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Magnus Protocol Speculation

Thoughts about Episode 7, Give and Take.

If this is not Celia from the end of TMA, I will be very surprised. But if it is, it opens some interesting questions.

Why send Celia? (I'm assuming she didn't just fall through Hill Top Road, or decide to come all on her own) My thought: her experience burned the Fear out of her, so she's safe (and Georgie had done her bit).

For what purpose? What is Celia in the world to accomplish? Best guess for now: looking for Jon and Martin on behalf of the other survivors. Possibly just following the Fears to see how things are going for the newly invaded world.

Can anyone move between the worlds? (Presumably via Hill Top Road) Hard to say at this point. Other than *cough* Chester, Norris, and Augustus, we haven't seen any other definitive worldwalkers (and those were presumably pulled in with the Fears)

Stopping for now, though I have a few others I could add... letting them percolate a bit more.

Choice in TMP

Since it's going on hiatus, I relistened to (nearly) all of Protocol yesterday (still have ep 10 to go). And I was thinking about a lot of people saying things like, "They're Desires now, not Fears!" And I don't think that's quite it. What I noticed is that in nearly every case, there is a voluntary act, a choice, that allows the horrors in. And since actions generally follow from desires, it feels like desire is playing a stronger roll in this show.

I've been prepping to run a Mothership campaign for my friends, and the Warden's Guide talks about the TOMBS system of understanding horror: Transgression, Omens, Manifestation, Banishment, Slumber. In TMA, the Transgression was often just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but in TMP, it seems like there also has to be a choice made, almost an invitation, for the horrors to Manifest. In TMA, a choice was required to become an Avatar, but not just to run into the Fears. Perhaps something about how the Fears entered this world changed this? Maybe Archivist-Jon had enough influence to create some new rules, or Martin's choice that brought them through echoed into the manifestation?

Anyway, I could be entirely wrong, but I'm going to go through the episodes pointing out the Choice (and where it doesn't quite fit).

Episode 1: Arthur's wife reached out to a mysterious company (we don't know why, but it seems likely it was claiming it could put her in contact with her dead husband) Red Canary chose to visit the Magnus Institute Ruins

Episode 2: Daria chose to get the tattoo.

Episode 3: The Doctor chose to follow the smell of jasmine.

Episode 4: The narrator chose to take the violin (but I am less clear on how choice impacted what happened to Oliver Bardwell; that's a bit that doesn't quite fit)

Episode 5: The blogger chose to enter the contest and to attend once he'd "won".

Episode 6: The mugger chose to attack Needles. (And I find myself wondering what Choice Needles made to became as he is)

Episode 7: DMargolis chose to advertise for assistants AND chose to accept the first rather questionable applicant.

Episode 8: Here, the weirdness started before he made the Choice, but he did Choose to enter the elevator to (attempt to) escape. Another that doesn't quite fit, but still has a Choice.

Episode 9: He chose to take the dice (though it does feel like rolling them may be compulsory in certain instances).

Episode 10: There was definitely a Choice made to create Bonzo the character, but I'm not sure we have enough context to figure out more than that yet.

Matches my own thoughts about Choice. Glad I'm not the only one seeing that as a pattern!

(minor TMA spoilers and general TMAGP spoilers) Having so much time to think about incidents in TMAGP due to hiatus made me realize that all of them, to some degree, contain the theme of "sealing your own fate" or "consequences of greed/hubris".

You see, while I do not believe that TMA had a consistent theme every statement was based on, the overall messege seemed to be that horrors are inevitable. Once you've been marked you cannot escape, no amount of therapy or running can release you from it. I think Michael Crew is the best example of that:

"The thing that chased me, you see, it was an arcing branch of the Twisting Deceit, taken shape to follow me. (...) And I knew within that book was something that could not only release me from my pursuer, but chain my being to that rush of wind and vertigo forever." Michael Crew in "The Coming Storm"

You cannot escape it once you've been marked, only bind yourself to different one and this marking is, most often than not, nonconsensual. Jane Prentiss would run around and infect random people, Not!Them didn't need anybody to come to them before it was sealed and Peter Lukas also tended to just disappear random people just to feed. The fears were very predatorial and active and the victims were selected based on their own fears and anxieties. This is not to say there weren't victims who failed due to their own curiosity/hubris/greed, but I think it's telling that few of the most greedy/curious people in the series, Mikaele Salesa and Jurgen Leitner, stayed largely uncorrupted by the fears not cause they avoided interacting with them, but simply avoided getting marked by them.

Now we come to protocol and every incident so far has the main subject of that incident actively engage with the horror and have one or multiple points at which they could stop and leave, but they do not. Daria went to the tattoo shop on her own accord, Harriet wanted her husband back no matter what and even Dr Webber was described to be able to leave the garden whenever he wanted, but, due to hiding from authorities, chose to stay until it was too late for him. Every incident so far seems to have this theme of consent, characters detailing very clearly that consent was given to engage with the abnormality:

"Ah well that’s a tricky one. Sort of? In many ways he stabbed himself on me. By the time he saw the needles we were already very close. Close enough to smell his sweat and cheap aftershave. In fact, he barely had time to be afraid before we embraced. He’s terrified now of course…" Needles in "Introductions"

"The young man's interview was not exceptional as he had no experience in charity work, no driving license nor any demonstrable experience in retail. He claimed however, to know the Hilltop Centre better than anyone and as he was the only applicant in the role I elected to give him a try." Dianne Margolis in "Give and Take"

"I hesitated a moment but before I could consider her strangeness a particularly high tide of color swept down the corridor toward me. I panicked, and before I realized what I was doing I had darted inside the lift and slammed the close-door button." Terrance Stevens in "Running on Empty"

It does not matter some of these are under duress or deception, all of them contain some type of action "confirming" consent. Mind you I do not believe all the victims of of these horrors confirm consent in some way, like people who get killed by Bonzo probably didn't agree to it (though considering he's most likely a hitman, some degree of "you agreed to this by overstepping your boundaries" philosophy could be applied), but subjects of the incident very much pay for consequences of their own actions.

That brings us to OIRA itself, and how every character so far seems to actively dig themselves deeper by their own accord, Gwen wants position of power, Colin wants to figure out the system, Sam wants to know why he wasn't chosen and Alice is in it for the money (for her brother which still counts as consent). This is literally said directly to us in episode 1:

"If you hate working here so completely, you are perfectly within your rights to resign. No one is forcing you to stay here." Lena to Gwen in "First Shift"

All of this, all this horror is happening due to their own accord, curiosity, obligation, greed for knowledge or just for the money, it does not matter, the choice is there, but they delve deeper anyway. We will see how long it holds up, but I will be on the look out for this theme in the future.

Going to ponder about Protocol for a bit...

What can we guess about "The Magnus Protocol" in-universe?

It is at least as old as Isaac Newton.

It seems to be a way of keeping the Fears in check or balance or some such.

The O.I.A.R. "externals" are part of this effort, getting to use their dread powers to keep other powers from getting too strong.

And some vaguely related speculation:

It's a bit unclear how the timelines between Protocol and TMA connect/overlap/line-up/work, but since it seems that the fears have always been in this universe, presumably once they "enter" a universe, they have been present for the whole of that universe. Does that mean whatever's left of Jon and Martin has also been present for all that time? If so, they could have set up the Protocol themselves, to try and keep the Fears from turning this world into another hellscape. But then, why did their voices only show up on OIAR computers a few years ago?

Hang on. In TMA, Jon needed to read statements (or, well, extract them) to Feed. Are the voices in the computers doing that for him (or whatever's left of him)? Did he have another source that dried up a few years ago, so that he invaded the OIAR computers for a fresh source?

As for what happened to this universe's Jon and Martin, I wouldn't draw any conclusions until we see the bodies, lol. The "reveal" was from weak data and a lot of guesswork.

That's probably enough rambling for tonight.

So it occurred to me this morning that Lena might be unable to feel fear. The only place where we hear sound at all afraid (and even there it might be sadness mixed with frustration) is in the video Gwen uses to blackmail her.

Places I can think of where you would expect someone to be afraid, and Lena very definitely wasn't (probably not exhaustive) :

Finding out an employee is attacking equipment with a hammer, and might have injured another employee.

Finding out an employee was attacked by the external she sent her to recruit (Gwen was very definitely afraid; Lena, uh, nope)

Dressing down Gwen for bringing Lady Mowbray into the OIAR. Lena sounds angry, but not afraid.

When an employee tries to blackmail her with a (failed) snuff tape.

Honestly, it would make sense that they'd want someone immune to fear in charge of the OIAR.

TMP EP 8 SPOILER WARNING

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

GERRY KEAY BY BELOVED BABY BOY!!! I have NOT drawn in a while, but when I heard my baby boi- -art block has never left so quickly.

Bro still can't dye hair for shit tho--

Studies with my Boi. I love him, and completely normal about him.

________________

Mors Vincit Omnia

_________________

An eye for An eye

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As someone who listened to the full Hour of "Mr Bonzo" on April fools-

Now that I know he can be "summoned" with his song- I fear for everyone who ALSO listened to it. Good luck yall

Here's a thought:

If norris IS martin, he didn't really get to know what he was doing for Peter Lucas in Season 4 of TMA

Gwen wanted to know, but Lena wasn't going to tell her, for the sake of " Ignorance is bliss," and all that.

Norris didn't want the same vale of deceit for Gwen, so he did what she wanted. Told her what she did.

He really said "here you go" so she can avoid asking unnecessary questions and start asking the important ones.

Alice also eluding to knowing more is unsettling, and makes me think she's pulling a season 1 John.

"I know it's true, but I'm scared"

I find the statement of the victim interesting. She's mumbling about being under water. Frist thoughts, it could be a branch of the vast or the dark. She talks about murky water and cloudy white eyes.

However, as of right now, we don't know if the fears exist in this world. If they DO- they could just be pushed together into one issue of its own.

No.

I think, she was talking about whatever monster in the ocean that was in Marked [episode 11]. That whole episode was talking about the deep waters and sailors.

"The deep will care for his bones"

"Deeper...Deeper..down among the dead.." blah blah blah.

Whatever she was confessing to that tape, might have more to do with whatever is in that water then we think.

TLDR: Episode 21 was so confusing that I don't know how to talk about it with out confusing myself and others around me ,and time really isn't real

⚠️TMP EP 25 SPOILER WARNING⚠️

(Low Quality Doodle :p) Dude, I did not want to finish my lunch after this episode…….. I liked the noodles too………..

Listen to the warning notes, this is the SECOND time I lost my appetite with this podcast—

Bored college kid activities :p

Ep 27 was interesting! College started up again so I'm kinda busy now :p

⚠️slight ep 28 spoiler ⚠️

Look, I'm a BIG believer in "Let the man eat" For Jarchvist sims in S4 of TMA

But after listening to how this Archivest eats?

Now knowing and hearing what he did to those people back in s4? How horrible and awful it must have been for them?

I say let the man eat, still better then killing them, womp womp

⚠️tmp Ep 29 spoiler⚠️

Based on the “Archivist on the train” during ep 29. Bro needed a ticket, and here it is! Might put it up for sale on my Etsy, kinda like a silly goofy.

What do you guys think?

⚠️TMP EP 3O SPOILERS WARNING ⚠️

What- the fuck?

Looks theres a lot I could say with this case but I have to do homework so I'm going to make it quick.

Ceila wanting sam to answer Alice's calls to say good bye is heart breaking.

Colin probably breaking freddie is upsetting and he's probably doomed

We still don't know what Teddy wanted to tell alice

ALICE, queen, does her best to catch up and help Sam, only to witness someone die infront of her, AGAIN.

Sam is fucked and we don't know where the hell he ended up with, along side the archivist, who was probably trying to PROTECT him.

This is all odd and can't wait for more

Awwww fuck i made him too hot 😔

Haha anyway new favorite tmp character just dropped 🔥

Being a tma fan while also being bad at identyfying sfx is like "Ah yes I think this guy got burned alive" and instead the guy got eaten by a giant metal bug

something about the cases in tmagp keep reminding me of multiple of the fears so theory that they're not actually separate here

that smirkes 14 genuinely won't work for them

they came here directly after tma after they'd been fully in the universe where Jon specifically said the old divisions don't mean that much anymore so maybe that's still the case

because even then the eye was very separate because it was in charge and that still seems to be the case for some cases but the rest of them feel mingled like they fall under multiple fear categories

and the powers working together isn't a totally new concept leitner mentioned The Key of Solomon had elements of multiple powers

I also could be completely wrong because I was also never great at leitners whole what does the thing represent but tma statements felt more distinct than these

tmagp 27 spoilers

I have many thoughts on this episode but mainly Trevor Herbert is an mp and that's the funniest thing

Trevor I've been breaking the law since I was 14 Herbert is now a member of Parliament

this is the wildest switch of all the tma characters and its is genuinely hilarious to me