Dick And Tim - Tumblr Posts

“oh boy. we get to save the world again.” “wish I shared your enthusiasm, shorty.” "it’s only there to cover up my terror.”

dick grayson & tim drake

Dick Grayson & Tim Drake: A Photograph

A photo of my family and you’re in it.

Comic sources:

Batman #441

Secret Origins #50

Batman #436

Batman #436

Batman #441

Batman #441

Secret Origins #50

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing”

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing” [edited]

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing”

Secret Origins #50

Detective Comics #965

52 #31, “The Origin of Robin”

Batman #441 - Cover by George Pérez

Red Robin #12

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing”

Batman #440

Image descriptions in alt text are also copied below read more.

1. Two comic panels from Batman #441 showing 13-year old Tim Drake sitting in a chair at Wayne Manor, with Dick Grayson in front of him and Alfred Pennyworth standing beyond that. They all have serious expressions on their faces. Tim says, “Okay, you won’t take me seriously until I tell you everything. Dick, I don’t want this to hurt you. And I’m really afraid it might.” Dick says, “Tim, just tell your story, please.” Tim reaches into his jacket as if to grab something and says, “All right, all right. Well, first, my name’s Tim Drake…and though you won’t remember it, we’ve met before. I’ve even got a photograph to prove it.”

2. Text from Secret Origins (1986) #50 that says: A woman with a small boy in the front of the grandstand waved to him. All three Graysons trotted to her. “This is Tim’s first time at the circus,” she said, patting the boy’s thin shoulder, “and we were wondering if you’d let us take your photo with him.” “Of course,” Mother replied, smiling. “We’d be delighted.”

3. Comic panels from Batman #436 showing John and Mary Grayson in their yellow, green, and red circus costumes as they walk through the circus with a young Dick Grayson between them. John says, “Dick, I’ve got those tickets for the baseball game monday.” Dick grins up at him and says, “You really got ‘em? Wow! I can’t believe I’m actually going to the World Series.” Someone off-panel says, “Umm, excuse us for interrupting, but—” The Drakes walk right up to the Graysons. Janet is in a pink day dress and Jack is in a suit, holding a very young Tim Drake in his arms. Janet says, “This is Tim’s first time at a circus, and we were wondering if you’d let us take your photo with him?” Mary Grayson puts her hands on Dick’s shoulders as Dick grins up at little Tim, who smiles down at him in response. Mary says, “Of course…we’d be delighted.” They all pose for a picture with the crowds behind them. Jack and Janet stand between John and Mary, while Dick kneels in the front holding young Tim up on his knee. He looks down at Tim, who looks back, and with a smile, Dick says, “Tim, say cheese.”

4. A comic panel from Batman #436 showing Alfred Pennyworth’s hands holding out and gesturing towards a photo as he says, “Gentlemen, and ladies—the very last photo of the Grayson family together. One last moment of happiness.” The photo shows the Grayson and Drake families together in the same poses as the previous image. John and Mary Grayson stand on either side of Jack and Janet Drake, while Dick kneels on one knee with his other knee up, where he is holding young Tim to sit on the knee. The parents are looking forewards, but Dick and Tim are looking at each other. The Graysons are all in their circus costumes, but the Drakes are in suits and Janet a dress.

5. A comic page from Batman #441. The first panel shows Tim Drake, who is sitting in a chair at Wayne Manor and holding up a photo of the Drakes with the Flying Graysons while Dick Grayson is standing in front of Tim’s chair. Tim says, “This was taken on my first trip to the circus—on the day I saw Batman for the first time...On the day your parents were killed.” Dick Grayson looks shocked, and takes the photo as he says, “Oh, my god—my parents.” Alfred Pennyworth, standing behind Dick, says, “I—I know this photograph, that’s you?” Tim looks up at them and says, “Uh-huh. After Bruce Wayne made you his ward, my parents sent it to you. They thought you’d want it. I was only a kid, but I don’t think I’ll ever forget what happened. I had nightmares about it for years. First about your parents, then about Batman. I kept seeing this dark black thing that swooped out of the sky. No, no—let me start at the beginning.” The scene changes to a gold-toned memory of the Drakes walking through Haly’s Circus. Janet is in a light dress, holding Jack’s arm as they grin at each other. Jack is in a suit, holding a young Tim who is also in a suit and has a big smile on his face as he reaches towards a passing Clown. Janet says, “I think you were right, honey—he loves it. Look at him laughing at everything.” Jack replies, “Hey, I said he wasn’t too young.” Janet says, “Okay, I was wrong. But sometimes circuses can frighten kids.” The Drakes walk through the circus, toward where you can see the Flying Graysons walking together. Janet continues, “They’re loud and rowdy, and I remember when I was Timothy’s age I was scared by people wearing costumes. Sue me. I'm a mother. I worry.” Jack says, “You were a girl. Tim’s a boy. That’s the difference.” Janet smiles up at Jack and says, “Sexism, dear? And here I thought you were liberated.” Jack follows Tim’s eyesight toward the smiling Flying Graysons as they walk past, then says, “Okay, okay, I’m sorry. Look, if you’re so worried, there’re a couple of the performers. Let’s take him over there. He’ll see they’re people just like him.”

6. A comic page from Batman #441 showing a gold-toned memory scene with the Flying Graysons, all in acrobatics costumes remniscent of the Robin suit, and the Drakes, who are wearing formal dress. Mary and John are smiling at Dick walking between them as Dick excitedly says, “—I’m actually going to the world series?” Beyond him, Janet and Jack Drake are walking up to them, with Jack holding a very young smiling Tim in his arms. Jack says, “Umm, excuse us for interrupting, but this is Tim’s first time at the circus…and we were wondering if you’d let us take your photo with him?” The two families pose, with Dick on one knee with Tim Drake sitting on his other knee, held up by Dick’s arms. Tim stares at Dick in wonder as Dick smiles at him and says, “Tim, say cheese.” 13-year-old Tim speaks through a narration box to say, “Maybe I knew you were just a kid like me, but I kept staring at you, and your circus costume. It was bright red and green and you seemed so happy in it.” In the memory, Dick pats Tim’s head as he gets ready to leave, and says, “Watch me on the trapeze, Tim. I’m going to do my act—‘specially for you. Be good now.” Then the scene returns to the present, in regular color, showing 13-year-old Tim sitting in Wayne Manor while Alfred and Dick look at him. Tim says, “I don’t remember the clowns or the animals, or anything else. I just remember waiting for you to go on. And then, when you did, I just sat there and watched.”

7. Text from Secret Origins #50 that says: The photo was snapped and the Graysons returned to the darkness of the backstage area and did the stretching exercises Johnny Grayson insisted precede every performance. On the other side of the canvas wall, the crowd was laughing and applauding the clowns’ fireman routine. They heard the ringmaster’s round baritone, amplified and distorted by the loud speakers, booming through the tent. “Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages—for your entertainment and amusement, doing their death-defying act without benefit of a net—” Johnny kissed his wife and ruffled his son’s hair.

8. A comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, the fourth story, showing Tim Drake and Dick Grayson sitting on a couch in Dick Grayson’s apartment. Tim is on the left wearing a pink and purple Gotham Knights jersey with a matching hat. He’s pointing at Dick, who’s turned to listen attentively to Tim while wearing a white tank top and gray sweats as he clicks a TV remote. Tim says, “Dick, meeting you—and him—have been the single most defining moments of my life.” The scene changes to the memory of the Drakes and the Flying Graysons posing together in Haly’s Circus while someone who is just a silhouette takes a photo of them. John and Mary are standing on either side of Jack and Janet with wide smiles, each in their red, yellow, and green acrobatics outfits. John’s and Dick’s outfits look particularly remniscent of the Robin outfit. Dick is kneeled in front of the parents with one knee up where young Tim is sitting on his thigh, smiling and looking at Dick. 14-year-old Tim narrates this memory by saying, “Some days I wish I could go back to feeling like that. You promised me that you’d do a quadruple somersault. And you delivered. It was the best day of my life. And then your parents died.”

9. An edited comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 of very young Tim Drake with his father’s arm on his shoulder, both looking up at John and Mary Grayson falling. John and Mary are in their red, yellow, and green acrobatics costumes, knees bent and arms stretched with one part of hands barely touching. Behind them, their acrobatic lines are snapping. Crowds in the large tent are yelling and pointing up at them. Tim’s face is not visible but he’s clearly watching them fall.

10. A comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 of nine-year-old Tim Drake staring at a TV screen, on which Robin is visible mid-flip, arms holding his legs tucked in. The Penguin is croached with his back turned to Robin, directly in position for Robin to land on him. Audio from the TV is saying, “Wanted for theft of the Lapis Lazuli Horus Crown, the so-called Penguin was apprehended by the Batman and a young costumed vigilante…” 13-year-old Tim narrates the memory of his younger self, saying: “You gave yourself away with the quad. The ringmaster told the crowd at Haly’s that only three people alive could pull off a jump like that—you and a pair of Russian gymnasts that defected from the Bolshoi to Ringing Brothers. I knew it was you.” Off-panel, Dick Grayson responds to Tim’s recollection by saying, ”Incredible. A nine-year-old kid figures out the best-kept secret on the planet.” In the memory, just beyond young Tim in the background are Jack and Janet Drake at a table, with Jack looking like he’s speaking angrily.

11. Text from Secret Origins #50 that says: Below, the ringmaster was saying, “Ladies and gentlemen, quiet, please, as young Dick Grayson attempts the in-credible…im-possible…quadruple flip of doom!” Dick breathed deeply and slowly, relaxing himself as Johnny had taught him, grabbed the bar, pushed off the platform, letting momentum carry him— But was something wrong? The trapeze didn’t feel right. —and allowed his mind to empty, and there were the few dizzy, exhilarating instants: spin spin spin spin. Feet thudding onto the platform. Roar of applause. Mother’s warm fingers touching his cheek. Ringmaster’s boom: “Let’s hear it, ladies and gentlemen—dauntless Dick Grayson, the boy wonder of the circus!”

12. A comic page from Detective Comics #965 showing a warm-toned scene of 13-year-old Tim Drake talking to a gobsmacked Dick Grayson in Wayne Manor. Tim says, “C’mon, Dick—that flip you did as Robin. It was a quadruple somersault. The circus ringmaster said only three people could do that.” Tim holds up a photo of the Drakes with the Flying Graysons, and continues, “I knew that somersault. Knew it like I knew my own name.” Tim smiles and says, “And it all made sense. Batman showed up at the circus and took you with him. About six months later, Robin made his first appearance. If you were Robin, and you were Bruce Wayne’s ward—I realized Bruce Wayne was batman.” The scene zooms out to show Tim sitting in a chair as Dick and Alfred Pennyworth stare at him. Tim says, “I don’t want to say the rest was easy, because you guys really covered your tracks. But if you go in knowing Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson are Batman and Robin, well, you can find the clues to prove it.”

13. Comic panels from 52 #31, 2nd story, “The Origin of Robin.” 9-year-old Tim Drake is shown from the back, sitting on the floor staring at a TV screen that shows Dick Grayson as Robin, flipping through the air. Tim’s face is reflected in the TV screen, showing his awestruck smile. Various objects are scattered on the floor in front of Tim, including pizza, books, and a magnifying glass. Orange narration boxes say, “The eyes of a fan caught a moment the rest of the world had overlooked. Tim Drake—and Tim Drake alone—had grown up fascinated by the career of an obscure and forgotten child acrobat named Dick Grayson—but when Tim saw Batman’s partner Robin perform Grayson’s signature gymnastic moves, something clicked in Tim’s mind.” The next panel shows Tim in a trenchcoat, expression awestruck as he shines a flashlight through a glass case in which a pristine Robin costume is hanging. The narration boxes continue, “Over the next few years, Tim—through a series of clues and lucky breaks—proved conclusively that Grayson was Robin…or, rather, had been.”

14. George Pérez’s cover art for Batman #441, cropped to focus on the lower half. Dick Grayson, in civilian clothing, is standing in the forefront of the image, with the 80’s Batcave looming around him. He’s looking down with a pensive expression at the Robin costume held in his hands. Behind to the right, Tim Drake (also in civilian clothing) is standing with photographs falling out of his hands in front of Dick’s shoes. The closest photo shows the Flying Graysons posing with the Drake family. The next closest two photos are of Robin and Batman. Beyond Dick and the photos, to the left, is Alfred Pennyworth. Up at the top, partially cropped away, are Batman and Two Face’s lower faces, with a scene of a bridge by Batman’s face and a flipping coin with a scene of Gemini casinio behind it right next to Two Face’s face. In the Batcave, the giant penny, the T-rex, and the massive batcomputer are all on prominent display.

15. Comic panels from Red Robin #12 of Dick Grayson talking to Tim Drake with a blurry aquamarine Batcave behind them. Dick is wearing the chestplate of the Batman suit but no cowl, as he looks intensely (with the slightest smile) toward Tim, who is shirtless, revealing long pink scratches and scars along his shoulder and cheek. Tim, looking up at Dick, says, “Ra’s—” Dick says, “Gone. We swept the place and got nothing. You want to tell me what that was all about?” Tim replies, “It’s...a little complicated. But I think we’re good for a while.” Dick says, “How’d you know? How did you know I’d be there to save you?” Tim smiles up at Dick as he says, “You’re my brother, Dick. You’ll always be there for me.”

16. A comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 showing Tim drake and Dick Grayson sitting on the couch in Dick’s apartment. Dick is reaching over to mess with Tim’s hair as Tim laughs and leans away, raising his hands to jokingly defend against Dick. Behind them in the apartment is a desk with a computer whose screen is lit up with a woman’s sketchy face. Dick says, “Got a friend visiting.” Barbara Gordon, over Dick’s computer audio, asks, “Anyone I know?” Dick says, “Little brother.”

17. Cropped art from Batman #440 of a cool-toned photograph with the Flying Graysons and the Drake family posing together. The Flying Graysons are all in their acrobatics outfits. John and Dick Grayson’s outfits are styled similarly, looking like a mix of the original Robin suit and Tim Drake’s first Robin suit. John and Mary are stood to either side of the smiling Jack and Janet Drake. Jack is in a suit and his hands are resting on Janet’s arms. Janet is wearing a day dress. In front of all the parents, Dick Grayson is down on one knee, with his left knee up so little Tim Drake can be perched on his thigh. Tim is in a a suit, similar to his father, and he’s looking up at Dick with a broad, awestruck smile. Dick is holding Tim in place with his arms, and instead of looking toward the camera like the parents are, he’s meeting Tim’s eyes with a smile. Behind them all, the crowds of Haly’s Circus are vaguely visible. In the corner by Dick’s right left, 13-year-old Tim Drake’s thumb is resting on the photograph, as if he’s holding it.

Hi! Thoughts on Dick and Tim during Murderer/Fugitive, and their argument over whether Bruce killed Vesper?

(My interpretation was that to Dick, Robin means not only unwavering loyalty to Batman, but unwavering faith (“I’m dismayed that there can be a Robin who believes Batman could be guilty of murder”)— whereas to Tim it’s more about having faith in the symbol and the mission, not the person)

Tim (suspicious that Bruce has emotional blind spots and is about to get a case wrong): Nightwing. Channel Two. Go discreet. (Gotham Knights 1)

Dick: I don't - I don't see how you can say that and still wear that uniform... Tim: The guy who gave it to me–the guy who wore it first–HE taught me never to back away from any possibility that might lead to the truth. And he still believes that… right? (Gotham Knights 26)

Ooh, look, it’s one of my favorite comics of all time. <33

Yeah!!  I think hmmm.  Both Dick and Tim are intensely loyal to Bruce and they both care about him a lot.  But they do think about their loyalty to him in very different ways.

Also tl;dr I am biased here but also I am right dsfsfs - although I do think that Tim's loyalty is kinda to the symbol, I also think a big part of the issue here is that Tim's more unambiguous personal faith is given to Dick, not to Bruce. When Dick says, How can you wear that uniform and not have faith in Bruce, Tim answers, essentially, I wear this uniform because I have faith in you. Which is not what Dick wants to hear!

I had SO MANY THOUGHTS about this, so below the cut:

Dick and Bruce and the importance of faith

Tim and Bruce and the importance of doubt

More rambling Dick-and-Tim-and-Bruce thoughts

Dick and Bruce and faith

Dick’s notion of loyalty is pretty firm: “It's no secret Batman and I have had our... issues. But I won't be involved in anything that hurts him.”  His connection to Bruce, from the very beginning, is all about their shared sense of mission: the oath in the candlelight. Dick’s got this intense loyalty that he feels he owes to Bruce, and he feels betrayed when it seems like Bruce isn’t reciprocating, because as far as Dick’s concerned they owe it to each other.

I think you owe me an explanation, Bruce. ... We were the Dynamic Duo, don’t you remember? / If Bruce Wayne doesn’t exist, who am I the son of? / I know you have to live through restraint. I understand how brevity is your moral compass. But why lie to me, of all people? Why would you lie to me. ME. ... I trust you more than anyone. / I've trusted Batman with my life since I was eight. / On top of everything, he's my father now, too... I want to hit people just for thinking bad thoughts about him.

Dick’s first experience of Bruce is fighting by his side.  He initially conceptualizes his role of Robin as about being steadfast partners to each other, and although he'll sometimes later recategorize it as a kid's role, that doesn't change the way he thinks of his own relationship to Bruce: partners, no matter what.

Dick fights with Bruce a lot - he'll pick a physical fight in this very arc! He's not afraid to stand up to Bruce! He wants to be independent and bristles when he feels bossed around or ignored or when Bruce is dismissive or doesn't listen or doesn't call on him for help! But paradoxically, he stands up to Bruce because he has faith in him. Dick respects Bruce enough to confront him and he expects Bruce to offer him the same respect in return. He'll pour out his heart to Bruce because despite everything, some part of him expects Bruce to have an answer, to step up, to be the person Dick's determined to believe he can be.

Tim and Bruce and doubt

By contrast, Tim initially interacts with Bruce like a detective stalking a criminal.  He collects newspaper reports. He follows Bruce and takes photos of him and gathers evidence to present to Dick. He goes to talk to Dick, not Bruce, about Bruce’s problems—and Tim will pretty consistently continue to talk about Bruce to Dick (or occasionally to Alfred), to work behind Bruce’s back, to be frank with Dick in ways that he’s not frank with Bruce.  Tim’s often at pains to insist that he does respect and care about Bruce, but one of the reasons he has to keep insisting this verbally is because his actions and assumptions suggest a lack of trust.

Tim’s first experience of Bruce is of someone who could be a knight or a monster, who needs help and intervention, who can be loved but not entirely trusted.  Someone who isn’t gonna be okay on his own; someone who needs saving and fixing; someone whose sense of himself can’t be entirely trusted or listened to.  Batman needs a Robin.  No matter what he thinks he wants.

In New Titans 71, Wolfman writes Dick musing about Tim as a Robin and how he’s different from Dick himself, and thinking, “He questions more.”  Much later, in Teen Titans/Outsiders, Kory will note the same difference.  Which is a funny thing to write given all Dick’s fights with Bruce—but I also think it’s a true insight!  Tim’s default is questioning.  Almost his entire tenure as Robin is spent as Bruce's apprentice, not his kid, and that affects his attitude a lot. He never takes his trust in Bruce for granted.  It’s carefully considered—and it could be revoked.  A part of Tim is always judging and measuring Bruce, deciding which qualities he thinks are admirable and which ones not so much, what's worrisome and what's not, analyzing whether Bruce is looking after his health or not, etc etc.

You have to promise me something. You'll listen to Alfred and at least call it a night and give yourself a chance to heal. / How many times are we going to have this conversation, Bruce? You died tonight. For almost two minutes you were dead. / Maybe Batman doesn't need to know about this. / He's a hard guy to get to know. / I have friends. He has... associates. / Bruce has been on the job the longest. It’s slowly driven him mad and eaten the human part right out of him. / My boss - my teacher is gone, gone as in fled, but also gone out of his head. And now he may be a murderer as well. / I think maybe Batman has gone crazy. / Don't like the risks he's taking. Don't like the way he spoke to me. I hope it's the concussion talking. I don't want to think his edge is coming back.

It’s not that Dick never worries about Bruce in this way.  He does!  In the arc right before Lonely Place of Dying, his inner monologue compares Bruce to an alcoholic. And IMO it’s strongly implied in Gotham Knights 26 (the Dick-and-Tim fight about Bruce maybe being a murderer) that one of the reasons Dick is so forceful and so upset by Tim’s suggestion is that he’s suppressing his own private doubts.  Tim’s dragging into the open something that Dick is refusing to look closely at.  Dick's faith is an act of will—if I’m going to be Bruce’s ally, then I can’t believe he’s capable of this.  I can’t allow myself to believe it.  And if I believe he’s capable of it, then I’m not acting as his ally anymore:

Dick: "I think it’s… admirable that you can continue serving a system in which you have so little faith. But I can’t. I can’t, Tim. I cannot believe that Batman is guilty of murder. I do not believe it, and I will not believe it. And I can’t stand with anyone who does."

You don't get this upset about somebody saying that the Earth is flat, you know? Dick's not laughing the accusation off; instead, he's drawing a hard line - I will not consider this. I refuse to go there. The topic is off-limits.

(In the same comic, you've got a similar fight going on between Alfred and Leslie with similar stakes - Alfred refusing to believe it but clearly harboring secret doubts, Leslie openly suspicious.)

General Dick-and-Tim-and-Bruce thoughts

Tim to friends: "I lie to Batman" (Teen Titans 3) Dick to Bruce: "But why lie to me, of all people? Why would you lie to me. ME." (Outsiders 21)

It’s always been Tim’s instinct to strategize around Bruce rather than with him. Tim will lie and circumvent Bruce’s orders, whereas Dick will disagree to his face.  Dick respects Bruce enough to give him his say and argue back, whereas Tim tends to think of Bruce as an admired-but-unstable figure who you sometimes listen to but sometimes plan around.

And I think you get the core of that in this arc!

Tim voices his concerns pretty frankly to Dick, but is way more circumspect in front of Bruce, because he doesn't entirely trust Bruce - Tim thinks "is Bruce stable and trustworthy" is "a decision that Dick and I will make in consultation with each other," not a decision that Bruce can make.

In the past, Dick has basically gone along with this kind of thing - he and Tim gossip about Bruce a lot! So it's not surprising that Tim's first thought is that they can confer on it again. But when it becomes a question of "is Bruce murderous, criminal, immoral," then Dick's loyalty kicks in. That's too serious an accusation for Dick to feel entirely comfortable talking about it behind Bruce's back.

Generally IMO, how Dick conceptualizes his loyalty tends to vary a lot depending on who he's talking to. So e.g. in general, Dick's more likely to gripe about Bruce to Tim than he is to gripe about Bruce to the Titans, because he knows that Tim basically likes Bruce. Tim's Robin! Dick takes for granted that Tim is loyal. So it's not disloyal to complain about Bruce to Tim, because Dick and Tim are both on Bruce's side. Dick complains to Tim about Bruce abruptly summoning them into No Man's Land, but doesn't share the same complaint with the Titans. And that's because the Titans aren't friendly toward Bruce in general, and so bitching to them would be disloyal, would be airing dirty laundry outside the family.

By contrast, Tim's a safe audience... until you end up in a situation like Bruce Wayne: Murderer, when suddenly it sounds like Tim may not be on Bruce's side anymore. What are you saying, Tim?

I do think that if Tim had been right, if Bruce had been a murderer, Dick would've ultimately helped take him down. He's very defensive of Bruce because that's how Dick understands the obligations of loyalty, but... he's part of confronting Bruce and demanding explanations in the Cave, and he and Tim (and Cass and Babs) all investigate Bruce together. I think if there had been very very very credible evidence, Dick would've helped fight to take evil!Bruce down. But I also think he would've never stopped mentally searching for an explanation: mind control? body double? I think he'd have an incredibly hard time accepting that Bruce had just murdered someone.

And I mean! In Dick's defense! I don't think Bruce would! At the end of the day, I think Bruce deserves all kinds of criticism in post-Crisis, but I also tend to think that Dick's read of him is a bit more accurate than Tim's, that even though Bruce can act monstrously in all kinds of ways he is at bottom a person who would never ever ever murder a civilian girlfriend no matter how unstable he got and no matter how threatened his secret was. Dick might have a bit more faith in him than he deserves, but at the same time, Tim's jumping to the worst-case scenario pretty fast here, much as he does during Batman: RIP, and I think you could definitely argue that Dick - who's known Bruce longer and better, who lived with Bruce for years instead of just worked with him - has a better and more instinctive sense of Bruce's strengths instead of just his faults.

(And in Tim's defense, as Babs is about to point out to Dick, Bruce has not been behaving especially well recently and Tim has a lot of reasons to be frustrated with him. And Tim's not the only one - Babs is pretty suspicious too!)

.... And of course, I mean, as a Dick and Tim fan, I love that this arc makes very clear that Tim feels his own loyalty is to the symbol, yes, but also that he associates the symbol with Dick first and with Dick's sense of morals, that he trusts Dick, that he sees the costume as something Dick gave him and that's the legacy that he's trying to live up to, to never walk away from the truth, that he thinks the two of them need to be willing to consider the worst of Bruce .... and also the delightful paradox that this isn't loyalty that Dick asked for or wants or welcomes!!

Dick has always taken for granted that Tim was loyal to Bruce, not to Dick; he's not at all happy to hear the opposite. This isn't a heartwarming moment for them but instead a really fraught one, because it's a declaration of Tim's loyalty but it's a declaration of Tim's loyalty that's specifically about not offering unconditional loyalty to Bruce, so Dick feels like he's being invited to be traitors together instead of feeling touched by Tim's trust. Tim's loyalty is something he has to learn to come to terms with rather than something he's happy to have.

And I think that's great!! I love love love these kinds of complicated emotional dynamics (TM), and Bruce Wayne: Murderer is full of them. It's such a fun read.

Nightwing’s Reaction to Batman Hitting Tim Drake in Batman #71:

This is why we all miss Dick (not Ric) Grayson as Nightwing. He’d never allow Batman to get away with what he did.

my new favorite interaction in this whole game is dick full-naming tim

though unfortunately i wasn’t paying attention at the time and now the audio’s bad

Reading A Lonely Place of Dying is so interesting in so many ways, but the question I'm still rotating in my mind is about Dick, and specifically why he ends up smiling and soft-advocating for Tim to be Bruce's Robin, after he had his morality crisis over young heroes with Jason's death.

So when he finds out about Jason's death, Dick feels guilty over giving Jason his Robin costume and not being there when he died:

New Teen Titans #55

To the extent that, later in the same issue, he unilaterally fires 15-year-old Danny Chase from the Titans, over Donna and Kory's objections, citing what happened to Jason. He even expresses doubt over his own young age when he became Robin, wondering whether that was a mistake:

New Teen Titans #55

However, when Dick visits Bruce in Gotham to both express his condolences over Jason's death and also confront him over not telling Dick about it, he explicitly rejects Bruce's implication of blame:

New Teen Titans #55

And later, when the Gargoyle is mentally torturing him over his past failures to the Titans, to Bruce, and Jason, Dick breaks through his self-blame issues and firmly asserts that there was nothing he could have done to prevent Jason's death.

Secret Origins (Vol. 2) #3

But understanding his lack of blame logically isn't the same as being totally past it, as it's part of Dick's larger cycle of guilt, as he acknowledges to his therapist:

The New Titans #57

So how does Dick get from here, still wrestling with guilt and feeling ambivalent about the idea of young heroes as a whole, to the end of A Lonely Place of Dying, where he smiles and basically urges Bruce to give Tim a chance to become Robin?

Like, yes, Dick then spends the entirety of Batman: Year Three worried about Bruce's tenuous mental state after Jason's death, reaching out to him in the midst of Batman's reckless, violent spiral, trying to both express care and to call his mentor and hero back to his foundations of crime-fighting through careful detective work, not through brutality - and getting rejected by Bruce over and over. Even while being proud of Dick's methods and the hero he's grown into, Bruce just can't seem to pull himself out of his own morass of self-destruction. Dick eventually has to leave him to it, though he clearly hasn't stopped worrying about Bruce by the start of ALPoD.

Yes, Tim impresses Dick multiple times over the course of ALPoD. First at the circus with his reflexes and his quick thinking (apparently almost as much as he irritates and baffles Dick with his stubborn evasiveness and pushy presumption, lol this total gremlin). Then at Wayne Manor when Tim goes through his deduction of Batman's and Robin's identities, although this one is more an implication through Dick's decision to show Tim the Cave immediately afterward, and Alfred's words to Tim.

Batman #441

And yet Alfred's sentiment here is immediately contradicted when Tim insistently pushes the Robin costume at Dick, and Dick gets pissed off, saying that, "When Jason died, he took Robin with him. And no matter how much anybody may want it - you can't bring back the dead."

The New Titans #61

How does Dick go from this to accepting Tim as the new potential Robin all of two issues later!! This boy's emotions are so mixed up, lol.

I feel like while Dick is clearly angered by Tim's presumptions, kind of baffled and creeped-out by the sort of parasocial fixation Tim has on both Bruce/Batman and Dick/Robin, below the surface he's also genuinely absorbing Tim's driving love and care for them both. Like, he's way too ticked off to show it or even think of it consciously at the moment - and it's hard to process!! despite that day at Haly's Circus tying them together a decade ago, this kid is a rando, it's out of nowhere, it's wild to be confronted with!! - but on some level he has to be touched by Tim's care and passion for their legacy. He wouldn't make his heel-turn later and smile at Tim so approvingly otherwise.

Like, Dick wants Bruce to have a partner that cares for him that much, that forces him to care for himself in a way that he clearly hasn't been since Jason's death. And Dick is both afraid and aware that he can't fill that role anymore - that he can try to stand beside Batman as Nightwing and support him that way, but he can't stand behind Bruce in his protective shadow again, can't cramp himself back into Robin.

So even as Dick is making line-faces at this bizarre kid pushing himself at them, talking about Jason and Dick and Bruce and what Batman needs like he knows better than Dick, UGH… Dick is also considering… is maybe moved a bit by that star-bright conviction and overflowing love in the face of all the doubts that seem to plague both Bruce and Dick lately… is maybe hoping, seeing a possible light in the dark. Not on a conscious level, perhaps, but it's maybe churning below the surface with everything else Dick is thinking about.

Anyway, Dick still tracks Batman down and tries being a supportive partner as Nightwing, even going "I'm here. Always," when Batman finally brings himself to admit that he needs help. Only to IMMEDIATELY run face-first into Bruce's control issues and post-Jason-disregarding-orders trauma - "You're not with the Titans now. If you want to be with me, you follow my orders. Now do as I say." (The New Titans #61) Oof, instant I'm-NIGHTWING-not-ROBIN friction, but Dick swallows it for now.

Then Two-Face blows up a building on top of both of them, and Tim (and Alfred!) have to rescue them both. By the time that they've been dug out, Alfred and Dick are both praising Tim's potential to a very baffled and alarmed, verging on angry, Batman lol. Dick and Alfred then grin at each other while young Tim struggles against his intimidation and argues the tremendously (and understandably!) reluctant Batman to a standstill.

Batman #442

As they drive away afterward (Bruce, Dick and Tim in the Batmobile to track down Two-Face - using the tracker Tim planted on him, good job Timmy!! - and Alfred toward home in a separate car), we get the following thought-bubbles:

Bruce: Even if he's right, I don't want another partner. Dick: Bruce, for once, think with your heart, not with cold logic. Tim: He doesn't want me, but he hasn't said no. So just do your best… Alfred: …One way or another, the rest will take care of itself.

Batman #442

"Think with your heart, not with cold logic" - so does Dick's line here mean that this is what he himself is doing at this point? Setting aside his logic, his fears and reservations about young heroes, about Jason's death, about putting another young boy in the Robin costume - because Tim joining them, maybe becoming Bruce's new partner, feels right? Because everything that Tim has shown of himself so far means the kid deserves a chance, at least? Because Bruce's caution after Jason's death would mean that he'll make sure to 'do it right this time'? Because Tim's passion and conviction could be what Batman needs, and - maybe as much if not more than that - could be something that deserves to be nurtured into something great, despite Dick's own (and Bruce's) fears?

Because Dick has to be wrestling with and at least quelling (if not fully letting go of) his fears about the risks to young heroes in these issues, it doesn't make sense for him to be okay with Tim as Robin otherwise. And it can't all be about what use Tim could be to Bruce - the leash he could put on Batman's out of control behavior. That's far too selfish and manipulative as a sole motive for Dick Grayson; especially after Jason, he wouldn't encourage a kid to jump into the meat-grinder of vigilantism solely to save Bruce or preserve the legacy of Batman & Robin.

I feel like Dick has to also be seeing something in Tim here, his potential, his determination, the good that he can and wants desperately to do, that Dick has to respect, has to think deserves a shot. When Alfred goes, "The boy should be a politician!" and Dick replies, "He'd do more good with Bruce," (Batman #442; panels above), it does feel like he's thinking of the difference Tim himself could make in the world. Dick has to be remembering why he himself could not be put off from the vigilante life when he was even younger than Tim, why Jason also went out there and did his best every night. To help people, in a way that mattered.

Anyway, Tim also puts in a good showing when they confront Two-Face, despite giving Bruce a near heart-attack over this strange unfamiliar boy wearing his son's uniform when Tim briefly appears to have been crushed - only for him to have saved himself and warned Batman and Nightwing of danger through his quick thinking.

Afterward, Alfred and Dick both advocate for Tim, so Dick is clearly pulling for Tim to be given a chance. Dick's smile here, my heart.

Batman #442

I still wish they'd been a little more explicit with the turn of Dick's mindset here, but at the same time I guess it's pretty effective as show-not-tell!

All in all, I feel like ALPoD was very effective storytelling, well done Marv, hugely enjoyable read, and I can't wait to read more.

I love it when comics let Dick be just as unhinged about Tim as Tim is unhinged about Dick.

We really need to return to Dick and Tim's best dynamic where Dick does insane stuff while Tim is horrified. Yes, Dick did just jump off that building to see if you could survive the fall. Yes, Dick is freaking surfing on trains. Yes, Dick did just use his acrobatic skills while playing tag in the middle of Bruce's building. In The Flash Plus Nightwing issue, Wally says that eating the "blood" to see if it was blood or just clay was a bat thing, it's not. Thats a Dick thing, he's the only one insane enough to do that

more ill-advised dick & tim era swaps

spyral!dick & alpod!tim

dickbats & new52wasneverrobin!tim

ric grayson & knightquest!tim

justgotfired!dick & literallyjustfoundhisdaddead!tim

tomtaylor!nightwing & brucequest!redrobin

bludhavenjustgotdestroyed!dick & marina!tim

Jason: Oh god, he texted you ‘hi.’’ punctuation only means one thing, Tim. They're mad at you.  Tim: No, it's Damian. They're just being gramatically correct!  *meanwhile*  Damian: And then I used a period so they'd know that I'm mad at them.  Dick : A period doesn't say 'I'm mad', it says 'you're dead to me'.  Damian: I stand by my choice.