Red Robin 2009 - Tumblr Posts
I think it would have been hilarious if Tim got stuck in the Lazarus pit when he was stabbed in Red Robin (2009) and was just normal after. Like yeah, Jason was a drama queen murderer when he came back, but Tim is normal. Honestly would be hilarious if all his friends knew but not the bats.
tim drake being morally grey is so funny to me my man blew up every single league of assassins base he could find in their databases and probably killed and/or injured hundreds of people and he just. doesn’t think about. no acknowledgement, he said “yeah but tam surviving was the most important thing at the time, and me surviving was a preferable second. the rest wasn’t my problem.”
Tam really watched Tim throughout his Red Robin era and thought to herself hmm I can make him worse. Iconic behavior, nobody does it like her.
Tam that man is objectively insane
A bit of dejavu from the new Batman #131. Bruce has been zapped away (again) and Tim isn't taking it well (again).
The biggest difference this time is that Dick believes Tim.
But, of course, things are never that simple.
In many ways this is a callback not only to when Tim became Red Robin but all the way back to the why he became Robin in the first place. He sees that Bruce is broken on a fundamental level. The man is in a self-destructive spiral that Tim is determined to stop.
I have to wonder, though. Is this Tim recomitting himself to the ideal that "Batman needs a Robin" or will he finally understand what Dick has been trying to tell him (nobody but Bruce can fix Bruce)? This might be the first steps of Tim moving to a new identity. I guess only time will tell.
Tim tries to bond with Damaian by going to an art museum and immediately gets arrested as alvin draper
You know what? I’m not picking a side in this because I get where each of these characters is coming from. None of them are right and none of them are wrong. Tim has had his entire life burned down again, so many people he loved are dead, and it feels like this is salt in the wound, that he’s being stripped of Robin when he needs it most. Damian is a child who is saying viciously hurtful things, but he thinks he has to fight for his place in anything, he thinks he has to destroy anyone who might come for what he has, he has to destroy Drake to secure a place for himself, because that’s what he’s been taught. Dick is the only person who has shown him anything stable in this place, of course he’s going to fight with everything he has, he’ll cut open anyone who comes at him, because that’s what’s been hammered into him since he was born. And Dick’s coming at this from his own experiences–he says right there that Tim is his ally, his equal, Dick’s not his mentor. Dick is asking for someone to help him, not be someone else he has to take care of, because when is it Dick’s turn to mourn his father’s loss, too? When is it Dick’s turn to mourn that he’s been forced to put on the cape and cowl that he hates wearing? When is it Dick’s turn to have someone acknowledge that he had to give up his entire life to pick up Bruce’s? And what is he supposed to do, when he’s trying to hold everything together because everyone else is pulling things apart? Tim’s at the age (and possibly older) than when Dick knew he himself needed to become his own person, to step up into a role that was uniquely his–and I don’t think he’s wrong about Tim being ready for that, either. Tim is traveling around the world as Red Robin here, he’s doing his own thing, he’s doing his own investigations, Tim is ready to be his own superhero, not the role of Robin. Tim’s holding onto this for what feels like less because he needs the role of Robin specifically, Batman’s protege, and more because he wants to hold onto something familiar. I keep thinking of that scene in Adventure Comics where he tells Kon about how he tried to clone him, that he knew it wouldn’t be his Kon, but at least it would have been something. This feels similar, in a lot of ways. Tim wants the familiar, he feels like he’s losing everything he loved, and he just wants something, regardless of whether or not it was the true thing that he was actually longing for. That’s why he can’t have any sympathy for an eleven year old child who needs a lifeline. That’s why he can’t see that Dick needs help, rather than help from Dick. Because Tim’s losses are mounting too fast and too high and it’s ripping him apart. They’re all just barely holding on by their fingertips and have so little left over to give each other, Dick doesn’t have time to be gentle with Tim, Damian doesn’t have the emotional tools to be gentle with anyone, Tim doesn’t have the emotional resources to do more than just make it through the day, they’re all a mess, they’re all not right and they’re all not wrong.
Regarding the misconception that Dick kicks Tim out of the Batcave
One thing I’ve seen a lot in fandom especially Tim Drake fandom is that when Dick makes Damian Robin, he kicks Tim out of the Batcave/kicked tim out of the family.
This is simply not present in text from what I read
(I’m not saying it wouldn’t feel like that for Tim. But how he feels does not retroactively re-characterize Dick’s actions)
Keep in mind that this is from the Red Robin comics, which in my opinion, were very favorable to Tim at the expense of other characters (aflred congratulates tim for punching a 10 year old in the face, which seems really OOC for him, the characters came in three brands: in awe of tim, dick, and getting their ass kicked) and I feel like if Dick was going to be demonized in Tim’s favor, it would be here.
We start post Battle of the Cowl, I assume, with Dick as Batman and I assume he is informing Tim that he wants Damian to be Robin
[image: a close up of Tim Drake’s face in the Batcave, then we zoom out and see he’s standing behind Dick as Batman, who is at the Batcave computer.
TIM: You said we’d be okay. My entire life has burnt down! Again! I don’t call this ‘okay’, Dick!
DICK: He’s my responsibility, now. You’re not my protege, Tim… You’re my equal. My closest ally. You’ll be okay. But him… Tim, you know better than anyone that left on his own, he’s going to kill someone. Again. You have to understand –
TIM (Crossing arms): No. I don’t. This is all I have now. end image]
so what we’ve got so far
Tim is (reasonably) upset that the kid who tried to kill him is being made Robin and feels like his life is crashing down and robin is all he has now
Dick assures Tim of his importance, that he trusts Tim as his closest ally and his equal, and he is only doing this to keep an eye on Damian/ take care of him (remember the context for this: Damian literally has no one. his dad’s dead, his grandfather was trying to possess him in RRAG and he’s regarded as an enemy of the league of shadows who did raise him, his mom is inconsistently characterized and did not even raise him in this continuity). So while this reasonably feels like betrayal to Tim, Dick’s actions also make sense and are in the interest of helping people
Now… Enter Damian
image: we see Damian Wayne as Robin, standing in front of the giant penny and smirking.
DAMIAN: We’ll have to upgrade security in the cave, Batman. Keep out the Riff-raff.
TIM: How can you let him wear that costume, Dick? What earth are we on that you choose him over me? Tim starts walking away.
DAMIAN: Don’t be so sensitive, Drake.
DICK: Damian, shut up. Now.
DAMIAN: Sorry, drake. You’re still part of the team – maybe the Batgirl costume is available!
TIM: My name is Tim Wayne!
Tim turns and punches Damian in the face. Dick immediately holds Tim Back by his arms and Tim is leaning forward, still trying to go at Damian. T
Damian lands on the floor and wipes the back of his mouth with his hand and it looks like blood is coming out.
DICK: TIm, back off!
DAMIAN: Hhh… hn. I let you get that shot in, Drake. I want you to feel good about yourself… God knows you don’t have any other reason. end image]
Damian is extremely antagonistic towards tim. we see Dick trying to shut Damian down, because he doesn’t want him to antagonize Tim. Dick is fully in Tim’s corner during this interaction until Tim punches Damian in the face, then he holds him back and tells him to back off.
[image: Tim shakes out of Dick’s grip. and Dick lets him go. He starts walking angrily towards the exit.
TIM: You want me to back off? Fine.
DICK: He’s gone, Tim. You have to accept it. Things have to change. But I still need you.
DAMIAN: For what?
DICK: Shut up, Damian. end image]
Important note: So it makes sense that Tim perceives Dick making Damian Robin as kicking him out, but Dick does not actually kick him out. He just says “Back off”. As in “Don’t punch the ten-year-old in the face*”
Even after Tim punches the kid who tried to kill him in the face/ the kid who Dick is trying to protect and redeem, Dick is still incredibly clear verbally that he wants to be in Tim’s corner. He still asserts that he needs him and tells Damian to shut up.
Dick did decide to make Damian Robin which understandably felt like a betrayal to Tim, but he never tried to kick Tim out of the family and never tried to make him feel like he wasn’t wanted. Verbally, he reassured Tim that he was an equal, that he belonged, and that he was needed. This did not come through from Tim’s perspective because him making Damian Robin negated all that, and it makes sense that Tim felt that way because he just lost the last bit of his family (both from Bruce dying and from his perspective of Dick choosing Damian over him), but it still doesn’t mean that Dick canonically tried to kick Tim out or tried to get rid of him.
Dick was taking on a lot of responsibility and trying to manage the fact that they both lost their father figures while also trying to keep a ten-year-old who had been raised by assassins from doing any more harm or coming to any more harm.
*yes I know someone will be like “But Damian tried to kill Tim!” I was not aware that someone being violent towards you once meant you were justified in all further violence towards them, even if they are still young enough to be in elementary school
Tim tries to bond with Damaian by going to an art museum and immediately gets arrested as alvin draper
Tim Drake and Red robin
Aka the whole identity problem.
So there’s a lot of discussion over Tim and what identity he is going to take up- this is by no means recent, it’s been going on for over a decade. So for a lot of people who are newer to comics I want to explain why Red Robin isn’t really an option as a permanent identity for Tim, and what Red Robin means to Tim personally
Weiterlesen
When my brain is not Phone Calls Sludge I want to write up thoughts about Tim’s self-isolation during Red Robin in the context of Bruce, with the aid of Alfred & Stephanie, through a couple incidents later in the Robin solo comic, fucking breaking Tim’s ability to trust.
Like we talk a lot about the Drakes’ neglect and Tim’s communication style and need to feel useful etc, but like. Bruce made a fake message from the future with the explicit goal making Tim less trusting. He encouraged Stephanie to not reveal her survival as soon as she came back, and also tasked her with messing with Tim in dangerous ways as “training”.
We cannot fucking look at Tim’s fucked up mental state during Red Robin and completely disregard those incidents, we just can’t. Batman fucking broke this kid and I want to hit Bruce with a frying pan.
ra’s al ghul, immortal assassin king: you are... different from the others. always so many steps ahead. well done foiling my plot, detective, your ingenuity is quite unique. perhaps you will make a worthy—
tim, 17, running on nothing but rage, grief, and determination, literally just wants his dad back: yeah uh huh cool cool cool how about those league computers
there is so much comedy potential in the fact that none of the batfam knows wtf happened to tim on his grief crazed insanity quest to yoink their dead father out of the time stream
like man’s fully lost his spleen, took down the council of spiders, joined & destroyed the league of assassins, and then proceeded to get fake engaged, fake shot and fake paralyzed all on live tv immediately upon returning
Red Robin era Tim was too powerful. His immune system actually need his spleen removed so he didn’t develop an autoimmune reaction from being such a badass.
he literally lost an organ and just walked it off with nothing more than a few stitches like???
He took on Ra's al Ghul mainly because he was just getting annoyed by him??? sir that’s one of the most powerful people on the planet
and he faked his own murder??? twice??? (bonding time with your sister 🥰) and it worked???
also not to mention everyone wanted Tim, not just romantically (even though, let’s face it, that as well) like the villains were basically begging him to switch sides and team up
also the unternet Red Robin costume, we lost it far too soon
they had to remove his spleen, kill of Alvin Draper and reboot the entire universe because Tim was just too good
new question if you could force all of ur followers to watch/play through/read one piece of media what would it be
bring Pru back 2k24
another repost from my Instagram in 2021
Thank you for gracing our eyes and breaking our hearts 🙏🙏🙏
On another episode of “This song is Tim Drake coded”: today’s entry focuses on “Broken Crown” by Mumford & Sons.
Spoilers for multiple comic runs below
The first instance of Tim defying someone’s wishes is directly after he’s introduced. Tim’s whole character was built on his love and admiration for the crime-stopping-duo that is Batman and Robin. This literally builds his character up to the point that Tim finds out their identities when he’s nine years old. When Jason dies and Bruce spirals and Batman is beating criminals to near death, for simple offenses like stealing, Tim takes it as “I know why this is happening, I have to be the one to help Batman!” The first instance of this is when he quite literally makes his way to Blüdhaven in order to beg Dick to resume his position as Robin, despite knowing his role as Nightwing. When Tim is denied this, his next course of action is to go to Bruce Wayne’s doorstep and demand to speak with Batman, proving he knows the household’s secret.
What really makes this song work is that the second line of the first verse being “I’ll never be your chosen one”. This description of Tim’s role as a Bat is so intrinsic to his character that it causes MULTIPLE conflicts, both initially and years after he gets to be the third Robin.
Tim knows he’s not Bruce’s choice for a partner. Their whole initial relationship is strictly “You are overstepping everything but because you know too much I have to tolerate you.” And Tim’s only reaction is “I understand that, and I am just your business partner.”
This dynamic carries on for so long that when Tim’s mom dies and his mother is in a coma, he is so TERRIFIED of allowing Bruce to foster him, that he hires an aspiring actor to play his fake uncle after forging multiple documents that would allow him to be a real person.
This is your reminder that Tim was a child when all of this started, and he is STILL canonically a child.
The next bit references a plot that comes a bit later after everything referenced
The next lyrics are great at connecting what some of Tim’s thoughts were in certain conflicts.
“The pull on my flesh was just too strong
Stifled the choice and the air in my lungs
Better not to breathe than to breathe a lie
‘Cause when I open my body I breathe in a lie”
When Jack comes out of his coma, Tim moves back in with him, and after Jack marries Dana, Jack eventually finds Tim’s Robin suit and DEMANDS that his son stop his vigilante career or else he’d expose Batman’s identity. The resulting conflict is Tim doing his best to comply with Jack’s demands while trying to not upset Bruce because at this point Tim is still paranoid about disappointing Bruce since he’s still just a business partner to him.
Eventually he has to choose between disappointing Batman or his dad, so instead of trying to survive a double life Tim gives up and just manages to convince Jack it will be okay, resulting in Tim not having to breathe in a lie every day.
The next section is connecting to when the 2003 Teen Titans get to interact with their evil future selves.
The entire pre-chorus is fantastic at being able to show the differences between “Current Tim” and “Future Tim”.
“And I will not speak of your sins
There was a way out for him
The mirror shows not
Your values are all shot
But oh, my heart was flawed
I knew my weaknesses
So hold my hand
Consign me not to darkness”
When the Teen Titans first meet their future evil selves, none of them initially realize that their timeline was off. Whenever they do get to see what they were like they were all horrified at everything they were doing, even if Deathstroke was a bad person. At this point Tim wasn’t sure what Batman’s deal was but no one really could’ve predicted anything that would occur.
When the team manages to get Tim back to the rest of them and the Titans West went to fight Titans East so the current Titans would be able to return to their correct timeline, they decide to not tell other heroes about what they saw.
The first line of the pre-chorus “And I will not speak of you sins” really hits for Tim because he tries really hard to not acknowledge that for him to become Batman, for him to kill without remorse, and to become a facist dictator who removes his citizens’ emotions so they won’t be able to revolt, most of his family, friends, and coworkers will have to die, but he’s also kill the original Batman rogue gallery.
Future Tim’s Batman EMBODIES “your values are all shot” because he knows that what he was doing was wrong, but revenge came before moral consequences until Batman was irreversibly changed for the worse.
Not only that, but Future Tim shows Current Tim the cemetery so he could prove that the no killing rule was a weakness and that letting himself kill would help people in the long run.
The next reference is the classic conflict between Tim, Dick, and Damian. Specifically when Tim walks in on Damian in his suit. When Dick essentially says that “we’re equals, so because Damian needs the Robin role to change him, you don’t need it because you’re so well adjusted”
Tim’s reaction to this implies he thinks everything they’ve accomplished as Robin will be ruined by Damian, and therefore ruins the entire Robin legacy.
I think what really punctuates this idea is that later on when Tim is working with the LOA and starts to get called “Detective” by Ra’s, there are moments where he directly states or think that “he’s not Robin” or that he’s glad Batman isn’t here to see his screw ups. But it’s more interesting when combined with the fact that he took up the moniker of Red Robin because it was already “tarnished” when Jason wore it during a team up with Donna and Kyle.
All in all there are so many points about Tim and legacies, as well as generally being the one that doesn’t get chosen or allowed to do his own things, that makes this such a great song to connect to him.