The Difference With The Disorders Of ASPD, Psychopathy And NPD Versus The 150-something Other Disorders

The difference with the disorders of ASPD, psychopathy and NPD versus the 150-something other disorders in the DSM is that they function completely differently because they are PERSONALITY disorders and not regular disorders.

Personality disorders cause dysfunction with opinions, feelings, observations, empathy, perceptions and relationships. The way they see every event, instance, and conversation is coming from a distorted perception. They can be aware of this distorted perception but one of the main symptoms of these disorders is a lack of self-awareness and always believing one is right and never wrong, which is very common with cluster b disorders. Self-awareness is also a spectrum, not black and white as many people get wrong. They're not just "different" with their opinions and perceptions (everybody has different feelings and opinions) but they're maladaptive and unhealthy.

ASPD and NPD major/common symptoms from research (not just taking from the DSM I've been researching them for a decade now): revenge-prone (often from distorted perceptions but can certainly be from a non-distorted perception), entitlement issues, lack of empathy toward others, manipulation, deception, exploitation/supply-seeking, victim-complex and can't see fault in ones own behaviors chronically so- meaning they see themselves as perfect and don't take accountability for any little mistakes or wrongs, love-bombing then devaluing cycles which causes Stockholm syndrome, projection, possessiveness in relationships, extreme jealousy and envy issues in relationships or with peers, poor and abusive relationships.

While something like ADHD has issues with attention, focus staying on one task that isn't scary or bad, just distressing for the disordered individual. Anxiety disorders have symptoms like overthinking, feeling jittery or on edge, feeling distressed about the future, etc. Other disorders have issues with normal things that only distress the individual suffering from said disorder, they're not dangerous.

However, people with ASPD and NPD have symptoms that make them dangerous to themselves AND others, causing distress to both themselves AND others.

Yes, people with ASPD and NPD are certainly distressed as well from the consequences of their actions and lack of ability to love another person, thus making relationships unfulfilling. But they bring distress to people around them as well and just as much if not worse.

ASPD, psychopathy and narcissists are vindictive as a PERSONALITY trait and if you do your research properly - revenge as a maladaptive personality trait is a hallmark of ASPD and psychopathy, not just a one time thing like a 17 year old girl getting revenge with her best friend on her cheating partner (teenagers are impulsive and dumb they'd be more prone to this behavior than adults). But with personality disorders it is a pattern of behavior. And their revenge-seeking is an epidemic in the world of psychological abuse survivors because that's often what psychological abuse survivors complain of is the cluster-b persons vindictive behavior towards them for unrighteous reasons, that the cluster b thinks is righteous but thats the distortions and delusions they have. And part of that maladaptive trait is along with the lack of emotional (sometimes cognitive) empathy they don't have that line in the sand they won't cross, meaning they don't have limits on how far they're willing to hurt people making them inherently wrong for their behaviors.

Neuroscientists psychopathy and ASPD:

Dr Keel

Dr. Raine

Dr. Robert Hare

Dr Kevin Dutton

Books:

Handbook of psychopathy

Hervey Cleckley's original 1940's checklist that Hare basically admitted the PCL-R is based off of.

Npd:

Dr kernberg

Dr. W. Keith Campbell

Dr. Kraig malkin

Dr. James Masterson

Dr Steve reed

Dr Elinor Greenberg

Dr. Marie-France Hirigoyen, a psychoanalyst

There is a lot of what you’ve said that I agree with. ASPD and NPD do indeed cause symptoms distressing to themselves and others. People with ASPD and NPD can act harmfully. Jealousy does play a large role in NPD (I’m not so sure in ASPD since this is a disorder largely based off apathy).

I have NPD and I’m acutely aware of the distortions in my world view. I know that that’s unusual. I’ve had years of therapy and several times of radical acceptance to get to this point. Egotypicals still perceive things in ways that surprise me from time to time but generally I have a lot of self awareness and I’m very interested in psychology and the concept of society.

I have very low emotional empathy (although my cognitive empathy works very well if I have the energy) and yet I disagree with you saying that cluster b’s “don’t have limits on how far they’re willing to hurt people making them inherently wrong for their behaviours”. There are so many things wrong with that statement.

The first is the not having “limits”. I have limits. Perhaps they’re implemented more by rational thought than emotional (like others) but they’re still there. I have a set of morals that I stick steadfast to and I’ve been told by many people that I am a person who holds my values and morals close and guards them tightly.

The second is “willing to hurt people”. This might come as a shock but that’s not a specific cluster b trait. Anyone and everyone are willing to hurt people. Neurotypicals do it all the time. Neurodivergents do it all the time. Everyone does it all the time. For example, you are willing to hurt a group of people with personality disorders by sending an ask that deliberately frames them in a negative way. A simpler example is asking what you would do for your loved ones. Would you steal, fight, manipulate, break the law? All of those classify as “willing to hurt people”.

My third issue is that you say cluster b’s are “inherently wrong for their behaviours”. What behaviours? Who’s wrong?

If I take that as I assume it was meant to be intended, what you meant was “cluster b folk are wrong and will always be wrong in their behaviours because of the previously mentioned reasons”. I just disproved the previously mentioned reasons so that point is moot. You’ve just taken a few traits of a disorder, spun a negative portrayal on them and decided that that means cluster b people as a whole are completely untrustworthy and unforgivable in every aspect.

If I was to take a different view on the statement, I could interpret the meaning as “people who willfully do harm are inherently irredeemable”. That’s a more solid point but one I would dispute anyway. That ends up tipping more into the moral quandary of questions such as “would you steal bread for your starving family”. I would say that no one is inherently irredeemable. Certain acts may be unforgivable but people themselves are not irredeemable.

People who willfully do harm with malicious intent over and over again (the ones “without limits”) are indeed not good people. However, assuming that the only people who do that or the only people capable of doing it are cluster b is not a good view nor a correct one.

Anyone can be a bad person. Anyone can do bad things.

Another thing you mentioned is vindictiveness. I wouldn’t phrase it like that. For all intents and purposes it’s very similar but it’s much easier to understand is describing it as the fight response. Cluster b folk are more inclined to the fight response. When they perceive threat, they lash out, which can cause harm to themselves and others. It’s something a lot of people do however cluster b’s take it to an extreme.

It’s not a petty grudge and it’s not a relentless pursuing of someone. It’s a matter of hurt and survival instincts.

There’s been a lot of focus on the damage disorders do to others and far less on the damage it causes the person themself. And for those who are trying to cope better and hurt less it’s much harder for them as it becomes easier for people around them.

At the end of the day, you have sent what’s effectively a list of “proof” that cluster b’s are inherently harmful and that’s that (although you completely failed to mention BPD and HPD).

I want to prove that you’re wrong. No one is inherently harmful. No one is beyond hope of at least trying for better. ASPD and NPD (and BPD and HPD) don’t cause people to be awful people. They make mistakes, they mess up and they try to heal just like everyone else.

I can acknowledge how my actions hurt people and work on them and be a good person. Anyone can. I can take accountability for hurting someone even if I don’t accept I was wrong.

Personality disorders are morally neutral and it might be harder for me but I can create healthy, caring relationships.

If you won’t accept the idea that we can then that’s not our problem. That’s something I sincerely hope you educate yourself on and get over.