Beforus - Tumblr Posts
The First Guardian of Beforus
We already know three First Guardians:
Becquerel, pre-scratch Earth
God Cat, post-scratch Earth
Doc Scratch, Alternia
But what about Beforus?
I suspect its First Guardian is, in some way, shape, or form, a rabbit.
So far, all First Guardians have ties to the kids.
It goes without saying how Bec is connected to Jade. Bec was ectobiologized from Halley, Grandpa’s dog. Grandpa is pre-scratch Jake.
Then there’s GCat. GCat was likely ectobiologized from Jaspers (aka Frigglish), who belonged to both Rose and Roxy. Plus, Roxy already has heavy ties to cats.
As for Doc Scratch, one of his components is Lil Cal. Lil Cal belonged to Dave’s Bro and Dirk, and haunted Dave’s dreams (and waking life).
That just leaves John and Jane.
John has strong ties to a rabbit. Specifically, the stuffed bunny from Con Air, whom he received three times for his birthday—the original from Dave, the oily bunny patched up by Rose, and Liv Tyler from Jade (and Jake).
Post-scratch, Jane has ties to the stuffed bunny, too.
Like John, each of Jane’s friends gave her a bunny, as well. Jake gave her his Grandma’s bunny, Roxy gave her Mom’s, and Dirk gave her Lil Sebastian.
Earth’s First Guardians, Bec and GCat, have obvious, simple parallels. Dog, cat. “MEOW” and “BARK” codes. Pets connected with the kids.
But the Con Air bunny and Lil Cal have interesting parallels with each other, as well. They’re both filled with stuffing (as are dead Halley and Jaspers). Both have traveled convoluted, circuitous routes through time and space. Evidence points to them both being Jujus. Both are used as a weapon, via bunnykind and puppetkind strife specibus.
Lil Seb especially parallels Lil Cal. For one, they both have similar names. Both once belonged to Dirk.
Then there’s this:
They both end up in Caliborn’s possession (and at the same time).
That can’t be a coincidence. These instances of Lil Cal and the Con Air bunny also have the most direct paths through space-time.
Doc Scratch is First Guardian of Alternia due to Lord English’s influence. Who’s to say Beforus’ First Guardian wasn’t also his influence?
And if Doc Scratch was made from Lil Cal and a Magic Cue Ball…
...Maybe Beforus’ First Guardian was made from Lil Seb and a Magic 8-Ball.
How perfect would that be? It would complete all the parallels.
Doc Scratch is the Man on the Moon, Alternia's green moon. A bunny First Guardian could be the Moon Rabbit of Beforus' pink moon.
Not to mention… There would be a white rabbit as a First Guardian. A White Rabbit to go along with the Cheshire Cat, GCat.
ROXY: gcat [...] ROXY: you gonna behave urself ROXY: not do anything too uh ROXY: vexing or cheshire catty ROXY: i hope?
The bunnies, especially Lil Seb, already have Alice in Wonderland connections.
It's the White Rabbit!
Sort of!
If the First Guardian of Beforus is a White Rabbit living on the Pink Moon, perhaps it leads Meenah “down the rabbit hole” with SGRUB.
ARANEA: [Meenah] viewed the empress as a glorified slave. ARANEA: So she a8dicated, and fled to the moon to hide. […] ARANEA: While she was there, she discovered an ancient device. ARANEA: Inside the device was a game. ARANEA: She 8ecame o8sessed with playing it, 8ut needed our friends to agree to play first. […] ARANEA: Needless to say, we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into.
A rabbit hole, as in the first artifact that draws players of an alternate reality game into its world. If SBURB/SGRUB isn’t an alternate reality game, I don’t know what is!
A rabbit First Guardian is PERFECT.
About your Beforus First Guardian post, I think it's super cool but impossible, as the A1 session never had an ectobiology lab meteor in order to create a first gaurdian, or the players themselves for that matter, which is why they had to scratch in the first place.
Oh, interesting point. Hmm…
Although, if that’s the case, wouldn’t the same be true of the Alpha Kids’ session? Yet they managed to make GCat.
I mean, I suppose they could have used the ectobiology equipment from the Trolls’ meteor, but…
I don’t think it was so much that the Beforus trolls lacked an ectobiology lab as it was that the trolls originated from the post-Scratch (Alternia) session instead of the pre-Scratch (Beforus) one, so they needed to scratch in order to ensure their existence.
This is what Doc Scratch said on the matter:
Though they could not recognize it for the bad omen it was, this session was not the one in which they had been spawned. Such is the symptom of a subtle glitch affecting certain sessions, an error designed to trigger an unfathomable cascade of misfortune throughout paradox space. This glitch is the calling card of the one I serve.
It says nothing of ectobiology equipment or lack thereof, just in which session the trolls were spawned.
Also, Beforus would have had a first guardian regardless, because:
Every planet destined for intelligent life has such an entity meant to protect it, and facilitate the planet’s ultimate purpose.
So yeah.
Ok so you know how people like to portray (using Kankri/Karkat as my example) Alternian Kankri/Sufferer as the dad of Beforus Kankri and Alternian Karkat? Well what if Beforan Karkat is the grandfather? Can you imagine this grumpy old man playing with his grumpy grandkids? It would work the same for the others too, so like Beforan Nepeta is the grandmother, Beforan Tavros is the grandfather, etc
Alright. So if the dream bubbles are made out of memories of the people within them, then does that mean all the people within them are made from memories too?
Like, other people’s memories of this certain person are combined into what everyone else gets to see. Maybe they weren’t actually like that when they were alive, but seeing as they’re made entirely from other people’s memories of them, they aren’t who they used to be anymore.
And what if the longer they’re in the dream bubbles, the more those memories are likely to change (since older memories are more susceptible to change, according to science).
And their worst traits (maybe) became more prominent the more time passed due to this plus any other experiences and interactions with people in the dream bubbles
And the dancestors had been in the dream bubbles for a millenia (I believe it was mentioned, though I can’t remember when)
So what if the dancestors were a lot different on Beforus? What if they only met one another a few times properly before they all died?
Idk I just think about this a lot, like what if there’s a h*ck of a lot more to the dancestors than we were originally led to believe???
Okay, but everyone hear me out
The punk!Kankri headcanon needs so much more love and attention than it gets
That is all
Guys I finally figured out why Kankri has so much wasted potential (especially when compared to the Signless)
He never had a Dolorosa in his life
Think about it. Signless was culled on Alternia so it only makes since that the same would hold true for Kankri on Beforus. We can assume that Porrim wasn’t his culler, if only because she’s literally the same age as him and too young
The Dolorosa literally taught Signless everything he knows (aside from what he learned from his visions). She supported him in the revolution and did so until the very end
Kankri shows us exactly what Signless would have been without Rosa
(Personally I have a theory that it could also represent the negative affects the foster system can have on many kids, but we don’t have time to unpack all of that)
Pre game Mituna had the personality of either Technoblade, Wilbur Soot, or Dream and there is no in between you CANNOT convince me otherwise
:O this reminds me of another theory I have!
Basically, we know the dream bubbles are essentially made up of memories, right?
What if everything someone becomes in the dream bubbles is based entirely off of what other people remember about them?
That might not sound like a super big deal until you realize a) that other people have basically no clue what they’re actually like outside of how they present themself and b) memories can be altered or even forgotten with the more time that passes.
(Basically, what I’m saying is the dancestors could have been wildly different from what they are now, when they were alive, but their memories no longer support the weight of their old selves)
Thinking about the Alpha trolls dead is actually pretty sad. Their coping mechanisms, being forgotten after everything they’d been through (and not getting any part in the Ultimate Reward won from the Alpha kids session)… Aranea’s and Meenah’s fights to stay relevant… it’s heavy.
Something that really sticks for me is how, in the dreambubbles, they’ve built up these walls and facades over the course of eternity that have left them stagnant, spinning their wheels in ruts they’ll never get out of. Maybe this was intentional on Hussie’s part, maybe it wasn’t and they’re really just that 1-dimensional, but that’s how I absorbed it.
Porrim, however, seems a bit more… present? If that’s the word? I don’t know if it has to do with being the Maid of Space or what but like she’s trying to have deep conversations with her friends, but it’s just about as fruitful as slamming her head against a wall repeatedly.
When talking to Kankri in Openbound, she gets kind of exasperated with him? He keeps coming back to all the issues they dealt with on Beforus, some issues that are hardly relevant on Alternia, let alone either iteration of Earth (and not just any one specific conversation). At one point, he outright says “I just don’t want to distract from all the more glaring issues that desperately need the full attention of our people if we are going to make any progress as a civilization,” and Porrim delivers what feels like it should have been a powerful “EVERYONE IS DEAD!!!” Kankri, of course, without hesitation, just responds in his usual manner. He’s blocked out everything that could hurt him, has taken up this purpose of trying to solve issues (in his own way) that don’t even matter anymore.
Again, when Porrim talks to Latula, she comes off as oblivious. Apparently, she didn’t even know much of anything about her post-scratch life, which is fault on her own part. If she was interested, she could have easily learned the story, if not from Terezi (post-retcon, most likely), than someone else. But, Porrim tells her the troubling tale, and she listens somewhat attentively.
In the end, Latula’s just kinda “Huh, that makes sense!” to Porrim’s confusion. When she inquires further, the answers Latula give are, “It just does, babez,” and “Try being a Mind player,” which are, perhaps, the most vague and nondescript answers possible. And she can’t even back it up, because when Porrim asked if she could explain it to her, it was a clear “Nope!” disguised as a “Check out this outstanding healflip!”
Later, Latula does open up to Porrim a bit more, lets the rad girl getup fall away a bit, and she just seems… sad. Sad and tired.
I could talk about each and everyone of them (especially the circles Rufioh and Horuss run around in) but this post is already gonna be long smh
See, this why I love the dancestors so much! There’s a lot of room for interpretation and theories, especially when we compare them to the Alternian selves!
It hits me in the feels real hard, especially when I remember that, in all technicality, they were still kids when they died. They never even got a chance to grow up and mature and the dream bubbles only pulled them back
Thinking about the Alpha trolls dead is actually pretty sad. Their coping mechanisms, being forgotten after everything they’d been through (and not getting any part in the Ultimate Reward won from the Alpha kids session)… Aranea’s and Meenah’s fights to stay relevant… it’s heavy.
Something that really sticks for me is how, in the dreambubbles, they’ve built up these walls and facades over the course of eternity that have left them stagnant, spinning their wheels in ruts they’ll never get out of. Maybe this was intentional on Hussie’s part, maybe it wasn’t and they’re really just that 1-dimensional, but that’s how I absorbed it.
Porrim, however, seems a bit more… present? If that’s the word? I don’t know if it has to do with being the Maid of Space or what but like she’s trying to have deep conversations with her friends, but it’s just about as fruitful as slamming her head against a wall repeatedly.
When talking to Kankri in Openbound, she gets kind of exasperated with him? He keeps coming back to all the issues they dealt with on Beforus, some issues that are hardly relevant on Alternia, let alone either iteration of Earth (and not just any one specific conversation). At one point, he outright says “I just don’t want to distract from all the more glaring issues that desperately need the full attention of our people if we are going to make any progress as a civilization,” and Porrim delivers what feels like it should have been a powerful “EVERYONE IS DEAD!!!” Kankri, of course, without hesitation, just responds in his usual manner. He’s blocked out everything that could hurt him, has taken up this purpose of trying to solve issues (in his own way) that don’t even matter anymore.
Again, when Porrim talks to Latula, she comes off as oblivious. Apparently, she didn’t even know much of anything about her post-scratch life, which is fault on her own part. If she was interested, she could have easily learned the story, if not from Terezi (post-retcon, most likely), than someone else. But, Porrim tells her the troubling tale, and she listens somewhat attentively.
In the end, Latula’s just kinda “Huh, that makes sense!” to Porrim’s confusion. When she inquires further, the answers Latula give are, “It just does, babez,” and “Try being a Mind player,” which are, perhaps, the most vague and nondescript answers possible. And she can’t even back it up, because when Porrim asked if she could explain it to her, it was a clear “Nope!” disguised as a “Check out this outstanding healflip!”
Later, Latula does open up to Porrim a bit more, lets the rad girl getup fall away a bit, and she just seems… sad. Sad and tired.
I could talk about each and everyone of them (especially the circles Rufioh and Horuss run around in) but this post is already gonna be long smh
i'm curious, do any of you have any specific headcanons for the trolls in terms of appearance? people draw them all in such different ways and it seems like everybody sees them differently
the thing is, if i were ever to attempt a dancestor continuation or something like that, there'd definitely be a few characters i'd need to outright retool to treat in any kind of respectful manner (damara and horuss are blatantly offensive and i just can't think of any way to do anything with cronus in his current state)
that being said, the entire backstory around damara, rufioh and horuss is one of the most interesting parts of homestuck. the dancestors have some really interesting interpersonal relationships; the damara/rufioh/horuss/meenah thing, the kurloz/meulin thing and how that relates to mituna/latula, porrim/latula, cronus/mituna/kurloz, and that's just the ones i can think of
not sure how hot of a take this is
meulin and horuss' relationship as it is in canon is extremely toxic and very obviously straining for horuss, that much is clear
HOWEVER, i think with an honest talk about their feelings (which is pretty customary for moirails) they could genuinely form a pretty stable pale relationship?
i think meulin as a character just needs to stop being so overwhelmingly positive all the time because it's obviously draining to horuss and it's probably not the healthiest for her as well? especially with how much trauma she's probably processing with kurloz
i dunno, i just think she's quite a flat character as it stands and i think she deserved better, and i think the key to developing her and her backstory more is more of a focus on her quadrants with kurloz and horuss. (provided that she's also allowed to function as her own entity, because right now part of the problem is how much of a satellite she is to kurloz who is infinitely more developed)
i think transfem kankri is such an interesting concept because kankri's undeniably misogynistic even if it's unconscious and so. interpreting her like that inadvertently also recontextualises a lot of that behaviour?
kankri is a piece of shit in his current state, that's a fact - he's a deeply arrogant and prejudiced person who wants to seem progressive and spouts whatever bullshit he thinks makes him seem intelligent to keep on fuelling his own ego. he's a perfect example of why beforus Does Not work and he's a direct product of being raised on a society like that
which in my eyes makes the idea of her eventually coming out like that even more interesting because it would force kankri to address so many of the underlying prejudices in her worldview and confront herself in a way that might finally, FINALLY make her realise 'i'm an egotistical prick and i need to stop.'
Rufioh & Meenah's friendship is... weirdly endearing to me? They have a really interesting rapport during Openbound and I think part of that boils down to the fact that they're very similar people.
Both Rufioh & Meenah share a principle of 'act first, run away, don't look back and don't feel guilty'. They hurt people and hide away from the consequences, then jump back into their lives without realising the hurt they've caused. They're a very similar brand of shitty with a similar fast and loose moral code, and I think that's why they get along so well.
The difference is that Rufioh is more of a passive pretty boy who lets his looks get him off the hook, whereas Meenah relies more on her royal status to try and justify herself.
I also think that they'd be very, very good for eachother if they were to actually do the self-reflection required to sort their shit out. They've got the same issues and having someone to go on that journey with might be just what the other person needs. Having someone with similar experience to relate to is a highly beneficial thing when you're taking the steps to better yourself.
I don't think it's romantic, though. Rufioh outright says that he likes Meenah being the only friend of his who hasn't hit on him. Rufioh also has some very, very unhealthy habits in romantic relationships and some very problematic attitudes towards women. Both of these are things I think Meenah would have some choice words with him about.
I also think that, if anyone's the catalyst for them sorting their shit out, it's Porrim. I've thought a lot about a scenario wherein Porrim realises the magnitude of what they both did to Damara and calls them out on harming her so fervently; as well as directly addressing Rufioh's misogyny.
Of course, there's always the alternative angle that they'd just enable their worst habits with eachother, but I think they're just different enough in the way they approach their flaws that they'd bounce off eachother in a way that benefits the other.
Most likely boils down to about six paragraphs of me talking out my ass, but I find it interesting nonetheless. I just think Rufioh Nitram needs to get his fucking act together.
second rent-lowering gunshot; cronus ampora is a disgusting, predatory, irredeemable pedophile and if you defend him as a person in any way then i do not like you on a personal level.
he is a fantastic character. part of what makes him so great is that he is fundamentally beyond redemption. if you are making him a good person, you are missing the fucking point. he is narratively designed to be the worst character in the whole comic. i would very much consider myself a cronus fan! i think he's a fucking brilliant character and, to paraphrase nekropsii, a fantastic narrative torture device. but he's an atrocious person.
cronus defenders are disgusting. you are taking up a sword and a shield to fight on the side of a literal sex offender because you think this deeply mid white guy is hot. i say this with full gravitas, fuck you.
I wanted to draw my version of female cronus ampora, i think she would use cute bows and kiss everyone on the face :33 maybe i do a comic with her :V
Can we just ignore the fact that i forgot her horns? Pretty please? ;w;
Originally posted by hemo-canons.
Originally posted by hemo-canons.