Lord English - Tumblr Posts
The Retcon Timeline
Timeline includes events that actually happen, plus what I suspect will happen.
I am almost certain this is wrong, but it's a starting point.
Some notes:
Calliope must be from a non-LOWASplode timeline, where John is present on the golden ship. (MINISTRIFE is optional, since that happened in a dream bubble.) Her knowledge of events comes from this timeline, which she most likely learned through Skaia's vision clouds. Some events she could have learned from Rose's book, but it doesn't seem like John passing out on LOWAS would be something found in the book.
Caliborn is from a non-LOWASplode timeline, as well, because he rips that page out of Calliope's book.
Unless Caliborn's monitors can show events from any timeline, Caliborn must be witnessing events from a timeline where Erisolsprite is Jake's sprite, Arquiusprite is Dirk’s sprite, John is dead, and the kids get trapped in the house Juju and trap the Lord English fusion in Lil Cal. (Caliborn does seem to be aware of John’s ring going missing, though. Hmm. Yeah, it’s pretty likely he can view all timelines, what with being a Lord of Time and all.)
The Caliborn who becomes trapped in Lil Cal apparently has no idea who Arquiusprite is. The Alpha Kids, too, although that’s ambiguous enough that it’s open to interpretation. I’m not sure what to make of this. It’s possible the Caliborn who witnessed this event is making an assumption, but... I dunno.
I'm having difficulty placing both the Green Sun's destruction and the Third Scratch on the timeline.
Right now it seems like Vriska stealing the Green Sun's light will happen in a timeline where everyone's alive and well. I think the purpose of its destruction will be:
To destroy Paradox Space à la Big Crunch,
To hinder the Green Sun powers of Jack Noir (and presumably Lord English),
To create a breach for the heroes to escape both Paradox Space and also the Third Scratch (similar to the kids escaping through the hole in the Fourth Wall during their Scratch).
The kids need to be around if #3 is going to happen.
I have a feeling the Third Scratch is meant to happen in a timeline different from the one where Caliborn et al. are trapped in Lil Cal. Mostly because Dave and Caliborn both need to be around. (Remember the "whilst the pimp's in the crib" prophecy.) I suppose time travel is possible after Jujutrapped (retcons, probably not, since John's trapped), but that would mean these events happen in a doomed timeline, and that doesn't really make sense.
I get the impression the Third Scratch is meant to occur in Caliborn-who-made-Homosuck's timeline (or a branch), but I can't make sense of that either.
The answer to all of this is probably another retcon and timeline branch somewhere. But, just... no. My head already hurts from all this. I’ll sort it out another time.
Thoughts and musings on the upcoming battle
Reflection on the 5/13/15 update with potential strategies, considerations, and predictions.
The best team to face the Becs would ironically be the "least important/effective" characters: Tavros, Jaspers, and the Mayor---plus Jade and GCat.
Jaspers could be a great distraction for them because cat. Actually, there’s probably even two of them around.
Tavros could use his communing abilities to control the Becs, plus potentially GCat to use as a distraction.
The Mayor would probably be safe because PM is his friend. He’s destined to face Bec Noir, anyway.
Jade, either asleep or awake, would occupy the Becs' attention, be safe from them (and protected by them!), and has the same First Guardian abilities.
As long as the Condesce is sufficiently distracted, they'd all be good.
Jack English vs. Dirk, Dave, and possibly surprise Davesprite would make a nice callback to when Bro and Davesprite fought against Jack on LOWAS. Remember how the final prototyping gave him First Guardian powers, which turned the tide of battle?
What if that happens with Jack English, such as obtaining the golden cuestaff and that very same ring? LOWAS (I assume it’s there now) is one of the closest planets to Jack English, too, so the battle could occur in the very same spot!
If Davesprite is around, he risks being influenced by the Condesce like Jade, since he’s part bird.
The idea of Karkat facing his old frienemy Spades Slick is delicious. If anyone can convince Slick to form an alliance, it's Karkat.
Any of the trolls facing the Condesce is probably dangerous because of her manipulation powers. That mostly just leaves the kids.
Nannasprite's probably around. She'd be great as part of the healing team, since she's alt!Jane and has healing abilities, too.
If there’s an extra Nannasprite who tagged along on LOWAS, even better.
Remember Casey's undead army on LOMAX? That has potential to show up again, too. If the Condesce uses her powers to control them, BAD NEWS. If not, allies ahoy! I imagine the golden battleship is still there, too, since Aranea wasn't around to move it; they could use that, as well.
During the fracas, Gamzee will probably escape. (Don't turn your back on the body!) Plus, he most certainly will travel back in time to at least give Lil Cal to CD to create Jack English in the first place. That has to happen somehow, since Vriska apparently didn’t do it. Gamzee might also prototype the final sprite. Who knows what else he'll do?
Vriska is leaving, yes. My guess is to raise the Cherubs, but we really don't know. (She's already hijacked Gamzee's role for practically everything else, plus she has other Gamzee parallels.) What if she returns in time to give the final blow to the Condesce, being the one to officially kill her? It'd mirror her dealing the final blow to the Black King of their session, plus... She'd likely inherit Lord English's curse. Lord English has already been manipulating her and using her to his advantage anyway; the curse would just make it official.
Caliborn’s session consists of pool ball planets he has to sink in order...
...Saving the 8-ball planet for last.
Similarly, Lord English is destroying dream bubbles and cracking paradox space in a procession, seeking to destroy Calliope:
UU: now he is completely obsessed with finding my soUl and wiping me oUt for good, even if it means tearing apart the reality that sUrroUnds Us. UU: he will never feel he has won Until all traces of me are gone.
And where is Calliope?
In a dream bubble resembling an 8-ball, the final ball to sink in order to win the game.
The Mirthful Messiahs: Lord English and Calmasis?
We already know Lord English is a fusion of the souls of Caliborn, Arquiusprite, and ½ Gamzee.
But what if there’s a Calliope counterpart? A fusion consisting of Alt!Calliope, Davepetasprite^2, and ½ Gamzee.
Gamzee states that he finally understood his Mirthful Messiahs were always both him, :o) and Do:, who seem to represent both Caliborn and Calliope. Later we learn that Gamzee is literally a component of Lord English, (likely) one of his Mirthful Messiahs. Wouldn’t it make sense for his other half to be a part of his other Mirthful Messiah? And wouldn’t that messiah also represent Calliope?
For now, let’s call this fusion Calmasis. Perhaps the Mirthful Messiahs are Lord English and Calmasis, and both are central to the end of Paradox Space.
Recall Sollux and Terezi’s exchange:
GC: WH4TS 4N 4NG3L TA: 2ome terriible mythiical demon. TA: wiith the2e awful feathery wiing2. GC: Y1K3S TA: paradox 2pace u2e2 them two u2her iin the end. GC: HOW DO3S 1T KNOW WH4T 4NG3L TO US3... ........
Caliborn and Calliope are both Cherubs—or angels—and Lord English is obviously a “terrible mythical demon” who “ushers in the end.” However, notice Sollux says “them,” and Terezi essentially asks “which angel?”—implying more than one. While Alt!Calliope alone could represent another angel (as could Bec Noir and PM), it makes more sense for Gamzee also to be included in a Calliope counterpart to LE.
So if Caliborn + ½ Gamzee + Arquiusprite = Lord English, it seems reasonable for there to be a Calliope counterpart with parallel components: Alt!Calliope + ½ Gamzee + X = Calmasis.
Davepeta seems the most likely candidate for X.
For one, Arquius is a sprite consisting of Equius and a version of Dirk. Davepeta is also a sprite (squared), consisting of Nepeta (Equius’ moirail) and Dave (the other Strider). Sprite + Troll + Human (well, and also Crow + Sprite). None of the other sprites contain representations of both a troll and a human.
Davepeta also has this inexplicable desire to fight Lord English.
DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < i have this weird urge...... DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < to go fight lord english […] DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < im just strangely drawn to the idea DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < i wasnt at all before as a really depressed bird version of dave DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < and nepeta didnt even know who he WAS until recently DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < but now it sounds cool suddenly DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < i f33l like... DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < the exact blend of people i am DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < is a being that he should in some way be vulnerable to DAVEPETASPRITE^2: B33 < i cant even explain why i f33l that way
This makes absolute sense if Davepeta is destined to become a part of Calmasis.
Caliborn even distastes Davepeta’s colors. Perhaps that means something, as well.
uu: ORANGE AND EMERALD. uNPLEASANT TOGETHER. uu: I HAVE NO TASTE FOR PuMPKINS. OR ANY HORRID VEGETABLE MATTER.
Alt!Calliope is already established as a key to defeating Lord English. Dave is also crucial for defeating LE.
As for Nepeta… During Murderstuck, the only trolls Gamzee kills are Equius and Nepeta. (The other trolls are all killed by others.) We already know how Equius’ death is essential for the eventual creation of Lord English, one of Gamzee’s Mirthful Messiahs. Perhaps Nepeta’s death is intentional and crucial for the same reason—for the eventual creation of Gamzee’s other messiah. (On another note, Roxy even makes a comment about Fefeta being a secret weapon, which, while sounding absurd, is also intriguing, considering Fefeta is a sprite consisting of Nepeta, just like Davepeta.)
In a previous post, I discussed an alternate interpretation of a passage from [S] Seer: Descend.
If Paradox Spaces uses both Lord English and Calmasis to “usher in the end”… And if Calmasis contains the souls of Gamzee and Davepeta along with Alt!Calliope…
A maimed clown (Gamzee), an undead cat (Nepetasprite), and an impaled crow (Davesprite) would make three of the four “held in reverence for the eternity they serve to cut short.”
A fusion of Alt!Calliope, Gamzee, and Davepeta in the form of Calmasis is the perfect parallel counterpart to Lord English—both of the Mirthful Messiahs and mythical demons ushering the destruction of Paradox Space.
“Meat” and “Candy” Thoughts and Speculation
Spoilers ahead for anyone who hasn’t read both.
“Meat” and “Candy” are essentially fanfiction—perhaps specifically fix-it-fics—written by Homestuck characters themselves. While it doesn’t make them any less “true” or “real,” (even though it divorces them from the Three Pillars of Canon), it does explain the “fanficcy” feel.
“Meat” is written/narrated by Dirk and Alt!Calliope, each fighting for control of the narrative. Dirk might actually be Caliborn/LE, or at the very least, influenced/corrupted by him.
Dirk did something like this before, when he “wrote” Pony Pals for Jane, altering the original story by replacing parts of it with his own commentary.
Each page contains lovingly hand-written commentary on the deeds of this intrepid young horse.
Later, about halfway through the book, rather than see the gag through to the bitter end, Strider began pasting over entire pages of original text with his own completely rewritten version of the story, while keeping all the chapter titles. His revision is a tough, emotionally draining read. But it's cathartic, in all the worst ways possible. He tends to get carried away with his projects.
Sounds familiar, right? Using Pony Pals as an analogue, Alt!Calliope might represent the author of the original story, while Dirk modifies and rewrites it, twisting it into his own version. Alternatively, neither Dirk nor Alt!Calliope are the original author of the Epilogue, and both are altering the story as "Meat". Perhaps the book found in Calliope’s picnic basket is the original, unmodified story—the "pure" version of the Epilogues. (More on this below.)
Dirk is becoming Lord English/Doc Scratch. The parallels between Dirk and Caliborn/Doc Scratch are uncanny.
It might have something to do with Dirk's Ultimate Self and gaining access to the thoughts/memories/experiences of all his splinters and alternate lives. Those alternate selves/splinters include Bro (who was raised/corrupted by Lil Cal), Lil Hal, Doc Scratch, and Lord English, and the lines between all of them are blurring.
If Dirk is indeed LE in some way, shape, or form, the events of Meat may be LE’s way of trying to take over Post-Canon, exerting his influence beyond his domain of Canon.
(I plan to elaborate on the Dirk = LE theory in a future post.)
As a parallel to Dirk = LE, Jane is essentially becoming the Condesce. I’m not sure of the connection with her Ultimate Self, although I suppose that would include Crockertier Jane.
It might have something to do with the Condesce grooming her to be her heiress, and possibly even Jane inheriting her immortality curse? (I need investigate this further.)
Dirk and Jane even have the same alliance as LE and the Condesce: Dirk and LE pulling the strings while Jane/Condy carries out the plans. Similarly, Dirk and LE rule the metanarrative/story and travel through space, while Jane/Condesce rules the planet(s) of Trolls and Humans. (Credit to @wisdomdissimulator for the original observation/theory.)
“Candy” is written/narrated by Calliope from the Meat timeline. In Meat, Roxy mentions Calliope stays home and paints the walls with what sounds like the events of Candy.
ROXY: its not as bad as it sounds i promise ROXY: some of it is like ROXY: weird and violent?? ROXY: like lotsa nasty purple blood and um ROXY: nudity???? [...] ROXY: but MOST of it is cute stuff like... various combos of all of us being happy and gettin married . . .
While the Calliopes seem less inclined to control/force the characters and narration than Dirk, there are still moments of bias and asserting their will—specifically anything regarding the Trickster Lollipop.
Calliope (as the narrator) may have even controlled/influenced Dirk to suicide, possibly as a way to “save” the Candy timeline from Dirk’s influence. While the narration claims otherwise, it’s also possible Dirk killed himself of his own accord in a twisted mixture of Heroism and Justice, knowing what he could become if he lived, and thus wanting to spare the timeline.
Terezi of “Meat” is the same Terezi communicating with John in “Candy”. Since she’s still in Canon, she basically transcends the Meat and Candy timelines until she reaches Meat’s Earth C. This is why she expects Meat’s John to be older, why she thinks John and Roxy might be together, and why she has a hunch that things wouldn’t have worked out between John and Roxy—because this is true of Candy’s John, at least at the time Terezi last spoke with him.
Gamzee’s presence and influence might have something to do with the unexplained weirdness of the Candy timeline. Characters seem oddly blind or impotent to the circumstances around them, almost like there’s a Ragey influence sowing discord, anger, confusion, and obliviousness among the characters—just as what happens with the Trolls during Murderstuck. It isn’t until after Gamzee’s death that the characters start to seem more like themselves and are more capable and hopeful.
While Gamzee has “Joker immunity” within Homestuck, he’s able to die in Candy because it’s outside of Canon. (My theory is that Lord English grants him immortality, since Gamzee must become a component of LE and thus CAN’T die.)
John needs to take a third option, different from The Choice™ of either Meat or Candy. There's a book in Calliope’s basket, so the third option very well may be the book. Which would also make sense since a book represents/contains a story, and Meat and Candy, while food, also represent stories.
Another interesting third option would be “Vegetables”—or specifically “Pumpkin”—which Roxy could potentially summon via Void powers. It would make a cool reference and callback to “What Pumpkin”.
(More elaboration on the Third Option theory planned for a future post.)
I have a LOT more thoughts and ideas on the Meat and Candy Epilogues, so I’ll probably continue this in another post.
its him. this post isn’t even just about him. he is this post. HE IS ALREADY THIS POST.
Happy 413 to the webcomic that changed everything! 💖
the best OTP. EVER.
Feel like posting these again. They’re “title pics” for the first five acts (plus intermissions) that I drew on notebook paper way back in 2013 when I first discovered Homestuck. Admittedly, these pieces are pretty important to me, so reblogs are appreciated!
Had hs thoughtz at work the other day
Ok so. Caliborn/lord English. All of homestuck exists in the first place because he wanted to be the one responsible for it all existing, even the heroes hes supposed to fight.
And then theres,,,theres vriska,,she helps create bec noir because SHE wants to be the one to kill him. English knows hes the villain and vriska thinks shes a hero,,but they basically do the same thing
Sorry if this is just word jumble. Something something character parallels
> Lord English: Acknowledge this fools existence.
This fool has the utter nerve to not only kill one of your goons but one of your BEST goons. Clover was such a brave soul, his efforts will not be in vain. Although you are one of the most powerful beings in all of fiction it is still best to not toy with your food, he did kill Clover after all, so lets get this over quick.
> Lord English: Look at Clovers killer.
Examining your surroundings, you can see it is only this little rascal in near a hundred million miles of anything in any direction. Lets not question where we are for now and just focus on how you are going to take this fool down. Look at him just standing there all fucking smug wearing Clovers hat like a goddamn trophy. FOCUS, ENGLISH. It is probably best for you to throw your most powerful punch first just to show how real this shit is, he will probably not expect it and die immediately. Probably, being the key word here.
> Lord English: Throw your most powerful punch.
You are in the process of throwing your most powerful punch, no build up or anything, just straight to the chase. What makes this your most powerful punch is the fact that not only is it powered by the Green Sun but every Green Sun in every single timeline to be mentioned canonically and outside of canon too. This is one fucking powerful punch I will tell you that much. Whatever will this fool do.
> Fool: Do whatever a fool would do.
Holy fucking shit. You are awesome. Though you don't know why you are awesome as you didn't really do anything too spectular. Block this punch maybe? Didn't feel like much of a punch. Oh well, you're an awesome guy at the end of the day because obviously you are awesome. Awesome Deuce of Awesome Town, Clubs Awesome of Town Awesome. Awesome Awesome of Awesome Awesome... Awesome. Now enough fooling around it is time to teach this guy a lesson on how to throw an actual punch.
> CD: Throw an actual punch.
Hopefully he knows how to throw an actual punch now. You really blew the socks off of this guy. He must feel stupid for trying to get into fisticuffs without the proper training but you digress, He lost and you won fair and square just like you always do. You will be taking this amazing technicolor dreamcoat, thank you very much. After all that trouble you went through you deserve to walk away with something so this item of apparel will just have to do.
> CD: Take the amazing technicolor dreamcoat.
You feel so awesome just like you always do. Awesome Deuce of Awesome Town, Clubs Awesome of Town Awesome. Awesome Awesome of Awesome Awesome... Awesome. With this dinky hat and fancy coat, You will look just like- Oh, Jack Noir is trying to call you but that doesn't make any sense. Spades Slick should be the one trying to call you. Not that you would know or that it would make a lick of sense to you but Jack Noir is not Spades Slick. Answering his call will be your biggest mistake. He says that he is outraged by the fact that you killed jade, whoever the fuck that is, and that he is coming to tear you a new one, what is with all of these black rom advancements. Either way, this can easily be settled by a round of fisticuffs and, since you are pretty warmed up by that fight you just had, its time to do it for realsies.
> CD: Challenge Jack to fisticuffs.