Hazbin Hotel Theory - Tumblr Posts
We know both of them are obsessive stalkers and Vox technically has more monitors around his control room and all the cameras are "Vox"-themed.
But I think there is something to be said about him needing an initial push to set it all in motion.
Valentino probably realised he could turn this into an advantage if he leveraged the info juuuussst right. And then his eternal failing of being a temperamental bitch got the better of him. Come to think of it, his obsession with Angel Dust led to Valentino knowing more things about the Hotel than Vox did. His whole speech about "going to that rancid shithole..." etc. was as much exposition for the audence as it was for Vox because it was pretty clear that Vox had no clue until Val told him.
That is such a spicy nugget of info. I love it!!
I Just Had a Thought About Something...
I see a lot of people commenting on Vox always stalking Alastor through the drones around the hotel and being a creepy voyeur, but something just occurred to me...
Vox didn't know Alastor was back until Valentino told him.
Literally up until this point, Vox has very little reason to want to spy on the hotel. But you know who does have a reason?
Valentino.
Who turns on the TV that instantly tune into the cameras pointed at the hotel?
Valentino.
Vox hasn't been watching the hotel at all. It's been Valentino. We know that Alastor has been back at this point for a week at minimum and that Angel Dust has been staying at the hotel for even longer than that. With how much of a control freak Vox is, there's no way Alastor's reappearance would have escaped him for a whole week if he was actually paying attention to those cameras. Meaning he didn't give a shit and if he didn't care, then why put them up at all? I think it's incredibly likely that Valentino asked Vox to put the cameras up around the hotel so he could watch Angel Dust. The bitch literally already had his TVs turned to the hotel feed. He's been watching Angel this entire time.
(Side note, that means Valentino could have known about Alastor for a solid week and purposefully did not tell Vox about it which is shady as Hell)
Thinking about how some of the Hotel's operations are depicted in fanfics. I love the diversity and how many little things people think about that are nevertheless important everyday life things. If it serves the story or the worldbuilding, it's worthy of inclusion and I am in love with that.
One part that is almost universally agreed upon is, that Niffty is the one doing laundry.
I humbly disagree and want to put forth my own theory.
It is Alastor that does the laundry.
Firstly, it's much easier to summon a bunch of shadow minions and just read a book while the rest is going on. Also I think his perfectionism would absolutely get the better of him. Even just thinking about putting whites with colours will make his skin crawl. Same with thinking about just tossing his or Charlies jackets into the washing machine would evoke a look of abject horror on his face.
This just won't do!
Besides his perfectionism and need to take control of absolutely everything, nothing is a more unobtrusive and comprehensive means of knowing things about the people around you than doing the laundry or emptying the trashcans.
Everything is known to the people cleaning your rooms or your clothes or both.
Just one wiff is going to tell him things. Someone on their period? He's gonna know about it. Someone not taking their medication? Alastor's gonna know and WILL MAKE YOU TAKE THE DAMN THINGS WITH A GLASS OF WATER, YOU HEATHEN.
Everything can be used as leverage somehow. Vaggie in a bad mood? Avoid her. Charlie being teary and weepy and CLINGY? Make the most saccharine sweet breakfast known to demonkind and AVOID AT ALL COST.
Also imagining him with those elbow-length rubber gloves while handling Angel's work clothes. After long discussion and many protests Alastor has taken on that task, too, where before Angel would absolutely just make sure to wash those by himself and with industrial strenght biohazard solvents.
Smells like Valentino and Vox are in their "off" phase right now... interesting....
I think it may have taken him a few years to even just get on his feet. I actually envision him just working some odd jobs for a few years, laying low and just observing and learning from the people around him. Being the social impostor in the room probably helped him in life and so he employs that same tactic while in Hell.
Be the fly on the wall until it is time to strike.
And when he struck the rise was truly meteoric. As you said, I think the only person that rose to Overlord status faster than him is Velvette (and isn't THAT an interesting thought to chew on?)
Once he was confident he could dispatch big game as he pleased, I think that phase of him being cocky and out in the open started. As we saw in that flashback from Mimzy, people used to openly laugh at him and dismiss him. There must be an element to that where he declared himself as the Radio Demon but people had no idea what that actuall meant.... until the broadcasts started and people went missing, of course :D
how long do we think it took for alastor to come clean about being the radio demon. months? years? how long was this man terrorizing everyone anonymously before he finally caved to the desire to be recognized for his hard work
how long do we think it took for alastor to come clean about being the radio demon. months? years? how long was this man terrorizing everyone anonymously before he finally caved to the desire to be recognized for his hard work
There is also the thing with Charlie that Hell is literally her only home (that line in ‚Ready For This‘ hit me like a ton of bricks)
I think it‘s a combination of: My home can be a nice place and I SEE that there is potential there and my girlfriend is proof of that.
Everybody can change (also sung by Charlie in ‚Happy Day In Hell‘).
Give us that happy dose of neverending positivity. Modern times and modern media desperately needs it.
Maybe it‘s also about herself. We don‘t know what her own past was like. She may have been a very different person once. She may have found that she didn‘t really vibe with other Hellborn. That depends on what the story of the Von Eldritches is going to be.
One thing is for sure, though, and that is that Charlie keeps a tight lid on some aspects of her personality that only occasionally comes out and that we only see glimpses of (most noteably on Extermination Day)
I am chomping at the bit to find out more.
i wonder if vaggie was charlie's first ever personal proof of concept. if charlie watched this razor sharp woman with scars on her back and bandages over her eye slowly come out of her terrified, angry shell to reveal an inner core of fierce concern and loyalty and love. if charlie saw vaggie's emerging softness, her devotion and mercy and protectiveness, and felt a warming affirmation of everything she believed about sinners: that everyone deserves a second chance, that everyone has a sliver of goodness beneath their pain, that hell shouldn't be the end of the road. because vaggie's very existence validates all of charlie's principles and deeply-held truths. and then she learns that vaggie was never a sinner at all.
Thinking about how the Hotel crew, aka. the main cast, could possibly stay together.
I am on the fence whether it is a good idea to "redeem" any of them into Heaven...
For one, it feels "wrong" somehow to establish all the characters, getting to know them and investing time into their lives and relationships, seeing them grow only to "get rid of them" via redemption. It doesn't sit right with me somehow (maybe I'm just a bit clingy) Redemption in this context doesn't feel like the end goal, either, if I'm honest.
From what we have seen from Heaven, it might be peaceful (some would call it boring, even) but there is also that classism undertone ("please leave your Brimstone off the floor"/"their love is vile and blasphemous"->not meant homophobic, I think she meant angel+demon=blasphemous. but that's just me). There are other things that rub me the wrong way about what we have seen of Heaven but all in all it just doesn't seem like a very nice place to be - With Hell at least you KNOW what you're getting into but with Heaven it somehow seems way more dystopic than Hell has ever been depicted.
Back to the main cast, having any of them get to Heaven feels like if in Star Trek a character gets promoted and they are getting a different post. They are technically still part of the world but we don't get to see/partake in their lives anymore. That estrangement wouldn't feel very cathartic in my eyes. I want to SEE them having a good time after their hardship. And better yet, I want to see them having a good time after hardship WITH THEIR FOUND FAMILY.
Think about this for a second: You are in Hell, your life is shitty and you get to a place where the people are nice to you. You don't need to fear being stabbed in the back for once. The hand that feeds you doesn't also hold a knife that is ready to twist once you turn your back. These people become your friends. For the first time in your un-life you feel like you reached a place. A home. You don't need to be afraid anymore. You can stop running. Then you redeem yourself only to be fucking alone in Heaven again.
I don't know about any of you, but only thinking about that makes my heart ache. -> Just speaking for the main cast here because of course relationships will be different if the Hotel was at full capacity.
There is also the fact that the Hotel, if it is meant to be a mainstay of the redemption system, needs people to run it. It can never be only Charlie and Vaggie in the long run. And I don't mean just staffing it with Imps and calling it a day. I mean Sinners that can help others. Also investing in a real therapist would probably be a good idea but that's a different story, lol.
So here's what I'm thinking: I think it would be nice if the main cast were to end up just running the Hotel. Since we don't know how the whole system between Heaven and Hell really works, we can only guess. I think the system needs changing and eventually will reach some form of equilibrium where human souls can redeem themselves to Heaven or fall to Hell. As a continuous cycle. (Right now it is more like a one-way ticket to eventual annihilation of souls)
What about Angel, then? What if he becomes free of his contract? He is not currently "staff" a the Hotel. He is just full on resident. Well I think there is something to be said about the Hotel needing someone who can do stuff like physical therapy. I can totally see Angel doing poledancing lessons and doing some proper trust- or teambuilding exercises by way of sports.
He is also a soon-to-be ex-junkie who can probably impart some wisdom to people who may be in similar situations. People with a lot of life experience are usually really good teachers. And Angel has been in Hell for a long time by this point.
That is, once he himself goes through more character development. It's been set up in season 1 already.
I think a lot of characters are set up to go through a lot of delicious character development in the coming seasons and I'm all here for it.
It's one of those super rare "ear reactions" from Alastor that get me about this scene. That only happens when he is especially emotional about something. Just remember that the most Vox got was a slight turn backwards of the ears. And here Alastor has them tilted forwards. The whole gesture is mocking contempt and I'm CHOMPING at the bit to know what it is about.
(EDIT: Had to rewatch 'Stayed Gone' to confirm, but Alastor DOES tilt his ears forward for Vox as well. In the same gesture of contempt he displays with Adam)
Of course, common theory would be that Lilith is the connecting element here.
But who knows?
All I can think of is: There has to be something to this line specifically. It is framed so dramatically and delivered with such gusto and emphasis that it HAS to be something specific that Alastor is referring to here. He knows something about Adam that the audience doesn't and as always with Alastor, he weaponises other's insecurities (or at least tries to) with his words.
I am so normal about this!
Thinking about how language in Hell would work. With so many different nationalities and so many timeperiods clashing on each other, there have to be entire Sinnerpopulations that simply can't understand each other. Zestial, just to name one example, is very hard to understand if you're not already familiar with this speech pattern. And he isn't even speaking a different language.
Except....maybe they can.
I was recently musing (ha!), yet again, about how Hell is a musical and you can apparently just pull other people into your song. It's been demonstrated by Charlie in episode 1 and Lucifer in episode 5 that they can apparently just pull unwitting bystanders into their musical numbers. We could argue that it also works if you are willing and able to join into a song as demonstrated in episode 2.
So since my imagination is already running wild: I imagine that the person initiating a song leads a song in a language they speak and everyone joining in will automatically understand the lyrics and is able to sing along. The magic lasts for as long as the song lasts (since we can think of musical numbers as single spells and the magic that overrides the confusio linguarum lasts for as long as the spell does).
Think about Team Alastor would be just happy to perform songs in different languages as a trio. When being asked what the songs are about, Alastor and Niffty will refer to Husk if it is a song in russian, for example. Or Niffty will answer when it's a song in japanese.
"What do you mean? I don't speak russian. But HE does. I simply join in and perform along as the piece requires."
Lucifer's visible confusion about how Sinners are so chaotic, they found a way to circumnavigate that whole "Babel" debacle, is just the cherry on top.
The thought came to me while listening to a few tracks of the absolutely delightful Band Otava Yo
ok, alastor thought/theory dump:
i think HIS magic is the green. i see why it could by the color of his deal but the chain he had on husk was green and based off valentino and angel it’s safe to assume the chain color is the overlords. i think all green magic is his.
however when his eyes go all radio dial creepy they turn black, which, in my opinion, shows his soul isn’t his when he’s using his powers, similar to how angel only has one black eye because valentino only owns his soul in the studio.
it’s honestly a confusing mix, when he uses his powers his soul isn’t his, but they are HIS powers. so i think it’s most likely he sold his soul to make it easier to gain power on his own. he’s not stupid, if he got power through a deal the deal maker now has an element of control over his power. so he cuts corners, and with the help of presumably lilith, becomes more and more powerful.
if the deal was the source of his power he wouldn’t say that getting out of it will let him “pull the strings.” he wouldn’t even WANT out of it, his only motivation that we are certain of atm is power and control, and yes his deal takes his control but if it gives him his power losing that would take BOTH.
i think a crucial bit of information were missing is when did this deal happen and how does husk know. (and why didn’t alastor kill him but that’s vaguely explainable)
was it when he first got down? young and dumb and selling his soul, which would explain how he made such a big splash so quick? or was it seven years ago? gaining power at the expense of leaving hell with lilith to do god knows what?
i think it’s far more likely to have been when he first got to hell, and lilith was able to exercise her control over him to get him to leave with her. obviously his place in the hotel isn’t because he’s bored, that’s been made clear several times. so why?
it’s possible it’s part of his deal with lilith but she’s still such a mystery i don’t think it’s safe to say anything about her. alastor said in ep 7 that charlie was powerful, being on her side was a good bet, and he could mold her. based on that and his presumably genuine interest in everyone, i think he’s choosing to be there. it’s chess, moves and counter moves, etc. he stays at the hotel and he isn’t lying when he calls it his latest project. he’s just lying about why. he saw naive charlie on tv and knew she would welcome him in, hence his evil little grin. that’s HIS choice, not liliths.
now, for his monologue in the tower. i’m going to be working off the idea everything in the song was an intentional decision and not made for the sake of sounding good.
“this place reeks of death, there’s a chill in the air” that seems like filler, painting the scenery, but i don’t think so. i think it’s meant to show he cares about the hotel and the people in it. he can physically FEEL the tragedy affecting him. he might not be as distraught about it as someone else, but he does care.
“i barley escaped being KILLED by a hair” he put emphasis of killed while singing, that’s the key take away. he almost died. he’s coming to terms with the limit of his power and it’s driving him insane. and i think it’s important to note that… he kinda, didn’t? almost die? his microphone broke (which does show power far greater that him) and he got thrown against the wall. that’s hardly enough to kill someone. he’s been untouchable most if not all of his time in hell, so this fight was a brutal reminder he IS vulnerable. he told adam he though he was tougher than him. tougher that the first ever soul and someone only lucifer was able to take down. his ego definitely got killed but i think this line shows he’s never really processed the idea of losing.
“‘alastor altruist died for his friends’” if you watch with captions you can see that line is in quotation marks. someone else is saying that, meaning he thinks the general perception of what happened will be that his reason for almost dying is to save the people in the hotel. but that’s just the words, next step is his facial expression. his eyes are wide and darting around, he’s gripping his face, he’s TERRIFIED. love is a weakness, he’s not just feeling weak (which IS part of why he’s spiraling), he’s being perceived as weak, which is so much worse. he’s losing his control and needs it back, leading to:
“sorry to disappoint, that is not how this ends.” there’s a couple things with this line. the Vs and other overlords will be disappointed because he’s not dead and his “friends” (his word, not mine, but i think it fits) will be disappointed he’s not willing to die for them like they maybe assumed he did. “not how this ends” is obvious, he didn’t die, so his rein didn’t end. but pulling back to his desperation in this scene, he’s angry, his latest power grab isn’t working out, but it will.
“i’m hungry for freedom like never before, the constraints of my deal surely have a back door ” again with the desperation, the fear, not sure if mania is the right word but it’s what comes to mind. he’s scrambling. but at the same time, how did his deal almost make him die?? he wants out of it, hence why i said i doubt it gives him his powers, so it must in some way limit his powers? but why would he make a deal that hinders him? again, this is why i think when he first got to hell he sold his soul to make it easier to gain his own power. but in some way his power isn’t HIS. it still is on a leash.
“once i figure out how to unclip my wings, guess who will be pulling all the strings” is showing us how he is still very VERY much power driven, and will stop at nothing to get control. he may be bound now, but in season two i think we’re gonna see a lot of him trying various means to break deals. i doubt he will be the big boss at the end of the season, but he’s playing his own game, and he is CRACKING. he’ll be violent, have an even quicker temper, charlie is going to try to help him but he’ll refuse. his mouth is sewn shut, so he can’t say WHY he’s so upset, but everyone will know something is wrong.
good GOD that was long
TLDR: “i think when he first got to hell he sold his soul to make it easier to gain his own power. but in some way his power isn’t HIS. it still is on a leash.”
thought dump cause idk if it means anything or even got to put it into words but theory’s:
roo being short for “root of all evil”
eve - evil
it was eve eating the apple “that came with a curse” that allowed evil into earth
“what a soul can accomplish when they take charge of their own fate”
the eyes popping up when eve ate the apple and roos design having a shit tone of eyes
alastors deal could be with lilith, “empowering demon kind with her voice and songs” - voice is put separately from songs, putting emphasis on it
or it could be with eve/roo - taking charge of their own fate, the eye on his mic, i like the theory he made a deal while he was alive
lilith probably won’t be the big bad? her deal could be to stop uniting the demons and she could stay in heaven
alastor will have to start making power plays and big moves in order to compensate for losing in front of the vees
emily will probably try to reach out to charlie and let her know about sir pentious but sera will likely try to cover it up because it’s proof the hotel works
emily might end up fallen?
carmilla will hopefully work with them (or at least vaggie) more
I NEED MORE ROSIE CONTENT
NOT JUST BEING BESTIES WITH ALASTOR, HER BEING “AUNTIE ROSIE” TO CHARLIE, GIVING HER STORY AND HER OWN MOTIVES AND BEING ALL PROPER AND SWEET BUT ALSO SNAPPING AT SOME POINT AND SHOWING HER FULL DISPLAY OF POWER
the vees are gonna get FUCKED😭
i want alastor to experiment with how deals can be broken, and if he does he’ll probably test it on the vees and their subjects, maybe using angel? saying it’s detrimental to the hotel and its security to have someone under the vees contract living there so they work out how to free him?
i want more vaggie and charlie moments, they didn’t get enough solo time
i hope they don’t reveal who alastors deal is with right away
i got side tracked from theory’s to hopes but that’s why it’s called a thought dump :P bye
something i haven’t seen ppl talking about is the “‘you’re telling me you’ve never had a drink with friends after a tough day?’ ‘we don’t have tough days in heaven’” and “i’ve never made a mistake in my fucking life” lines we get from adam cause i feel like they highlight so much about heavens injustice
if they are holding sinners in literal HELL to the same standards as they hold for themselves in heaven, who’s to say they don’t hold the desperate and needy, those who did wrong because they were threatened or in danger, to the same standards as the rich, powerful, well-off, and strong? a mother stealing in a desperate attempt to ward off starvation for her children has committed the same crime as a upper class white dick-head stealing a car for the fun of it.
(which also brings me to one of my biggest issues with real life christianity/catholismand the idea of original sin but that’s another post)
“the rules are black and white” and they meant that LITERALLY, they don’t care about circumstances, there is no elaboration, if you tick the box, you go to hell, no questions asked
and then adam saying he’s never made a mistake??? he lost his wife to the literal devil cause he was such a dick?? and he literally ALSO ATE THE APPLE????? THE VERY THIBG THAT DAMNED HUMANITY?? i don’t know exactly what direction the show will take in s2 but i am hoping we see more elaboration of the blatant bigotry and bias in heaven. the system that empowered men and demonized women from the beginning of humanity.
my personal head cannon (excuse) for alastor being black but also being light skinned and having straight hair (aside from the obvious one that he’s mixed) is it was his disguise when he was alive.
whenever he killed and hid the bodies, he would either straighten his hair or (as i prefer) wear a wig/the severed scalp of one of his victims (i go with his dad, whom i hc as his first victim), he would paint his face lighter, and wear tall heels/platforms. it would ensure that is anyone saw him from a distance, no suspicion would be put on him. it would also help throw off the scent for the killer to have been a tall white man with straight hair if he was a short(er) mixed man with curly hair. and given the fact that he would have died in this disguise, that’s the form that would have carried with him into hell
obviously this is just head cannon, but i personally like to picture his human form to have been a bit more obviously black
i don’t know if alastor is so arrogant he didn’t bring an angelic weapon to his battle with adam or if it has to do with his deal?? i mean he can clearly weild angelic weapons given the shield he made had a bunch of them, and he KNOWS it’s their only weakness, so????? he’s arrogant sure, but i didn’t think he was stupid? and blaming his defeat in his deal? idk his whole character is a mind fuck and i’m excited for s2
is vaggie mexican? /genq
still new here and ik the pilot is still canon but she says “taco” is a racist stereotype towards her but from what i’ve heard at the time she wasn’t meant to be a fallen angel but instead a sinner so…
if that is still cannon does that mean exterminators we’re regulator humans who, like adam, became angels and then got recruited or??
its most likely just a no longer cannon statement but it could be that she was lying and given the fact she knew spanish just pretended to be mexican/hispanic so people wouldn’t question where she came from and was playing it up
Lute obviously doesn’t like the idea of sinners being redeemed. (Source: all her dialogue referring to sinners, ever). But what if, in trying to turn heaven towards her ideals to gain more power, she uses the fact that redemption is possible to blame Sera for Adam’s death, then slowly changes the ideals she speaks of to fit her original violent nature with the ‘winners’ of heaven not even realising they’ve been conned into thinking something completely opposite to the original.
Lute and Adam are clearly meant to depict the more violent and prejudiced side of Christianity ( with Sera being more ignorant and stuck in her ways than actually ‘evil’, like your grandma that still says slurs because she thinks its okay) so why not go the whole way and have Lute as a cult leader type character. Using Adam as her martyr and Sera as her focal point for blame she could get a large following.
For a more in depth look, it could go something like this:
Lute finds out about Pentious, realises that she’s got barely any exterminators left to lead and that if this gets out the winners and probably some of the heaven born would want to help more people get up (i think its cannon that they don’t remember anyone from earth that went to hell, but imagine if someone were to remember Pentious and convince others that there were people in hell that they knew and loved, just didn’t remember).
She knows she can’t just straight up target Pentious, as people admire him for rising. Lute goes for the next best thing, Sera, blaming her for Adams death. With the right words the angels in the courtroom may back her up despite what she says. If Lute pretends to repent for all the killing because it wasn’t necessary she could drag people in VERY quickly with pity points from being ‘used’ by Sera. Since she lied to Emily it’s entirely possible that at this point Emily would be super on Lute’s side.
From here, Lute can start to introduce the idea that while sinners can be redeemed, the hellborn are still dangerous. After all, it’s the influence of the hellborn that keeps sinners from the path of good, right? Exterminations start again, this time ONLY for the hellborn, flipping over the deal with Lucifer entirely so the exterminators have to take on a more stealthy approach. Revenge for Adam they all stick by, and they still think that by killing overlords that they’re going to help redeem the sinners.
Emily saw how Angel was treated by Valentino so it’s entirely possible that she’d, while not a fan of the violence still agree with the main message and fall down the same path as Sera (Killing THEM protects US).
Lute can then slowly go down the line as time goes on of, not just hellborn, but also very powerful sinners, but also all sinners close to overlords ect.
If she does it right, Lute can end up with the say in who dies and who doesn’t, who has the potential for redemption and who needs to die. (This is where i see Emily falling out and suspecting that Lute doesn’t actually want the sinners to be redeemed)
Anything Sera says is the opposite of what they need to do, if she preaches non-violence to make up for her errors the irony of Lute continuing to be violent after condemning Sera for it will be completely lost and they’ll blindly follow.
Lucifer gets to intercept at times but would he find it in him to kill angels who think that they’re HELPING the redemption effort?
Lute comes off as a character who is as clever as she is tough and after losing to Vaggie in a fight she’d be inclined to take a different option.
Eventually, Lute being shunned by others in heaven would be POETIC after what she did to Vaggie, so ending this plot point with the angels finding their way through her manipulation rather than a blunt murder is how i envision it. Of course it could be a range of factors that dissolve her following.
I don’t have any hope that this would actually happen in the show due to the complexity and I’ve not even mentioned how Lilith/Eve could fit into this, I haven’t even been specific about how Lute would treat the Hotel (a multitude of different, branching points there). I think this is good purely because many people have pointed out how Lucifer seemed unbothered during the finale and fighting misinformation is significantly harder than fighting in the physical sense so the hotel would lose some of its OP standing. Similar to how Alastor got beat up in the finale so the audience don’t view him as a catch all shield for the hotel.
(If anyone writes this or anything similar as a fic/ comic PLEASE tag me. I love braindumps but forming coherent and creatively adequate works takes more time and energy than i have in me)
This was meant to be a short little joke style theory but it turned into a character analysis so the before cut is the main interesting point and the rest you can read if you want my take on Vox as a whole, and what I personally would do with him nest season.
The reason why Vox hates the past so much is because he has so many regrets/ kind of hates himself for getting into the situation he's in where every waking moment is either dealing with his public image, dealing with Vals tantrum/manipulative bs (Yes I think Vox is being manipulated by Val I believe in the "Val can secrete a date r*pe drug type substance in his saliva") OR endlessly trying to make power grabs to "prove himself". The other overlords DO NOT like this man, I reckon that upsets him more than he lets on (my theory as to why he sent Velvett to that meeting instead) .
Vox focuses on "upgrading" because facing his past and where he fucked up is his literal worst nightmare. It just so happens that part of his past that he regrets (Alastor, whether you think it was a failed romantic proposal or not it CLEARLY had a big affect) is somebody who embodies the past.
He moves away from past technology to move away from Alastor. He constantly upgrades himself/ his products because looking into his past is not something he wants to do.
Of course, that only worked for 7 years, now Al is back he's FORCED to face at least some of where he fucked up which is why when we see him, despite being an overlord, he looks incredibly pathetic. It's not that his power level is so much below Alastor, (though that could be a factor) but he's facing his worst nightmare every time the deer fucker shows up.
Alastor pisses him off sure, but what really gets him so twitchy and almost paranoid is what Alastor represents, his past.
This isnt trying to defend Vox or whatever but I do think that he's the least objectively evil out of the Vees. To me he's a "doesn't want to be evil he just wants recognition and oops, now you've got it through bad means" kind of guy who's been teamed up with a sleezy manipulative asshole who doesn't seem to have any motivation other than just enjoying being a creep. And Velvette, who while we haven't seen anything super bad yet, she clearly endorses Val (the love potion advert) and is also more abrasive than Vox.
Its even more so shown in the finale when Vox is super exited about something (it's Alastor dying, but still) and the other two are just completely uninterested until it benefits them.
I've seen some people saying that Vox and Val are the main and Velvette is the one that's off to the side out of the three but despite doing, whatever you want to call THAT in the finale with Val, Vox is more obviously the one who doesn't line up with the other two as well.
Vox probably wished he'd pursued a deal with Alastor rather than the Vees because then he'd get what he wants, to be recognised and respected. Even though Al does mostly command through fear there is respect for him among those who are more powerful than him, all save Lucifer of course. Vox on the other hand has basically no respect from anyone who he doesn't mind control, Velvette treats him like Val control and Val is CLEARLY using similar tactics that he would on one of his 'employees' on Vox. (Acting super whiny/ guilt to get what he wants, pushing his buttons to get a reaction after his initial outburst didn't piss Vox off enough, THE RED SALIVA). While the annoyance between the three seems to be just petty bullshit I'm certain that, at least on a subconscious level that Vox knows that if he hadn't got in with them that he'd be better off. VoxTech certainly seems the most lucrative out of what the three control. And the other two wouldn't exist if it warned for the tech HE supplies. (Vox is the real backbone of the Vees). This man clearly SO DESPERATELY wants attention and to be adored. Rather than hating him like I do with Val, it makes me pity him. And THATS the centre of all this, he is pitiful and so has MORE room for character development.
Its fully possible that he blames himself for fucking up whatever proposition he had for Alastor when in reality, Al is just an ass but Vox can't see that
Of course this is just my interpretation, but it'd make S2 where the Vees are confirmed to be a bigger focus much more interesting if Vox also gets this internal dilemma/ self doubt.
They could still feasibly swing in either direction of characyer development and I'd consider it well written and thats what makes him so interesting to me. He has so much potential for both good and for evil, also for general annoyance and comedy.
If it were up to me I'd do the megamind route of FINALLY letting the character win against their enemy, only to end up pissed off about it because the person they pinned all their problems on wasn't actually the cause of them, then swing in a completely different direction because this is hell and the feel good stories are reserved for characters who believe in therapy. Maybe a song where Vox prevails, only to then later reprise in a version where he loses his sense of self a little, maybe finally realises how little the other two care after he finally bests Alastor in something but it doesn't matter because he "didn't get any new territory or souls" or something along those lines. A second song could be Vox actually coming into his own more with a song all about him, nobody singing over or with him. It doesn't even have to redeem his character it would just be singling him out as Vox, not one of the Vees.
This ramble was brought to you by the powers of procrastination. Congrats on actually reading all that shit. (And lmk if you'd add anything in your opinion?) =3.
Saw your comment on my Vox analysis and Yep! I'd love to say my bit on this!
In short, I agree mosly with what you've put here. Even of some of the details dont fit with how I perceived the character before it does all make perfect sense.
One key point I'd like to mention is you bringing up Vox being super insecure. Not only do I think this would be a major point in what drives him away from Alastor (trying to change too much/ affecting Alastor) but I think it would have gotten significantly worse after the 'breakup'. Losing that respected connection must have been hard on him and sort of contributes to why I think Val and Vel get away with their shit.
Your statements fit in well into another post I have scheduled about how there's a sweet spot of time between "experienced enough to survive the exterminations" and "dumb luck and not having been in hell for long (so there's no bad reputation to get you used as Angel bait)". The old timers don't respect the younger ones because they probably haven't had to struggle as much, fight their way to the top. The Vees thing is literally mind control/ coercion so it makes sense that the older overlords are pissy that they had to make proper deals for their souls but because of how tech addicted the new gen is the Vees had an easy in.
(It really is those damn phones, lol)
This applies tenfold for Alastor and Vox, since Alastor would have to work hard to build a reputation, not only in death but in life too. Having Vox come in and attempt to wow the masses with lots of flashing lights and pretty pictures probably pissed him off, with the tipping point being, as you say, when Vox tried to influence or 'upgrade' Alastor.
The bit about picking sides is very interesting too. Vox would surely be known for falsifying things or embellishing the truth since that's what gets viewers. Alastor must've built up a reputation of being at least somewhat more trustworthy as an information source, so even if Vox only pissed Al off a little Al could 100% get away with telling whatever side of the story he wanted, shown by how quickly he captivates Vox's viewers after being away for 7 YEARS. That was a long winded way of saying that Vox has a messed up reputation because of how much more they trust Alastor rather then just his own actions.
Them being a well known alliance is kind of a given for me, it seems obvious that what they had must've been A, meaningful and somewhat long term. And B, public or semi-public.
Alastor being the one to approach Vox seems like it's not only the most reasonable, but also most heart wrenching. It's entirely possible that Al wanted Vox's soul or a 'sidekick' type thing to, as you said, do his paperwork and boost his ego then after having a partnership decided he'd rather have a 'friend', then Vox pissed him off so much he can't even be bothered to off him. There has to be something stopping Alastor from just killing Vox and I dont think it's power levels or reputation. Alastor could not give less of a fuck about killing overlords for the fun of it, so having Al be the original instigator of their partnership adds layers.
The final(ish) thing I'd like to add here is that its confirmed that the 'final straw' was Vox asking Al to join his team. If they already had an alliance why was this a problem?
Vox wanted to branch out and have others (Val and Vel) involved. He was so focused on upgrading and bettering he didn't realise how negative they could be for his and Alastors reputation, so when he asked Al to join them after entering another partnership behind his back, Al completely dropped him. (Vox, punished for his hubris)
Of course it's entirely possible it happens very differently to this in the show but I cant see any Canon confirmed events that actively go against what you've said, and subtext/ voicing of the characters seems to support the main idea even if I've gone haywire with the specifics.
Ty for asking for my input! Vox is a fun character to talk about! =3.
(Also petition for a Vox and Al duet in a flashback because I want a parallel to stayed gone, and this show seems to progress individual characters/duos the best in song format)
Saw your comment abt having a long theory/headcanon abt Al and Vox's Alliance/friendship, so like, share with the class, I need to hear every single theory abt them, I'm so normal abt them
Well since you asked~: I think that they not only had an alliance but it was actually ALASTOR that formed it. I know a lot of people think Vox would be the one to approach Al, I don’t think that would work. Vox would either be a nobody or a newcomer at the time they would meet. Al is arrogant and likes to be in control of things. He wouldn’t hear out Vox. BUT other way around makes sense. Alastor could have used the reasoning of “I’m bored and wanna see if alliances are entertaining” or (my theory) “This guy’s power can boost my own and vice versa…plus, I don’t want to do all the boring Overlord paperwork.” Because if the whole “Alastor became an Overlord due to technicality” thing is still canon, then he wouldn’t have signed up for anything but his own goals. Vox was probably atleast kinda interested in Alastor and also saw the potential of teaming. They worked kinda well up until their individual flaws started to bother each other. And no, I don’t think the main reason was: Old vs New. I think it was the conflicts underneath that issue that led to them becoming enemies. Actual conflicts: 1) Alastor is a mysterious loner who likes to keep things close to chest and Vox literally has cameras everywhere and wants to be on top of everything going on. Including with what his business partners are doing. 2) Alastor is arrogant and hates change, especially changing things for others (“People don’t like my radio shows? Don’t care! I do it for myself and those that do like it”) and Vox constantly needing attention and validation due to his own insecurity (“I’m losing viewers?! Quick, what trending right now? Or how can I improve this to be better?”). And finally 3) They both have tempers and think they’re usually in the right.
This also makes me think that it had to be Vox’s fault (Kinda) for the ‘breakup’. Alastor has been shown to be too stubborn to admit when he’s wrong and too tolerant of people doing things he shouldn’t tolerate just because they either get on his good side or are useful to him (*cough* Mimzy *cough*). So he probably would tolerate (to a degree) Vox’s constant need for attention and validation and constant push for fame and change. But, Al also has strict lines in the sand he won’t stand and when they’re crossed he snaps VERY aggressively (Husk touching a secretive matter when he is already pissed off in that hallway scene). So I can easily see Vox ‘improving’ (completely modernizing it or just putting things in there without permission) Alastor’s radio station as being enough to make Al destroy their alliance for good and make Vox look really bad. And this would also explain how the other Overlords see the Vees. Vox got a seat on their table by being buddy buddy with one of the most feared and THE most unpredictable Overlord. But if their partnership failing was seen as Alastor deeming the newcomer as a failure then the other Overlords would see Vox and the other Vees in a similar negative way (“Smug wannabes, who don’t heed when they’ve been warned!” -Carmilla). Because despite Zestiel questioning Alastor and Carmilla’s snide remark, they still treat Alastor (Guy who disappeared for 7 YEARS and hasn’t been doing much after killing other OVERLORDS they probably knew for a longer time) with a lot of respect. Zestiel still gives him proper greetings and more respectfully talks to him versus how he talks to Velvette. And Carmilla, still does welcome him back. He literally sits near the oldest out of all of them and the leader of the meeting. VS Carmilla acting like the Vees were either expected not to show or weren’t even invited. Zestiel rudely interrupting Vel while she’s talking, to point out how she’s wrong without letting her finish. And again, Vel seems to assume the end of the table is for her, as if the Vees are usually seated at the very last spot available. And the Vees have been around for those 7 years gaining more power. Almost like the old-timers once gave the newcomers a chance at the table but they ruined it for themselves. (*cough* one of the most powerful and vicious overlords in a group took one of you under his wing and you somehow ended up destroying that powerful alliance and replacing it with a loud pimp and a rude brat. *cough*)
SO…That my Ted-Talk. I basically do think Al and Vox were a famously good alliance at one point amongst the Overlords but when their flaws got on each other’s nerves and they ‘broke up’ (professionally/platonically), even the other Overlords simply around the two started to pick sides. I.E: Old-timers seeing the arrogance and foolishness of the young blood vs The Vees seeing a bunch of pompous fossils refusing to change for the better.
P.S. This makes me REALLY curious about Miss Zeezi since she obviously is from a more modern era (70s or 90s). Did she somehow get on the Vees bad side and that made the old-timers like her or something? Or did one of the Old guys do what Al and Vox did but make it work this time?
hihi!! quick theory abt niffty’s death:)
i just noticed this while drawing her, but i think she was shot bc of the pattern on her chest.
they look like gunshots with blood right? idk if this theory has been made b4 but yknow
just a theory:)
Whoever Owns Alastors Soul Made Him A OverLord. Think About It:
We All Know He’s “Oh A Leash” In Husk’s Words, And We All Know What Those Words Mean: Alastor Made A Deal, One That Traps Him, One That Chains Him, One He Can’t Get Out Of. And He’s A VERY POWERFUL Overlord? How? Why Would An OVERLORD Need Or Want To Make A Deal That Doesn’t Benefit Them? That Instead, Shackles Them?
Do You Get Where I’m Coming From???
Alastor Sold His Soul To Someone, For Power! And It HAS To Be Someone In A High Place, Like; A Sin, Lucifer, Lilith, Eve! HELL It Could Even Be Charlie.
And He Uses Fire??? Vivsiepop, You Make My Job Easier!
I Just Realized Some Things, And Bloody Hell It’s Huge!
With Adam Dead & Gone, Heaven Lost It’s Biggest Opposer To Letting Sinners Into Heaven. He’s One Of The Only Two Angels Who So Openly Opposed To Charlie’s Dream. Without Him There’s Only Lute Left. Which Let’s Face It, Lute Wouldn’t Openly Go Against Sara’s Word, Like Adam Did, Plus Lute’s Only One Angel, What’s Worse Is; She’s Not All That Special, She Doesn’t Even Have A Real Rank, She’s Just Some Random Angel Who Got In Good With Adam & So, Was “Allowed” To Do Things Others Couldn’t.
Adam’s A Fallen Angel Now, Think About It; Do You Really Think The Holy Dagger Was The Thing That Killed Him? I Certainly Don’t. But This Isn’t About His Death It’s About The Possibility That Adam’s A Fallen Angel. He Was A Angel And He Died In Sin, His Halo Is Broken, Lute Took It, Effectively Making Him Again; A Fallen Angel, This Also Keys Into The Hotel; If Charlie Can Redeem Him, I Think Heaven Would Be Even More Inclined To Help Her.
TLDR; Adam’s Dead + Lute’s Powerless = Sinner’s Go To Heaven!