Transandrophobia - Tumblr Posts

As a trans dude, I have heard multiple people (all of whom were queer and in queer spaces) utter "kill all men" who then followed up with "Oh, I didn't mean you, silly!"

Which, yeah. I know.

You don't believe trans men are men unless you can use that to hurt us.

if you blog says "i hate men" or "kill all men", you're not surviving in queer spaces and I dont like you

Relatedly, this is why so much infighting on Tumblr is rooted in attempts at finding out who has suffered the most. Whoever quantitatively possesses the most pain, wins--and the winner gets to punish everybody else.

And it's also why folks try to invent the magical "identity which cancels out all suffering" every few years. That way, you can dismiss the pain of anyone with that identity, which means they can be punished without limit, forever.

Ten years ago, the phrase "gay men are the straight men of the LGBT community" was a real sentiment that really floated around on Tumblr. Nowadays it's "trans men are the men of the LGBT community". Both sentiments make no sense on their own. But when you couple them with the harassment campaigns, bullying, and the total dismissal of any oppression faced by both groups, then it becomes clear.

Both statements are highlighting that it is safe to publicly punish folks in these categories for claiming to be oppressed, when we all know they're lying attention-stealers distracting us from Those Who Truly Suffer.

This is why I'm not on board with "punch a Nazi" rhetoric. All that seemed to mean, to me, was that the speaker could redefine "Nazi" to mean "someone I don't like" or "someone I want to punish", and now, they can justify punching literally anybody.

And, well. The last year's work of redefining "Nazi" to mean "Jew" has shown this concern to be tragically valid.

I've been reading some stuff on punitive justice, and it made something click for me that I've observed a lot online but haven't been able to put into words before.

When someone does something wrong, that's bad, and the damage it does needs to be repaired while the person needs to try to do better in future to minimize repeating harm. We learn it in preschool - say sorry, don't do it again. If they keep at it, remove them from the situation where they can do the harm until they prove they're responsible enough to go back in.

So if it turns out someone DIDN'T do anything wrong, that should be a relief! There's no damage to fix, no internal errors to correct. Less work for everybody, literally no harm done. False alarm, all good.

The thing I've observed is, lots of people want them to have done something wrong. There's almost disappointment when it turns out there's no harm done. And I think that's because of this general undercurrent of punitive justice as morally righteous and desirable: someone does something wrong, you get to punish them. Turns out they're innocent? That's disappointing. Find another reason you get to punish them, or find another bad person you get to punish. But at the core of it is that desire to punish someone. Someone you can hurt in a way that makes you a better person for hurting them.

This particular brand of almost cannibalistic pseudo-justice is super common in tumblr, one of the most ostensibly liberal spaces on the internet; I see more borderline savagery in online discourse here than in the actually toxic parts of the internet that are just openly cruel for cruelty's sake. It's always thrown me for a loop, and has frankly also hurt me, because on the rare occasions I get personally dogpiled, it only actually stings when it makes me worry that I've legitimately hurt someone. If I did something wrong, or more realistically when I inevitably do something wrong, that would make it good and right for people to give me shit about it every day until I'm dead.

The thing that clicked for me most recently was this bit in Ijeoma Oluo's Be A Revolution:

Punitive justice is specifically, uniquely appealing to people who have suffered injustices. Of course it's the Tumblr zeitgeist. Everyone here is a marginalized person failed by at least one system. Punishing someone for perceived injustice is how someone the system has deemed worthless proves their value in blood, even if the person being punished hasn't harmed you directly - even if they haven't harmed anyone. "Righteous" anger isn't about the target in these cases, it's about the inflicter. This is how much my pain is worth.

And that kind of violent validation is so alluring and so very dangerous. It seeks an outlet, wearing the justification of justice. Who's in reach? Who's an acceptable target this week? What's a good reason to use?

Is there anything they could do that would make me stop?

As a t girl I always find the trans masc misogyny absolutely wild, like yeah I get that YOU hate having testosterone in YOUR body, but trying to force someone else to hate it to is nasty behavior

Hey trans girls! I love that y'all like estrogen so much better! I love that you like your transition and feel so much more free and fulfilled without the effects of Testosterone. That's great!!! However can we stop with the omg testosterone is evil talk??? Please? Cuz if you wanna go there I can. I could rant for hours about "why would ANYONE want girlmones???" and id have a mile long list of all the ways it made me feel shitty. However I keep that shit to myself because I understand that not everyones experience is mine. There's no excuse for the way so many trans women have torn down and insulted the gender affirming care that FINALLY made ME comfortable in MY skin. You don't get it and that's fine but save it I don't need to hear it everytime I go out and hang out with other trannies. Seriously Everytime I've gone to hangout with a group of mostly trans girls one of you can't resist insulting me and my transition and it's not fucking ok.

I hope you die in a fire you pos terf ass mf

ARE Y'ALL FUCKING TRACKING ME DOWN?!

Me: I think trans men experience bigotry for being trans men.

Y'all somehow: TERF! TERF! PEDO AND TERF!

Wild.

so this is just, by the way, like incredibly insanely transphobic

In a patriarchal society, cis men have privilege over cis women. Trans people operate on a different system due to the fact general society does not regard them as their gender, or treat them accordingly.

This is basic shit.

Of course, you will never engage in any actually good faith conversation about that though.

I don't know why this has to be spelled out, but if you are arguing that there are biases against women in society (true) because of the patriarchy, and how these biases are unconscious and therefore present even in the most progressive spaces...

You cannot simultaneously argue that unconscious transphobic biases are not present, and people don't unconsciously treat trans men closer to women then they do men.

I just want to make it clear that regardless of what you are arguing about. This is not ok:

It is NONE of anyone's concern whether or not I'm cis. Many trans kids claim online to be cis to avoid harassment, transphobia and misgendering.

Whether or not I am transmasc and pretending to be cis for those reasons, or if I'm actually a cis guy is nobody's business, ok? Like seriously it is ZERO people online's business. It affects nothing, it is potentially identifying, its personal.

For all you know, saying that could put someone at risk of being outed. Don't be an asshole.

There's some science quote out there that goes something like:

'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, if it doesn't agree with the practical its wrong'.

(let me know what the full quote is if you know it)

And I can't help but compare that to transandrophobic rhetoric which says that trans mascs have privilege over trans fems due to them being men.

And yes, in theory this is somewhat coherent, if oversimplified. Trans men are men, patriarchy values men. Therefore trans men should be more valued.

The problem is this doesn't check out. Trans men face the highest rates of domestic violence, IPV, sexual abuse, sexual assault, social ostracisation, isolation, mental health issues, denial of medical treatment, suicide attempts and more.

So even without having to get into WHY your oversimplified theory is bullshit, you should know. Its bullshit. it doesn't hold up.

Try Again.

what you don’t seem to understand is that statistics and surveys are JUST as subjective as things like theory. you seem to put things like surveys in a “practical, unbiased truth” category and things like memoirs or theory discussions about people’s actual real-life lived experience in a “impractical, biased falsehoods” category. but that’s YOUR personal judgement, not a universal opinion, and you can’t treat it like it is. statistics and surveys can be just as hypothetical and flawed as “personal experience”. in fact, most of the surveys you pull statistics from were questions answered by individuals about their personal experiences. so like, stop trying to push this arbitrary divide between “theory” and “evidence”.

'what you don’t seem to understand is that statistics and surveys are JUST as subjective as things like theory.'

Dude, Fite-Club I know this is you. You're the only person who will ever make a claim that statistics are AS SUBJECTIVE as something that is PURELY subjective.

I'm not saying statistics are perfect. But trying to argue that RECORDED TRENDS OF LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE are not less subjective than SINGULAR PEOPLE's experiences is only a claim you could make.

'most of the surveys you pull statistics from were questions answered by individuals about their personal experiences.'- Its almost like theres a difference between 'trends' and 'singular individuals'.

'stop trying to push this arbitrary divide between “theory” and “evidence”.' ...Ah yes. The notoriously 'arbitrary' divide between 2 factually different things.

Theory- An educated guess presented as an explanation for observable patterns

Evidence- Observable patterns.

If your theory does not align with observable patterns, it is WRONG.

i diagree with the first point. i believe:

'*cis*-men have privilege under the patriarchy and may act towards them oppressively whether they mean to or not'

This is because evidence suggests trans men doo not receive patriarchal privileges.

This is a prime example of 'circular reasoning', your evidence for trans men having privilege, is that all men are privileged in a patriarchal structure (your evidence for trans men having privilege is literally just 'trans men have privilege')

I FUCKING CALLED IT

THAT BITCH WITH THE PIGTAILS IS A FTM SELF-INSERT

Transmasculinity Throughout Time: Lou Alcott

Yes, you heard me. There is substantial evidence that the author of Little Women was in fact a transgender man! He actually didn’t go by the name that Little Women was published under, with family and friends he would go by Lou, Louy, or LM. His children called him “papa” and “father” and his father, Bronson Alcott, called him his son. He said in 1882, “I am more than half persuaded that I am a man’s soul, put by some freak of nature into a woman’s body.” As a child, he said in a journal, “I don’t care much for girls things. People think I’m wild and queer.” He would pass as a man at masked parties for fun, and delighted in people’s reactions. For his entire life, he expressed this identification as a man, and the character of Jo in Little Women was in part a self insert character based on this. So why don’t we hear about him as a trans man? Well, it’s just not convenient for most people to believe that a beloved book about girls becoming women was written by a man.

trans men aren't cis women, though. you get that, right? you get that trans men aren't cis women? and that doesn't change even if you think they are?

Idk what trans man needs to hear this but you're NOT evil or disgusting for being a man. You do NOT have to suffer for the sins of the patriarchy committed by cis dudes. Being a man doesn't invalidate the misogyny you experienced growing up or experience now. Being a man doesn't mean you deserve to be isolated. Being a man doesn't mean you're inherently predatory or scary. You didn't "choose" this, and finding your true self is NOT "betraying the community" because you happen to be a man and/or masculine rather than a woman and/or feminine. You ARE allowed to be upset when people "affirm" your gender by malgendering you.

You DO deserve a community that uplifts you. You DO deserve to experience trans joy. You DO deserve to have your voices heard and your struggles recognized. Wanting the bare minimum of solidarity is NOT "making everything about trans men".

Trans rights are human rights

Trans people are people

It's not hard to understand

TERFs on trans men having parties to celebrate getting top surgery:

Their entitlement to our bodies truly knows no bounds.

With certain people, (like you, for example), for me to not be confused, I can probably use one pronoun per sentence (they/them one, he/him the next).

I may need to clarify that the swapping pronoun per sentence is the same person, however, as it could be confusing to someone like me if they don't have context sometimes.

This is not the same with they/them and they/them only like with way too many cishetero adults I have interacted with (they always got confused when I said my "sister" then used they/them and not she/her, believing I meant plural when I didn't say "sisters," which, writing this currently, pisses me off a little bit).

This is only the case with the gendered—and neo—pronouns (for some reason), but it's also slightly worse when they/them is paired up with either group for me to grasp (when it isn't me saying it. I apologize, I am very dumb, but once you tell me I'll understand).

I didn't realize some people didn't like it when only one of their preferred pronoun sets was used, as the only interaction with someone with multiple pronouns on a daily basis is a friend I have both online and IRL who uses uses all, but only because they don't care what you call them as long as you're being respectful and are clearly referring to them.

For this, I apologize.

I truly don't mind and even like they/them pronouns but every time I've tried to use them in addition to he/him, even people I've known a while switched exclusively to they/them and never uttered he/him (or even she/her, surprisingly!) again, almost like they never saw me as a real man idk...

This makes me sad.

You guys never deserved this, and you still fucking don't. The fact that you still deal with this is just so goddamn upsetting.

And I know I am feminine to the core (and also a woman), but even I fucking know that this shit shouldn't be considered "the norm."

The fact that parents (as well as doctors in certain circumstances) still force their kids into "being" their AGAB regardless on who they are as people is fucking awful. And I strongly hate how this is how it is, currently.

I know it can get better, but it sure doesn't fucking look like it, at the moment. Change is probably just be taking its sweet-ass time, which is goddamn infuriating (what can I say? I'm impatient as fuck).

Why is it so fucking hard for us as a society to just fucking accept each other for our differences like we've seen in every other goddamn species on the fucking planet? It shouldn't be that hard.

If the person isn't fucking hurting anyone (or doesn't have a history of doing so), we should just fucking accept them and move on. No prejudice or anything to get in the way.

Trans men and transmascs aren't gonna be a goddamn danger to anyone for just being trans or men. The fact that other women don't accept that pisses me off.

And the fact that I share a gender identity with morons that, frankly, might be the ones putting you guys in danger and not vice versa pisses me off sometimes, ngl.

Like, I love being a woman, don't get me wrong. It's just some of these fucking idiots who I SHARE MY GENDER IDENTITY WITH are putting you guys in danger, and I hate that so goddamn much.

This fact always makes me so fucking upset. People always talk about the struggles of trans women/fems—which does happen and needs to fucking change because it fucking sucks—yet always want to ignore the struggles of trans men/mascs or pretend it doesn't happen, and that any trans men/masc who speaks out about their experiences is a liar and misogynist which isn't fucking true at all.

Like you should be able to speak out about the bullshit you face and not get backlash 'cause it is bullshit that you've dealt with it, and you have a voice that deserves to be fucking heard.

The moment we as a society can finally get on that page I hope I am alive so I can fucking see it. This shit is taking too goddamn long.

Being forcefully raised as a woman is not any less traumatic and emotionally repressive as being forcefully raised as a man. Femininity is not inherently pure and safe. Coercing someone to perform femininity is not any less toxic than coerced masculinity. Being dysphoric around femininity or having trauma from women doesn’t make you a misogynist.

I love how my mom has appears to have decided that since I am a guy now I am inherently more dangerous and more likely to commit violence because in her head masculinity = automatically dangerous and hyperviolent and angry all the time

Begging the gods of Tumblr once again to let me go JUST ONE SINGULAR DAY without seeing a post that's cool and I like and agree with, but randomly for no reason the OP decides to tack on one little sentence throwing trans men&mascs under the bus. Fun fact: whatever point you're making is NOT strengthened by adding a little aside downplaying transmasc oppression. Like... never. It never helps anybody. Most of the transfems that I know also hate when you do this to us. Just leave us transmascs alone for one fucking second. Stop bending over backwards to remember to go out of your way to deny us our realities. It is so easy to just not do that.