As A Proshipper, What's The One Thing You Can't Personally Abide By In Fiction? For Whatever Reason.

As a proshipper, what's the one thing you can't personally abide by in fiction? For whatever reason.

Mine is het-bending M/M or F/F ships. Or turning one character FTM in a very, very thinly veiled attempt to het-bend.

Its to the point where I'll usually send fics I'm suspicious of to a friend to "pussy proofread."

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I am actually begging some people to just let some spaces exist untouched by real-world issues and horrors.

Like I've lost count of the amount of times peaceful game or fandom servers have been ruined by people stampeding in with political rants, bitching about world issues, demanding internal activism, demanding vent channels so they can whine about their shitty parents, ect.

Like. Respectfully. Not every single space has to be inclusive of and welcoming of outside topics. The real world sucks. We don't needed to be reminded of that absolutely everywhere.

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okay, so- this is coming from someone who really hasn't engaged in fandom discourse, especially regarding shipping and such. I dearly hope this doesn't come across as bait or troll, I'm genuinely curious and want to learn. apologies for the possibly-dumb question, but I really just need to ask-

what is proshipping? and what are 'antis'?

you know how it is, when you ask around you always get a biased answer one way or another. "proshippers are pedos" "proshippers all condone incest" "proship Bad and if you interact You Are Bad" (i think these are 'anti' points of view? am i using that term right? that's the rhetoric ive mainly heard). but despite all of that, i don't know if ive ever actually gotten a straight answer as to just.. what it factually is. because it doesn't feel like the sort of thing that you can boil down to insults or accusations or whatnot. it's all just very confusing to me, especially because i come from a place that essentially just told me to avoid like the plague and never look back. sorry, this became a bit of a ramble, lol. thank you so much in advance, i hope i'm not being a bother or insulting with this ^^;

The modern term; 'proship' (s.a; 'proshipping' and 'profiction') is an evolution of an earlier fandom acronym known as: 'SALS.'

Ship And Let Ship

SALS was one of the earliest fandom adoptions and interpretations of the concept of not bullying others for what they shipped or their fandom interests, and not trying to control or dictate what was "allowed" to be shipped or enjoyed. The most notable origin of SALS was during the early years of accessible fandom via Star Trek, and the present homophobia and misogyny in a largely male-dominated community.

As woman became more involved in fandom spaces, the presence of 'other' ships and pairings began to increase. M/M, F/F that wasn't purely for sexual gratification, and M/O and F/O (where 'O' is Other) pairings were popular amongst women, much as they still are today.

Not only did the presence of women in a "male space" receive a not insignificantly negative reaction, so too did them filling the fandom space with their shipping content. Now; sexism and misogyny and homophobia were not entirely to blame. Again as is still very much present today, people simply Did Not Like Certain Ships or Characters. And as they still do today, they'd spread hate about them and to the people who did enjoy them.

Thus: the birth of SALS.

(In other words: I like what I like and it has fuck all to do with you. Shut up and move on.)

Back then, SALS was mostly contained to just that. Ships and characters. Since back in that era 'taboo topics' and 'sexual content' were still pretty covert, people weren't exactly arguing the merits of incest in public forums and at conventions.

However, as all things do, the internet evolved. Society evolved. Media evolved. And so too did 'SALS' evolve in keeping with the new culture and subjects present in fandom spaces.

Suddenly it wasn't just ships and characters to be advocated for. It was themes. Subjects. Kinks. Plots. The more things people found to enjoy, so too did the more things people found to hate.

'Proship' is actually grammatically pro-ship. As in; in support of shipping. This is why I always state that the modern conceptions of proshipping would more accurately be coined profiction. It is no longer just about ships, but fiction as a whole.

However; the core value and sole inherent point of being proship, SALS, profiction and so forth remains exactly the same:

[I/We] believe you have no right to harm others over the [ship/content] they create or consume and [I/we] do not have the right to dictate what is or is not allowed in fandom spaces.

That's it. Don't harass people for what they enjoy fictionally. Don't try to force them into not enjoying or being able to enjoy it.

Of course, the modern adaption varies wildly in terms of 'additional values' thanks to the evolution of the term and what it can encompass. However, there is certainly no obligation to:

Create or consume content you are uncomfortable with.

Create or consume content regarded as 'taboo' or 'triggering.' Such as incest.

Be involved with any aforementioned content beyond turning a blind eye if its not your thing.

Inherently, anyone who says they're 'neutral' on the matter but firmly believes in minding their own business is just a proshipper refusing to use the label if you're taking the term solely at its core value.

In terms of 'antis' they're just the antithesis of the above. Antis are people who generally believe that fiction is irrevocably tied in with who you are, what you believe/condone, and that real-life limitations and values should also apply to fiction.

Although, its is heavy debated and it wildly varies per individual to the degree this is taken.

(E.g: some 'antis' believe you should only write rape fic if you are a victim using it as catharsis or education. Other 'antis' believe there's absolutely no excuse or reason to write rape fic at all.)

Antis typically believe that enjoyment or being invested in content which is regarded as harmful or illegal in real life is morally unsound and reflects that you're a bad or morally unsound person.

Although I disagree, I can honestly say in some aspects I do understand this reasoning. I don't agree, but I do understand why people may come to that conclusion.

As with proshippers, antis vary from people who simply ignore and block content they don't agree with to radicals.

'Anti' is again a prefix. Although modern adoption of the term uses it as a singular signifier, it would grammatically be anti-[fandom], anti-[character], ect. As was commonly used in the past.

The rhetoric that all proshippers are pedophiles or support incest is common-spread and effective 'anti' propaganda. Similar to how so many people believe 'proship' inherently signifies that you must create and/or consume taboo or darker content.

It doesn't.

¹ Proship may also be accurately termed as simply: 'anti-harassment.' ² Its important to note the 'definition' of these terms may vary wildly depending on the individual. However, detailed above is the most historical use and evolution of the terms and their definitions.

I have a feeling what I'm about to say is really going to upset you.

(Because the answer is yes.)

But in any case; you do not get to tell the Archive what is and is not allowed to be on there. It tells you. Its not Wattpad. Its not a cutesy little social media platform or literature site like GoodReads.

Its an Archive. By using it, you're consenting to existing in the same space as "that stuff."

Its kind of like.... Lets say going to a museum. When you're looking at mummies and shrunken heads and bones, you're looking at dead people.

You don't get to go the museum and demand they remove the dead people because its uncomfortable and upsetting to you, right? Museums showcase history. When you go to a museum you're consenting to seeing dead things. Dead people.

AO3 is the same. Its an Archive. It was created because censorship is impossible to control. There's a saying that censorship is a beast of insatiable hunger that will consume everything, and its because its true.

Wattpad, for example. Wattpad's rules state no pedophillic content. Which is fine, right? You think its fine.

Until people push for any content involving "underage appearing" characters and people to be removed because its (not) pedophilia.

Until people push for queer content involving twinks to be removed because its (not) pedophilia.

Until minors writing fanfiction about other minors get banned for (not) being pedophiles.

Just recently Wattpad underwent yet another purge where thousands of works were removed for "violating terms" that the content wasn't even close to violating. It was just "too close" for their business partners and the people giving them money and the bigots banding together to apply pressure because that's a tactic that has worked for them in the past.

The Archive does not bend to such pressure. It will not, and it cannot. And it shouldn't.

You can't pick and choose with censorship. You can't control it. You can't stop other people taking a rule you made and twisting it and breaking it apart and using it against content you had no intention of affecting.

Especially in an era where the word 'pedophilia' has been watered down and butchered into an unrecognisable version of its true purpose. 16 & 18 is considered pedophilia by some. 21 & 40 is pedophilia to some.

How can you control what is encompassed as 'pedophilia' if people can't even agree on the definition?

But also;

AO3 gives you a multitude of ways to avoid that content. If you're not using them, that's a user fault. If someone hasn't properly used the Archive warnings, you can report it so its corrected. But AO3 can't help you if you're choosing not to apply filters and properly curate your searches.

I hope this doesn't come across as an attack, because it isn't. I know for a lot of people it can be hard to wrap your head around the entire legal and societal mess that encompasses why AO3 exists in the state that it does. But I can promise you that AO3 is one of the last standing pillars against what would effectively destroy fan-made literature and content as we know it.

I suggest research into the current legal mess that is forced censorship on sites like Tumblr, OnlyFans, Patreon, even in places like schools and community clubs.

Censorship is not (always) a good thing. Everyone is all too happy to push for things they dislike to be removed until someone else is pushing for something they do like to be removed.

"Why can't the freaks on AO3 just go and make a site for all the gross stuff and leave AO3 alone."

Because AO3 is that site. Because AO3 was that site long before you decided AO3 was better than the sites you bullied us off of before, and I can promise you if someone somehow comes up with a fanfic site you like better specifically for the 'gross stuff' you'll try to bully us off that too so you can benefit from it.

AO3's specific core purpose is to preserve fanfiction, yes, but it was also instigated as a host site for the fanfiction that kept getting yeeted off other platforms like Wattpad. Its designed to preserve all fanfiction, not just the fanfiction you, personally, think is 'allowed' to be written.

AO3 is the site for all the gross stuff the freaks make. We've been there just as long as you. We've been funding it just as long as you have. AO3 has specifically said you have a place here. The timeline was literally:

Wattpad/FF.net/LiveJournal purge fanfics > AO3 is born > The people who's fics got purged moved over to AO3 > AO3 gains popularity as the best functioning site > The people who pushed for the fics to be purged off Wattpad move to AO3 > The same people try to push for AO3 to purge fics.

AO3's source coding is open-access. You go make a polished, strict, rigid site where nothing 'icky' is allowed. You go make a site where you can control what is hosted. We already have our space.

^ This is what stupidity and ignorance sounds like! With a little moral parading for flavor, too.

I am actually begging some people to just let some spaces exist untouched by real-world issues and horrors.

Like I've lost count of the amount of times peaceful game or fandom servers have been ruined by people stampeding in with political rants, bitching about world issues, demanding internal activism, demanding vent channels so they can whine about their shitty parents, ect.

Like. Respectfully. Not every single space has to be inclusive of and welcoming of outside topics. The real world sucks. We don't needed to be reminded of that absolutely everywhere.