Hellaverse Lucifer - Tumblr Posts

Having read your analysis on Bee, I found myself thinking up a scenerio wherein Mammon chews out the other Sins. Like, the others air out their grievances with Mam and how him personifying Greed rather than encouraging it is giving them a bad public image, what with them being what is basically celebrities in the context of the show. Mammon would sat through it, silently glaring at the others, and when they’re done, he just tears into them. Mammon then proceeds to pick apart the other Sins’ actions and behaviors, noting how they used to personify their respective vices before eventually becoming the watered down versions of themselves they are in the present, probably even questioning why they’d even bother doing so in the first place. The others would probably try to “high road” him, but Mam isn’t having any of it and admits that, yes he is an unapologetically shitty person, but at the very least he’s honest about it, unlike them and the countless skeletons they undoubtedly keep in their closets. (I always interpreted Mammon’s only reason for trying to (poorly) hide his greedy nature is so he doesn’t alienate his potential consumers) Eventually, Mammon decides he’s tired of the conversation, notes he’s got a hot date with a recent divorcee later, and teleports away, leaving the others to stand in awkward silence, none of them willing to admit that Mammon’s verbal eviseration was right on the mark.

Sorry for the wall of text, just sort of had a flash of inspiration from your analysis.

Mam chewing them out would be extremely cathartic to see. After giving it some thought, I think Ozzie and Bee might be the only Sins that go out of their way to "mitigate" their public images. It would work especially well if Mammon reminds them of how well they used to get along and how, unlike Ozzie, he hasn't gone out of his way to antagonize them despite their "growth".

To elaborate on the Bee and Ozzie thing, Lucifer is canonically a pretentious ass to everyone but his family, Bel is highly implied to be so apathetic and lazy that she uses Sloth's general population as her test subjects and is likely too apathetic to care about appearances. What we've seen of Wrath doesn't paint the best picture of Satan, and it's too early to say anything about Levi, or Envy in general.

Nice to see the Golden Goose agenda spreading. And don't sweat it, text walls written in streams of consciousness are always more than welcome here!

Here’s a wholesome Charlie and Mammon idea I’ve had for a while:

Often when Mammon babysat little Charlie, she’d more or less climb all over him like a little monkey or have him carry her around like the little princess she was. This would frequently lead to Mammon have to go about his day with Charlie perched on his shoulder or sleeping on top of his head. None of Mammon’s employees or servants would comment on this for fear of provoking him and the other Sins (and Lilith) would either fawn or jealously fume at the sight.

Going off of the above, I can also imagine a young Charlie laying on a Mammon’s stomach, My Neighbor Totoro-style.

YESSS!!!!!💚💚💚

Mam is a soft lad and a loving uncle. I love the idea of him being Charlie's favorite pillow, so forgive for ranting about it with the following HCs.

The Sins had a rough schedule for when they would babysit and Charlie would get super pouty when Mammon could make it.

I like to think that out of all her aunts and uncles, Mam talked to Charlie the most when she was just starting to talk and one day she called him "Unky" and he damn near sobbed on the spot.

The nickname stuck over the years and made the others, especially Ozz, really butthurt. Example:

----

*during a meeting*

Amsodeus: So, Luci, need me to fill in tonight?

Lucifer: Oh, no, that reminds me actually, Mammon, do you think you could look after Charlie tonight, she really wants to see you again.

Mammon: Sure, love t-

Asmodeus: Hold the fucking phone, what do you mean she "wants to see him"? How do you know that? She can barely speak!

Lucifer: She drew this. *Pulls out a drawing with a little red triangle labeled "ME" and a bunch of green triangle labeled "Unky"*

Mammon: Aww... Can I keep it.

Lucifer: No. This is going on the fridge.

*after the meeting*

Asmodeus: Why do you get to be Unky? >:{

Mammon: Cuz I'm her favorite. >8)

Amsodeus: No you're not! (Author's note, yes he is)

----

Another idea I had was that when Charlie's a little older her private tutors would give her homework and she'd always work on her math when Mam was looking after her.

Since Mam's the businessman to end all businessmen he sure as shit wasn't gonna let his niece be bad at math. He'd keep her company while she was doing her homework and give her some tips if she got stuck, without just telling her the answer. Usually they would do this routine while he was laying down and holding any books Charlie wasn't currently using as Charlie laid on top of him.

I know this was way more than you asked for but I love the money spider and think about him probably more than is healthy.

If you want a loving villain couple just do what everyone else is doing, ship Golden Goose.

What we want: Lucifer and Lilith being completely in love with each other and have a Gomez and Morticia dynamic and his wife is the only one that he doesn't care is taller than him it likely turns him on. All hail Mommy Dommie Lilith!

What we're likely to get: They're divorce and Lilith is Stella 2.0 with Luci being another 'uwu sad man' that Viv likes so much.

I love Luci, but Dylan Saunders.... He should've been voiced by Dylan Saunders.

If you don't know why, then watch Twisted.

It wouldn't be that big a stretch, they already got Darren Criss.

Edit: To clarify, I love his voice acting as is, but as someone who's hopelessly addicted to Starkid I just go a bit nuts when he gives higher Dylan character vibes than he usually does.

He really pulled this card! He's trying to relate to her so bad, bless his efforts.

My boy!

More like Precious, am I right?

A snake damned humanity.

And a snake gave humanity it’s best shot at redemption.

Hopping back online to share a Charlie and Mammon headcanon.

Now, I know the out of universe reason why the Loo Loo Land jingle contains “I have a dream/I’m here to tell” was a case of VA shenanigans that Viv decided to put in the show, but I had a neat idea for the in-universe reason why.

Basically, my idea is that the verse originated from when Charlie was pretty young and first getting into music. Naturally, her entire family were very supportive of this interest and eager to share their musical tastes and knowledge with her, with them eventually setting up a sort of rotation wherein Lucifer, Lilith and the Sins took turns giving her music lessons. One fateful lesson with Mammon on how to properly rock out led to him helping her brainstorm her own lyrics and melodies for the first time. After a lot of trial and error between Charlie’s inexperience and Mammon’s tendency to just riff on the works of others, the two came up with the iconic line and melody… without writing any other lyrics or harmonies to go with it. Mammon would eventually figure out a use for it, and while he will swear up and down that its just to promote his crappy amusement park, it’s really a way to keep that memory alive and going while sharing it with others… for a price, naturally.

Continuing from the above, Mammon has rather mixed feelings regarding Inside of Every Demon is a Rainbow. On the one hand, he’s overjoyed that his niece has taken something he helped her to create and used it to voice her dreams and convictions with every ounce of passion in her body. On the other hand, he (and likely the other Sins as well) isn’t that enthused about her ideas for rehabilitation given how it could affect the propagation of the sin he embodies. On the other, other hand, he can’t help but listen to and him along with the opening of the song as it warms his withered, old heart. On the other, other, other hand, Mammon can’t help but feel a little upset that Charlie didn’t come to him to help produce the song (and monetize it).

Sorry for for the wall of text, I’ve had this idea rattling around in my head for a while and I’ve been too busy to share it.

There is absolutely no need to apologies for something like! This, without hyperbole, captures exactly what I love about Mammon.

The lyric being used because of both his connection to Charlie and his sin-centric mindset, like the other sins.

Mammon, at least to me, values the feeling of a job well done as much as he values money and this captures it perfectly.

The way Lu Lu World is a passion project for Lucifer, Loo Loo Land at least plays host to a passion project of Mammon's.

The thought of little Charlie messing around with uncle Mammon in his music room/ recording booth is so wholesome, I adore it! Their dynamic has so much potential and exploring it is always fun. Any more discussion of it is more than welcome here!

I’ve been compiling a bunch of random headcanons & theories regarding the Sins. Just a heads up, it’s going to be kind of a long list:

Like Lucifer and his family, the Sins have surnames. The only exception is Mammon, whose legal name is ‘Mammon TM’, for branding purposes.

I don’t know if it’s been confirmed if the Sins are Hellborn or not, but I like to think that the Hellaverse sort of draws from Paradise Lost in that they were originally angels loyal to Lucifer before getting the boot after the stunt Luci and Lilith pulled in Eden. This would effectively make them the first sinner demons, which could be used to explain why sinners rank so high on Hell’s hierarchy.

Working off of the above, I thought it would be funny if Leviathan was originally a cherub prior to falling, either looking like some form of small fish or maybe even a prawn. Over the course of thousands of years living in Hell, he slowly grew into the titan of the deep he is in the present.

Speaking of Levi, I’ve mulled over what we discussed the other day, and I can picture him being the designated “creepy one” of the group. After all, still waters often have terrible and dangerous things lurking just below the surface. Given there is a lot of talk of Levi being a surfer dude, I feel like the thin veneer of a beach bum barely conceals something much darker. Everything he says and does just has this edge to it, which is just reinforced given he’s a massive sea serpent. Is his personality and use of surfer slang an act? Is it genuine? No one knows.

I like to think all of the Sins can naturally fly, regardless of whether or not they have wings. The only reason they (barring Luci and Bee) don’t regularly use this particular ability is a matter of practicality. Continuing this thought, I like the idea of them leaving trails when they fly, sort of like the Night Entities from Orion and the Dark. Like, Mammon leaves a trail of currency symbols, Bee’s trail resembles honey being applied by a bony wand, Satan leaves a trail of smoke and volcanic ash, etc.

Mammon is ridiculously agile, acrobatic, and can scale walls like Spider-Man. Most people don’t realize this given how he prefers to just teleport everywhere to get around.

While Wrath’s culture (when not geared towards agriculture) is centered around conflict, specifically martial conflict, I can easily picture Satan as trying to create conflict of all kinds. I mean, just imagine this giant, draconic demon cowboy/gym rat hopping on an internet forum or comment section just to start a flame war and watch the chaos unfold. This even extends to the other Sins, as he’ll just say or do minor shit to rile the others up.

I was thinking about your interpretation of how Belphagor and Baphomet could pan out and how Bel is fixated on efficiency. I feel that an outsider looking in would wonder why a laidback (and morally questionable) woman of science like Bel would go for a peppy and inviting guy like Baph, the answer being he’s efficient. Very efficient. The guy runs the ring and likely does far more behind the scenes, all the while finding time to keep a stable relationship with his wife, maintaining the Sloth ring’s facade of being a placid vacay spot, and being something of a large scale host and possible tour guide to people that come to Sloth to relax and likely roping them into/abducting some of them for his wife’s sketchy practices. Bel finds this workaholic level of efficiency very attractive.

When Charlie was little and the Sins took turns babysitting her, Satan and Belphagor were the only ones to actually dislike the duty. Satan didn’t want a kid around cramping his style & cutting into his workout regimen and Bel felt taking care of a child wouldn’t be conductive to her research & refused to let Baph watch her because it would cut into his carefully planned work schedule. This isn’t to say they don’t love their niece, they just aren’t the kind of people that want to deal with kids.

I’ve seen a lot of people joke about what’s under Mammon’s jester cap and my theory is that he basically has a bunch of spider legs growing out of his head like this:

Mammon’s “head legs” are probably one of the few things he’s actually self conscious about.

Given it’s been confirmed Bee’s stomach basically digests everything she eats almost immediately, I like to think that her weight and build actually fluctuates based on how much collective ambient gluttony is in a given area. In places/times where the majority of people feel gluttonous, she starts gaining weight, while gluttony being at its lowest causes her to start wasting away.

I remember you once suggested Andrealphus was incapable of having kids, hence Stella was born to keep the bloodline going and possibly try and climb the social ladder. It actually gave me the idea that Mammon is incapable of having kids of his own, hence his fixation on becoming a step-dad. With this in mind, I can picture his clown pageant being his way, through the lens of greed, of getting his own step-child, with the added bonus of getting a face for his brand. It’s debatable whether or not the thought of just adopting a kid ever crossed his mind.

The above point could also cause some Golden Goose angst.

I get the show kinda debunked the fanon idea of Lucifer playing the accordion, but I’m just going to ignore that in favor of a long-standing headcanon I’ve had. In essence, I thought it would be funny if Luci was a fan of polka to the point he actually made the other Sins learn how to play instruments traditionally used to play polka so they could all perform together. The others all hated it, but after Lilith left and they tried to get Luci out of his funk, they repeatedly offered to perform with him to no avail.

Continuing the music ideas, I can picture Bel being a fan of EDM.

As a testament to the Sins sheer level of power, if sufficiently motivated to do so they can actually reshape and restructure their respective domains. This naturally causes near incalculable damage and upheaval, while taking a lot out of them.

At some point early into Hell’s existence, Lucifer just kinda… snapped. He became a cruel tyrant that lined up more closely to traditional depictions of the devil, while Lilith and the Sins were at their all time worst as people. After several thousands of years of unspeakable evil, Lucifer and the others eventually grew out of their “tyrant phase”, eventually becoming who they are in canon. The event that got Lucifer, Lilith and the Sins to change (to varying degrees) for the better? Charlie’s birth.

I get that this is a lot and that your schedule has been thrown out of wack, but inspiration hit me like a speeding truck. Hope you like some of these.

Oh, I have a TON of thoughts about these! So, I'll spread out me responses in a 1 to 1 pattern

I always liked the idea of the Sins having full names, and the TM is perfect to Mammon

While I don't know if we'll ever get confirmation one way or the other, the Sins will, to me, always be found siblings who were once Heavens greatest circus before they were outcast for standing by their leader.

My design idea for Levi range from having transparent skin, to being partial rotted (like those videos of bottom feeders picking apart whale bodies). I'll be talking more about Levi's appearance in it's own post

At this point I'm starting to think the surfer thing is something the fandom gaslight itself with, because I can't find anyone genuinely claiming any such content was leaked. Personally, I see Levi as more of a sleazy editor/publisher, running the non-Pride news channels and most of Hell's print media. So basically, J. Jonnah, but he's a giant glowing eel.

I also think all the Sins have magical flight, but I also think that, like how Ozzie can manifest as a flame, Mam can manifest and move around as a lightning bolt.

YES! I love acrobatic Mam headcanons! My idea of him having needle like feet and his curly shoes being padded actually works really well with that. He can be very graceful when he wants to be.

Yeah, I think Satan would likely have a formalized way of doing this too, like, at some point personally declaring one side of a flame war the winners.

Yep, that's Bel and Baph in a nutshell. A lot of the mannerisms I envision for Baphomet come from the gag of Captain Fun and Activity Boy from the Jack Frost 2. (Look it up)

Again, I totally agree, I actually have a lot to say about Charlie and Bel's relationship, but that's for another time.

I like to think Mam has hair made of static electricity, it tingles to the touch, much like his webs.

Bee's consumption of emotions being what actually affects her body is a new idea to me, but one I love. Also kind of gives the impression she eats actual food mostly for the sensation of eating, which works pretty well.

My idea is that Mam can have kids, but always wanted it to be with someone he was absolutely sure about. However, Stella's trauma with essentially being forced to have Via gives him pause, it's a touchy subject for both of them.

Hah, nice. Also, I just leave this here, before rock existed, Mam was mostly into and performed opera.

Yeah, EDM is a good fit for Bel.

Oh, that's a new one for me. It's great! Might actually have a somewhat similar idea in the works....

This one I don't really jive with. I don't really like the idea of Charlie sparking all the Sins' character growth, but I do think they've all gone through a lot of "phases".

So, it took me a bit, but I can finally share some more Levi thoughts, including responses to some of your answers.

But first,

This actually reminded me of something, so, as I've made clear, I think that there being 2 main species native to Sloth is due to it having 2 Sine level rulers, but what about the other ring with 2 native species, Greed?

The harlequins are clearly tied to Mammon, they look skeletal because they all have exoskeletons, they're basically non-bug shaped creepy crawlies.

And then we have the loan sharks. Yeah, I'm saying there was a second sea serpent in the Sins old troupe and that they were in a relationship with Mammon before eventually dying. This might happened early on if they created the sharks during the fall conflict, or maybe they were exterminated, which sparked Luci getting hellborns legally protected from exorcists.

I have some more ideas on this topic, as well as multiple directions to take it, but they can wait.

Right, now for specific answers,

You kind of missed the point, though I admit I made said point poorly.

My actual concept was Levi sticking to written reviews, because he's generally someone who thinks out loud and doesn't like running the risk of accidently getting it out that he looks for reasons to be as harsh a possible.

HOWEVER, there is some truth to your idea, mainly, that Levi has 2 ways of carrying himself. He's usually somewhat chatty and, again, thinks out loud. But when someone's pitching a work to him, that's when totally shifts. He would casually welcome you to his office one second before sitting down, changing the tone of his voice and going:

"So, you have something you want published, right?" *leans forward on his desk and sets a timer on his phone* " Sell me on it. Now."

You go that right, Levi has a lot of incentive to breed competition between authors. It proliferates envy, encourages faster writing and gives him rivalries to cover in the slew of gossip rags he runs.

Also, for you Golden Goose idea, I love it and it also gave me the adorable visual of Stella giving Mam a little pep talk before a meeting.

Popping in to share some Levi brainrot I've been mulling over for a bit.

I noticed your idea of Levi making the Vees resentful, but I personally think the opposite is somewhat more likely, allow me to explain. Sure, Levi still has most of the market, but so do the other Sins, and they (or at least most of them) don't really have a concrete rival for their business, again, mostly *cough* Ozzie is shit at his job *cough*. Sorry...I've got a soar throat. Anyway, The fact the Vees are able to be an opposing monolith at all is enough to seriously get under Levi's slimy scales.

Speaking of his appearance, I have a rather ironic observation regarding Levi, given his nature, he's the most likely to be resentful of the other Sins' successes, he would also sometimes scheme against them. This made me think of the Divine Comedy and the treachery circle being a frozen lake. So I thought, what if Envy's ocean is distinguished by having a lot of ice in it?

Though everyone's heard his voice somewhere, Levi is generally more comfortable expressing himself through written means, this is partly due to it being easier to lie through writing, and partly because when people read a witty insult, it's easy for them to makeup the proper delivery for it in their heads.

Also relating to his work, Levi is a publishing titan and has an easy pattern for approval. 1- When someone submits a work, look for places you could insert discussion bait. 2- Tell them to add it in or you're not publishing their thing. 3- If they agree, go all out on promotion for like 3 weeks before release, if they don't follow their activities in the industry and crush them with a scathing review if they publish elsewhre.

Levi has 1-3 lairs of teeth, depending on what for he's in.

And that's it for Levi time, at least for now.

Really sorry for the late response, I’ve been pretty busy today and then I lost the original draft to my reply. I really enjoyed these ideas, so I’m going to address each point:

You raise a good point about Levi being the jealous one. Honestly, that opens the door for a really fun dynamic. While the other Sins don’t think the Vees, or any Overlord for that matter, are anything to worry about, and you’ve got Leviathan whose just seething in his custom built underwater mansion and ruminate over how a trio of dead people have managed to build up their own mini empire over a period of decades when it took him, a proper demon, centuries to get his publication business the way he likes it. Not to mention how they’ve got a hold over a good chunk of the Pride ring, while his influence is rooted in Envy (The fact that he has a pretty strong presence in the other five rings isn’t good enough). The other Sins have probably gotten on Levi’s case for obsessing over (what they see as) relatively minor stuff like this in the past, so he’s begrudgingly decided to settle on just trying to slander the Vees and their brand.

The Vees for their part see the fact that they caught the ire of a Sin as a mixed bag. On the one hand, one of Hell’s biggest names sees them as a big enough deal to try and slander them. On the other, they recognize they are in a precarious position given the possibility of Levi actually taking a more active approach to dealing with them. Of course, this doesn’t stop them from taking time to subtly aggravate him. Then of course, there is the possibility of the Vees actually being mutually jealous of Levi, if only for the fact they covet the power and status being one of the 7 Deadly Sins grants.

The idea that Envy is a massive ocean populated by frozen islands is really interesting, especially given how much it differs from all of the other locales shown in both shows, barring Andrealphus’ mansion.

Levi is definitely that relative that makes passive aggressive comments or backhanded compliments when you succeed and tells everyone when you’ve failed, and given his field of work, I do mean everyone.

You cannot convince me that Levi is not petty and selfish enough that he started complaining the second Lucifer and Lilith announced they were having a child, strictly on the grounds that it would take the public’s attention away from him.

Leviathan preferring nonverbal means of communicating is a neat idea, especially given how nicely it ties with him potentially being the “creepy one”. I mean, being in the presence of a massive sea serpent is bad, but being in the presence of one that just silently stares at you and covets what you possess is even worse. Then of course is the rare instance that he does address someone verbally, because that shows, without a shadow of a doubt, you have Leviathan’s full, undivided attention.

That abusive way of managing fits really well, but I feel he’d take it even further and pit those under him against one another, fostering a toxic work environment where all of his employees are at each other’s throats and jealously doing anything to make sure their work gets approved for publication.

I think Levi having multiple rows of teeth is really fitting given you suggested he looks like an eel, as real eels have a second set of retractable jaws and (it could just be me) how there have been some subtle hints that Envy has a subtle duality motif. But I feel that it would be neat if the concept was pushed even further and each row of teeth is actually an individual, nested mouth Levi could talk out of, both for added demonic appeal and the fact it would literally allow him to lie through his teeth.

Now, with all of that said here are some ideas I had after reading them:

I will die on the hill that Leviathan was once the smallest member of the Sins and used to be envious of the others for their greater statutes. Fast forward to the present, Levi has done a complete 180, because unlike the others, he can’t make himself smaller, only bigger than he already is. This in turn makes him envious of the more “normal” sized demons, as he’s now stuck as a big fish in a world that doesn’t always accommodate him.

While reading your Leviathan ideas, I actually had a Golden Goose idea. I imagine Mammon revealing he found love with Stella completely floored the other Sins (especially Asmodeus), as he had been married to his job for millennia. After Mam leaves the meeting the others talk between themselves about this development, which leads to Levi going on a tirade about how Mammon found love before he did (which he’s done every time one of them has taken a lover), which leads to this:

Leviathan: “What the fuck!? Mammon!? Fucking Mammon!? What does that green sack of shit have that I don’t!?” Satan: (Not even bothering to look up from his phone) “A girlfriend.” Leviathan:

Thanks for the ask, I hope you enjoy my ramblings.

Here’s one last round of headcanons & ideas I want to share before the grind of my classes really sets in:

Back when they were still a circus troupe, Asmodeus and Mammon had a stand up act wherein they would respectively take the role of the straight man and wise guy. Ozzie eventually grew sick of being the punchline to all of the act’s jokes and he eventually quit. This would be the start of Ozzie’s resentment towards Mam. Mammon for his part sort of had a Jack Fenton like fondness for Ozzie that made him oblivious to the patter’s growing disdain, at least until the events of the mid season finale caused them to come to the surface.

Prior to falling, Bee was a completely insectile angel. After getting exiled from Heaven and becoming a demon, adjusting to the fact she only retained a handful of her original buggy features was a major hurdle for her to overcome, with the creation of the Hellhounds being a major step in her coming to terms with her new body.

You mentioned Levi potentially undermining the others as part of him being the embodiment of Envy, and it got me thinking that this isn’t a behavior exclusive to him (granted, he’s probably the most active when it comes to tripping up the others). The Sins and what they embody don’t always gel well with one another, so, whether it be intentional or not, they tend to sabotage one another just as often as they manage to work together.

While the entirety of Sloth is basically Belphagor’s personal Petri dish, I doubt she’d stop at experimenting on her own subjects. I think she’d probably find a subtle way to broaden her test groups without upsetting the other Sins. Namely, by marketing experimental (and highly sketchy) pharmaceuticals to some of the other Rings. Like, anabolic steroids for Wrath, dietary supplements for Gluttony, “performance enhancers” for Lust, etc.

For some reason I can’t explain, my mental image of your interpretation of Baphomet looks like goat headed version of this guy:

Also, working off of your idea that Mammon used to perform opera, I think it would be neat if either Camio or Furfur were fans of/familiar with his older musical works.

I also like to think Mam’s opera career was his way of proving he wasn’t just a comedic clown, but also a dramatic clown. The mixed reception his operatic works received also could have contributed to his distaste towards performing.

Building on my idea of Lucifer going through a tyrannical phase, I feel he’d try his hardest to keep Charlie in the dark about that chapter of his life out of fear it would drive her away.

I also had the idea of Leviathan’s having a small inner circle of demons that resemble remoras he works with that are basically just a bunch of yes men trying to coast on their boss’s success and status.

My personal theory for the Ars Goetia’s origin in the Hellaverse is that founding members were angels that sympathized or identified with Lucifer and the others, and were consequently exiled to prevent further dissension in the ranks.

You cannot convince me that Mammon and Mimzy have not met at least once. With Mimzy’s ego, she’s probably convinced herself that she and Mam are as thick as thieves. Mammon, for his part, finds her overbearing and grating to be around, but lets her live her little fantasy as it makes her easier to con out of her money. As an aside, I like to think the Loan Sharks she was indebted to in Dad Beat Dad were on his payroll.

I don’t know why, but I kinda picture Satan as having glassblowing and possibly smithing as a hobby, with his personal dwellings have a lot of his work either on display or directly incorporated into the structure. All of it is done with his own barehands too.

I’m rather fond of the idea that Octavia got her taste in music from Stella (one of the few less refined indulgences she could manage growing), with the two bonding over their shared interest after leaving Stolas.

Since Mammon undoubtedly has strong ties with the crime families that inhabit his ring, I think it would be funny if at one point when Charlie was little there was a bit of a schedule overlap, wherein he has to babysit her at the same time he had a meeting with a mob boss. Shenanigans naturally ensued, which eventually led to a moment like this:

That’s all I’ve got for now. Hope you enjoy them.

I really like you idea for the Sins having more than 1 act tied to them. I love exploring Ozzie and Mam's dynamic, I especially like the idea of Asmodeus developing gradual resentment for Mammon, while he latter just sees him as an occasionally annoying younger brother. There's also the added irony that Inside no.9 has an episode about a failed comedy duo reuniting.

Ohh, Bee only getting canine traits after the fall is such a great idea! We could do a lot with this idea.

See, get what you mean and I agree, the Sins being a chaotic found family kind of comes with that. The point I was specifically trying to make it that Leviathan would probably be the only one to do it both intentionally and on the regular. Hope this clears things up.

Another great idea. I think Bel also forbids Bee from taking her party drugs is because the stash is always full of untested concoctions and she uses reverse psychology to make Bee take as much as she can for the parties so she can take stock of what was taken and track the side effects when they show up (because they always do) by comparing samples from patients to the testing samples she kept.

Yep, that's hitting the nail, but I must say, my favorite Baphomet idea is easily your concept of his Hawaiian shirt having medical patterns on it.

YEAH! Mam's older works still have plenty of fans. He tries not to show it, but he's always really happy to see his older projects being enjoyed and respected.

Yeah, he's a great creative, but his performances don't always stick the landing.

Absolutely, Luci would do literally anything to keep this from Charlie, he'll avoid the topic around the other Sins like the plague.

Levi's assistants being literal parasites like him is great, maybe he has cleaners who look lie deep sea prawns, too.

I really like the concept of the original Goetia being "lesser" rebels. Nothing more to say, really. Just a really solid idea.

Mimzy is one of Mammon's more recent disaster patsies, he keeps her around not just because she's easy to talk into pretty much anything, but because she's genuinely loyal to him, and most importantly, when he wants to test new loan sharks, he sees if they can survive tracking her down, they never catch her, she's too unpredictable for that, but making it out of chasing that walking disaster alive is an impressive feet for an average hellborn in it's own right.

Interesting, I had this ide of him having a thing for reenactments, since they're another great reason for fights and destruction.

This is so wholesome! I can picture a scene of Stella listening to something with earbuds and when she takes them out because Octavia wants to ask her something, Via is so surprised that she forgets what she was going to ask and they just end up talking about music.

Oh, that's amazing. This has a whole fic worth of potential, I can just imagine Charlie accidentally doing something that gets the most important gangster at the meeting killed and Mam, now with the big issue out of the way, just barks some quick orders to the ones who are left and they wordlessly shuffle out the door, making sure to avoid Charlie in the process. Of course, this would all happen when Charlie's too young to remember and Mammon wants to keep it that way, he knows she wouldn't be proud of it

Great ideas, all around, as always!

I know you’re on a Spooky Month kick and I’m mostly offline due to classes and work, but here are some Hellaverse ideas/headcanons I’ve come up with:

Satan and Mammon are both hoarders, but their reasons, what they hoard, and how they store it differs greatly. Satan’s hoarding tendency is related to how imps (which are associated with him) have a hoarding instinct according to Viv. He typically collects battle trophies and has all of them displayed throughout his personal dwellings, with his favorite trophies being displayed in his man cave/in home gym. Mammon‘s hoarding tendencies are an offshoot of him being the Sin of Greed. He collects pretty much anything that he has even a shred of sentimentality towards, ranging from old performing outfits to drawings a young Charlie gave him to the beta models of Mammon brand products. Mam’s collection is so big he stores it in a series of heavily guarded warehouses.

After Stella divorces Stolas and gets together with Mammon, they refuse to let Asmodeus live down how he unwittingly helped and enabled the prince beforehand. To Ozzy’s credit, he doesn’t offer much of an argument against them.

I’ve sort of always in visioned Mammon and Stolas first interaction going like that meme/video where a guy blows an air horn at a goose and yells “Get fucked!”.

The rare instances Belphagor actually talks instead of using her text-to-speech device, the other’s immediately start listening.

Sort of building off of the idea of Baphomet dressing like a tourist, he has a collection of different hats (primarily fishing, bucket, sun, & straw) that he’ll cycle through. All of them are specifically designed to accommodate his head candle(s).

I had an idea on how to (sort of) power scale the Sins: barring Lucifer who is on a different level by virtue of still having his angelic abilities, the Sins are more or less equal in terms of power, with each possessing specific areas that give them an edge over the others. To elaborate, Satan=physically the most powerful & durable, Leviathan=propaganda (I'm honestly not sure what to put here), Belphagor=smartest on a technical/mechanical level, Asmodeus=smartest on a magical level, Beelzebub=smartest on an emotional level, and Mammon=the single wealthiest demon in the entirety of Hell.

My idea for the Sins ages from old east to youngest: Lucifer, Belphagor, Leviathan, Mammon, Satan, Bee, and Ozzie.

Since we agree Levi is probably based on deep sea life, I really like the idea of him having bioluminescent markings all across his body that he can use to mesmerize weaker demons and possibly even use as a sort of built in light show whenever he performs.

Speaking of performing, I like to think that whenever the Sins get together, Baph doesn’t actually perform with them and is instead placed in charge with organizing and running the events.

I really enjoy the idea of their being a massive gallery in the Morningtars’ castle that contains nothing but the family portraits and pictures that have been collected over the millennia. The twist being that since the Sins, Lilith, and Charlie are some of the oldest beings in existence, these “portraits” range from cave paintings, to ancient mosaics, to intricate tapestries, to antique oil paintings, to monochromatic photographs. Naturally, each depiction has them in (mostly) period appropriate attire.

At the heart of the gallery is a massive painting that is essentially a cursed artificer in and of itself. It looks as surreal as a Hieronymus Bosch painting and has brutal imagery comparable to Francisco Goya’s Jupiter Devouring His Son. Any demon below the Ars Goetia that gazes upon it are stricken with an intense feeling of existential dread, as if they are getting a vision of their truest, final death. The members of the Ars Goetia themselves feel an intense, primal unease that stays with them for months on end just from looking at it. By contrast, the Sins, Lilith, and Charlie look at it as little more than a kitschy family photo that holds a special place in their hearts despite no one else getting the appeal.

I’m just going to say it, Ozzy probably has more than a few kids running around… and I’m not entirely convinced Fizz is aware of the fact.

I think I remember you suggesting that Mammon had a hand in Charlie’s education, and I think that could be built upon by the other Sins similarly aiding in it or otherwise imparting wisdom to her while she was growing up… with mixed results of effectiveness (Bee and Ozzy didn’t do a great job teaching her get what she wants through charisma alone).

Related to the above point, Mammon is an undisputed mathematic and analytical genius. Like, with a cursory glance at a jar full of jellybeans, he can tell the exact amount in the jar and the jar’s total volume. I also like the idea of Mam’s approach to calculating being pretty old school, with him being able to do the work of a whole team of mathematicians with little else but an abacus and a notepad.

A persisting thought regarding the Sins true demon forms I’ve had is that what we see in canon is only a “game face” the put on when sufficiently pissed off. My idea is that the Sins True Demon forms sees them turning into mind breaking eldritch abominations that cost them the use of their higher mental faculties. My ideas for each one include: Lucifer=a biblically accurate Angel that exudes blinding light, Satan=a dragon made of volcanic rock, Bee=a huge queen be with sparse fox features, Mammon=a massive, electrified spider made of gold that has elements of Moana’s Tamatoa and Yo-Kai Watch 3’s The Goldfather, Asmodeus=a three headed beast wreathed in flames, Leviathan=a titanic, rotting eel/whale fall that can encircle the Pride Ring, Belphagor=takes a page out of Akira’s Tetsuo’s book. Before you ask, yes, I was watching anime when I came up with this headcanon.

On a more lighthearted note, I like to think each Sin has an affectionate nickname for Charlie. The only ones I have in mind are Mammon (Little Dingo), Belphagor (My Favorite Patient), Satan (Pardner), and Bee (Sweetie).

This is a lot more words than I thought it would be, but I hope you like it.

Sorry for the slightly delayed response, I've been all over the places in the last few days

I really like these ideas, but especially their contrast. One has a very personal view on it and is keeping things with a set intention, the other is hoarding from an intuition and with a general sentimental attachment.

Realistically, I think Ozzie would personally take the most offense at Stolas' actions, I definitely spends some time focusing on making sure Stolas is never in a position of authority over someone again. But also, yes, I do feel they would occasionally use it to annoy him.

Accurate

Oooo. Yeah, the idea of Bel suddenly speaking is scary because she either thinks the thing is very important, or, the worse alternative, it's somehow managed to provoke and intense emotional state from her.

Baphomet having multiple candles on his head is a really interesting visual. This gave me the idea of his horns having a similar texture to the candle wax, this might extend to candleheads in general, but it's more pronounced with Baph.

I actually have a completely different take on this topic. Basically, the rings are laid out in the order of the Sins' power levels (which have quite a variance between them) at the time of Hell's formation. Bel got the bottom ring on the grounds she didn't want to participate in the activity that was used to scale them. Since then, the differing values of society lead to different sins proliferating differently. Ozzie is now the weakest, then Levi, Bel, Bee, Mammon, Satan, Luci. I'm still working out the kinks on Levi's whole deal on this front, but that's for another time.

I would consider Satan the second oldest and Bee the youngest, and Mam and Levi switched, but other than that, I agree.

My take on this is Levi's skin being partly translucent, also works with his design being highly metaphorical of a scummy reviewer/publisher, in that one can literally see through him if they squint a little.

I also share the view that Baphomet wasn't a member of the Sins troupe, now that think about it, by our logic, Baph would be one of, if not the first non-sin goetic demon.

I love this. Luci always complain about inaccuracies of human portrayals of his family. Somewhat related to this, Lucifer, Satan and Beelzebub despise being conflated. The other Sins sometimes mess with them by doing exactly that.

Can't remember where I first saw it, but I remember coming across the idea of Ozzie being barren as a sort of ironic punishment upon his fall. As in some contexts, lust is viewed as anything sexual outside the context of procreation....... ..... That or you could do the Quagmire joke of him realizing too late that someone is one of his bastard children.

Again, nothing to add, just an idea I agree with.

YESSS. I live for the idea of Mammon "secretly" being a genius, I put secretly in air quotes because it's common knowledge, it's just a bit hard to take seriously when you're around him, because of his eccentricities, but that exactly what he wants.

I like your ideas, but I have some concepts of my own on the Sin "truest" forms which I'm saving for another occasion.

I love these!!!!!!! I'll add on Asmodeus calling her Char-Char, to go with his fire motif.

Some ideas for Merch

For the uninitiated, @thatguywhodoesstuff made a Golden Goose fankid named Merch and We've been exchanging some ideas about him recently, so I decided to dump a bunch of my own concepts for him here, or rather, under the cut

Mammon's is immensely excited and nervous about the prospect of having a biological child prior to Merch hatching. During this time the other Sins, mainly Lucifer and Beelzebub, do their best to help him get through his rough patches.

When Merch does hatch, Mam gives Glitz and Glam a 2 year long roadmap of events to attend since he won't be there to directly manage their act with a new baby in the house. He also makes it very clear what will happen to them should they stray from it in an significant way.

As a kid, Merch wears a lot of baggy clothes and often takes Via's old stuff or at least he would if he liked the colors more).

When Merch starts manifesting his many powers, Mammon devotes extra time to teaching him to control them and even how to strengthen them should the need arise.

When Merch is a tween, he starts being a bit sassy towards his family, which is nothing special, but when he starts learning about Stella's background with her ex husband, he lightens up on it a little, especially towards Stella. There's an unspoken agreement in the rest of the family that they know why he calmed down but none of them point it out.

You might think Merch's fondness of annoying him and Fizz would make Ozzie stop trying to be his favorite uncle, but it's quite the opposite. Asmodeus thinks his nephew is just generally mischievous and thinks that if he plays it off like Merch's pranks don't get to him, he might be seen as the "cool uncle". Merch finds these misguided efforts hilarious.

Merch doesn't see himself as ever seeking out a relationship and considers himself fully content with just the family he has now and his businesses. Mammon sees a lot of his younger self in this behavior and lightly jokes about it with his son.

While it's very rare for Merch to get outright angry, it's not too rare to see him at this scariest, which is actually when he's extremely excited for something, usually the launch or opening of a project. He goes into full cackling super villain mode and takes the moment to relish his own business acumen.

Somewhat adjacent, he has Batman levels of contingency plans for every toy line he owns. In addition to having several episode of a tie-in cartoon made before they even hit stores, he will have paid some desperate artists peanuts to make a pilot for a spinoff series for each main cast member in case they become popular enough to sustain their own line. He convinces them to do this by promising that the animators will also profit from this one character inevitably becoming a fan favorite, he, of course, keeps every team he has working on these "preparations" unaware of the others. And that's all just one example.

When Merch is frustrated, electricity of several colors emanates from his swept back crest/hair, in a way similar to a plasma ball

This last one is more of a premise for something else, but Merch fits very well into it. He sets up a domain in preparation for his attempt to convince uncle Fizz to return to performing, and when he refuses, turns it into a Fizz trolling forum. One frequent patron of the forum seems to take to it oddly well, and this is not lost on Merch.

I love this so much, it contrasts their personalities and social circles in a way that also makes sense as to why they're so good together!!!

Funny I find this the exact day I start planning bigger Golden Goose stuff. I'm flattered to see you using my Camio and Furfur headcanons again.

Golden Goose Date Aftermath

Stella: Mammon kissed me!

Camio: Oh my stars! Oh my stars! Oh my stars!

Stella: It was unbelievable!

Camio: Oh my stars! Oh my stars! Oh my stars!

Furfur: Okay, we want to hear everything. Camio, get the wine and unplug the phone. Stella, does this end well or do we need tissues?

Stella: Oh, it ended very well~

Camio: (Walks back into the room, crude oil in hand) Don’t start without me! Do not start without me!

Furfur: Okay, alright let’s hear about the kiss. Was it a soft brush against your lips or was it like a, you know, “I have you now” kind of thing.

Stella: Well, at first it was really intense, you know? And then, oh fuck, and then we just sort of sunk into it.

Camio: Ohh… So, okay, was he holding you? Or was his hands on your back?

Stella: (Smiles fondly) First they were on my waist and then they slid up and then they were in my feathers.

Camio & Furfur: Ohhh.

-Meanwhile-

Mammon: And, uh, then I kissed her

Lucifer: (Thinks on it) Tongue?

Mammon: Yeah.

Bee: Cool.

This is kinda random, but I was wondering if you had any theories, ideas, or headcanons regarding Lilith.

Personally, I have two:

Lilith, while far more reserved and well mannered, actually has a lot of overlapping personality traits and mannerisms with Adam. This is a major part of why their relationship fell threw, as they were to similar to properly get along and the differences they do have just exasperated the fact further. Naturally, pointing their obvious similarities out is a good way to incur the wrath of the King and Queen of Hell.

I keep coming back to the idea that Lilith, for some reason or another, never gelled well with the Sins. Sure, they respect her and are cordial with the Queen, but they just never clicked on a personal level with her like they did with Lucifer.

I'm gonna be honest, I haven't actually thought much about Lilith, the big one I do have is that while Lucifer represents pride in the sense of self-fulfillment, Lilith's pride is more traditionally negative, a sense of entitlement and callousness.

In that sense, she's a lot more like Adam than most (especially Luci) would like to admit, which I completely agree with you on.

I think that, moreso than anyone else, Lilith is proud of the upset she caused by bringing about the fall and lowkey considers the Sins "posers" she'd never say this, but she still thinks it.