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Doomed vs. Void Timelines

A doomed timeline is associated with time travel. It is an offshoot timeline, branching from the Alpha Timeline. It is destined for failure, for an ill fate. It can never succeed because, by itself, it cannot propagate reality's existence. A doomed timeline invariably ends when someone travels in time to undo its events.

So what happens when someone retcons events? Retconning is different from time travel. It doesn't create a doomed timeline because the timeline is the Alpha, not a branching offshoot. It doesn't create a stable time loop, either, because events are actually changed, as opposed to linked by causality. Doomed timelines and stable time loops are the results of time travel, not retcons. So what is the result of a retcon?

A retcon, instead, creates a void timeline. When the Alpha Timeline is changed, it renders previous Alpha (or canon) events null, void, ineffective, cancelled out.

The Alpha Timeline is the timeline of Light; it is the most important, significant, and relevant timeline, the path that successfully propagates reality and existence itself. Retcons turn the Alpha Timeline's Light to Void, making previously canon events unknown, irrelevant, ineffective, and as though they do not exist.

So, to clarify:

Doomed timeline = Offshoot timeline events undone via time travel.

Void timeline = Alpha timeline events undone via retcon.

Vriska's Return and the Alpha Timeline's Fate

There is something downright ominous about Vriska’s return. Something about it just seems so foreboding and …wrong.

It brings to mind John’s reaction to Caliborn’s retelling of events in “Homosuck”:

Her return is so ominous, evidence suggests that John will eventually retcon his retcon to restore the original Alpha Timeline.

But what makes Vriska’s return so foreboding? What significance will this new Alpha Timeline have upon reality? And why must John undo this change?

Overview of Topics:

Personal growth

Terezi’s inverted behavior

Characters’ meta-awareness

Retcons, void timelines, and semi-stable retcon loops

Caliborn’s statements

Doc Scratch’s omniscience

Alt!Calliope

Gamzee’s importance

Vriska’s Thief of Light and Page of Void roles

Horses: the Ultimate Bad Omen

Vriska’s return is disturbing because it undoes all the experiences and personal growth the heroes have undergone for the past three years on their journey through the Furthest Ring. The very notion contradicts something in story Hussie himself emphasized as important:

They have to face all those issues themselves, or they will never learn and grow as people. […] The journey itself is more important than the destination. The struggle is what builds character and teaches us about ourselves and about life.

He elaborates, comparing Trickster Mode shenanigans to Mario using a Star to overcome obstacles:

But the point is, [Mario] didn't really win. That magic star was actually devastating to his development as a human being. WHY. Because he skipped over many critical trials on his spiritual journey. Mario NEEDS to stomp on all those mushrooms. He NEEDS to bonk those bricks with his head, for the sake of his personal growth. By using the star, he is denying himself many powerful moments of catharsis.

This idea very much applies to John’s retcon powers and using them to change the Alpha Timeline, the events of the story. Like Trickster Mode and Mario's Star, retconning seems like an easy fix, a cheap, deus ex machina solution. It’s cheating. Dave even states, “messing with the alpha timeline [...] almost seems heretical.” Solving problems by retconning them out of existence is ineffectual and does not lead to growth.

By Terezi having John reset the timeline, undoing Vriska’s death, many of the characters will no longer face the challenges and hardships they previously would have. Terezi undoes the guilt that torments her, her abusive relationship with Gamzee, and the healing of her eyesight.

It is absolutely understandable that Terezi would want to do this! How many people wish they could undo something in their lives, especially mistakes they deeply regret making? How many people would change these mistakes if given the capability? However, in doing so, Terezi is denying herself the opportunity to grow and to heal from these experiences.

The events of our lives and the actions we take shape, define, and refine who we are as individuals. By having John retcon Vriska’s death, Terezi is essentially changing who she is and who she will become. Consequently, she’s changing who the other characters are, as well. Terezi is acting as a Witch of Heart, one who changes and controls the core identity of individuals.

The comic even visually hints at this role behavior when Terezi wears Jade’s Witch shoes:

Her Witch of Heart subrole should support her Seer of Mind role, not the other way around! Using the subrole, one’s inverse, as the lead role is not a healthy mode of operation! It spells disaster! This behavior foretells dire consequences.

There is something else foreboding about Vriska’s return. The characters all seem to intuitively KNOW these events are not supposed to happen. They KNOW things have been changed, that this is not how the story is supposed to go, that this is not the intended path of the Alpha Timeline. They have an almost meta-awareness of it.

JANE: But it wouldn't surprise me if the one who dealt my fatal blow was the leader of the raid [Vriska].

JANE: This was the unanticipated factor. JANE: Their leader was someone who was not expected to show up with them at all. […] JANE: You see, Callie, your historical documents make no mention of the leader of the raid, because originally, the curtains closed early on this plucky customer. JANE: But the hero was written back into our story by some inscrutable gambit of circumstance which we may never fully understand.

JOHN: i randomly appeared and knocked vriska out cold, just like the scarf told me to. […] TEREZI: YOU W3R3N'T SUPPOS3D TO DO TH1S! TEREZI: 1 W4S SUPPOS3D TO K1LL H3R! TEREZI: YOU JUST DOOM3D US 4LL!!!

Does Terezi’s reaction sound familiar? It should. Dave reacts the same way when John accidentally “zaps in,” interrupting his and Jade’s conversation and retconning events that originally occurred.

DAVE: you being here DAVE: thats not supposed to happen […] DAVE: its not supposed to go down like this i can feel it JOHN: i know! […] JADE: whatever dave and i were going to argue about JADE: i think the moment has passed JADE: the whole thing is kind of ruined to be honest

Dave has the same thoughts as Terezi: that John should not be there, these events are not supposed to happen, and John has doomed the timeline. John explains to each of them that this is not the case because it’s “not time travel,” yet Dave and Terezi remain skeptical and uneasy.

This meta-awareness and sense of a doomed timeline occurs elsewhere, too: when Aranea puts on the Ring of Life and invades the merged session.

MEENAH: you know all youre doing is making another doomed timeline where everyone dies right ARANEA: Of course I know that.

After the events of Game Over, Roxy and John sense the timeline is doomed, as well.

ROXY: this is starting to feel an awful lot like the end […] ROXY: maybe we should just ROXY: admit to ourselves this is probably what its like when you find yourself in a timeline where everything went wrong ROXY: and you know it means youre doomed

But here’s the thing. In each of those cases, the timeline isn’t "doomed" in the traditional sense, events undone because of time travel. In both cases, events are actually retconned by John, making the timeline not doomed, but void.

John voids the Game Over timeline by going back and retrieving the Ring of Life, preventing Aranea from obtaining it.

Regarding Dave and Jade’s confrontation, John purposefully retcons his retcon, setting events back to how they originally transpired, voiding his interference. He creates a semi-stable retcon loop.

In the new Alpha Timeline, because the characters have this same meta-awareness that these events are not supposed to happen—that Vriska is not supposed to be alive—and they sense that the timeline is doomed, I suspect John will retcon his retcon again, undoing the undoing of Vriska’s death, and creating another semi-stable retcon loop.

Why? Meta-narratively speaking, so events will play out how they originally were intended, how the characters KNOW and FEEL they are supposed to happen. So it won’t undo all the character growth the characters undergo. Besides,

It's also logical, since there is essentially nothing new in paradox space. Everything that can happen is either a visual or substantive reproduction of something which has already transpired on a timeline, offshoot or otherwise.

Another semi-stable retcon loop is bound to occur at some point. We were shown the first one for a reason.

Aside from all the parallels to events surrounding John's previous semi-stable retcon loop, more evidence supports a retcon of this new Alpha Timeline.

Caliborn points out the irony that Vriska “ACTUALLY THOUGHT SHE WAS GOING TO BE RELEVANT” and tells her to “KEEP DREAMING,” which is visualized by a “PSYCHE-OUT!!!” watermark and Vriska losing her head.

In the current iteration of the Alpha Timeline, Vriska’s new life state gives her the opportunity to have greater relevance and importance than before, when she was dead. “Dreaming” can even be a euphemism for “dead,” as death in dream bubbles compares to the state of dreaming and never waking up.

Caliborn seems to know Vriska will not be as important as she thinks she will be, and by telling her to “KEEP DREAMING,” he’s effectively telling her to stay dead. If John retcons his retcon, and Vriska actually remains dead after all, not only will this fulfill Caliborn’s statement, but it would prove to be the ultimate “PSYCHE-OUT!!!” to everyone, particularly to us readers.

Doc Scratch provides another indication John will retcon his retcon. Doc Scratch claims to have “absolute mastery of the Alpha Timeline” alone, any deviations withering from his perception. If the Alpha Timeline remains on its present course, it would make Doc Scratch either a liar or incorrect about this mastery.

When John retcons Vriska’s death, it voids events of the original Alpha Timeline, events Doc Scratch explicitly shows us.

    John's retcon turns the original Alpha Timeline, the events Doc Scratch shows us, into a void timeline. If Doc Scratch’s knowledge only pertains to this pre-retcon Alpha Timeline, his mastery is not of the true Alpha, but a voided version of it.

Doc Scratch is omniscient and does not lie. Yet at the same time, he has difficulty with Void.

AG: Sure you know a lot, 8ut I know for a FACT there's stuff you don't know. That's true. But the gaps in my knowledge exist by design. They are the pillars of shadow on which my comprehensive vision is built. Necessary pockets of void meant to effectuate outcomes I've foreseen and which will require my influence. Each dark pocket, in time, will be filled.

Occasionally I discover there are things I have not always known. It gives me the opportunity to make deductions, which are practically always flawless. […] But sometimes that is the nature of these hollows in my perception. It feels a bit like dark water, sloshing about the cavity in my head.

Wouldn’t it make sense for the new, current Alpha Timeline to be eventually retconned back to how events originally transpired? It would make the present Alpha, wherein Vriska lives, a void timeline. Void, which can escape Doc Scratch’s perception.

Considering Vriska “occupied a blind spot” to the Condesce, Jane, and Jade with her return, it seems reasonable she could occupy one of Doc Scratch’s “dark pockets,” as well.

If John retcons his retcon and creates a semi-stable retcon loop, it would validate Doc Scratch's mastery of the final, true Alpha Timeline, and it would reinforce the notion of pockets of Void in his knowledge.

But all of this raises another question: If eventually John is going to retcon the new, current Alpha Timeline back to its original state, what importance does the present timeline have?

The answer is Calliope’s alternate reality self.

JADE: like i said, [Alt!Calliope] just finished telling me that she was able to beat her brother in this reality JADE: but apparently, that wasnt supposed to happen? JADE: so she lived out the rest of her life in a doomed timeline and eventually died

Now, granted, this Calliope could be any Calliope from any regular doomed timeline, but I don’t think this is the case. This Calliope seems too important and special to be a random doomed one. This Calliope indicates her story is tied somehow to our John, the same John with retcon abilities and unstuck in canon.

JADE: and then she did this kinda fancy transition [...] to a story about MY brother... who was stuck in a doomed timeline too […] JADE: almost all our friends had died JADE: and johns only hope was to return to his planet, and attempt to complete his personal quest

Jade’s wording about Calliope is suspiciously similar to descriptions of timelines John retcons: Her defeat over Caliborn isn’t “supposed to happen.” If this Calliope is one who retroactively embodies Paradox Space, it would make sense for her to have been a part of the Alpha Timeline at one point, even if that timeline is eventually retconned. A standard doomed Calliope likely would not have enough importance to have such drastic influence over all of reality itself.

The difference between this Calliope and all other doomed Calliopes, why she unprecedentedly dominated her brother, could be in how they were raised: without Gamzee’s influence. In the present Alpha Timeline, Gamzee is suspiciously absent at the end of the three-year journey.

  The meaning of Terezi’s ominous message, “you don’t need him,” has not yet been explained. Perhaps it refers to Gamzee. If removed from the picture, he cannot raise the cherubs, influencing their upbringing, personalities, resources, and knowledge.

    Remember, just as Calliope is “not supposed to” dominate, Gamzee is “not supposed to” die. Hussie even states he is “not aware of a single timeline in which [Gamzee] dies.” If Gamzee only ever dies in a void timeline, each time the Alpha retconned so his death never occurs, Hussie’s supposed lack of its awareness makes sense.

If John retcons his retcon, it will make the current Alpha Timeline, wherein Vriska lives, a void timeline in actuality. It seems fitting that a Thief of Light from a void timeline would steal the Alpha Timeline’s Light—its importance and relevance. Not to mention her Page of Void subrole, empowering others to exploit Void—a void timeline—maximizing its use.

However, everything the heroes have done so far has advanced Lord English’s machinations. What exactly will happen is unclear, but all the ominous foreshadowing surrounding Vriska's return hints that something disastrous will occur and force John to go back and retcon this timeline.

One clue is Jane’s phrasing of Vriska’s return and the raid she leads in the merged session:

JANE: The tilt between the friendly and felonious was a true horse race again. A real barn burner in the brewing.

Jane’s colorful wording metaphorically surrounds them with horses.

VRISKA: I think I've just decided that 8eing surrounded 8y horses might 8e the ultim8 8ad omen. Nothing good can ever follow or precede those circumstances.

The Ultimate Bad Omen. Vriska’s return is ominous indeed.

Hey have you read the upd8? --it seem like there's going to be two alphatimelines. One with retconning and one without and (maybe..?) one with green sun and the other with pink sun, one where all the kids complete reality's time loop and one where they escape

Huh! Interesting! I hadn’t considered it that way. But yeah, I do think there will be two distinct Alpha Timelines. That’s basically what my Vriska’s Return and the Alpha Timeline’s Fate theory suggests. I guess it’s slightly different, though. But, yeah. Hmm…

So, are the kids stuck forever? Or is Cali's statement wrong bc the chest currently in the hands of Meenah or Aradia, or is it impossible to get them out? Please explain, this can woo some people grasp the juju

Well, the way I see it, these are the possibilities:

This is an alternate timeline, either doomed, void, or split Alpha Timeline.

These are decoys of the kids.

Caliborn is wrong; they’re not actually trapped.

Caliborn is wrong; they ARE trapped, but somehow they will be freed.

The kids ARE permanently trapped, but will be “recreated” somehow.

Some other option I haven’t thought of.

I’m inclined to think it’s Option 1, but at this point, there’s really no way to tell which it is.

There’s just no way the Beta Kids will be permanently trapped in the House Juju (Homestuck, heh) in the ALPHA-Alpha Timeline with no hope whatsoever, though.

Someone just pointed me to your "Vriska’s Return and the Alpha Timeline’s Fate" theory. I have to say it's very interesting, very well researched, and many of its points and premises -- like how Vriska fixing everything is VERY OMINOUS -- all seem like real, valid story factors we should be drawing conclusions from. However, reading the post, there was one glaring omission, one that explains why Vriska's return and "getting the star" is so ominous: What about the Green Sun's destruction???

Wow, thank you! I am incredibly flattered, as I really admire you as a Homestuck theorist! ^_^  (A lot of my own theories are based on yours.)

Anyway, regarding the Green Sun, I wasn’t sure about how to go about handling that. I do think its destruction will happen; your theory makes a lot of sense, and, essentially, I agree with it. Problem is, I couldn’t figure out how to incorporate it into my own theory. So I didn’t include it. It’s definitely something I’d be interested in exploring, though.

Thanks!

Some related thoughts and speculation

Doc Scratch:

Doc Scratch does indeed make pranks on rare occasion. I’m not sure it’d be something quite so elaborate and involving blatant lies, though. But it’ll be interesting to see if/when he does play another prank.

Calliope and the Third Scratch:

The “doomed” God Tier Calliope likely dominated because perhaps Vriska raised the Cherubs instead of Gamzee. Paralleling Caliborn, Calliope dominated prematurely and forcibly by having Caliborn’s dream self killed. It's likely this Calliope embodies the current Paradox Space.

Post-Scratch Calliope, the one who plays, is one who dominates naturally rather than prematurely. She will fully integrate/absorb Caliborn into her being, as opposed to expelling him, thus eventually becoming Calmasis.

Post-Scratch, the Cherubs are raised by Davesprite.

The third Scratch will not only reset the Cherub’s universe, but it might reset all of Paradox Space, as well. If so, Calmasis might be the one to embody the rebooted version, which is probably the new reality the heroes must escape to.

Vriska and the Green Sun:

Like how Roxy tagged along with John when he retconned the Game Over timeline, Vriska might end up tagging along if/when John retcons the current timeline. If so, she'll be a part of the true Alpha Timeline while her original iteration, punk!Vriska, remains dead in the dream bubbles.

Alternatively, Vriska dies in this timeline, and somehow SHE obtains the Ring of Life, thus reviving. (I don’t think punk!Vriska will be the one to do that.)

In either case, the Vriska of the current timeline will be the one to steal the Green Sun’s light.

Re: Vriska's Return and the Alpha Timeline's Fate

A few things–

Doc Scratch doesn’t lie, but he does tell pranks – foreshadowing which has never been fulfilled up to this point. Even if he’s not there to give a “Hee Hee,” the Egbertpunch – placed at a critical moment in Scratch’s elaborate narrative – fulfills the requirements of a prank.

If Jade’s Calliope is from a void timeline, then what’s the point of a Third Scra… actually, hm. What if this supposedly “doomed” Calliope – the one with no friends and no frame of reference for understanding human emotions – becomes this reality, the cruel and harsh Paradox Space we’re familiar with, while pre-retcon Callie… actually, no, that still leaves another Scratch out of the picture. Sorry, just thinking aloud here.

It seems like this (retconned) Vriska is going to be the one who steals the Green Sun’s light. That can’t just not happen… maybe that will be what causes John to try to retcon his retcon, but it’s too cosmically important to undo?

Not saying this theory is wrong, I actually really like it.

1) If John ends up re-retconning Vriskas death and the meteor crew goes through the personal growth that they're supposed to go through, what does that mean for Jade? Wouldnt John and Davesprite still be dead? And John knows that he was responsible for for their deaths so would he try to do something about that? I dont think hed try to retcon their deaths since he'd be weaseling his way out of the deal he made with Typheus and thats sounds like a bad idea

2 fin) (Though John was the one who came up with the idea to zap everyone to where Caliborn was and look how THAT turned out) Do he think he might try bring Jade to where the meteor crew is? Though that will essentially rewrite all the character development the meteor crew went through on their original journey… man this is getting confusing!

I don’t think John is going to mess with the timeline in any drastic way relating to Jade. I’m sure he realizes there would be consequences for interfering, likely own death. So if John retcons the retcon, I think Jade will still be alone in the new timeline, too.

I could see John making small influences, though, such as writing a note of encouragement to her or appearing briefly to say he’s okay. But as far as undoing John and Davesprite’s death or bringing Jade to the meteor, no; that would be interfering too much.

Alone!Jade would really be the main difference between the “fixed” Game Over timeline (when John traveled to “R3UN1ON” to get the ring) and the final Alpha Timeline. Note how there are two Johns at “R3UN1ON”; that probably won’t be the case in the final Alpha.

Of course, it’s possible in the re-retconned timeline, Jade won’t be alone at all, and it’ll play out almost exactly as it did originally. But… eh, that doesn’t seem likely to me. Who knows, though?

The Retcon Timeline

Timeline includes events that actually happen, plus what I suspect will happen.

I am almost certain this is wrong, but it's a starting point.

Some notes:

Calliope must be from a non-LOWASplode timeline, where John is present on the golden ship. (MINISTRIFE is optional, since that happened in a dream bubble.) Her knowledge of events comes from this timeline, which she most likely learned through Skaia's vision clouds. Some events she could have learned from Rose's book, but it doesn't seem like John passing out on LOWAS would be something found in the book.

Caliborn is from a non-LOWASplode timeline, as well, because he rips that page out of Calliope's book.

Unless Caliborn's monitors can show events from any timeline, Caliborn must be witnessing events from a timeline where Erisolsprite is Jake's sprite, Arquiusprite is Dirk’s sprite, John is dead, and the kids get trapped in the house Juju and trap the Lord English fusion in Lil Cal. (Caliborn does seem to be aware of John’s ring going missing, though. Hmm. Yeah, it’s pretty likely he can view all timelines, what with being a Lord of Time and all.)

The Caliborn who becomes trapped in Lil Cal apparently has no idea who Arquiusprite is. The Alpha Kids, too, although that’s ambiguous enough that it’s open to interpretation. I’m not sure what to make of this. It’s possible the Caliborn who witnessed this event is making an assumption, but... I dunno.

I'm having difficulty placing both the Green Sun's destruction and the Third Scratch on the timeline.

Right now it seems like Vriska stealing the Green Sun's light will happen in a timeline where everyone's alive and well. I think the purpose of its destruction will be:

To destroy Paradox Space à la Big Crunch,

To hinder the Green Sun powers of Jack Noir (and presumably Lord English),

To create a breach for the heroes to escape both Paradox Space and also the Third Scratch (similar to the kids escaping through the hole in the Fourth Wall during their Scratch).

The kids need to be around if #3 is going to happen.

I have a feeling the Third Scratch is meant to happen in a timeline different from the one where Caliborn et al. are trapped in Lil Cal. Mostly because Dave and Caliborn both need to be around. (Remember the "whilst the pimp's in the crib" prophecy.) I suppose time travel is possible after Jujutrapped (retcons, probably not, since John's trapped), but that would mean these events happen in a doomed timeline, and that doesn't really make sense.

I get the impression the Third Scratch is meant to occur in Caliborn-who-made-Homosuck's timeline (or a branch), but I can't make sense of that either.

The answer to all of this is probably another retcon and timeline branch somewhere. But, just... no. My head already hurts from all this. I’ll sort it out another time.

I'm wondering do u still think that john will retcon his retcon due to these recent event of upd8s?

I’m becoming increasingly doubtful of the double retcon theory as the comic has progressed. If only because we’re running out of time, and also it seems that a lot of character development has happened since then.

However, there’s so much foreshadowing for it that NEEDS to be cashed in somehow. Some of the evidence for a double retcon will need to be otherwise addressed if it ends up NOT happening, such as Doc Scratch’s mastery of the Alpha Timeline. So I’d still like to believe it will happen on some level? And it’s still possible that it could happen. But I really don’t know anymore. We’ll just have to see.

Karkat: Brings up clowns

There is no end though there is a start in space. — Infinity. It has (its) own power, it ruins, and it goes though there is a start also in the star. — Finite. Only the person who (has) wisdom can read the most foolish one from the history. The fish that lives in the sea doesn't know the world in the land. It also ruins and goes if they have wisdom. It is funnier that man exceeds the speed of light than fish start living in the land. It can be said that this is (a) final ultimatum from the god to the people who can fight.

(This trash weeb admin is still not over Steins; Gate T^T)