Anti Dumb & Dumber - Tumblr Posts - Page 2

That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. After Ser Willem had died, the servants had stolen what little money they had left, and soon after they had been put out of the big house. Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever.

Why Daenerys should not be glorified

Her story isn’t about revolution. A revolution happens from within, it doesn’t happen when an outsider (and ok, she was raised in poverty, but now she has a huge amount of power & privilege, as the post under the ‘read more’ discusses) shows up to free people from their own savage culture. As if nobody in the slave cities had ever gone “wow guys, this is bad, maybe we should do something.” No, the only person to have the courage/mercy/humanity to stand up to the barbaric practices there is the same person who burnt a rape victim alive. Okay then.

If GRRM had wanted her narrative to be about revolution, then Dany would have freed the people in Westeros — not in some orientalist, Otherized, exotic part of the ASOIAF universe. 

People don’t sit around going “I wish someone would show up and set us free,” they start their own revolutions. So how on earth is it relevant to compare her story to the Arab Spring?

There needs to be a study into why people love to refer to the Targ’s as ‘white saviours’ as if almost every damn house/person in that world aren’t white or some variation of white 🙄

Dany is freeing slaves therefore to them she is a white saviour and that extends to her family. Never mind that the slavery in ASoIaF is more akin to that of the Roman Empire.

They just love to hate and do it illogically, which is what bothers me most.

“I don’t get why people are so mad about the Mad Queen, Dany’s character has been building to this and it makes perfect sense for her!”

Okay, so even if we pretend for a second that Dany burning KL at the time and in the way she did made sense (it didn’t), there’s a whole other element as to why the Mad Queen arc was SO infuriating. And that is because for two seasons the entire logic of the show bends backwards until it breaks in order to get Dany to the point where they could try to justify that act.

Let’s look at some examples:

Tyrion instructs Dany to invade Casterly Rock, leaving Highgarden unprotected. It makes zero sense for a character renowned for their intelligence to propose this. CR is a defensive stronghold that offers no tactical advantage to a Conquerer, while Highgarden is one of Dany’s strongest allies with the funds to support her conquest. Dany loses House Tyrell and the Reach because of this.

Tyrion also advises Dany to send some of her most valuable men Beyond the Wall to capture a wight to convince Cersei of their existence. Again, this makes no sense for Tyrion to propose. He of all people should know that Cersei is a deranged narcissist who could never be trusted. I guess Tyrion kind of forgot his sisters central character traits. Dany loses a dragon because of this.

Dany also would not have lost Viserion if she had not arrived in time to rescue Jon and the others. But lucky for them (and unlucky for Viserion), ravens can now fly from the wall to Dragonstone in a single night.

“Dany kind of forgot about the iron fleet.” Apparently this Conquerer queen heading south for war just didn’t send out any sort of scouts, and entirely forgot about one of the like two forces that she needs to watch out for. None of her war advisors remember this either. She loses Rhaegal and Missandei because of this.

Cersei decides to behead Missandei as opposed to keeping her prisoner in the Red Keep in order to discourage Dany from just burning it down.

The Iron Fleet— which would later fail to strike down Drogon despite firing dozens of scorpions— is able to take Rhaegal down with two back to back perfect shots. Also apparently they can see Rhaegal well enough to do that, but neither Rhaegal nor Drogon nor Dany were able to see them.

Upon coming to Westeros, Dany has three dragons, a huge army of Unsullied, a huge army of Dothraki, a portion of the Iron Fleet, the full support of Highgarden with all their wealth and armies and probably much of their Bannermen, and the backing of Dorne. Dany is told that this is not enough, and she will not be able to take KL without tons of innocent bloodshed. Dany then proceeds to lose 2/3 dragons, Highgarden, Dorne, the Iron Fleet, and a huge portion of her Unsullied and Dothraki armies. In exchange, she gets an army of tired unmotivated northerners. Meanwhile Cersei obtains all of Highgardens wealth, the Golden Company, the Iron Fleet, and a massive force of scorpions. Dany proceeds to take Kings Landing and force a surrender with virtually zero civilian bloodshed.

Dany is portrayed as unreasonable and irrational for wanting to immediately attack Kings Landing with her full force. This perceived irrationality is the basis for her advisors questioning and betraying her. Dany is later proved correct in all of her courses of action when— again— she forces KL surrender quickly and cleanly and with virtually no civilian bloodshed.

Varys, a character renowned for his patience and ability to play the game and wait to strike until the opportune moment, a man who sat through Joffrey’s reign and did nothing, suddenly feels that Daenerys (who has not done anything worse than what Varys already knew her capable of when he decided to support her) is such a risk that he tries to poison her before she has even defeated Cersei for him. Again, the supposed reckless plan that Varys betrays Dany for is later proven to have been the correct plan.

Cersei faces no backlash from any of her actions. Nobody cares that she blew up the Westerosi Vatican. Nobody cares that she murdered the Queen of Westeros. Nobody cares that she helped orchestrate the fall death of Ned Stark and bears responsibility for the subsequent war and massacre of many of the remaining starks. Nobody cares that she is very very unlikely to accept Northern Independence, and very likely to hold a grudge against the north and house stark and seek to wipe them out. Cersei faces zero criticism or opposition from anyone besides Daenerys, and dethroning her is treated as an unnecessary inconvenience that nobody really cares that much about, and are only doing because Dany wants to.

These are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head. There are surely many many more.

Dany was too OP coming into season 7. As such, in order to make the plot work and reach their predetermined Mad Queen ending, the very fabric of the universe twisted and warped for the explicit purpose of taking away everything she had and loved. Dumbass plans from characters known for the intelligence, fast travel, discarding of the “action and consequence” internal logic of the show for Dany’s opposition, forgetting of basic war time strategy. Cersei’s forces are a formidable threat when Dany needs to look reckless and bad for wanting to attack Kings Landing. Cersei’s forces then proceed to not be a threat at all and collapse like a tower of cards when Dany needs to look awful and evil for burning down a city that surrendered so easily.

So yeah, even if in that moment you believe Dany would burn down Kings Landing, the fact that Dany fans had to sit there and watch as every single aspect of the show was manipulated in the most illogical way for the sole purpose of making her the villain…? Is it really in character if the fundamental logic of the universe has to change in order for it to happen?

“And the relationship she has with Jon Snow is, I still believe, the truest, most real love she experiences in her entire life. So for that to be the way that it ends … obviously there’s a poetry to it, but there’s a huge amount of pain that comes with it. Think about what Dany went through. She was a slave. She was sold. There was a complete disregard and utter lack of love for her when she was growing up. Her brother told her the Iron Throne was ours by right. Her father was completely crazy. Through all that she had her mission and, at every turn, she sacrificed everything — everything! Friends, happiness, being a mother. And then imagine working your way up and suddenly at the last hurdle, this … cute boy with curly hair comes along and screws everything up because she’s in love with him and doesn’t know how to handle that. She thinks she can have it all with him, that he can give her what she’s been craving her whole life. And he turns out to be not what she thought and he will choose someone over her. Again, her worth isn’t enough for anyone else.” - Emilia Clarke, LA Times

Sansa stans are really out here acting like dany is the only white character in asoiaf. they’ll say they hate dany for being a “white savior” or a “spoiled entitled white girl” but then uncritically stan Sansa who is just as white as dany is, and grows up way more privileged than dany did.

Well, you see Sansa is a red-head which makes her a white woman of color. She's actually the most oppressed character in the books don't you know? 😔

Their logic is so screwed up that I don't even know where to start. I have noticed that women (usually white ones ironically) do the same thing that men do and add "white woman" before their misogynistic statement as though that absolves them. So specifying that Dany is white before a statement putting her down is their way of justifying their hate. But ye olde hypocrisy kicks in and calling Sansa privileged is considered misogyny despite her being one of the most privileged characters in the books (along with the other Starks) + steadily benefiting from her privilege throughout the books in ways other characters don't. She isn't starving, on the run, lacking nice clothes, or a comfortable place to sleep, etc. like a lot of other characters are. And then, because she never lacks resources, she never even confronts this or how lower-class people are treated in contrast. It's just interesting that one character is the devil for being "privileged" even though they've lived a life of poverty and had to fight for everything they have, but another is the most "worthy" character in the books despite being even more privileged and entitled.

Two of the many reasons I hate House of the Dragon:

-- They're doubling down on GOT's vitriol that "the best ruler is the one that doesn't want to rule" that they used to vilify Dany in the end.

-- They made Alicent and Rhaenyra into these peace-loving characters, and gave many of Dany's peace-loving qualities to them. Which led to a bunch of show-watchers (and plenty of book readers that don't know the books well) to believe that Rhaenyra and Alicent are better queens/more peaceful/more reasonable than Dany. These fans end up loving Rhaenyra and Alicent while hating Dany, even though the reasons they love show!Rhaenyra and show!Alicent are precisely the qualities that the showrunners stole from book!Dany and gave to them.

Two of the many reasons I hate House of the Dragon:

-- They're doubling down on GOT's vitriol that "the best ruler is the one that doesn't want to rule" that they used to vilify Dany in the end.

-- They made Alicent and Rhaenyra into these peace-loving characters, and gave many of Dany's peace-loving qualities to them. Which led to a bunch of show-watchers (and plenty of book readers that don't know the books well) to believe that Rhaenyra and Alicent are better queens/more peaceful/more reasonable than Dany. These fans end up loving Rhaenyra and Alicent while hating Dany, even though the reasons they love show!Rhaenyra and show!Alicent are precisely the qualities that the showrunners stole from book!Dany and gave to them.

Two of the many reasons I hate House of the Dragon:

-- They're doubling down on GOT's vitriol that "the best ruler is the one that doesn't want to rule" that they used to vilify Dany in the end.

-- They made Alicent and Rhaenyra into these peace-loving characters, and gave many of Dany's peace-loving qualities to them. Which led to a bunch of show-watchers (and plenty of book readers that don't know the books well) to believe that Rhaenyra and Alicent are better queens/more peaceful/more reasonable than Dany. These fans end up loving Rhaenyra and Alicent while hating Dany, even though the reasons they love show!Rhaenyra and show!Alicent are precisely the qualities that the showrunners stole from book!Dany and gave to them.

SIMILARITIES BETWEEN BOOK!DAENERYS’ AND SHOW!RHAENYRA’S VIEWS ON QUEENSHIP 

(none of the Dany quotes above were included on Game of Thrones)

Marc Simonetti:  On the ADWD cover for Brazil, I put Daenerys at the top of the stairs of the Meereenese pyramid. I had undoubtedly been, unconsciously, influenced by the series. And George [R. R. Martin] told me that Daenerys wants equality for everyone, she wants to be at the same level as her people, so I had her climb down to keep it consistent.

~

GRRM:  By Season 5 and 6, and certainly 7 and 8, I was pretty much out of the loop.

~

GRRM: So I think what you’re going to find is, when “Winds of Winter” and then, hopefully, “Dream of Spring” come out, that my ending will be very different.

~

GRRM: As I write these last two books, I’ll be moving towards the endings that I’ve known since 1991. | GRRM in the 1993 outline: Five central characters will make it through all three volumes. […] The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. | GRRM: Not all of the characters who survived until the end of GAME OF THRONES will survive until the end of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, and not all of the characters who died on GAME OF THRONES will die in A SONG OF ICE & FIRE.

~

GRRM: Well of course the two outlying ones, the things that are going on north of the Wall and Daenerys Targaryen on the other continent with her dragons are of course the Ice and Fire of the title, the Song of Ice and Fire. | HOTD (Aegon’s prophecy reveal came from GRRM):  And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne. A king or queen strong enough to unite the realm against the cold and the dark. Aegon called his dream ‘The Song of Ice and  Fire’. | GRRM: Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.

Remember how horrible was Dany's season 2 arc?

They invented a whole subplot of her handmaiden betraying( when Doreah in the books died in the desert with Dany holding her hand) instead of showing us more of her actual second book arc.

They also killed more of her Dothraki followers ( who are still alive in the books) to have her further isolated. And the HotU was such a mess. It's one of the highlights of the second book ( not only for Dany's storyline, in general) and they messed it up so badly.

Daenerys Targaryen + a few of the endless scenes (from multiple seasons) in which her show version was portrayed as the opposite of her book version  

anya taylor-joy as book!daenerys targaryen || lauren julien-box as book!missandei || ranveer singh as book!daario naharis || oscar isaac as book!hizdahr zo loraq

This isn’t commonly known but one of the rings of hell is actually being in a fandom wherein the popular bloggers have the worst opinions known to man that everyone else parrots

So Taylor Swift really said DAENERYS RIGHTS and we've decided to stan harder 🐍🐲

considering how many people from the north / sworn to starks / related to them betrayed starks in the past and how many people from the south saved them, it's really ironic how they could not trust daenerys "because she's not one of them"

boltons were ones of you. you remember what they did to your brother, his wife and their unborn child? what boltons from the north did to your mother and your people? what boltons did to sansa? theon was one of you. he literally was raised with you and how that ended for robb, rickon and bran? how it ended for ser rodrik? shall we speak of how people of winterfell suffered because of theon and boltons? master luwin's name means something to you? what your dear aunt lysa, related to you by blood, did to you, sansa? should i remind you that it was karstarks who abandoned robb? that it was people from the north who later refused to help starks take winterfell back?

or shall we speak how it was ser davos from the south that helped them to gather allies? perhaps name "the hound" reminds you of someone, someone idk who protected both sansa and arya? jaqen was not from the north and yet he helped you, arya, beric dondarrion and his brotherhood did as well. oh and what about gendry and hot pie? since when they were from the north? now wildings are okay bc they fought for you? but they are from behind the wall, how can you trust someone who's not one of you? brienne of tarth helped you. littlefinger and knights of the vale saved you. tyrion protected you. margaery and lady olenna helped you. neither from the north

but it's daenerys when you draw the line because she's not from the north, she's not stark? damn, she should have let you all die and keep her people and dragons in essos

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BOOK!DANY AND SHOW!DANY— Dany and Hizdahr's conversation at Daznak's Pit

TL;DR: the show-only scene makes Dany seem misguided and potentially dangerous and tries to cast doubt on her moral compass, while the book-only scene written by George R. R. Martin showcases Dany's persistent effort to protect the ones who can't protect themselves.

On HBO: the writers created an entirely original scene in order to paint Dany as someone potentially willing to use indiscriminate violence to achieve her goals, while Hizdahr is portrayed as the more cautious figure who defends the tradition of the fighting pits for the sake of Meereen's cultural identity and continuity.

In the books: Dany is shown to be empathetic and protective of the marginalized. She imposes strict conditions to ensure that only willing participants fight in the pits and immediately steps in to stop the needless deaths of (unbeknownst to her) Tyrion and Penny. Meanwhile, Hizdahr shows no regard for the dwarfs' consent or well-being. His attempt to circumvent Dany's anti-slavery measures in order to force two vulnerable and unwilling slaves to fight against lions serves as a critique of the Ghiscari nobles, who readily perpetuate cruelty and oppression for the sake of their entertainment.

How do you people who are on reddit, keep your blood pressure from rising. Stupid thread defending stupid writers, almost worshipping the choice of putting Tywin at Harrenhal as peak TV, "chaos is a ladder" is apparently not a sign of hack writing. Look, look at this shit down below. I hate, absolutely hate those neutral readers and dudebros who are in the fandom.

I will forever standby my observation that most fans ( both of books and of show) wouldn't have minded the adaptation, had Jon and Dany been given their dues. And this isn't me bitching about these two characters, not at all, but this fandom always had the propensity to shoo away nuance and to reduce many of the other characters ( yes I am talking about my fave) to mere tropes, rather than to sit and reflect. Which is why the show didn't get called stupid this resoundingly before season 8. Had it ended the way it was predicted to be, the influence of the show would have been carried on into book discussions even by those who are as of now hardcore show antis ( before season 8, I had heard things like "yeah well even though Arya is one of the big fives, she isn't really the main character of the series, why would the details matter" :) )

This is the reason why there are still polls where Jaqen and Sandor are given more importance than Ned or Jon in Arya's storyline.

lol, thank you reddit