Not Discourse - Tumblr Posts
okay, so- this is coming from someone who really hasn't engaged in fandom discourse, especially regarding shipping and such. I dearly hope this doesn't come across as bait or troll, I'm genuinely curious and want to learn. apologies for the possibly-dumb question, but I really just need to ask-
what is proshipping? and what are 'antis'?
you know how it is, when you ask around you always get a biased answer one way or another. "proshippers are pedos" "proshippers all condone incest" "proship Bad and if you interact You Are Bad" (i think these are 'anti' points of view? am i using that term right? that's the rhetoric ive mainly heard). but despite all of that, i don't know if ive ever actually gotten a straight answer as to just.. what it factually is. because it doesn't feel like the sort of thing that you can boil down to insults or accusations or whatnot. it's all just very confusing to me, especially because i come from a place that essentially just told me to avoid like the plague and never look back. sorry, this became a bit of a ramble, lol. thank you so much in advance, i hope i'm not being a bother or insulting with this ^^;
The modern term; 'proship' (s.a; 'proshipping' and 'profiction') is an evolution of an earlier fandom acronym known as: 'SALS.'
Ship And Let Ship
SALS was one of the earliest fandom adoptions and interpretations of the concept of not bullying others for what they shipped or their fandom interests, and not trying to control or dictate what was "allowed" to be shipped or enjoyed. The most notable origin of SALS was during the early years of accessible fandom via Star Trek, and the present homophobia and misogyny in a largely male-dominated community.
As woman became more involved in fandom spaces, the presence of 'other' ships and pairings began to increase. M/M, F/F that wasn't purely for sexual gratification, and M/O and F/O (where 'O' is Other) pairings were popular amongst women, much as they still are today.
Not only did the presence of women in a "male space" receive a not insignificantly negative reaction, so too did them filling the fandom space with their shipping content. Now; sexism and misogyny and homophobia were not entirely to blame. Again as is still very much present today, people simply Did Not Like Certain Ships or Characters. And as they still do today, they'd spread hate about them and to the people who did enjoy them.
Thus: the birth of SALS.
(In other words: I like what I like and it has fuck all to do with you. Shut up and move on.)
Back then, SALS was mostly contained to just that. Ships and characters. Since back in that era 'taboo topics' and 'sexual content' were still pretty covert, people weren't exactly arguing the merits of incest in public forums and at conventions.
However, as all things do, the internet evolved. Society evolved. Media evolved. And so too did 'SALS' evolve in keeping with the new culture and subjects present in fandom spaces.
Suddenly it wasn't just ships and characters to be advocated for. It was themes. Subjects. Kinks. Plots. The more things people found to enjoy, so too did the more things people found to hate.
'Proship' is actually grammatically pro-ship. As in; in support of shipping. This is why I always state that the modern conceptions of proshipping would more accurately be coined profiction. It is no longer just about ships, but fiction as a whole.
However; the core value and sole inherent point of being proship, SALS, profiction and so forth remains exactly the same:
[I/We] believe you have no right to harm others over the [ship/content] they create or consume and [I/we] do not have the right to dictate what is or is not allowed in fandom spaces.
That's it. Don't harass people for what they enjoy fictionally. Don't try to force them into not enjoying or being able to enjoy it.
Of course, the modern adaption varies wildly in terms of 'additional values' thanks to the evolution of the term and what it can encompass. However, there is certainly no obligation to:
Create or consume content you are uncomfortable with.
Create or consume content regarded as 'taboo' or 'triggering.' Such as incest.
Be involved with any aforementioned content beyond turning a blind eye if its not your thing.
Inherently, anyone who says they're 'neutral' on the matter but firmly believes in minding their own business is just a proshipper refusing to use the label if you're taking the term solely at its core value.
In terms of 'antis' they're just the antithesis of the above. Antis are people who generally believe that fiction is irrevocably tied in with who you are, what you believe/condone, and that real-life limitations and values should also apply to fiction.
Although, its is heavy debated and it wildly varies per individual to the degree this is taken.
(E.g: some 'antis' believe you should only write rape fic if you are a victim using it as catharsis or education. Other 'antis' believe there's absolutely no excuse or reason to write rape fic at all.)
Antis typically believe that enjoyment or being invested in content which is regarded as harmful or illegal in real life is morally unsound and reflects that you're a bad or morally unsound person.
Although I disagree, I can honestly say in some aspects I do understand this reasoning. I don't agree, but I do understand why people may come to that conclusion.
As with proshippers, antis vary from people who simply ignore and block content they don't agree with to radicals.
'Anti' is again a prefix. Although modern adoption of the term uses it as a singular signifier, it would grammatically be anti-[fandom], anti-[character], ect. As was commonly used in the past.
The rhetoric that all proshippers are pedophiles or support incest is common-spread and effective 'anti' propaganda. Similar to how so many people believe 'proship' inherently signifies that you must create and/or consume taboo or darker content.
It doesn't.
¹ Proship may also be accurately termed as simply: 'anti-harassment.' ² Its important to note the 'definition' of these terms may vary wildly depending on the individual. However, detailed above is the most historical use and evolution of the terms and their definitions.
Muah💕 hope your day is going well
I found out today I'm allergic to my new sunscreen, so there's that, but otherwise its a handy-dandy day.
I laughed my ass off at that Victim Card, thank you for that, and thank u for giving me another account to block (since a quick look at the "victim's" blog shows they're a radfem and clearly (not) pleasant to have at parties)
That's actually something I've noticed here on Tumblr lately.
Radfems, homophobes, ect will have a blog that is absolutely balls to the wall activism for hot current issues as a means of protection and diversion from their beliefs.
It gives them a counterpoint and a defense argument against you.
"I can't be a bad person, look at what I'm doing for Gaza!" "How could you accuse me of being a bad person? I'm an activist for Ukraine! You must be a pro-Russian war supporter!"
Its something I think we need to be cautious of going forwards.
I saw your post about loving to read stories of reformed people. Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead: The Frank Meeink Story as Told to Jody M. Roy, Ph.D is about just that. It's extremely rough in some parts (both what people do to the author and what he does to others).
It's amazing at showing how people end up in hate groups and how as a society we can prevent it. The author now does anti nazi work all over the US.
If anyone has any other recommendations for videos, movies, literature, ect about personal reformation and growth, please feel free to share them.
Agree or disagree: a lot of people seem to be more concerned about looking like an activist who's doing activism rather than about actually helping the people who need help?
Nuanced agree.
I do think that for a lot of people there's a significant concern about how they're perceived by their peers, and that it fuels a lot of misguided "activism" but this stems from fear rather than something like laziness, deliberate manipulation, ect.
It ties into what I talked about on another post where people also place misguided responsibility and demands on people they deem as "capable" or "obligated." And where some people are also just point blank dickheads about moral signalling and knighting.
If you're constantly facing harassment and pressure to be seen as doing X, pretty soon you're going to get overwhelmed and you're going to try to prevent it by doing X in an overly visible, performative manner. You're going to want to stop people coming after you by visibly waving a neon sign saying "I'VE DONE THIS THING!"
We saw it with the social media blackouts. We saw it with spamming Free Palestine and Palestine flags. We saw it with the BLM logo. We see it with Facebook profile banners.
Being Known As Not A Bad Person becomes almost tantamount to actually not being a bad person.
But then, of course, you've also got the other side of the coin where there's people are genuinely do just want the recognition and clout of being deemed as an activist and a good person over actually wanting to be an activist and good person.
(Like that female influencer who was caught pretending to pick up trash, and the man who goes around shoving a camera in homeless people's faces and forcing them to perform for his audience if they want help.)
I think if we as a society were less concerned with forcing people to prove to us that they're not bad people and that they're Actually Doing Something, a lot more would actually get done.
hey, same person who sent in the ask about pro-ship and 'anti' definitions and such -
(sorry if this is incomprehensible i'm tail end of an all-nighter and my brain is fried lol) thank you, reading through it makes a lot of things make sense, and honestly, I definitely do find myself on the 'neutral' or therefore pro-ship side (as it appears to be), or just that "live and let live" idea. writing a fic about an abusive relationship doesn't make you an abuser or an awful person, and its always been so strange to me how people will say that 'writing it means you are it', to put it loosely. i have my own personal limits in how I like to consume and portray these things, but i literally have zero qualms if someone else's limits and tastes are different than mine because 1) not my business 2) nobody's holding a gun to me head to make me consume their content 3) doesn't mean they're an awful person who ought to be arrested or however some people make it out to be. if someone writes a rape fic that's between them, their audience and the google doc it was written on. it also kinds ties in to the whole idea of censorship and my opinions on it for me, with how vague some people seem to be about it - if you're calling to ban all fics that "romanticize abuse", that itself can be abused to take down the works of queer or disabled people, people who are open about different types of relationships, etc etc. what i'm trying to say is if you try to ban any fic like that, you're probably also going to ban fics of people in poly relationships, or who have an unusual kink that you don't like, because it's vague enough to be able to suppress people. am i making sense here? probably not, but I do hope you get what I'm saying here, sincerest apologies for my incessant rambling.. it's just been a long, long time since I've been able to say these views that I hold (I don't think I ever have, actually. Not to this extent anyway).
thank you, thank you very much. definitely going to be sticking around this blog for a while, I think ^^
What you've described is effectively being pro-ship. However, there's no obligation to use labels. SALS is still a somewhat popular acronym and there is also profiction, which a lot of people are more comfortable with using to describe how they relate to fiction vs reality. Fandom spaces are all down to the individual.
I'm glad I could help you better your understanding, give you a space to speak openly, and I never mind rambling or long messages.
I am so stupid because I'm out here like "I don't know why the antis in my fandom don't like me, I do not do anything that bad" and then my followers jumpscare me by reminding me of my multiple graphic kink fics that I forgot about...
Graphic kink fics are also not bad.
But also, there is a long, long list of reasons why antis don't like people. Often so extensive that most of them don't even like other antis.
Block them, report any harassment you receive, and continue to have a long and happy existence in fandom spaces while they froth at the mouth and spend their time stewing in rancid negativity.
someone was sharing info on how to keep yourself and also kids in general safe online, their sources came from credible orgs like RAINN and an anti reblogged the post and went “that’s great and all but I won’t share because this is proshipper rhetoric”
This is just kind of sad. They really think information about online safety is wrong
The ability and right to choose is not exclusive to you.
If you think abortions are tantamount to murder, do not get one. But that is your choice. Other people have the ability and right to choose otherwise.
If you do not like piercings and tattoos, do not get them. But other people have the ability and right to decide what to do to their own bodies.
If you want to believe in a higher guiding authority and follow regulations by which to live under a religion, that is your choice. But other people are not obligated to comply with the regulations you have imposed upon yourself. Other people have the ability and right to choose how to live.
The ability and right to choose is for ourselves. It gives us the right to say I have made this choice for myself. Not I have made this choice and everyone else must comply.
"Businesses like to talk about the concept of a closed loop or circular economy, but often they’re trying to close small loops. Releaf Paper takes dead leaves from city trees and turns them into paper for bags, office supplies, and more—which is to say they are striving to close one heck of a big loop.
How big? Six billion trees are cut down every year for paper products according to the WWF, producing everything from toilet paper to Amazon boxes to the latest best-selling novels. Meanwhile, the average city produces 8,000 metric tons of leaves every year which clog gutters and sewers, and have to be collected, composted, burned, or dumped in landfills.
In other words, huge supply and huge demand, but Releaf Paper is making cracking progress. They already produce 3 million paper carrier bags per year from 5,000 metric tons of leaves from their headquarters in Paris.
Joining forces with landscapers in sites across Europe, thousands of tonnes of leaves arrive at their facility where a low-water, zero-sulfur/chlorine production process sees the company create paper with much smaller water and carbon footprints...
“In a city, it’s a green waste that should be collected. Really, it’s a good solution because we are keeping the balance—we get fiber for making paper and return lignin as a semi-fertilizer for the cities to fertilize the gardens or the trees. So it’s like a win-win model,” [Valentyn] Frechka, co-founder and CTO of Releaf Paper, told Euronews.
Releaf is already selling products to LVMH, BNP Paribas, Logitech, Samsung, and various other big companies. In the coming years, Frechka and Sobolenka also plan to further increase their production capacity by opening more plants in other countries. If the process is cost-efficient, there’s no reason there shouldn’t be a paper mill of this kind in every city.
“We want to expand this idea all around the world. At the end, our vision is that the technology of making paper from fallen leaves should be accessible on all continents,” Sobolenka notes, according to ZME Science."
-via Goodd News Network, August 15, 2024
Skip Google for Research
As Google has worked to overtake the internet, its search algorithm has not just gotten worse. It has been designed to prioritize advertisers and popular pages often times excluding pages and content that better matches your search terms
As a writer in need of information for my stories, I find this unacceptable. As a proponent of availability of information so the populace can actually educate itself, it is unforgivable.
Below is a concise list of useful research sites compiled by Edward Clark over on Facebook. I was familiar with some, but not all of these.
⁂
Google is so powerful that it “hides” other search systems from us. We just don’t know the existence of most of them. Meanwhile, there are still a huge number of excellent searchers in the world who specialize in books, science, other smart information. Keep a list of sites you never heard of.
www.refseek.com - Academic Resource Search. More than a billion sources: encyclopedia, monographies, magazines.
www.worldcat.org - a search for the contents of 20 thousand worldwide libraries. Find out where lies the nearest rare book you need.
https://link.springer.com - access to more than 10 million scientific documents: books, articles, research protocols.
www.bioline.org.br is a library of scientific bioscience journals published in developing countries.
http://repec.org - volunteers from 102 countries have collected almost 4 million publications on economics and related science.
www.science.gov is an American state search engine on 2200+ scientific sites. More than 200 million articles are indexed.
www.pdfdrive.com is the largest website for free download of books in PDF format. Claiming over 225 million names.
www.base-search.net is one of the most powerful researches on academic studies texts. More than 100 million scientific documents, 70% of them are free
why is privacy so eroded. I get treated like a nutcase if I say no, I don't want strange companies taking pictures of my home and putting them online for maps or whatever. I don't want to be in the background of your tiktok, and I think it's weirder for you to assume I'm okay with it than it is for me to politely ask you to refilm it so my face isn't in the frame. I don't enjoy handing my employer a list of every online account I have and feeling under surveillance when I'm just shit posting or sharing pictures of my cats or garden harvest. I don't want to hear your private calls on speaker on the bus, esp when the person on the line doesn't know you're broadcasting their words to strangers. I don't want an algorithm guessing what will piss me off the most so I spend more time online, engaging with shit I don't want to see or hear out of outrage. I don't want any of this. it's total ass.
Cripple is a slur. Please don't use it if you're able bodied
I have repeatedly stated that I am disabled.
apdkjad you able bodied person cant use that its a slur >:( im disabled has the same energy as that person who got an anon about ship drama because their whole ass non white name resembled a ship name like guys do some research please im begging you
Its literally just this.
The cool thing about being pro ship is what I call "bonus ships." Ships that I am barely interested in, do nothing for me, hell, one of them makes me ask myself "why". But! My friends are into these ships. And even tho I'm not interested or invested, I will stumble across content and bring it right back to my friends. Saw a thing you like! Here you go. Maybe a song or a piece of art that reminded me of the thing, too.
This does nothing for me, but it works for your ship, so I brought it to you. Bonus ships. I just think it's a nice thing to do for your friends.
Me and my friends have a very similar set up. We both have a lot of interests that don't strictly overlap but because we share things so routinely we'll regularly see things that are more tailored toward the other person (yay for the internet spying on your every move!)
We call it the Shipping Service, pun intended.
What’s your opinion on c.ai roleplay, ai art and generative ai in general?
My opinion is that AI should make peoples' lives easier, rather than stealing peoples' creations and spewing out butchered replicas so it can "replace them."
All current creative accessible AI is modelled on the stolen content of hundreds of thousands of people. Character AI? Stolen fanfiction. ChatGPT? Stolen essays, novels, fanfiction, images. Generative AI? Same thing.
And once its in, its impossible to remove entirely. And the techbros making tens of thousands off your stolen content don't want to remove it anyway. When Glaze first came out they threw fits and tried to get Glaze legally destroyed so they could keep stealing and profiting off of content theft.
And its so fucking easy for people to mine content off of websites and steal your content without you ever even knowing! And if or when you do find out, its too late. Your content is part of that code forever. Its been absorbed, butchered, regurgitated.
AI in creative spaces does have a place, but it needs to be so, so carefully controlled and used. The widespread ability to just mangle together other people's creations and claim ownership of whatever it churns out is... Horrifying at best.
I vomit every time I see "made with ChatGPT!" on AO3.
What is "comship" and "safeship?"
(I saw an anti tag their anti ship post with #safeship which doesn't make sense to me but I was afraid to ask them lmao)
Comship and safeship both have multiple meanings and modern usage.
"Comship" is shorthand for "complex ship." This is being used by both antis and proshippers but is currently being hailed as an "alternative to proship" by most people.
"Comship" is also shorthand for "comfort ship," although you may sometimes see it spelt as "comfship."
"Safe ship" is another term for "comfort ship." That one pairing which is just homey, always hits the feel good spot, ect.
*Some antis are using "safeship" as a way to mark their account as "safe for shipping" excluding proship or questionable/dark content. So essentially a place that is "safe" to "ship normally."
Seeing them being used together is definitely a contradiction; but its likely they were just using the tags for exposure and to generate interaction. Its a common tactic used by both proshippers and anti-shippers.
(For example if I make a post which is relative to both anti shipping and proshipping, and/or I want discussion from both sides, I will use both the anti-ship tag and the proship tag.)
*Some proshippers also use #shippingsafe or #safeshipper to indicate they are a "shipping safe space."
tumblr activists stop accusing your posts of racism & privilege challenge
Level: Impossible.
I had to make my main ship in a rp server that I just found out being run by antis being both 20 years old
I only staying in the server because: A. Keeping an eye if the mods & owner decided to gaslight everyone into saying that all proshippers are pedophiles (& other bs) again, and B. It's the only good rp server in the fandom in discord
You could always create a server yourself, although that does come with a lot of responsibility which I do not suggest taking on without preparation and certainty that its something you want to do presumably for the long term.
Unfortunately fandoms often fall victim to having one or a small, select few options for suitable or dominating spaces within them. It can be hard to dig the fandom out of that hole and introduce/expand/improve upon the options available.
In terms of the gaslighting, there are plenty of resources available on the true nature of proshipping and its history if you do want to offer alternative information, although you should be aware countering their argument will likely result in you getting banned from the space.
hi, sorry i'm looking for help w an ao3 thing and the subreddit is closed and you seem fairly knowledgeable so hopefully you don't mind me putting this in your askbox haha
is there a way to search for fics with relationships involving a certain character? obviously you can filter for specific relationships, but if you don't particularly care *what* the pairing is as long as it has character x in it, is there a way to do that?
my problem is i'm stuck in ensemble character hell, and so often fics tagged with that character feature them only in the background. whereas (generally) if a character is tagged in a relationship then it's much more likely that they'll be in the main focus.
so is there a search function that will turn up fics tagged x/y AND x&y AND x/y/z and so on?
This Reddit thread may be of some use to you.
Currently there is no surefire way to search specifically for all ship options involving one character at once, but there are several ways you can somewhat navigate the search function in order to achieve something similar. There are some instructions for this on the thread, but there is also the AO3 Hidden Search Operator Cheatsheet.