Lgbt Discourse - Tumblr Posts
"The trannies should be able to piss in whatever toilet they want and change their bodies however they want. Why is it my business if some chick has a dick or a guy has a pie? I'm not a trannie or a fag so I don't care, just give 'em the medicine they need."
"This is an LGBT safe space. Of COURSE I fully support individuals who identify as transgender and their right to self-determination! I just think that transitioning is a very serious choice and should be heavily regulated. And there could be a lot of harm in exposing cis children to such topics, so we should be really careful about when it is appropriate to mention trans issues or have too much trans visibility."
One of the above statements is Problematic and the other is slightly annoying. If we disagree on which is which then working together for a better future is going to get really fucking difficult.
So what I’ve learned from the past couple months of being really loud about being a bi woman on Tumblr is: A lot of young/new LGBT+ people on this site do not understand that some of the stuff they’re saying comes across to other LGBT+ people as offensive, aggressive, or threatening. And when they actually find out the history and context, a lot of them go, “Oh my god, I’m so sorry, I never meant to say that.”
Like, “queer is a slur”: I get the impression that people saying this are like… oh, how I might react if I heard someone refer to all gay men as “f*gs”. Like, “Oh wow, that’s a super loaded word with a bunch of negative freight behind it, are you really sure you want to put that word on people who are still very raw and would be alarmed, upset, or offended if they heard you call them it, no matter what you intended?”
So they’re really surprised when self-described queers respond with a LOT of hostility to what feels like a well-intentioned reminder that some people might not like it.
That’s because there’s a history of “political lesbians”, like Sheila Jeffreys, who believe that no matter their sexual orientation, women should cut off all social contact with men, who are fundamentally evil, and only date the “correct” sex, which is other women. Political lesbians claim that relationships between women, especially ones that don’t contain lust, are fundamentally pure, good, and unproblematic. They therefore regard most of the LGBT community with deep suspicion, because its members are either way too into sex, into the wrong kind of sex, into sex with men, are men themselves, or somehow challenge the very definitions of sex and gender.
When “queer theory” arrived in the 1980s and 1990s as an organized attempt by many diverse LGBT+ people in academia to sit down and talk about the social oppressions they face, political lesbians like Jeffreys attacked it harshly, publishing articles like “The Queer Disappearance of Lesbians”, arguing that because queer theory said it was okay to be a man or stop being a man or want to have sex with a man, it was fundamentally evil and destructive. And this attitude has echoed through the years; many LGBT+ people have experience being harshly criticized by radical feminists because being anything but a cis “gold star lesbian” (another phrase that gives me war flashbacks) was considered patriarchal, oppressive, and basically evil.
And when those arguments happened, “queer” was a good umbrella to shelter under, even when people didn’t know the intricacies of academic queer theory; people who identified as “queer” were more likely to be accepting and understanding, and “queer” was often the only label or community bisexual and nonbinary people didn’t get chased out of. If someone didn’t disagree that people got to call themselves queer, but didn’t want to be called queer themselves, they could just say “I don’t like being called queer” and that was that. Being “queer” was to being LGBT as being a “feminist” was to being a woman; it was opt-in.
But this history isn’t evident when these interactions happen. We don’t sit down and say, “Okay, so forty years ago there was this woman named Sheila, and…” Instead we queers go POP! like pufferfish, instantly on the defensive, a red haze descending over our vision, and bellow, “DO NOT TELL ME WHAT WORDS I CANNOT USE,” because we cannot find a way to say, “This word is so vital and precious to me, I wouldn’t be alive in the same way if I lost it.” And then the people who just pointed out that this word has a history, JEEZ, way to overreact, go away very confused and off-put, because they were just trying to say.
But I’ve found that once this is explained, a lot of people go, “Oh wow, okay, I did NOT mean to insinuate that, I didn’t realize that I was also saying something with a lot of painful freight to it.”
And that? That gives me hope for the future.
*grabbing young queer people by the shoulders* listen to me. radical feminism is inherently transphobic. you cannot rehabilitate it or reclaim it or make it trans inclusive, I don't care what the people on twitter who claim to be authorities on queerness say. the foundation of radical feminism is nothing but bio and gender essentialism and biphobia and aphobia and anti-kink rhetoric and intersexism and yes, misogyny. it does not offer a future, not for bi people, aroace people, sex workers, not for kinksters, or intersex people, cis women, or trans people regardless of gender and you should care about those people. it will never result in queer liberation because it is an ideology of exclusion and hatred. you gain nothing by buying into the idea that half the population is evil by birth or by transition. you gain nothing by acting like women are perpetual victims who can't think for themselves and are tainted by their association with men. being a man or being attracted to them is not a sin. if we truly want to stand a chance of dismantling the patriarchy we actually NEED men on our side especially marginalized men. they are our allies.
the problem with terfs is not just transphobia, it never was, the radical feminism is also so unbelievably harmful. you cannot save it and it will not save you, stop drawing lines between queer people and join hands with them instead. remove people who are actually harmful, not innocent people who happen to have the wrong sexuality or gender or job. we get there together or we don't get there at all. we need each other now more than ever. do not listen to those who seek to divide us even if they are queer. we all deserve so much better than the hell radical feminism pretends is a liberated future.
I do not blame anyone who fell prey to this rhetoric, I know it feels good to have a common enemy and lash out at those you think are siding with them however they do it, but men, especially marginalized men, are not your enemies. and it's never too late to realize that and change for the better.
So let me get this straight, I've spent 26 years and counting being told that I'm disgusting and wrong for being trans and for being gay and I'm allowed to be hurt by that and to say that it's wrong. But when other queer people tell me I'm disgusting and wrong for being a man and for being attracted to men, I'm supposed to act like that somehow different and okay?
This was inspired by two things:
1- I’m a bisexual woman dating a cis straight man. That doesn’t make me straight, and that doesn’t make my relationship a straight one. That doesn’t mean I belong less in the LGBT+ community than a gay person.
2- The fourth example was not a joke. I’m in a fandom where two genderless entities with a temporary human shape are paired together. I’ve seen artists get hate because they drew them “looking straight”. The characters are still non-binary, still in love, STILL NOT STRAIGHT. Do not allow this toxic rhetoric in your fandom. Protect artists.
**Note– Forgot I meant to add aro and ace in there, sorry, but this TOTALLY INCLUDES ARO AND ACE PEOPLE.
THERE IS NO HIERARCHY OF WHAT IS MORE ACCEPTABLE IN THE LGBT+ COMMUNITY.
I WANT THE LGBT COMMUNITY TO JUST STOP FIGHTING
WE ARE NOT AGAINST EACHOTHER, WE ARE NOT ENEMIES NO MATTER HOW YOU IDENTIFY
TRANS PEOPLE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, INTERSEX PEOPLE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, BISEXUALS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, LESBIANS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, ASEXUALS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, AROMANTICS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, ETC
TERFS ARE YOUR ENEMY, TRANSPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, HOMOPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, ACEPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, AROPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, ETC
STOP PUSHING AT EACHOTHER, START PUSHING FOR EACHOTHER, ANY HATE TOWARDS ANY GROUP OF US IS HATE TOWARDS ALL OF US
TRANS PEOPLE BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, INTERSEX PEOPLE BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, BISEXUALS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, LESBIANS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, ASEXUALS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, AROMANTICS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, ETC
THERE ARE NO "GOOD" QUEERS IN THEIR EYES, AS LONG AS YOU ARE QUEER YOU WILL BE A TARGET
DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION, DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A PHYSICAL ATTACK, MEDICAL DISCRIMINATION, GOVERNMENTAL, ALL OF IT
STOP TRYING TO ATTACK EACHOTHER, WE ARE ALL EQUAL
It seriously bothers me when people make a fuss about labels. If someone wants to use a lot of labels to describe themselves that is their personal, inoffensive choice and you shouldn’t get mad over it.
“Oh but you aren’t a product on a shelf, you shouldn’t let that define you, labels aren’t that important”
For you! And your experience isn’t universal! There are various reasons for one to use labels, including having a better understanding of themselves. I literally lived in a limbo of not understanding and pushing myself way too hard, to the point where I would hurt myself before I was labeled as autistic and discovered the label asexual.
Labels are quite useful and important to some. If they not for you, that’s valid! But don’t disregard their importance to others or shame people who use them.
@wlw-orchids replied to your post “Femme bi women married to men still have stories about queerness to…”
actually femme is a lesbian term but bi women can use stag/tomcat/doe!
Just a few notes!
1. Tumblr is the ONLY place I’ve ever seen it claimed that “butch” and “femme’ are lesbian-exclusive. EVERYWHERE else–LGBTQ+ organizations, wlw magazines, drag shows, pride parades, academia–recognize that while many different groups under the LGBTQ+ umbrella have had special histories with the words “butch” and “femme”, the terms actually originated in straight culture and have been used by people of EVERY sex, gender, and sexual orientation, for decades.
2. Bi women CAN use stag/tomcat/doe, if they want. But overwhelmingly, we DON’T want to, and ACTIVELY resist having those terms shoved on us. The doe/stag/tomcat paradigm was invented in 2014 by two bi teenagers who were bowing to pressure from lesbian exclusionists; bi women have called themselves butch and femme for as long as lesbians have. (Until the 1970s, ”lesbian” historically meant “a woman who has been known to love/have sex with another woman” and wasn’t very strict about its definitions; historical “lesbians” include people who today would be recognized as bi, asexual, trans, or nonbinary) And if a large number of bi women WERE willing to give up the identities they’ve carried since forever, which is dubious, it would NOT be for terms as dehumanizing, and sex-essentialist, and hypersexual as doe/stag/tomcat..
3. I’m really disturbed by how much this claim is being pushed on Tumblr, because a lot of Tumblr’s audience is teenagers and people newly discovering their LGBTQ+ identities, who don’t have a ton of LGBTQ+ and allied friends to give them support and community. And, well, a lot of LGBTQ+ people, a lot of lesbians, really disagree with the idea that everyone should get scolded for using words they’ve always used. But Tumblr discourse primes teenagers and newbies to think “Anyone using butch/femme incorrectly is bad,” so when they go to their local pride parade or safe space or LGBT center or queer community, they’ll see ways those groups have talked about themselves for over fifty years and assume these are bad people who won’t support them. It teaches new/young people to look with suspicion and distrust about people who can be really valuable in their lives, and to interact with them in ways they don’t know come across as really hostile.
That keeps newer/younger LGBTQ+ people from forming friendships with or learning from other LGBTQ+ people outside a small circle on Tumblr–and when someone is isolated, and has been taught they can’t look to any outside source or do any independent research to tell them about their history or identity or what makes a relationship healthy, they are very at risk of being preyed upon, with no knowledgeable outside friends to say, “Hey, some of what your online friends are saying sounds really extreme. Are you sure letting them tell you what to call yourself, what to watch or read, how to dress, or who to sleep with is really healthy? Maybe you should tell them to back off and let you decide those things for yourself.”
@ people who tell me not to call myself transsexual (even though I feel much more comfortable being called that) and not to say that I was born in the wrong body (even though I was).
hot take uh
dont get mad at trans ppl for using the “wrong”/out of date terminology to describe their own experiences like
if a trans dude says “back when i was a girl” or “i was born in the wrong body” just. let them. if they feel it describes their experiences the best, then it’s good for them
as long as theyre not using it to describe other people who may not be comfortable with, it’s ok
BIG alert to any trans people in Texas, closeted or out.
note: i don't have the full details on this, but definitely make sure you understand what's happening if you live there
Like, seriously, to all of the people who post things like “why be cis when you could choose to be trans?” or “why be straight when you could choose to be bi?”, you need to stop. Like, immediately.
LGBT people have spent decades trying to convince people that our orientation/gender identity is NOT a choice. Stop setting us all back with these regressive statements.
You don’t choose to be straight.
You don’t choose to be gay.
You don’t choose to be bi.
You don’t choose to be cis.
You don’t choose to be trans.
Literally none of this is a choice.
Stop trying to pretend it is when we’ve been trying to convince people who are anti-LGBT that it isn’t one for decades.
@wlw-orchids replied to your post “Femme bi women married to men still have stories about queerness to…”
actually femme is a lesbian term but bi women can use stag/tomcat/doe!
Just a few notes!
1. Tumblr is the ONLY place I’ve ever seen it claimed that “butch” and “femme’ are lesbian-exclusive. EVERYWHERE else–LGBTQ+ organizations, wlw magazines, drag shows, pride parades, academia–recognize that while many different groups under the LGBTQ+ umbrella have had special histories with the words “butch” and “femme”, the terms actually originated in straight culture and have been used by people of EVERY sex, gender, and sexual orientation, for decades.
2. Bi women CAN use stag/tomcat/doe, if they want. But overwhelmingly, we DON’T want to, and ACTIVELY resist having those terms shoved on us. The doe/stag/tomcat paradigm was invented in 2014 by two bi teenagers who were bowing to pressure from lesbian exclusionists; bi women have called themselves butch and femme for as long as lesbians have. (Until the 1970s, ”lesbian” historically meant “a woman who has been known to love/have sex with another woman” and wasn’t very strict about its definitions; historical “lesbians” include people who today would be recognized as bi, asexual, trans, or nonbinary) And if a large number of bi women WERE willing to give up the identities they’ve carried since forever, which is dubious, it would NOT be for terms as dehumanizing, and sex-essentialist, and hypersexual as doe/stag/tomcat..
3. I’m really disturbed by how much this claim is being pushed on Tumblr, because a lot of Tumblr’s audience is teenagers and people newly discovering their LGBTQ+ identities, who don’t have a ton of LGBTQ+ and allied friends to give them support and community. And, well, a lot of LGBTQ+ people, a lot of lesbians, really disagree with the idea that everyone should get scolded for using words they’ve always used. But Tumblr discourse primes teenagers and newbies to think “Anyone using butch/femme incorrectly is bad,” so when they go to their local pride parade or safe space or LGBT center or queer community, they’ll see ways those groups have talked about themselves for over fifty years and assume these are bad people who won’t support them. It teaches new/young people to look with suspicion and distrust about people who can be really valuable in their lives, and to interact with them in ways they don’t know come across as really hostile.
That keeps newer/younger LGBTQ+ people from forming friendships with or learning from other LGBTQ+ people outside a small circle on Tumblr–and when someone is isolated, and has been taught they can’t look to any outside source or do any independent research to tell them about their history or identity or what makes a relationship healthy, they are very at risk of being preyed upon, with no knowledgeable outside friends to say, “Hey, some of what your online friends are saying sounds really extreme. Are you sure letting them tell you what to call yourself, what to watch or read, how to dress, or who to sleep with is really healthy? Maybe you should tell them to back off and let you decide those things for yourself.”
i cannot be the only one noticing this? eh maybe im just salty
What do you think lesbians are attracted to in women that we can’t be attracted to in men?
It can’t be anything about femininity or masculinity obviously. That’s both sexist, and cultural so can’t be what drives woman-only attraction.
It can’t be anything about stated identity because someone could lie just as easily as they could tell the truth in such a statement, and it makes no sense because homosexuality and heterosexuality exists in other species with no stated identities. It’s not like other animals without gender are all pan.
Saying idk it’s the vibes or some indescribable trait women have that men can’t but “I can’t explain” is a nonanswer.
Soooooooo what is it? Or do you think any sexuality but bi/pan is just cultural performance or an identity rather than an inborn orientation?
????
I'm gonna try and answer you in good faith so I hope this was a good faith argument
The slogan of "born this way" doesn't mean literally being born with the "gay" gene it's about how we have a right to be attracted to whoever regardless of gender and that we can'tchange that (I'm referring to adults only duh)
I can't really explain lesbianism because it has alot of other factors than "me like woman" because everyone experiences their attraction differently
I've met lesbians who aren't attracted to dick and lesbians who does they are both still lesbians
Including alot of other things ofcourse
However having the fear of someone lying about their identity isn't a good idea because then you have to constantly question the validity of someone's identity all the time including yourself which is honestly counterproductive
Sexuality is fluid for alot of people and it can be based on a million things
Bi and pan people are under the multi attraction labels and has been shown to be a werry real thing
In reality understandings that you don't always understand an identity or sexuality is really the way to go because everyone is diffrent and experiences are different as well
Hope this somewhat helps
HELL YEAAAAAH
I WANT THE LGBT COMMUNITY TO JUST STOP FIGHTING
WE ARE NOT AGAINST EACHOTHER, WE ARE NOT ENEMIES NO MATTER HOW YOU IDENTIFY
TRANS PEOPLE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, INTERSEX PEOPLE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, BISEXUALS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, LESBIANS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, ASEXUALS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, AROMANTICS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, ETC
TERFS ARE YOUR ENEMY, TRANSPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, HOMOPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, ACEPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, AROPHOBES ARE YOUR ENEMY, ETC
STOP PUSHING AT EACHOTHER, START PUSHING FOR EACHOTHER, ANY HATE TOWARDS ANY GROUP OF US IS HATE TOWARDS ALL OF US
TRANS PEOPLE BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, INTERSEX PEOPLE BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, BISEXUALS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, LESBIANS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, ASEXUALS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, AROMANTICS BEING ATTACKED IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US, ETC
THERE ARE NO "GOOD" QUEERS IN THEIR EYES, AS LONG AS YOU ARE QUEER YOU WILL BE A TARGET
DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION, DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A PHYSICAL ATTACK, MEDICAL DISCRIMINATION, GOVERNMENTAL, ALL OF IT
STOP TRYING TO ATTACK EACHOTHER, WE ARE ALL EQUAL