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hi! I'm a big fan of your translations, thanks for sharing! I was wondering if you've ever done your own translations/interpretations of the names of the characters in mdzs?

hi!! ahh thank you! yes, I do have a (wip) post with my translations of character titles (eg cssr) and proper nouns in mdzs here! and I actually have been meaning to post an analysis of the mdzs surnames for a long time, so I'll use this ask to do so! thank you for reminding me!!

note: the characters are in traditional chinese :)

魏 Wei

this one is pretty self-explanatory for anyone who can read chinese. on the right is a 鬼 gui radical, which means ghost! for our lil 鬼道之王 king of the ghost path <3

(this radical also appears in a lot of words for "soul," such as 魂魄)

藍 Lan

I've often seen people simply say 藍 lan means "blue," and that wouldn't be wrong but it also wouldn't be completely correct. similar to how wwx clarifies that the 義 yi of 義城 yi city is not that of 俠義 heroic justice, but that of 義莊 coffin home, the in-universe definition from chapter 18 is that the lan surname is derived from 伽藍 qielan, which is a loan word from sanskrit, “saṃgharāma,” meaning buddhist monastery.

溫 Wen

溫 wen means temperature, warm. the wens do love their sun. pretty straightforward!

金 Jin

also straightforward. the jins are rich and opulent, and 金 jin means gold!

聶 Nie

here's where things get interesting. this is the one that made me think more about the surnames, and the reason why they're written in traditional here. I had always read nhs's name in simplified (聂) but when I saw it in traditional (聶), it clicked.

not only does 聶 nie mean "to whisper," but nhs has three 耳 ears in his name!!

AND INDEED, NHS HAS EARS EVERYWHERE, AND HE IS ALWAYS LISTENING. 👂👂👂

江 Jiang

this one I had to think about for a bit. of course, there's the most direct answer, which is that 江 jiang means river—and the jiang's are, of course, well known for their lotus pier and rivers and such. but a more interesting thought that occurred to me was that 江 may be a reference to 江湖 jianghu, aka rogue martial artist communities who aren't affiliated with mainstream society often seen in wuxia fantasy novels. those part of the jianghu do not adhere to government/law, but rather live under individual moral codes of conduct re righteousness, justice, vengeance, etc. quoting jeannette ng's essay on wuxia:

In Stateless Subjects: Chinese Martial Arts History and Postcolonial History, Petrus Liu translates jianghu as “stateless”, which further emphasizes that the hero’s rejection of and by the machineries of government. Jianghu is thus a world that rejects the dictates of the state in favor of divine virtue and reason, but also of a sense of self created through clan and community.

the jiang family precepts and ideals seem v aligned with this aspect of jianghu morality—after all, jc never lets us (or himself) forget that wwx's acts of vigilante heroism are those of an ideal jiang.

Bonus: 莫 Mo

mo xuanyu was only ever a blank canvas. 莫 mo means nothing, no one, none. </3

I love how the faux-politeness of MDZS' climax takes its themes to its logical conclusion. All throughout, we've seem how sects and cultivators prioritise their reputations, seeking glory and status even when real lives are at danger, keeping up their appearances. We see that in the unwritten rule that major sects won't intervene in problems unless the prey is dangerous; we see it in how Lan Wangji is unique in the way he prioritises helping others over seeking glory; we see that in how the Wen situation plays out, with Wei Wuxian confronting the Jins about a concentration camp while they're focused on having a banquet.

So of course in the Guanyin Temple, even when Jin Guangyao is directly threatening people's lives, the interactions are polite! We're seeing what has always been present – the absolute disconnect between the actions and world of the Jianghu, and the real harm that real people are suffering through (both intentionally and not) as a result.

I find it very frustrating when people lump up all of Lan Zhans actions post time skip as being solely related to his love for Wei Ying when it's deeper and more complicated than that and you can see it in how he reacted to Wei Yings death.

We know that he's not actually as stoic as people think he is. He can be very petty and has no qualms in expressing his anger so it would have been very easy for mxtx to have Lan Zhan react to Wei Yings death by becoming bitter and vengeful but she doesn't. Especially after the cruel punishment they inflicted on him. It would have been so very easy for Lan Zhan to simply defect and do his own thing. Instead, he puts all his energy into bettering not just himself but also his clan.

He makes sure that not only does Sizhui have a home and friends but that the next generation have a more open-minded mindset instead of simply being the rule-followers his clan tries to turn them into. He gains a reputation of 'being where the trouble is' because he has changed and focused his goals on helping those who need it most but are forgotten. When Wei Ying comes back, he doesn't help and protect him simply out of love, but because Wei Ying is still the man who holds the ideals he deeply admires and respects. Because Wei Ying, even after everything he's been through, is still empathetic and compassionate to those who need it most.

Mxtx really does try very hard to give her characters depth and that's what makes her writing so compelling.

since i’m on my third mdzs brainrot of the year, let me just say: it’s enlightening how this story, spread over multiple volumes, goes over the simple but undeniably true reality that even while doing almost everything “right” you can still be horribly “wrong” in the eyes of society. how wei wuxian would bend over backwards to follow his morals (which have been narratively shown to be somewhat the standard) but still be condemned at large because he didn’t go about it the way that was perfectly compliant with what his social superiors and other authority figures expected of him. how “good” deeds in the mdzs world (and ours) will only be accepted and praised, coming from someone of lower social standing, if they are packaged in an unobstrusive manner–and sometimes, not even then. and it’s funny how some people miss that, how they wonder what would have happened if wei wuxian had been just a bit more tempered, a bit more subservient, a bit more polite. how the expectation of delivering his kindnesses in the most unhindering manner possible is somehow an acceptable train of thought–how the burden to do better is not unequivocally placed on people like JGS, Jiang Cheng, Nie Mingjue, the Lans, etc.

some people think that wei wuxian using demonic cultivation in the eyes of the cultivation world is his downfall. nevermind the fact that he literally isn’t practicing mo dao–this whole issue is NOT about what he’s doing, but about who he is. mxtx has made that clear at multiple points in the novels but the most glaring example is, ofcourse, how the nie sect is allowed to mess with resentful energy all they like and since they are a powerful enough sect, they face no social or political backlash for it–not in the way that wei wuxian does. even then, during the war, those people had no qualms against weaponising wei wuxian’s powers for their benefit. if it truly was about the dubious morality of using mo dao for them then wei wuxian should have been condemned from the get-go. but it’s not. it’s about the son of a servant wielding enough power to change the tides of a war and then surviving to tell the tale and continue to live with the kind of power that shouldn’t be held by someone of his station. it’s about people quaking in their boots because wei wuxian has shown himself as someone who won’t conform, who won’t become a dancing monkey for their tunes.

yes, wei wuxian is not some perfect angel saint but then, why the fuck should he be??? this expectation from some readers and the members of his world alike, that wei wuxian should have been the one to give it his all and more to avoid conflict is blasphemous. in the end, wei wuxian chose his path, stuck to his ideals, and went down throwing a big fuck you at the larger cultivation world’s back, while the rest failed to break the cycle of power abuse. the fact that it took them more than a year to see him to death is just a testament to how well wei wuxian handled things than some grace given by the cultivation world. the whole “wei wuxian’s first death was inevitable” is, for me, not about wei wuxian slowly spiralling and things getting out of hand. his death was inevitable because corrupt people with power will always choose to exploit and silence, will always choose to exert their will, will always choose to hurt those lower in the chain. and that is exactly what happened with the ambush and everything that led upto it.

Sometimes it feels like the main message that a lot of people miss in MDZS in their leaps to justify one character’s hatred for another or attempting to remove them from the world because they will never be at peace until that person is completely eradicated, is that it poses a question of “how much blood does it take to satisfy the anger? How much death is necessary to live? How much pain that you want to inflict is truly equal to what you have suffered? Where is the line between justice, vengeance and murder?”

MDZS does not have our modern sensibilities and laws for such a thing, and it’s on purpose. It’s set in a time where there is no emperor or god onscreen to merit out justice or retribution, it’s all in the hands of the mortals. They get to decide how much is enough.

And the thing that so many people miss is that for almost every character (and I will include Wei Wuxian in this with a caveat) go too far at some point. Sure, the desire to kill your brother’s killer is understandable. But what about the people who you harm in that path? Nie Huaisang does end up taking down Jin Guangyao, but the cost is that Qin Su also dies, destroyed even before her death by the reality of what the men around her will stoop to do out of pride and anger, what they will use her for in the process.

Why do I stand so firmly against the people who say that Jin Guangyao and Jiang Cheng had their reasons, that they were right to go as far as they did? Because the text itself does take the time to show us what is reasonable in that world and what is greedy, wrathful, unjustified.

Jiang Cheng has every right to hate the men who invaded his home and killed his family. In the natures of their society it is not wrong for him to step him and take revenge against them. The supervisory camps in Yunmeng were built on the blood of his people. I have no qualm with him removing them from his land, even though it ends in their deaths.

But that does not mean that his righteous war should extend to all who bear the Wen name and that is where the gap comes in. Wen Chao had him tortured and his golden core crushed. By the rules of that world as extolled by Xiao Xingchen when talking to Xue Yang, it is reasonable to take back what was done to him in blood there.

But Wen Ning is not Wen Chao. Wen Ning risked his life, his sister’s life and ultimately ended up contributing to Wen Ruohan’s campaign toppling and ending in dust because when he was offered the choice to either stick by his family or stick by his morals, he chose the former. The Wen’s attack on Lotus Pier was wrong. The lives they took were unjustified. Their actions were deplorable.

By standing up and protecting Jiang Cheng in the way he does, smuggling him back out of Lotus Pier and hiding him away from the Wen who would kill him, he is declaring that his own family is in the wrong, and instead makes a sacrifice that could have had him and his sister killed should Wen Ruohan ever find out about it.

Jiang Cheng knows this. This is where the right of hatred falls flat. This is where his righteous anger becomes a hunger for blood that will never be satiated.

Now I’m not saying that Jiang Cheng should hug and kiss Wen Ning for everything. There are limits to what humans can endure, even ones as good as Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji. But he refuses to ever acknowledge what he knows. He refuses to ever act in kind. He owes a debt and he knows it. And he instead not only refuses to pay it by not necessarily taking them into his lands, but even acknowledging that they did anything. He buries them with their family and his words. He lets his hatred overwhelm all else.

He was not powerless at the end of the war. Far from it, in fact! He had a sect that was still rebuilding its forces, but it had been three years since the start of the war so it can’t be tiny anymore, and he had Wei Wuxian with the Yin Hufu. The only two necromancers in the world, who are powerful enough to hold whole barriers on their own. This is the whole point of the display at Phoenix Mountain. Wei Wuxian is showing the other three great clans and all the smaller clans that it does not matter how many of them they have, Yunmeng Jiang has him and while they have him, they are untouchable. This is a known fact.

Jiang Cheng would have faced no long term retribution from doing anything. He could have simply let Wei Wuxian pull them out of the Jin indoctrination camp and take them through Yunmeng to somewhere else and after some grumbling and some pleading on Jin Guangshan’s part, nothing would have happened. Wei Wuxian is too strong and the other clans are too aware of that. No one was safer than Yunmeng Jiang at the end of the war.

That is why the Jin play off of his jealousy and anger and get him to throw aside Wei Wuxian. It is literally their only option.

This brings me to the other half of my discussion, which is where does the bloodshed end? What is enough spilled blood?

If Jiang Cheng hates Wei Wuxian enough to try to kill him, then this should be a vengeance that ends with Wei Wuxian’s death. Death ends all obligations. We owe no more money, we settle no more debts, we leave the shackles of the living in life and the dead move on as do the living.

So why then is it acceptable that Jiang Cheng spends the next thirteen years killing people that remind him of Wei Wuxian? That the moment that Wei Wuxian does return, his first action is to try and kill him again? That he tortures him multiple times and it is only Lan Wangji’s presence and Jin Ling’s quick thinking that save him on those occasions? By all rights including our modern ones, Wei Wuxian should be free and Jiang Cheng should have moved on in thirteen years. Thirteen years is long enough to raise a child almost to adulthood, but Jiang Cheng clings to a hatred that has had no outlet for that long and continues to try and demand Justice that he has already received.

Where is the line? When is enough? Why does the blood of innocents have to be paid too for the hunger of the mighty? Wen Ruohan subtly assassinated Nie Mingjue’s father, but Nie Mingjue decided that there was only to be death for anyone related to the Wen. They didn’t have to do anything, even if they tried to stop him it wouldn’t be enough. Only the death of every Wen would slake that hunger, and then in death when he is driven only by that hunger, only the death of every Jin. Including the ones who weren’t even old enough to hold a sword at the time he died. Jin Ling is as good as Jin Guangyao for Nie Mingjue to kill. All that matters is that he’s connected. All that matters is that there is another body to feed the never ending hate that fills him.

Xiao Xingchen says that for Xue Yang to take a finger or an arm from the man who harmed him as a child is reasonable. Even to kill him if that is truly the only way to end his hatred. But what is a finger to an entire family? “Because it is mine!” Declares Xue Yang and this is where the crux of it lies. “It is my hatred, it is my anger. It is my right to kill anyone because I am angry and I refuse to let it go.” This is the trait that Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao and Xue Yang all share. “I am angry and I am hurt so it is my right to do as I will and no one should take that away from me or I will hurt them too.”

This is why they are antagonists. This is why two of the three of them end up dead. This is why Jiang Cheng staying his hand in the temple and Wei Wuxian’s mercy towards him is the only reason that he survives the end. You can’t ask the world to feed your endless hatred. Eventually you will hurt the wrong person and by the very laws that you and the world have set, will come for you. There is no such thing as bloodshed without pain. There are people who will miss those who are gone. And not all of them will be as good as Lan Wangji. Not all of them will move forward in their lives and ignore you. Sometimes the oriole will stalk you in the shadows, waiting for the moment the praying mantis slips up. The wheel ever turns and those on the bottom eventually rise up.

Now as for Wei Wuxian, we see a different answer on him from the others and this is where his morals really come into play. Cause at first he does exact justice for those lost at Lotus Pier. Steps in which the narrative does not fully condemn him, but suggests lightly that it is the sort of thing that he does not linger in, as well as he himself looks back and decides that maybe he did go too far then. Maybe he did do too much in the name of anger and justice. Three months after the event he is willing to kill and torture Wen Zhuliu and Wen Chao. But three years later he looks at the members of the family that killed his and goes “I do not love you. But this is not right. You do not deserve this. I will not let you suffer this any longer even though your name is Wen.”

For Wei Wuxian, the line ends at the end of war, at the deaths of those who directly caused him the most pain. He does not necessarily forgive or absolve. But he does recognize that there is no sense in continuing the bloodshed or allowing others to continue it out of some misplaced sense of vengeance. He is offered a chance to stop the wheel and he tries. He tries so goddamn hard. He tries until it kills him and everyone else he protects because the anger of the rest is too wrapped up in their self righteousness to examine what is reasonable and what is the cost for what they do.

I do not exonerate the Lan here, but I do point out that they at least actually make an attempt to change things afterwards. We see it in the way that Lan Wangji continues to act in the world. We see it in the way that Lan Xichen stops and reconsiders what he knows of Wei Wuxian, and helps him when the wheel attempts to spin back to where it was before. Where the juniors go out hunting on their own to help people of all kinds. They find weird mysteries and they follow them, they are kind to all. It does not absolve what they have done in the past, it does not make them blameless.

But it is a start. And one that Jiang Cheng has not taken. If he had, we wouldn’t be having these debates and arguments about what is a reasonable enough amount of death and destruction that he can cause on account of his past.

This is where the line is.

Modaozushi asks the question of how much death is enough and concludes at the line “when you continue to court death to satisfy your anger, you will eventually find death standing at your door too.” It happens to Xue Yang, who after killing Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen and A-Qing and everyone in Yi City, finds A-Qing’s ghost leading those who can end his hurting of others for good. It happens to Jin Guangyao who assassinates and hurts so many people that Nie Huaisang finds allies in Mo Xuanyu, Sisi and Bicao, all of whom are willing to help him drag Jin Guangyao to the depths by the chains of his reputation.

Jiang Cheng is offered another chance. Leave Wei Wuxian alone and move forwards with his life. At the end of the book he accepts that chance. It is probably the last one he will get, but he accepts it. This is why he finishes out the book alive no matter how much blood he has on his hands. You can always change your actions until you are dead.

This is the question that Modaozushi posits and answers to all of us and to which I now offer to you when you consider the actions in story. What is enough? How much blood must be spilled before you are happy?

Why does it matter to you that those who are hurt are allowed to hurt without consequence? Where do you draw the line when all of those who caused you pain in the past are buried?

What is the price that you demand for your happiness? When is there enough blood on your hands to be happy?

When do you say “there has been enough death. I will stop this here and now because it is enough.”

Will you be the hero or the antagonist in someone else’s story?

One of the most tragic aspects of Wei Yings story to me is the fact that he DID ask for help. He asked for an option he could pick that would still safeguard the Remnants which is all he wanted. He didn't want to be separated from the people he loved. He didn't want to live isolated from the world. Hated for something he had no choice but to choose.

He asked Lan Zhan. The most reasonable person he knew. The person who actually saw the Remnants for the innocent people that they were. The person who was kind enough to buy toys for a little boy and let him cling to his leg even though he disliked being touched. He asked. He wanted another option. Desperately so.

There was none. He knew it. Lan Zhan knew it. By that point even Lan Zhan wasn't selfish enough to ask Wei Ying to follow him to Gusu and leave the Remnants defenseless. Because he himself knew the Lans for all their righteousness would have never accepted them either.

So...

I have plans on making a mdzs fix it with a self insert/ oc and I was wondering what ships will people prefer with said mc...

Therefore please vote on what would thou be in need for when reading such fics.

WangXian, XuanLi, QingMian, and the canon relationships already exist. Im debating on whether to ship RuRen as a background ship but besides that please do vote if you see this even if you don't end up reading my fic.

I feel like this is something that gets overlooked so often is the fact that Wei Wuxiam wasn't the one who named Subian.

It was Jiang Fengman.

He just gave jfm a list of names but couldn't decide and saide whateva so jfm just named it Suibian.

Which means that Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling both got their naming sense from their father/grandfather. Like how jc named his dogs princess, jasmine, love and jl named his fairy.

And Wei wuxian in the end does name a spiritual weapon and it was chenqing  (陈情) "setting forth one's thoughts and explaining one's actions." Further proving the fact that we are lucky Jin Ling's courtesy name was given by Wei Wuxian even tho its for pining which is an entire other post. And that Yunmeng Jiang has bad nameing sense.

they give off the same rat vibe.

Relating to my other post, but i headcanon that Jiang Fengmen naming wwx's sword Suibian is peak dad humor. That guy probably giggled himself to bed and be obnoxious about it like "San niang did you get it? did you get it?" Madame yu ignored wwx for the entire week.

Y'know as a non native english speaker I always happen to read Carp Tower as Crap Tower, and the more i read the story the more the name made sense.

I was thinking about this but with Male Leads and then it hit me.

Who is more of a loser between Hua Cheng and Luo Binghe, cause there i believe there is no debate about who is the princess.

Oh god I just realized this is also the mxtx boys!

Since we got the results from the poll here this is.

Oh god I just realized this is also the mxtx boys!

You know what i wanna write?

The juniors take a history of the cultivation world class and they reach the Sunshot campaign

Wei Wuxian teaches it

And he asks the kids "what do you think we did wrong?"

And the kids tear into the politics scathingly

The most critical of them all? Lan Jingyi.

"It's bullshit, Wei-qianbei, because the-"

And he goes on a tirade about allyships and treaties and such

And everyone is shocked at how incredibly smart and occasionally ruthless Lan Jingyi can be

Being in this fandom for a while i have a question and I'm not sure whether this has been doen before but,

getting back into the untamed and i had a thought. / follow for more yllz babygirlism

Yilling Laozu with white hair

big pant wei ying and big jaket lan zhan (+ a-yuan🐰)

oh god... the demon slaughtering cave... it was wwx's man cave...

I think about jiang yanlis most stupid choice so often of running onto that battlefield. It's her most stupid choice but makes the most sense within her character and the story. She has spent her entire childhood perfecting these peacemaking skills and being a pillar for her brothers, protecting them from her parents. But they kept getting older and all of a sudden she isn't protecting them from her parents, there's politics and wars and so much violence that her soup can no longer fix. She watches as she gets closer and closer to losing at least one of her brothers, as their family falls apart and all of a sudden she's grieving her husband, alone with a baby in a place so foreign to her with no support and she is going to lose one if not both of her brothers and she is going to be alone. So she doesn't make the rational choice, she's scared and she's already had a taste at what might happen if she doesn't do something but all she has are the skills of a peacemaker from a time when things were simpler but she tries her best, doing what she knows to keep her brothers safe and fails. It's the stupidest thing she could have done and also the only thing that made sense to her at that moment