Remembering This Post Got Me Thinking About A Perspective In Which It Would Make Daenerys Clearly The

Remembering this post got me thinking about a perspective in which it would make Daenerys clearly The Younger Queen.

Cersei once drew herself as flying behind Rhaegar on a dragon, but Daenerys took Rhaegar's place and the dragon is hers to ride by herself.

Cersei always wanted to have the power of the man/the King, but she can barely even conceptualise it as such. Daenerys is growing into anything she could barely imagine a continent away, and by the time she shows up she would have already "taken" all (she's THE dragon, THE dragon rider, THE Queen, all actualised in the prime of her life while she's even also still THE beauty, while Cersei wasted even that in long years of chasing scraps and despicable men giving her little in that exchange). And Cersei hardly had any of that in a dream.

Except there's evidence or the lack thereof that they don't even really or truly care about it each other.There's no memories between since they never were never close and really spend any time together as they don't have anything significant in common and Sansa avoided like the plague as much as she possibly could due to her classicism regarding his bastardy.Jon is more concerned for Tyrion marrying Sansa instead of Joffrey while Catelyn and Robb are concerned for Sansa being forced to marry Tyrion "the ugly imp" cursed with dwarfism and "a grotesque appearance"😭Jon and Sansa might as well be estranged siblings☠️I also want to add that Sansa also likely "missed" Jon because Harry the Heir hurt her feelings when he called her a bastard,so she was subconsciously trying to But even then at that point,Sansa failed to acknowledge she mistreated Jon the way Harry treated her,be remorseful or realize what she did wrong to Jon or even her transgressions towards Arya,because Sansa lacks self-awareness,self-reflection,self-criticism (unlike Dany who's always way too hard on herself and self-deprecating) and never truly loved and care about Jon or her fully,blood-related,trueborn sister Arya. Sansa even wished that Margaery was her sister instead if Arya and even wished Arya died🤮And not to mention,there's literally no affection between Jon and Sansa unlike Jon and Arya who are very dear to each other with one of the strongest,most wholesome bond,not even just between family members in ASoIaF.To sum it up,Jon is indifferent to Sansa while Sansa disliked and harbored disgust for Jon for his bastardy.

Honestly, that anon who defended Jonsa as a “ship where Sansa marries for love and exerts her agency” really made me chuckle.

Throughout Sansa’s whole story, she’s engaged or almost engaged to other characters (Joffrey, Tyrion, Willas, Sweetrobin and Harry) in loveless matches. This has happened so many times she comes to resent this fact by thinking that no one would marry her for love.

The catch here is that a match with Jon would be just as loveless. We’re approaching book 6 out of 7 and they have thought about each other only a small number of times, are likely not to reunite soon due to the huge snow covering the North (& the complexity of the Vale/North plots each of them are entangled in) and, like you mentioned in a previous post, do not have compatible desires out of a marriage. On top of that, Jon is attracted to women like Ygritte and Val, who can be as deadly as they are pretty, who challenge highborn Westerosi society’s standarts of what it means to be a woman, and that’s something Sansa is not.

As a fan of book!Sansa, I don’t want her to change who she is to fit her husbands’ ideals, I want her to marry someone she genuinely likes and likes her back for who she is. And that someone is not the Jon Snow GRRM has written in his novels.

Yeah. If Sansa had to choose a partner for herself, would it be Jon Snow -- her bastard half-brother whom she has only thought about three times since leaving Winterfell? I mean, Jon doesn't have the greatest regard for conventionally feminine women or their activities and, like you said, wants a woman who is quite unconventional.

"I plan to stop at Winterfell on the way south. If there is any message that you would like me to deliver …"

"Tell Robb that I'm going to command the Night's Watch and keep him safe, so he might as well take up needlework with the girls and have Mikken melt down his sword for horseshoes."

"Your brother is bigger than me," Tyrion said with a laugh. "I decline to deliver any message that might get me killed."

(AGOT, Tyrion III)

All the same, the wildling princess was not beloved of her gaolers. She scorned them all as "kneelers," and had thrice attempted to escape. When one man-at-arms grew careless in her presence she had snatched his dagger from its sheath and stabbed him in the neck. Another inch to the left and he might have died.

Lonely and lovely and lethal, Jon Snow reflected, and I might have had her. Her, and Winterfell, and my lord father's name. Instead he had chosen a black cloak and a wall of ice. Instead he had chosen honor. A bastard's sort of honor.

(ADWD, Jon III)

"I will take any boy above the age of twelve who knows how to hold a spear or string a bow. I will take your old men, your wounded, and your cripples, even those who can no longer fight. There are other tasks they may be able to perform. Fletching arrows, milking goats, gathering firewood, mucking out our stables … the work is endless. And yes, I will take your women too. I have no need of blushing maidens looking to be protected, but I will take as many spearwives as will come."

(ADWD, Jon V)

Why not? thought Jon. They are all convinced she is a princess. Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her.

(ADWD, Jon XI)

Yet even that did not appease his Lord Steward. "You say these boys will serve as squires. Surely the lord commander does not mean they will be trained at arms?"

Jon's anger flared. "No, my lord, I mean to set them to sewing lacy smallclothes. Of course they shall be trained at arms. They shall also churn butter, hew firewood, muck stables, empty chamber pots, and run messages … and in between they will be drilled with spear and sword and longbow."

(ADWD, Jon XI)

And when it comes to Sansa, Sansa's regard for the bastard status hasn't exactly improved... As of her preview chapter in TWOW:

"The world is full of horrors, sweet. By now you ought to know that. You've seen enough of them."

"Yes," she said, "but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone."

"So far as he knows, that's who you are. This betrothal was never his idea, and Bronze Yohn has no doubt warned him against my wiles. You are my daughter. He does not trust you, and he believes that you're beneath him."

(TWOW, Alayne I)

It appears to me that Sansa's romantic plot line is going quite another way and Jon is hardly the fairytale storybook white knight Sansa once dreamed of (he's not exactly "gentle" in Ned's "brave, strong, and gentle" either). She thinks of Tyrion and the Hound far more than she does of Jon. I think Jon and Sansa care for each other because and only because they grew up as siblings, as children of Ned Stark -- and it's that sibling connection which (distant as though it may be) prompts that emotion. Nearly always, Jon refers to Sansa as 'my sister'/'my sisters', his memories and concerns are for sisters with the text using that term. If a sister is singled out, that's Arya, not Sansa. Sansa misses Jon in AFFC because she believes he is her only brother left. They never look at each other as anything but sister/half-brother, which is where any affection between the two comes from. So it's ironic when Jonsas try to claim that the one thing which is responsible for any feeling between Jon and Sansa doesn't exist.

guys, help a jonsa out

Jonsas want to know why Jonsa is so hated.

Jonsas answer.

Jonsas may want to consider the following if they're truly looking for genuine answers:

They claim anti Sansa bias from Jonsa antis but hammer home their Dany hate and harp on Dany as a "slaver" and Dany as a "white savior", going so far as to call Dany fans "slaver apologists" (who are the ones criticizing Dany for burning 163 slavers and saying she's disrespecting slavers' "customs"?) -- maybe consider your own Dany hate first, Jonsas:

Do Jonsas ever consider GRRM refuting Dany as a white savior or saying how Dany wants equality?

They come up with takes like the nonsensical Pol!Jon which turns Jon into a garbage human abuser scumbag and Dany into a brain dead sex bot tyrant whose favourite food is baby blood. Sansa though? Pure as she is pretty.

Arya gets to either be Sansa's bloodthirsty enemy or in service to Sansa (as Sansa's personal bodyguard, assassin, executioner, or new direwolf warned into Nymeria). It's either/or, guys.

Meanwhile, Rickon gets to be dead while Bran is just... over there... away from the North (but in full support of Queen Sansa of the independent Northern kingdoms of course, hands off but always ready to help)

Jonsas say they want good things for Sansa but there's no consideration for the other side of their ship, Jon, or what he wants (rather, they claim his own words and feelings on the matter mean nothing when it comes to what he wants). Jon wants a woman who is a distinctly non-traditionally feminine woman (and I imagine much less one who takes after the woman who was the main source of misery for Jon when he was growing up at Winterfell) -- but that can't at all be a reason why the fandom finds Jonsa to be implausible no, it just comes down to Sansa hate.

I wonder if Jonsas have ever considered that not all who think Jonsa is implausible are Dany fans/Jonerys/or Jonarya shippers, or believe in a happy ending for these characters or any characters or these couples or any couples and just think Jonsa is a desperate reaching crackship

Why is Jonsa essential to Sansa having a happy outcome? And why is it plausible Sansa (especially only Sansa or only the approved Starks) get a happy-ending Disney-esque storyline?

Jonsas, we don't need assumptions. Your posts speak for themselves. And speaking of...

Only to be combatted by the terrible, disapproving, biased fandom who obviously are only doing so because they hate Sansa... :(

Gee, I wonder why Jonsa isn't accepted by the fandom :)

A bit of a laugh with a bigger side of intellectual dishonesty

Now who would have a problem with this?!

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

The thing about blatant lies, intellectual dishonesty, and deliberate misrepresentation for the most superficial of reasons with no respect for accuracy or the canon material (in this case, the show's scripts) is that they get to a place just under my throat and form this pressure where I just want to topple a dresser onto something loud and exceptionally glassware.

So with that said, let's look at some comments from the Jonsa community!

Oh great, now we know where this is going.

AND GUYS:

And this next Jonsa is...

Neither this Jonsa or these Jonsa posters can figure out why Jonerys fans and others would have a problem with this gifset that is deliberately misrepresenting the Jonerys ship or their favourite characters? Or why people would have a problem with Pol!Jon, a wholly misogynistic, sexist, prejudiced, backwards theory that makes no narrative or strategic sense? A theory that turns Dany into an evil bimbo and Jon into the new Littlefinger while Sansa stays perfectly perfect in every way? Neither view or direction was supported on the show, yet the latest Jonsa has the boldness to use the words 'canon' in connection with this gifset. "Canon moments" the gif maker is deliberately misrepresenting and presenting as one of Jon's false smiles -- as if Dany is Littlefinger or Ramsay to Jon. Oh, how Jonsas only wish... However! :) I can answer the latest Jonsa's questions -- which delightfully seem to be written as if they are already in defence of this Jonsa contextualization:

Why would Jon be so attached to an uncle and grandfather he never met? In contrast, Jon has met and gotten to know Dany (who is his paternal aunt btw) over the course of at least several months to about a year. Depending on how much time he's spent with Dany, Jon may know her better than Sansa given Jon and Sansa didn't know each other well until they reconnected in season 6.

Why would Jon smirk in defiance as the party who crucially needs help and needs help ASAP? Is the vanity of the North really that important? (And yeah, I will call it vanity because at this point, fucking independence <<<<<<<<< ice apocalypse)

Why would Jon be uncomfortable with Dany's affection? Canonically, he returned her affection -- in the 7x05 goodbye scene, Jon is trying to focus on his mission to destroy the Night King and he's pushing his feelings away (ie. "There's no time for [romance]"). In the 7x07 scene, Jon and Dany are having one of those rare rare rare happy moments on Game of Thrones while commiserating over their circumstances.

Why would Jon smile over being unable to get Dany to forget about Cersei rather than a shared gallows-humour joke between himself and Dany?

Additionally, why is Sansa allowed to be worried about Cersei in 7x01 and criticize Jon for being "too focused on the Night King", but Dany can't still be worried about Cersei even though Dany is the one who is in active war with Cersei?

Lastly, why can't Jonsas just keep their hands to themselves and to their ship?

This is why I hate Jonsas.

HOUSE TARGARYEN by Denis Maznev

POL JON RIDDLES

HELP ME OUT GUYS

Riddle #1: IT'S GREED AND TYRANNY WHEN DANY WANTS TO TAKE BACK HER FAMILY'S DYNASTY but it's righteous and right and empowering when the Starks (Sansa) want to take back the North. THE TARGARYENS ARE THE REAL COLONIZERS NO DOUBLE STANDARDS HERE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Riddle #2: Dany's love is cheap compared to her greed for the Iron Throne!!!11

...So why does Jon need to sexually use, abuse, manipulate, and fake his love for the power crazed Dany ala Pol!Jon to steal her armies and dragons if her worthless love is so cheap then...? It's not like sex is going to help out Jon's lacking martial forces much or add sense to the non-sensical Pol!Jon. Or what, does that not fulfill the Jonsa teen scene dreams of sweet sweet betrayal for thy true love Sansa?

Riddle #3:

"It's preposterous to think Jon, who has always tried to do the right thing, would betray(or even kill) his aunt just for shits and giggles."

So what is Jon, Jonsas? An uber asshole who is Sansa's personal garbage disposal? And will callously abuse, use, and manipulate a rape victim? Or does he have a conscience? Because yeah, I think the the two are mutually exclusive here. How does a decent person with a conscience (who Jon is supposed to be) do this to... anyone? Why would Jon do this to Dany? What has Dany done to warrant this? Conquer? Robb Stark, Jon's brother and best friend. Stannis Baratheon, the claimant Jon supported in ADWD. The Young Dragon, Jon's idol. How dare Dany want to take back her family's dynasty! Just like the Starks!! All the Northern houses love the Starks and want them back! (Except the ones who don't) The Skagosi too!! (Except they keep rebelling when the Starks try to force them to submit...) But seriously, since when does Jon hate Targaryen conquests? Or... Targaryens? But I digress, let's look at Pol!Jon. In contrast, Pol!Jon hates the young conquerer Dany! How dare Dany conquest!! Pol!Jon doesn't idolize the Dorne-invading dragon-riding Young Dragon!! Eww!!! But here's the thing: nothing about Pol!Jon makes Jon the hero as this particular Jonsa likes to argue. Everything makes him the asshole -- from every angle. Jon can't be a hero performing 100% villainous, unnecessary, and stupid stupid actions all so he can dispose of one girl (Dany) so he can go ahead and marry another girl (Sansa) who looked down on him in childhood for wholly classist reasons. (No no, no misogyny here!) Everything Jon does in this scenario justifies Dany (or Dany's supporters) going to war against him -- and the North -- because it's treason. How can Jon realistically get away with that. How would GRRM let Jon realistically get away with that. For Jonsa?

It doesn't matter how much of an asshole you are dying for Dany to be, it won't make Pol!Jon any less of an asshole in his characterization or actions toward Dany.

And if Pol!Jon hates Dany so much that he's willing to abuse, use, and callously exploit a rape victim when her love for him is apparently so "cheap" (because apparently, these are your versions of them), it seems like he is doing extreme stuff for shits and giggles -- and to make the situation far far worse (handing Dany a reason to go to war against the North, intentions to start another civil war despite multiple wars going on and the North's lacking resources, making an enemy of a powerful queen and during a time of probable desperation...).

I'd call that psychotic. (On another note, I'm a Jon stan but... uh, there are times in ASOIAF when Jon does not do quite the right thing...)

I know Aegony has been theorized as endgame ship for a reason but imo those are the same people who have grossly mischaracterized something about Dany and Jon.

The irony.

They are the same ones who have denied Dark Dany and insist how her greed for the IT was actually just her doing her duty as the last Targ and that Sansa was the power hungry one actually.

Hilariously, this happened in the same show Jonsa never became close to canon (not matter what Jonsa conspiracy theories say), the same show in which Sansa kept risking the life of her "beloved" brother Jon and betrayed him multiple times (funny, Dany never did that...), and the same show of which GRRM has repeatedly said his ending would be different. Oops :) And Jonsas wonder why the fandom has a problem with them.