Journey To The West - Tumblr Posts

So, I guess November is JttW month!

From Dominic Noble:

To OSP:

And I just now found out this was true for this one podcast I haven't listened to in awhile (Mythology by Parcast) and one of the recent episodes covers Guanyin's goldfish (here are the other episodes too).

Journey to the West in memes because I love this book, Part 2

(Big spoilers ahead)

Hi! I love your art and au! I keep coming back to see if there is anything new! I do have a question about macaque's back story. In the back story, there is mention of him getting married a few times and having children. Who are his children and were they involved in JTTW? Has wukong met them? Are they also immortal or have they passed on? (( sorry this is super long! Keep being amazing!!))

Oooh that's a good question✨

Your question gave me an idea.💡

A lot of his children didn't get to make it all the way. they died from old age or natural causes here and there, but the ones who were fully demon get to live a little longer but they died of old demon age anyways. but I'm sure Wukong got to meet one of them for his master was sick and needed help and there was a medicine demon who was old but gentle and kind like his mother and father, who looked a bit like mac. It was life-threatening but his master made it with a clean bill of health, Wukong was eternally grateful for this old demon who saved his master and remember him fondly when he is reminiscing of good old days that just how lucky was he to meet that Old Demon.😌

Bonus: headcanons

In some of his past marriages his Partners couldn't have kids of Their own. Either because they couldn't conceive children and the magic of the river couldn't work because of it or they weren't born with the right parts. SooO he offered to do it for them.

He's such a good husband💕

I greatly think, as I've seen it come up time and again whenever this game is brought up, is people becoming interested in JttW. I'm positive you got more traffic since this game was released, cause people want to know what it's based on.

Something called a "Conspiracy Theory" does not invite any sense of truth… But I also do not see what it has to do with BMW. Or what you mean by "The game follows this method." I don't know; maybe it flew over my head, but it doesn't seem like your most informed takes, which surprises me with all the research you do, and I usually like your articles.

I won't mention Does the Buddha Lie in Journey to the West? Too much because it doesn't involve in the overall argument I will present about adaptations in general (maybe I should reblog the response post, but this all started because of this post, so), but for the sake of responding to this post… I don't have any issue with your response to Ye Zhiqiu. I find it the most reasonable thing presented to me out of everything connected to this post and another good article by you, though a part of me wants to read his article directly; however, I am unable to read the language, and online translation can involve some level of incorrectness.

Anyways, more is below. It, uh, got long. I'm sorry if this possibly comes off as rude, I say this as I do have some struggles with identifying emotion and text especially makes it harder.

I just read the post from Ryin-Silverfish, so I will put my immediate thoughts on it. It talked a lot about JCT but little about the game. In addition, how they explained JCT makes me see it even less... Tho, I find it weird that they call out A Chinese Odyssey, considering that's a drama-comedy and most things are done for humor effect rather than a commentary (not that there isn't any; I feel that it is impossible for someone's view/beliefs to not color a work to a degree)--I do not want to say 'reading too much into it' because I don't think that can be true of anything. Still, I feel it's a bit 'watching with an altered view of it.' I have seen the first two parts, and unfortunately, part 3.

A point I've seen in that post and here <https://www.tumblr.com/journeytothewestresearch/762214744615763968/ive-read-your-articles-on-your-blog-i-cant?source=share> is that BMW makes all gods evil, which I would disagree with. Erlang, for all that he was involved in, is not evil as he helps Wukong (even yearning for him at times, ngl that was a... charged battle). I would even argue the Demon Bull family wasn't evil or the Spider family. So on that point, the JCT-BMW theory is just a theory.

Edit: some time after making this post I've seen the true ending, and also an interesting video by Jaobird (Black Myth: Wukong is Actually Insane - Before You Buy Black Myth: Wukong) that talks about his experience and feelings. Something he mentions is the lore entries, how in-depth they are, and the large amount of them, and I think that points to the idea that the developers cared more than some people think. The animations at the end of each chapter I think points to this too. I cannot comment, however, on anything about "distort the meaning of Buddhahood or Enlightenment", though I can see an interpretation both ways of yes or no, because of me being rather new to learning these things and not living in an area with any form of Buddhism so no exposure growing up past knowing that Buddhism is a thing.

And regarding your earlier response about adaptations in that post, this will be rude, but get over yourself. This is honestly spiraling too much, but I think it clouds your view and overwrites your better judgment of any work based on JttW, which you admit to somewhat. You cannot properly analyze BMW with this view that "In general, I don't like adaptations," as it will automatically put BMW in a negative light for you and make you more negative than critical before even looking at the game itself.

Adaptations can be good; whether or not BMW does it is another argument, but disregarding something because it's an adaptation (not even about how it adapts the thing) is just a closed view of it.

Mind you, I've only seen up to the 5th chapter (edit: now true ending) and haven't read the lore entries and such, so I'm not speaking as a BMW fan or anything--for what I've seen so far, it's alright--or as someone particularly knowledgable about it. I'm speaking more from my experiences with mythologies or historical figures adapted to various works. Such as the Greek gods or Arthurian media, even something like Peter Pan. And my research into what makes an adaptation... and my deep dive into as many adaptations of the JttW as possible; what can I say? I have fun with them. (Except for Conquering the Demons, that was a bad movie).

Adaptations are more than just taking the book and making it another medium, keeping 100% as is, despite the common definition or what many people think. To take from Oxford, an adaptation is "the process of making a work of art upon the basis of elements provided by an earlier work in a different, usually literary, medium." And "distinctions are commonly drawn between ‘faithful’ adaptations, in which the distinctive elements (characters, settings, plot events, dialogue) of the original work are preserved as far as the new medium allows, and ‘free’ adaptations, sometimes called ‘versions’ or ‘interpretations,’ in which significant elements of the original work are omitted or replaced by wholly new material."

There will be changes because how people view and/or understand a particular concept changes over time; the whole joke about "historians will call them friends" comes from historians hesitant to put any label on people because how homosexuality was understood has changed over time (from the view of the people then and the historian of any particular era afterward).

Maybe someone wants to "adapt" it to their modern era (whenever that is) and/or change the allegory. Maybe it's JttW, but its setting is changed to 1920s Germany, or the allegory for heaven is changed from 16th-century China and the criticism of it, changed to 20th-century America and the criticism of it. [You definitely see this with Arthurian literature and other mediums, which are constantly adapting on itself, most often Le Morte D'Arthur, or changing the allegory such as Arthur the good chivalrous king vs Arthur the lazy bum look at our original oc Lancelot (I like Lancelot but). Does this make, say, BBC Merlin a bad show cause it changed Merlin into a servant boy who secretly had magic? No, it's a lousy show cause it kept fumbling on how to tell its story and holding back on revealing that Merlin had magic to Arthur until Arthur died was highly dumb.] Nezha Reborn is a damn good movie, even though it involves Nezha dying and Wukong being the cooky old fool and is set in a different time period entirely--it is still an adaptation, and it isn't 100% faithful to JttW or Investiture of the Gods in the case of Nezha.

Sometimes, though, the original work would not work 100% faithfully in another medium--musicals come to mind. I doubt a musical could be entirely faithful to the novel because the time it would take for a musical would be outlandish and unrealistic to do, things would have to be cut out or altered.

To go even further, dipping into slightly extreme, but what about fanart? Art on its own is adapting the work. Is it not worth looking at if someone puts Sun Wukong in modern clothing? Or interpret Tripitaka as something other than a monk?

Is creative expression not allowed? Because it's an adaptation?

I wanted to add something someone on Discord said to me about adaptations. "Adaptations have been a thing basically as long as we’ve had two different mediums to share stories." There have been adaptations that have been called better than the original. (Another mentioned that The Thing is a remake of an adaptation.) Maybe not applying to JttW let alone done by BMW, but something to keep in mind for adaptations.

"It makes a lot of sense to be protective of the original. To be afraid of what might happen if the adaptation of this thing you have opened your heart to goes poorly. But that’s a fear of the risk involved, not so much a fear of adaptation itself."

--

I usually really like your posts about JttW and all that is related to it, but I have noticed you struggle a lot with properly criticizing and in general analyzing anything adapting it.

I feel a little surprised considering how open/encouraging even at times you've been for fanfiction--a form of adaptation let's be honest here.

I think something you should look at is Dominic Noble's channel and his video...

Maybe even the Overly Sarcastic Productions videos that summarize the JttW, I'm curious about your thoughts--taking into understanding your beliefs as you presented them here.

I'm a Theravada Buddhist. I saw many people interpreting the story and meaning behind Black Myth Wukong, differently. But I hope the devs team didn't intend to insult Buddha Dhamma by recreating this new story and distort the meaning of Buddhahood or Enlightenment itself..

I don't know if they intended to insult Buddhism, but I can say that their presentation of Buddhism in the game is disrespectful.

@ryin-silverfish recently posted a wonderful essay on what's known as the "JTTW Conspiracy Theory," which is a method of interpreting the story by twisting details, making the heavenly hierarchy look evil. The game follows this method. I recommend that you read the essay:

I unknowingly ran into the JTTW Conspiracy Theory a couple of years ago. A Chinese article claimed that the Buddha lies in the novel. This is my rebuttal.

Journey to the West Research

Does the Buddha Lie in Journey to the West?

I was recently directed to an online Chinese article by Ye Zhiqiu (叶之秋) (n.d.) in which they claim that the Buddha makes “four grand, overar

The Sundown era! :)

somebody made an au where Wukong actually overthrew the Jade Emperor and took control of Heaven and never went on the JTTW, and MK got transported into it somehow and i've just spent an hour looking for it and i can't find it help-

𝗟𝗘𝗚𝗢 𝗠𝗼𝗻𝗸𝗶𝗲 𝗞𝗶𝗱 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗢𝗥𝗜𝗘𝗦 + 𝗣𝗥𝗘𝗗𝗜𝗖𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡𝗦

𝗡𝗘 𝗭𝗛𝗔 𝗔𝗚𝗘 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗢𝗥𝗬

I know this theory has been talked about a lot, but I would like to put my own thoughts and opinions about Ne Zha’s age. Of course, Ne Zha died at the age of 12, yet in the series; considered to be a somewhat spin-off/sequel to the Journey to the West novel, he appears to be physically an adult.

Understandably, some people wanted to defend the idea of Ne Zha physically and mentally grown since Journey to the West by using other country’s beliefs of Ne Zha depicted as an adult, however, other countries still depict Ne Zha as a child, and the crew for LEGO Monkie Kid revealed he was canonically a child during Season 4, Episode 5 “The Court of the Yellow-Robed Demon”. This leaves to the question of how he managed to appear older. 

I have been pondering on the idea for quite some time, and while going through several posts of people’s headcanons, references from other media depicting the other characters from Journey to the West, I have come to a conclusion. 

To support this theory, I will be using Macaque as an example to answer the mystery behind Ne Zha’s sudden ageing in LEGO Monkie Kid. It has become abundantly clear Macaque has a missing eye, and in the Season 3, Episode 8, “Benched”, while trying to retrieve the third Samadhi Ring from Tang, for a split second, the tip of his tail becomes slightly white. 

While going through fanart, people often depict Macaque, having glamorised his looks in order to hide his features (i.e., his scarred eye). Saying that, I believe Ne Zha has adapted to glamorise his child form into an adult form, possibly from wanting to fit his mental age physically and feel comfortable. Macaque so far, hasn’t shown his true form for a prologue time, I believe Nezha can hold his adult form without any difficulty. 

𝗠𝗞’𝗦 𝗠𝗢𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗥 𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗔𝗟𝗜𝗧𝗬 𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗢𝗥𝗬

Season 5 of LEGO Monkie Kid is bound to show Nuwa, or MK’s supposed mother, on the show. Most people are wanting Nuwa to be a loving and caring mother, however, I do not believe that will be the case considering the direction the show is taking on MK’s backstory.

In the Season 4 special “Emperor’s Wrath”, the Kings of Hell in the Underworld are shown to be devising a plan for the upcoming events for Season 5, and personally, I believe Nuwa will be some sort of secondary villain associated with the main plot in Season 5. 

I am predicting that Nuwa has some strong connections, or at the very least, is acquainted with the Kings of Hell. Perhaps in the past, the Kings of Hell held a grudge against Sun Wukong after erasing his name from the Book of the Dead.

They weren’t able to change the pages since the paper magically link to the people whose names are written, and possibly, recreating a new set of paper will negatively affect the other people’s mortality; which the Kings of Hell are not willing to risk. 

Leading to the Kings of Hell requesting the aid of the creator of humans, Nuwa, since the residents of the Celestial Realm are not going to approve such a dire plan without the approval of the Jade Emperor.

Maybe the Kings of Hell gained Nuwa’s interest throughout a promise with a type of reward at the end of deal, and making her create a lifeform with equal or stronger power than Sun Wukong.

From the flashback in Season 4 Episode 6, “Show Me The Monster'', there were several stone statues of various animals before the creation of MK (hinting there were several attempts to create the perfect lifeform). 

The idea of creating MK as a mystic monkey probably links to the Journey to the West novel, in the chapter where Macaque shapeshifted into the Monkey King and deceives the other pilgrims; and before the reveal of the Six-Eared Macaque, it was stated that the imposter was close to Sun Wukong’s power level, which, I’m assuming, Nuwa took note.  

Since Season 4 has hinted that Sun Wukong had some sort of connection with MK before he was created, I am predicting that he possibly knew Nuwa as a friend before she became an acquaintance with the Kings of Hell. Nuwa used that relationship as an advantage to analyse his skills and powers, while discussing using Sun Wukong as a pawn to help MK to be trained by the Monkey King, in order for MK to unlock his powers later in life. 

Reasoning why I believe Sun Wukong isn’t aware of Nuwa is supported in the Season 4 special, “Emperor’s Wrath”, when Azure Lion was defeated, Sun Wukong questioned him who set him free from the Scroll of Memory, and Azure Lion had no recollection.

Supporting this theory, judging the age of MK when he first met Pigsy in Season 4, Episode 6, “Show Me The Monster”, he seemed to be around the age of 5 years old, which when he should some remembered of Nuwa or Sun Wukong to some degree, but it’s possibly she must have erased MK’s memories. This might be an ability that she might use in Season 5.  

Nuwa must have deceived Sun Wukong somehow to convince him to protect MK when he proves himself to have potential to become Sun Wukong’s successor, not only to allow MK’s abilities to develop and become stronger, but she might also use MK to spy on the Monkey King from afar.  

To support this theory, I will use the 5th Anniversary LEGO set of Monkie Kid, as Nuwa is seen to be in disguise while running a jade shop in Megapolis. Perhaps she purposely dropped MK off at Pisgy’s Noodles and lived around the city to observe MK and waited until he was ready to wield the staff. Sun Wukong must have done the same, but without the knowledge of Nuwa’s plan with the Kings of Hell (To learn Sun Wukong’s weaknesses for the sake of devising a plan).  

In the pilot episode of LEGO Monkie Kid, “A Hero is Born”, MK needed to deliver some noodles to a customer, but ended up dealing with the Demon Bull Family. Perhaps Nuwa also purposely made MK make the trip so that he can find Monkey King’s staff and allow MK to meet Sun Wukong and start training because Nuwa might have a deadline to finish her end of the deal, before the Kings of Hell will take action in Season 5.

𝗢𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗥 𝗠𝗬𝗦𝗧𝗜𝗖 𝗠𝗢𝗡𝗞𝗘𝗬𝗦 𝗣𝗥𝗘𝗗𝗜𝗖𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡

Connecting to the last theory, I believe there will be a likely chance that Season 5 will introduce the other mystic monkeys from the Journey to the West novel. Judging from the direction of the LEGO Monkie Kid series, there will be new characters introduced other than Nuwa, considering that Season 5 will focus more on MK’s past, and him learning how to control his monkey powers.

For those who aren’t aware, in the Journey to the West novel, it is canon that there are a total of four mystic monkeys, which includes Sun Wukong (Spirit Intelligent Stone Monkey) and Macaque (Six-Eared Macaque Monkey). 

The other two are known as the Red Butt Horse Monkey and the Pass through Arm Ape Monkey (using the translated names from the Chinese characters).

Since the series does slightly alternate the Journey to the West lore, perhaps the Red Butt Horse Monkey and Pass through Arm Ape Monkey were created before Sun Wukong and Macaque, and the idea of MK being a new mystic monkey existing in the LEGO Monkie Kid show does bring their attention and they will contribute to the main conflict of Season 5 (Perhaps they know much more about the upcoming conflict with the Kings of Hell and MK’s monkey power awakening).

This prediction might be a bit of a stretch, but since MK’s monkey powers will most likely be one of the main focuses for the plot of Season 5, I believe these two monkeys are willing to become an influence; both negatively and positively.

Reasoning for this prediction is connected to the fact that the Red Butt Horse Monkey is known to have the ability to avoid death and lengthen its life, which I believe might lead the show to make an alliance with Nuwa and the Kings of Hell. 

Meanwhile, the Pass through Arm Ape Monkey might be helping MK through his glitching when it comes to his monkey form, and might have more knowledge about dealing with  MK’s problem than Monkey King.

To support this theory, in Season 4, Episode 7, “Pitiful Creatures”, when Wukong first sees MK’s glitching, he looks like he doesn’t look like he know how to deal this side-effect of unlocking the monkey powers, considering that Sun Wukong and Macaque were already created as monkeys and were able control their powers. 

The Pass through Arm Ape Monkey might have known of MK’s existence through the battle against Azure Lion in the Season 4 special, “Emperor’s Wrath”, as the sky and the whole world was breaking apart, and since the Pass through Arm Ape Monkey can manipulate the moon and stars.

It could be the reason why the Red Butt Horse Monkey told Nuwa and the Kings of Hell about MK’s powers.  

I don’t have anything else to say about this theory/prediction. However, if the series doesn’t show them, there HAS to be some influence, Easter eggs, etc. connecting to these mystic monkeys.

𝗠𝗜𝗦𝗦𝗜𝗡𝗚 𝗗𝗘𝗠𝗢𝗡 𝗕𝗨𝗟𝗟 𝗞𝗜𝗡𝗚 𝗕𝗔𝗖𝗞𝗦𝗧𝗢𝗥𝗬 𝗣𝗥𝗘𝗗𝗜𝗖𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡

Aside from Sun Wukong and Macaque having their pasts explored, the series does have the Demon Bull King appearance in these flashbacks since he was once a member of the Brotherhood, first revealed in Season 4, Episode 2, “New Adventures”, as everyone is discussing who will be the next Jade Emperor after overthrowing the current one.

From this single flashback alone, DBK was shown to be a good guy, fighting alongside his sworn brothers for they thought was right, and it does beg the question: What made him change his morality from good to bad?

In the pilot, Season 1, “A Hero is Born”, he is first introduced as the main antagonist whose goal is to conquer the world, and suddenly Sun Wukong traps him under a mountain despite DBK being his sworn brother. This minor detail is very unusual considering that in Season 3, Episode 10 “The Samadhi Fire”, showcases Sun Wukong, Demon Bull King and Ne Zha helping to separate the Samadhi Fire from Redson as a child.

Judging from this scene, the event must have taken place post to the Journey to the West, as the Monkey King isn’t wearing the circlet, as most of the flashbacks which are taking place in the Journey to the West shows him wearing the circlet given from Tang Sanzang. The pilot does show Sun Wukong wearing the same suit of armour as in Season 3, Episode 10 “The Samadhi Fire”, and it's strange how the Monkey King went from helping the Demon Bull King to fighting him. 

Either something happened between the events of removing of the Samadhi Fire and the events occurred in the pilot, or off-screen there was some conflict between the two, but set a temporary truce to help Redson with the Samadhi Fire.

The most assumed event that could pinpoint the morality change of the Demon Bull King would be when he and Princess Iron Fan met during the battle against Heaven. However, I highly doubt that. Since this event took place before the birth of Redson, and if Demon Bull King and Sun Wukong didn’t have conflict during this time period, then this accusation would be inaccurate. 

This wasn’t a theory or a prediction, however, I REALLY do feel like talking about this since it’s been bugging me for quite some time. I hope that Season 5 will be able to resolve this plot hole and perhaps it might correlate with the main plot of the next.

While I do hope, I also doubt it since the Demon Bull Family has not had much screen time in recent seasons. But simultaneously, I bet there will be a chance since the new 5th Anniversary LEGO set does display Redson working at the BBQ restaurant in Megapolis, so maybe a slim chance. 

I was going to talk about Peng and Erlang working together in Season 5, considering the current conflict with the Monkie Gang and Peng, and due to the fact that Erlang is a cousin? Brother? Or a family member of the Jade Emperor according to the Journey to the West novel, and wanted to avenge his death.

(Probably ignore this one, this was a last minute theory)

But I didn’t know what else to talk about and it does seem like the two will be working on their own.  

Anyways, I hope you all enjoy the theories that I have come up with. I haven’t gotten the chance to re-watch all of the episodes of LEGO Monkie Kid, so I mostly relied on my memory. Leave some comments about your thoughts and theories of the series or what will happen in Season 5.    

it really is a funny thing to grow up hearing stories about the Legendary Monkey King and be a giant journey to the west fanatic but if i bring it up to anyone else theyre either like ‘who is that’ or ‘oh that guy from dbz?’ and now theres an animated youtube series on it and a lego anime of it and a triple a video game and the tags i follow are full of people shipping the monkey with that immortal or something. what a time to be alive

also reblog in support of shā-sēng (sandy), the goat

Osp Jttw new video came out so i decided to draw the 4 monkeys of destruction

My designs

So, I was watching Romeo and Juliet sherlock gnomes and this scene came up and they reminded me of the journey to the west gang. Romeo as sun Wukong, Juliet as the monk, sherlock as Sha Wujing(?), and Watson as Baigujing(?). I'm not really sure if thats whats sherlock and Watson are but yeah; I might draw them as the little chaotic gang.

The 5 Pilgrims (comic series based on JTTW)

Chapter 1 is still in drawing process...

Read here: https://www.deviantart.com/l1ttl3h4v0c/art/The-5-Pilgrims-page-1-CHAPTER-1-1053253845

Characters:

Sun Wukong ^^

Tripitaka ^^

Sha Wu- WUKONG?? AAAAAAAAAASTAYAWAYFROMWUJINGPLEASE-

Zhu Bajie ^^

Ao Baihua ^^

The Six Eared Macaque ^^

Anyone else just make artwork by mistake?

i think Puss in Boots and Sun Wukong would be friends

that’s it, that’s the post

Red son doodle ‼️

I love going in circles around the kitchen table, listening to music while daydreaming about a fanfic I'll never write 'cause I have no experience with writing whatsoever 😃

Is Macaque shorter than Wukong?

Maybe...

LMK S4 SPOILERS!!

Macaque And His Therapy Monkey

You cannot tell me he doesn't rant to the little guy. Man was just vibing in the background while the others were reliving trauma, and he looked good doing it.

Also does he live in Flower Fruit Mountain now?? Are he and Sun roommates?? Did they make up off camera Orr??

Why does everything have to be shadowpeach??

I mean, don't get me wrong people can have their Ships and Headcanons as long as their not the gross ones (incest, proshipping, etc), but I've seen way too many content about it. And honestly I'm starting to think it's actually a bit overrated (Please don't attack me I beg of you),

I've also seen some toxic shippers force this on other people, (like threatening them and saying it's canon when it was never confirmed, you get the point). I personally headcanon them as brothers, and sometimes I get a bit weirded out when people sexualize them...and some people tend to do that A LOT,

I'm not saying that ALL shadowpeach shippers are like this or that they should stop shipping shadowpeach, I just want more wholesome content about the two of them, without it being involved with the ship just let them be friends or something,

This guy gets it,

No but the idea of Sun Wukong and Six Ear being brothers slaps so hard actually

Haha, good shit.