submissive dynamic

Remember! Narcissistic behaviour is trauma response from repeated childhood neglect and abuse. You cannot fix him but he can heal himself if his birth chart is well balanced. Nevertheless, even though we cannot change how planets operate in house, we can become aware of them and lower our expectations - create boundaries - educate ourselves - care for ourselves.

Trigger warning = May offend someone; Ladies with sun 7H are actually quite codependent, submissive, wifey type. They are the ones to be the traditional wife, "my husband is my hero" type. So, although it may offend progressive minded people to think that she is giving up her power, but for the native it can be real choice between keeping the relationship by compromising some of her powers or be single. Relationships are hard sometimes for some natives especially when it is a major life purpose.

Marriage

It is highly advisable to take some break in your 20s and to find yourself, your identity, individuality, who you are when you are not around other people. It is hard and terrifying at first, but it will be like life changing exercise for you. This goes for Sun in Libra as well even if it is not placed in the 7th house because the sign will show the characteristics.

Nevertheless, once married, they are bound to lose themselves in their husband and IF THEY ARE MATURE, they can actually make the relationship work long term by keeping their powers, independent decision making, take the positive things from their husband while keep boundaries when he shows dominating behaviors. Remember! Maturity. Maturity. Maturity.

Devotion and Worship

It is a tragedy to be born with the planet of romantic love (venus) in the house of the subconscious mind (8). A primal instinct (sex) combined with the basic unit of humanity (romantic relationship) placed in the hidden and the unknown. You were born because your mom and dad made love, that love ... is venus. Now take the essence of your life and put it somewhere hidden. Every time you get into a relationship, your psychological contents are shaken, highlighted, brought to the surface. Deal with them endlessly.

Devotion to love is something you learned before you learned to talk. You knew you were a romantic, a devotee shall I say? Love was not just a formality or to-do act for you, love was life itself. It was breathing, thinking, eating, sleeping, dreaming. You were *that* girl.

Why Devotion?

She was quite a devotee. All she had ever wanted was to put a man on a pedestal and worship him - not the man himself but his image, an archetype, an ideal, an emotion, a perfect masculine image that he generated in her. Merely worshipping him was enough validation and approval of her existence. Maybe it was her low self esteem that she saw herself as a very small person that had to worship someone greater than herself. Maybe it was her intense emotional complex that was so deep that she would get lost in it. Maybe it was her spiritual nature that she did not want a man but she wanted God itself.

But the Twist

While it sounds very romantic and poetic to devote yourself to a man, it does not work out like that in real life. Especially with Venus in 8H or scorpio, the kind of romantic relationship they attract are reverse of their expectation. The man (Jupiter) they attract is not the kind of imaginary God they expect, not the kind of fairy tale in movies. The pattern for these women is that they attract the kind of men who are somewhat mystic, psychic, controlling, working from a place of psychological senstivity. These are the men that do not want to be worshipped but instead reverse the cards and worship the woman instead.

It means that they have romantic situations where both parties want to worship each other or at least has the psychological desire to. So, who will worship and who be worshipped? Man or the woman? Let the man worship, that way both parties are content. Otherwise the woman keeps chasing man after man, sometimes the games are played differently.

Logic

It appears to me that when venus is placed in 8th house, romantic relations become a tool for healing. It is how Venus 8h destroys herself and rebuilds after every crush/situationship/break up is over. As if "Devotion to you is finished, now onto someone else but I will kill a part of myself for you, it is my offering to you". Here, Venus is a catalyst for healing, change, emotions, intuition, psychic abilities. A relationship is an invitation door to psychic affairs, here the native is constantly dealing with the emotions, transformations and the unconscious.

They do not get into relationship for status symbol or to make friend with their boyfriend or to admire looks and material wealth. They get into relationship so that the boyfriend can dissect their souls for them, they can dive into the psychic realms and be rescused, only to dive again and again.

Sometimes romantic love feels like being a fish in the waters of the unconscious. The most self aware state caused by relationship. All planets have spiritual significance and so does venus. Venus in 8th house is like navigating the relationship in psychic levels. Enlightenment comes when you trace the pattern of failed expectations and realize that the kind of man you attract has specific psychic qualities, like a hunter, he is driven by his insecurities, instincts, complexes and never satisfied self esteem. If you surrender yourself to him, he will be manipulative and controlling. But if you withdraw your powers and let him surrender to you, you can be the manipulative and controlling one. This is the most difficult kind of relationship because you always have to be alert of the psychic movements of your boyfriend -- what is he thinking, what are his intentions, is he feeling insecure and suspicious?

Usually these ladies are not intentionally manipulative and controlling especially after maturity and spiritual awakening. They accept the man's devotion as an offering and sit on the throne.

But ladies, what about your own devotion?

In the early tumblr days when I joined, I stumbled upon a post that read "Scorpio Venus should just be a polymath, use that insatiable intensity in other means and not just invest all of it in a man..." Venus does not rule studies but it does rule creativity, beauty, art, music, artistic talents, appreciation for beauty. Also in psychic realms, symbolism has a significant merit for the exploration and expression of what is unconscious, unknown and hidden. What does not have a language it is expressed in symbols and art.

It is a difficult lesson I too learned as a Venus in 8H lady by realizing that my particular placement and similar placements to this need to abide by rule that "Man needs to love the woman more for the relationship to work out". But to reach this point of emotional self control, even I had to go through many trials and mental rewiring. I would relapse many times to my devotee state until the repeated relapse made the self control easier.

Sometimes, we have to act opposite to our natural core impulses to make a relationship work. I know that the expected personality archetype of these natives is to "Ride or die, Wear their lover's skin, Soul lover", but in practical life it is not feasible for woman to be so emotional and devotional. It is only her loss because the low self esteem man she usually attracts will feel stagnated, he wants to be challenged and prove his worth to her. Low self esteem does not mean low value man. This lady attracts people with significant past trauma, dark childhood stories, the unhealed sensitive lover -- perhaps that is why she is a healer. Her man can heal but keep your boundaries too.