Sysconversation - Tumblr Posts

Lying to keep your system safe.

I've lied to multiple agencies stating we have OSDD rather than DID.

Our local support agents, especially financial ones, tend to label DID as clinically insane and unsafe; we say we have DID and people often make up their minds based on inaccurate and outdated stereotypes. We don't waste our breath advocating for ourselves when we will only meet someone once or twice and opinion is already set in stone based on a three letter acronym.

Our psychologist encourages us to do so. He's written letters on my behalf with the same set of information/symptoms/reccomendations, but saying OSDD & PTSD rather than DID & PTSD. The slight seperation in social perception between 'this person has multiple personalities' and 'this person has periods of disassociation and these other symptoms' is often enough to prevent stigma filled responses.

Other situations where lying or changing details may be wise

If a stranger is being overly pushy regarding your system information especially if they are targeting vulnerable alters.

Online - often avoiding posting full alter counts or details that may trigger others (positive or negative) to front is wise, especially on public forums like Reddit and Tumblr

As many of you know, we use psyudeonums to avoid any links being drawn between our online presence and our private life. Singlets use psyudeonums, as can systems/individual alters.

Stating system origin and syscourse stances can, and unfortunately often, leads to harassment and unfair treatment from all sides of the conversation. Sometimes it's safer not to state it.

If someone is making you uncomfortable with questions; you are well within your right to block them. Minors especially, if your gut says no, listen.

You don't owe the world your system's information, and omitting the truth can be the safest way to keep that private. Hell, we can count on a hand how many people know we are a system in our personal life.- let alone anything more detailed.

In an ideal world, no system would have to do that.

We aren't in an ideal world.

So I leave you with this: sometimes it's okay to lie or omit the truth to keep your system safe. Especially in places where stigma runs rampant or you don't know who you're speaking with very well. Just, do me a solid and try not to lie to your psychs, 'kay?

Sending love and hugs,

System dad, Kyle 💜

We've been helped by learning of different types of switches in the traumagenic/disordered community.

In the endogenic communities that we were in (more specifically, the parogenic/tulpamancy ones), the guides on switching almost always went like this: "you detach from your body, and you let your headmate control it while you stand there in the background. Over time, you'll be able to impose yourself into the headspace while detaching yourself from outside stimuli".

Well... This never happened. For us, at least. What *did* happen when we followed the guide was this: one of us would "detach" from the body, while another would "attach". Sure, so far so good, but the consciousness didn't follow the previous fronter. Instead, it stayed with the new, current one. We switched non-possessively. Only then, we didn't know that it was a thing.

Everybody described their switches as "taking a nap" or "just watching as my headmate lives their life" and we were so jealous of that. Sure, we could *possess* the body (where you basically feel your headmate move your body without your input as you're fronting) but never quite switch *properly*. And it hurt.

Our brain is weird in the sense that headmate creation is very quick if we put our mind to it. Sure, a headmate being more defined and independent will take time, but we would communicate with each other pretty much from day one. In the community, the creation process can sometimes take months with some people. So, we figured that we didn't do this *properly* and only "tricked" ourselves somehow. We figured we weren't *as real* as those systems *who can* switch the right way. After all, we didn't take that long to develop, so maybe we weren't developed at all and it's just us "roleplaying"? We have a somewhat vivid imagination, after all.

It was during a time where we first came out to our Original's friend that I looked more into it. My one other headmate felt pretty distinct while fronting, while I didn't.

There's this term called "autopilot" in our communities where you suddenly start acting as your most prevalent fronter, in an uncharacteristic way to how you usually act, while you're standing there, confused. Mind you, you still have control over yourself and your body but it's a little weird. You know how you're acting is "out of character" for you but you still do it. It usually happens in some unexpected or nervous situations. Well, I had trouble using my own pronouns and saying my name and, in general, the "autopilot" didn't help. It felt pretty violating, and confusing too. I thought "what if I'm not real? What if I'm just the OG, faking all of this? Just roleplaying?".

"Well, when doubts come, just go look at traumagenic spaces, and see how the unquestionably *real* systems experience things" - that was my thinking process, anyway. Traumagenic systems are recognized as real by the medical community, and they experience things that can't be faked, like amnesia, for example. So, doing this was my go-to. They were the ones that *couldn't* be fake, while I could be.

And there, looking through the DID and OSDD subreddits, I found it - non-possesive switching. We weren't alone - others, even traumagenic systems - experienced the same thing. Heck, apparently it's the most common form of switching?? Why haven't we heard of it, anywhere??

Man, this was so validating and relieving. And I know that my thinking may have been a little wrong - after all, all systems are valid, and putting traumagenic systems in my mind on a pedestal like this wasn't the good way of looking at these things. But, in that moment, I'm glad that I found the words for my experience - especially from systems who weren't the same as me in terms of origin; systems, who weren't even in my communities, and therefore experienced these things independently.

So, yeah! This is my story of how reddit, of all things, made us feel more valid as an endogenic system, lol. I think, in general, that our communities have a lot of things to share with each other, so I'm glad that plural spaces exist. Hope this wasn't a drag to read. Peace! ✌🏻

Hello sysconversation! I'm a massive fan of this tag being coined, I think there's a lot of room for some really great discussion here, so I'm gonna try to kickstart a conversation myself!

I'm a traumagenic DID system. I experience a lot of denial. But you know what really really helps me? The existence of endo systems. No I'm not kidding.

Because I can say oh I must be faking this disorder. It must not be real. But I also believe that intentional systems are 100% real and that they exist, so... even if I don't have DID, I'm still creating my system right now. I'm real. My parts are real. No matter what disorders we do or don't have.

If you're traumagenic you ever been helped in some way by endo systems and/or their resources? If you're endogenic, have you ever been helped in some ways by traumagenic systems and/or their resources? We talk all the time about how we're different, I think it'd be great to have a chat about how we can be alike and how the intersection of our communities can help each other!

It’s weird to see others view fakeclaimers so harshly while simultaneously fakeclaiming systems whose plurality does not stem from trauma :/

Sincerely, a DID system whose cultural practices involve spiritual plurality. We exist hi hello.

To start, wow, just with like 3 real post without our intro and we already have our first attack-like thing, without counting the comment of and endo who already blocked us lmao, I feel important

Now, I could easily just ignore your comment cause you just want to tell me that I don't consider possibilities, I'm closed mind, I'm hypocrite, or something like that, don't you? And I get it, no one it's perfect and all that stuff that I know everyone have hear in their lives so I don't get to any point telling you all that

Ok so, if you read my two post carefully and with reading comprehension, thing that you didn't for what I see, you will see that I'm exclusively talking about the OSDDID community, the disordered plural community, I'm not talking about the system and plural community as a whole, thing that you're claiming I did, and I didn't. In any of my 3 posts and, more specifically, in the posts you're talking about I fakeclaimed other things like you say

And if you're gonna come at me and tell me "You're anti-endo, that's why you're fakeclaiming", well you're wrong, I'm not going to random endos and telling them they're fake, the exact definition of fakeclaiming, I'm not even interacting with endos, we say we're anti-endo so endos would leave us fucking alone cause we don't want them to interact with us

Our opinion about non-traumagenic plurality is so fucking extended and complex that we had to make another stand besides pro/neu/anti because it didn't even fit in one of those perspectives (Although for the instance of this three we use anti-endo cause it fits better regarding our opinion with most of the endos and get them away form us), but this isn't about that (Cause if you're even interested in that, you can wait till we do that post) this is about you that want to call us out because of that

Nowhere I was talking about endo fakeclaiming, just disordered fakeclaiming because our blog is about that, that's why we have a "Endo-DNI" in our description, cause we don't like them to interact with us, because many of them come to attack, harass, fakeclaim and many things to OSDDID and we don't want that

Like, if you even care that much about being "fakeclaimed by us" (thing that we didn't and we won't do, but probably you'll say we did) you would have blocked us like we say in the post, "fakeclaimers just want to mock you so ignore them and block them", but you didn't, instead you came here to give this complain about fakeclaiming and honestly made me laugh lmao

I don't know if you claim being a DID system because of cultural spiritual plurality, cause if that's the case you're right, I'll fakeclaim you, but if you're a DID system that apart of that is in spiritual cultural plurality I won't fakeclaim you, cause I know that's a thing and exists, so idk why you say "We exist hi hello" cause I know, I have been knowing before entering the OSDDID community, so I don't get the point of that final comment xD

Things like this make our point more valid, randoms in internet don't know about you, they're the first ones to make assumptions about you and attack/call you out for those, maybe this example is not in a fakeclaiming way as I explained in the post, but it's a good example of people mocking you for their assumptions and you have to react/respond mature enough, maybe for some people this isn't a mature respond but for us it is

So yeah, to conclude this I think is fair to say I don't care if randoms come to say things like this in our blog, cause they can't read correctly, and if you want to make assumptions is a you problem, but don't tell your assumptions so convinced like they're the truth cause you'll only embarrass yourself, and that's not funny, isn't it?

If you didn't block me and saw this post anon, you could send us another anon question in respond, or comment here if you want, and will read it, idk if we'll make a public answer but yeah

Let this post get as a future base to ignore and laugh about comments like this, and if you want to ask us or comment something in this post even if you're not anon do it freely, we assure you we'll read it... So for now, bye :)

Not that last anon, but there are endogenic systems in the OSDDID community. There are systems who had trauma after their system already formed which can cause a dissociative disorder to develop. There's also like what I think that anon's case is, there are DID systems with endogenic headmates who are spiritual, thoughtforms, etc.

This especially goes for OSDD, which isn't even inherently a system disorder. OSDD is just a catchall in the DSM-V for disorders that don't fit DID, Dissociative Amnesia, or DPDR.

What you are doing is closer to gatekeeping in that sense. Even if you think their experiences are real, you are excluding systems from dissociative resources for something as arbitrary as origin that may not even impact how the system is now if the later trauma was severe enough.

This is also where a lot of fakeclaiming that targets OSDDID systems comes from. It starts with "we don't want endos in our community" then spirals into "this is how you spot an endo". This is how fictives started to be viewed as a faking red flag (the term "fictive" came from endogenic systems), too many nonhumans make you fake (endogenic systems and otherkin have a long lasting overlap), as well as knowing too much about your system (endogenic systems don't usually have dissociative barriers unless something happened later). Even if you aren't fakeclaiming explicitly, encouraging an origin binary and excluding endogenic systems does contribute to the problem that loops around and effects all systems.

Also there are a few cases where you can win a debate with a fakeclaimer. Some people are genuinely misinformed, and if you have the energy, ability, and sources, it can be worth to send a message to try.

Ok so, I know I already said and established that I wouldn't be answering anon things regarding this topic, but I need to clarify something cause, again, you didn't read correctly or you didn't get the point of our post/reply, so I'm gonna explain in detail every point your talking about in this message and also some extra things hoping that people would stop making themselves incorrect ideas about us and maybe do a purification regarding followers (Cause damn, we are getting a big hate even though we aren't famous or shit like that)

So please, if you really want to hate us and really want to know our stand read this whole and then comment or reblog-respond, because if you don't read it whole we're just gonna block you and don't count your opinion

First paragraph topic: Endos in the OSDDID community

I didn't talk about that topic, but you're bringing it out so I will now, and I hope that you and other people can understand my point in this. I know there are endos in the OSDDID community, I know there are cases in which someone has a dissociative identity disorder and also have plurality in some other way, if that's what you're trying to explain me well... You didn't explain anything that I didn't know already, with the last anon I said if their case is they having DID and also having a cultural-spiritual base plurality I know they exist and I don't fakeclaim them because they have OSDDID, so why would I fakeclaim them?

The specific point that I have it's the way they talk and/or present those parts that aren't because of the disorder, but I'm fakeclaiming those parts? Of course not, cause I know they're a different presenting way of plurality that have nothing to do with the disordered parts, and I won't talk about them because our speciality is disordered dissociated parts, not plural parts in general, also cause I don't know almost anything about the topic and, most importantly, don't know last anon case

So with this I hope I clarified this point, if not, tell me and I will explain (Like with every point, so this state applies to all)

Second paragraph: OSDD not being an inherently a system disorder

With this I have a lot to unpack cause we entered in our hyperfix and knowledge field. For this part I'm gonna do multiple paragraphs cause there's a lot to say and explain

First of all OSDD is a disorder, that's why it is in the DSM-5, I'm not sure if you claimed that OSDD is not a disorder or just is not a system disorder, so I clarify this just to make sure

Now, let's see what the DSM says about OSDD, ok?

The DSM V says:

The DSM V TR says:

Besides that info it's good to know that OSDD can be classified in various subtypes, 4 to be exact, and why it's important to clarify the 4 subtypes? Cause only one of this subtypes is capable of being a plural disorder this being OSDD-1 (This subtypes includes from OSDD-1a to OSDD-1d)

So if you're gonna say that OSDD isn't inherently a system disorder you're half correct, because it depends in the subtype you're seeing, if you're talking about OSDD-1 when it is, but if you're talking about OSDD as a whole and not seeing the subtypes, well you're right, and in this case when I talk about OSDDID community I talk only about OSDD-1, it's just that it's better and shorter to just say "OSDDID community" rather than "OSDD-1, P-DID and DID community" don't you think?

And for the OSDD being "just a catchall" for the other dissociative disorders... Well you're not completely right and let me explain. The OSDD stand for "Other Specified Dissociative Disorder", just in the name says it's for specifying other thing because it doesn't enter to the other criterias, and yes, that make OSDD a comodin like diagnosis, but if you read below that you'll find the UDD or "Unspecified Dissociative Disorder" and this diagnosis puts more info about dissociative disorders that doesn't fit in the other criteria including OSDD so even though OSDD can count as a catchall UDD too, and you're not talking about it

So with this information I hope I got clarified this point

Third paragraph: Gatekeeping and excluding

First I'm gonna address the gatekeeping thing.

If you're saying I'm gatekeeping by saying "endos DNI", then I am, because that's one of our boundaries, getting mad for someone else boundaries because it doesn't align with you it's horrible in my opinion.

If you're saying that I'm gatekeeping for excluding endos when I talk about systems and plurality in my blog, then I am, because this is a disordered aligned blog and I'm not gonna be talking about endos, and because a lot of endos want to make everything about themselves I don't want them to interact.

If you're saying I'm gatekeeping because I'm not talking about endos because I don't want, then I am.

If you're saying I'm gatekeeping because I exclude endos that are also disordered well you're wrong, I'm not doing that, if they want they can interact ONLY if they keep comments about them being endos away from our blog, I'm not saying they have to stop being endos cause they have a disorder, just that comments and things about being endo don't put them in our blog, outside our blog talk all you want about being endo cause we don't fucking care

It's just our preference, our boundarie, I don't get why people get mad about it when I'm not even attacking endos, damn we're not even anti-endo, we said it the last post and we'll repeat it. I hope this explains it because, from what I understand we're not gatekeeping nothing, we're just setting boundaries, and if you're mad for that is a you problem, not ours, but if we're gatekkeping please come and explain in detail how

Now about the exluding allegations... Simply we're not ???

I'm not excluding anyone from dissociative resources, I don't know were do you take that conclution, because from our words don't. We can't decide and stop every random from the internet and exclude them, that's imposible, we're not in position to exclude anyone

Again, if you have disordered plurality we don't care if you also have another kind of plurality, if you have disordered plurality and/or you experience maladaptive dissociation go ahead and use the resourses, after all the resourses are for people who strugle with complex dissociative disorders

But if you're not disorder nor experience maladaptive dissociation then why would you want to use resourses for people with CDD??? (No, I'm not counting neither Simply Plural nor Plural Kit in the dissociation resources because, one, their aren't resources just tools, and two, the creators said that SP and PK can be used for any reason that you please including disordered plurality)

If someone has a disordered plurality, a trauma disorder or a complex dissociative disorder then go ahed and use that resources, because the resourses are for you, we don't care if apart from that you have another type of plurality and if you do well good for you, you're still able to use that resources because one, I can't literally stop you, and two, the resources are for you

Fourth paragraph: Fakeclaiming (A binary excluding way and disordered targeting)

This is the most long paragraph you put so I'm gonna talk part by part just to make sure you don't miss any point at all

I don't understand what you mean by "This is also where a lot of fakeclaiming that targets OSDDID systems comes from", but if I'm getting it correctly you said that the exclusion and gatekeeping that I'm doing (Again, I'm not, but you're assuming and claiming I am) encourages the fakeclaimin towards OSDDID systems which in my opinion sounds dumb and let me explain why

Fakeclaiming is not a term that the plural community invented, fakeclaiming has been existing for years before that, but the use of the word was popularized by the plural community. Fakeclaiming disorders have been happening way back before the internet even existed, now a days fakeclaming has been evolving and having new stupid criteria to fakeclaim

Endos fakeclaiming, disordereds fakeclaiming, singlets fakeclaim, everyone fakeclaims, actual plural fakeclaming is mainly towards OSDDID systems and yes, some things of the fakeclaimings is because endo fakeclaiming, but the fakeclaiming to OSDDID has been existing way before the name change to DID/OSDD, the fakeclaiming criteria just evolved and changed

So yeah, for me saying that the fakeclaiming or at least a lot of fakeclaiming towards OSDDID systems come from endo exclusion seems dumb, but everyone has different ways of viewing this and I respect that, I'm just stating my opinion and view of things

Now, you can't say all OSDDID systems act the way you say, first saying that they don't want endos in the community and then making guides to spot endos, because if you're gonna generalize I'm gonna do it to with endos too. We don't do guides to spot endos because that obsessive, wrong and kinda sickly, we just don't care at all about that, endos sometimes say explicitly that they're endos and I believe them so I don't interact with them and sometimes block them, that's all, I don't think that's wrong if it's my prference

It is obvious that I cannot speak for the entire OSDDID community cause we're just some random system online, we're just talking about ourselves in this case. Do you know the amounts of OSDDID system that we have blocked because they're horrible? No, you don't, because you don't know us and our point of view in this topics, in reality we hate almost all the internet OSDDID community (generalizing)

You're explanation of what its seen like signs of faking is correct, and we actually can't say anything for that part, just to clarify that we know singlets that have never encountered the plural community nor plural things in the internet and do that fakeclaiming (we know it because they have done it to us), so no, it's not actually encouraged by the endo fakeclaiming/exclusion like you say

Now about the endo exclusion and binary origin. All that I'm gonna say in this point is about us and our point and stand of all this things, I'm not talking about the whole community, just for us, because to talk about the whole community another post

AGAIN, we're not excluding endos in general, in that case we're excluding all systems besides close friends. Saying that in this blog we don't want endos here is to be safe and prevent fights and things similar to this and other more horrible actions to our person becasue we don't feel comfortable with endos atacking us

In fact if we met endos that are opend minded, respectful, patient and have an attitude that we like we're not gonna exclude them, actually if they want we're more than willing to befriend them, so no, we don't exclude them

It's like neurodivegents prefering not to interact with neurotipicals, they're not excluding them, just they don't feel comfortable around them, but obviously if they found a neurotipical they like they'll can befriend them, we're in a similar position with endos

And in the same manner of exclusion it's the binary origin thing. We only care about origin when talking about our preference and experiences, it's like the cis and trans, it's a binary system about identity, but for some reason that is not offensive and this is?

Like I don't get your point, we're not excluding via origin because we're not doing it at all, pointing out the differences is important to recognize and understand the diversity around systems, and also know it to understand the subcategories and have personal preference, just like us

Again with the allegory, saying that neurotipicals and neurodivergents and different it's ok because even though the two are humans they have some differences and that's ok, and even with neurodivergents are subcategorys and some people may have preference to one or another, but that doesn't make them bad people because it's just a preferencem of course sometimes this can be related to discrimination and things like that, but not always, and when is about discrimination you will be a bad person, but if just for preference it's ok

And now with the last sentence, doing the exclusion (we don't, but you say we do) it's countribuiting to the problem that affects all systems, and here's when I ask how we're countibuting to doing harm to people?

We're not excluding, perpetuating harmful thoughts or points or view to others, we're just setting boundaries bassed in our preference, how we're countributing to harm around systems when we're not atacking no one and we're not doing any harm?, in fact are endos and pro-endos who are atacking us and are trying to make us the bad guy when we're not even mentioning them in a malicious way, damn we're not even a big account or something, we're just starting this blog and people already have us in a blacklist when we did nothing wrong, the only thing we did is have and set boundaries (that people keep breaking just to see cool or for some other reason) and respond attacks and comments against our person just because we don't have the same opinion

If we're gonna talk about problems that affect all systems let's do it, but do it in a right way, not making assumptions about someone and trying to prove some random point when you don't know if the person your talking to is in your side, sometimes remarking things in a condescending way when someone already agrees with you and claiming that they're something that they're not makes the person don't be in your side anymore

I'm not in the plural community as a whole nor in the system community as a whole, I'm not talking or saying things about systems in general, I'm just talking about OSDDID systems and the OSDDID community because for me that's comfortable, because I know about that topic, because that's my comfort zone, and if I'm a bad person and huting others just by having preferences, boundaries and prioritizing me without attacking anyone then I'm a bad person and I do hut people, but we're not and I don't get what's the fixation of people telling me that I'm that villain they're making up with their assumptions

Because if we're gonna talk about hurting others endos have hurt us A LOT way back we had our medical recognition of DID and knew the meaning of "system community", and if that's not a problem that affects all systems because I know that have happend to many OSDDID systems, that and some more horrible thing done by endos to disordered systems then I don't know what it is. But I'm not here to talk about the bad things endos have done because that's not the blog purpouse, because I'm not here to talk about endos, is the people that are making us talk about it and it seems a bit hypocrite to us

For this paragraph I have nothing to add, so again, if I didn't make myself clear or something like that you can tell me and I will clarify it

Last paragraph: Win debates with fakeclaimers

Yes, I'm aware sometimes fakeclaimers are just uninformed people and you can win the debate with them, but many of them just want to mock and attack people, specially within the OSDDID community, that's why I think is best just to block them and don't give them attention, and we made clear in our posts about fakeclaiming that it was our opinion, you don't have to agree with and that's ok

If you want to do a debate with a fakeclaimer go ahead, I respect your patience because I don't have that and you will be helping

We just give our opinion, we just stated our point of view, we don't have to be perfects like no one. And it's not like the post have a big reach, it doesn't even have 50 likes, so it's not like a lot of people is seeing it

Sometimes we do tend to debate with fakeclaimers and uninformed people in general, when we're in the mood and we have the sources and references in hand, we had won various debates because we're informed, but that experience also teached us that most of fakeclaimers don't even care about it so we made a post about that

Extra notes: Some other points not deeply talked about in this post

Ths post already extend so much that we see prudent to just stop it here, even though we have a lot more points to talk about and clarify. We're planning not only to update our intro to be more specific and so we can avoid problems like this in the future, but making some other post talking about various of the topics seen here and a bit more about our points of view

If you want us to clarify some points or things, ask us things or something like that go ahead adn will do it gladly, also, anon of this post we're be gratefull if you say something about this text we did for you

Like a extra note I'm gonna say in short words our stand with endos, we're oct-endo, in other post we're gonna expalin it deeply

That's all, if you read the whole thing thx and see you random people on internet :)